Avian: a lightweight alternative to Java that runs on iOS and Android

Avian: a lightweight alternative to Java that runs on iOS and Android(oss.readytalk.com)

87 points by dkharrat 10 years ago | 28 comments

nickmain 10 years ago |

How does it JIT on iOS given that normal apps cannot write to executable memory ?

One of the core contributors here. The trick is that Avian doesn't do JIT compilation on iOS - instead, we run everything through the "JIT" compiler ahead of time, as we're building the app. This is the only possible technique, outside of interpretation (which Avian can also do, but slowly), and compiling to Javascript to run with JavascriptCore. It's also what I've seen most other VMs do for iOS (including, for instance, the Unity game engine, which used to embed Mono).

jzd 10 years ago | |

Can somebody please shed light on this issue

oscargrouch 10 years ago |

A java jitted VM built from scratch.. i wonder if we have a way to see how it performs, compared to other jits (specially the Android ART)?

By a very crude look at the source, looks very lightweight indeed

> Just-In-Time (JIT) compilation for fast method execution

> Generational, copying garbage collection ensures short pause times and good spatial locality

> Thread-local heaps provide O(1) memory allocation with no synchronization overhead

> Null pointer dereferences are handled via OS signals to avoid unecessary branches

joshuawarner32 10 years ago | |

One of the core contributors here. I don't have any numbers, but I can reasonably guess it'll only beat the most naive JITs (i.e., JITs that only copy predefined templates that implement each instruction). Avian's JIT does no optimizations beyond a simple linear-time register allocator and a very basic instruction selector. Avian can run a simple Hello World somewhat faster than HotSpot, but that's about all. In any real-world scenarios, HotSpot and Dalvik/ART will kick the pants off it.

However, that's not what Avian is designed for. We (ReadyTalk) don't have the resources to compete in that sort of market, as fun as that might be. We designed Avian to run a relatively light-weight client application, so we can deploy the same code across all our platforms. We're not running a game or a server, so we don't care a lot frame rate or requests per second.

lmm 10 years ago | | |

> However, that's not what Avian is designed for. We (ReadyTalk) don't have the resources to compete in that sort of market, as fun as that might be. We designed Avian to run a relatively light-weight client application, so we can deploy the same code across all our platforms. We're not running a game or a server, so we don't care a lot frame rate or requests per second.

I still don't see how it's better than Java in that scenario, which also runs on all platforms?

userbinator 10 years ago | |

Null pointer dereferences are handled via OS signals to avoid unecessary branches

Exceptions like page faults are very slow in modern CPUs in comparison to branches. Branch prediction works really well.

mkesper 10 years ago |

Please change the title to something less misleading: as specified by a contributor below, this does NOT run on Android.

twic 10 years ago |

I don't understand what this is for. Could someone suggest some use cases?

Is the idea that you can write an app in a language which is a subset of Java, then deploy it onto multiple different platforms? Given that you can already do that with actual Java, what's the advantage? Is it just that you can deploy on iOS, where there's no JVM?

sesteel 10 years ago | |

In general, one of the challenges of delivering commercial software is dealing with the various ecosystems of your customers. Customers may have different versions of Java installed or none at all. Avian allows one to bundle everything required to run a Java application into a single executable and simplifies the problem such that many of the unknowns related to delivering the Java application disappear.

Also, keep in mind that Avian predates at least some of the other solutions to this problem. You could use something like https://github.com/libgdx/packr as well.

dingdingdang 10 years ago |

Is it possible for Avian to support the java.awt.Robot class? (http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/awt/Robot.html) Would be superb in terms of cross platform automation use, currently the only other cross OS compatible solutions are to use Lazarus/Free Pascal or full blown Java VM.

joel_dice 10 years ago | |

You can use Avian with the OpenJDK class library to produce a standalone executable, in which case java.awt.Robot should work. ProGuard could help to keep the size down.

It would also be possible to implement java.awt.Robot from scratch and add it to Avian's class library. That would give you a smaller executable but require significant effort and a lot of platform-specific code.

The best choice depends on what aspect(s) of a "full blown Java VM" you're trying to avoid: e.g. size, installation complexity, licensing issues, etc.

bluesilver07 10 years ago |

How does this compare with RoboVM (https://robovm.com/)?

RyanZAG 10 years ago | |

BSD license as opposed to commercial pay-only license key required for building in RoboVM. It's a pretty clear choice for anybody wanting to use this well into the future..

ternaryoperator 10 years ago | |

It runs on Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, in addition to iOS and Android

joel_dice 10 years ago | | |

Technically we don't support running the Avian VM on Android, although it should work with minimal porting. However, we support using the VM with any of three class libraries: Android's, OpenJDK's, or Avian's. So, ironically, you can use Android's class library with Avian on every platform you listed except Android :)

If there's interest in porting Avian on Android, we could do it, but since it already has Dalvik/ART, I'm not sure there's much of a point.

dpratt 10 years ago |

As an interesting aside, Avian has native support for coroutines through stack de/re-hydration. I have yet to use it, but it looks quite interesting.

joel_dice 10 years ago | |

Specifically, it supports native first class continuations, including both call/cc-style and delimited (shift/reset-style), which can form the basis for coroutines, generators, and other fun stuff. It also supports full tail call optimization.

Both of those features work with Java, Clojure, Scala, etc. For example: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/clojure/U4i4nVsYfi8/1GSGgNM8...

More info is available here: http://oss.readytalk.com/avian-web/javadoc-1.2.0/avian/Conti...

latj 10 years ago |

Anyone have any examples? Only documentation is javadoc and the examples links are all 404.

sesteel 10 years ago | |

I've messaged someone I know who works on this project. Here is an example: https://github.com/ReadyTalk/hello-ios

anonymousDan 10 years ago |

Does it support the full jdk?

joel_dice 10 years ago | |

As dkharrat pointed out, you can use the Avian VM with the OpenJDK class library instead of the much more limited default library. However, there's no support for JVMTI, and not everything in the OpenJDK library will work with every combination of platforms and build options.

dkharrat 10 years ago | |

Not entirely sure, but according to its github page[1], you can have it use the OpenJDK classes for a "conventional JVM".

[1] https://github.com/ReadyTalk/avian#building-with-the-openjdk...

rattray 10 years ago |

what are the advantages of this over Kotlin?

mynameisjohn 10 years ago | |

can't tell if troll

JJJollyjim 10 years ago | | |

To be fair, I can't really tell from the website what this is and why I would want it ("doesn't Android already have a JVM?"), and Kotlin could easily be defined as "a lightweight alternative to Java that runs on Android" as well!