Ask HN: Should I be concerned about using company's computer for side projects?

16 points by dmragone 10 years ago | 30 comments

I'm working on a few side projects with the intention of launching them as small businesses that will hopefully generate some cash flow. The long-term plan is to get enough of these (or as few as one doing well enough) that I can bootstrap a small operation, so that I can start my thing without having to take a serious drop in cashflow from quitting my job.

My concern is whether it's safe to work on my company's computer while at home. I work for a San Francisco start-up. Will they claim ownership over the work I've been doing outside of work just because it's on their computer? It doesn't conflict in business area in the least, but I'd rather go buy a separate computer if there's a serious concern about claims of ownership or potential for getting sued.

kafkaesq 10 years ago |

Should you be concerned? Yes, absolutely.

Just don't do it, period. And forget the whole idea, please.

Back a few decades ago, when resources were 1000x as expensive as they are now, one might have entertained the thought of using one's work computer for personal and/or side business projects on the sly (and a great many people did, in fact). Resources at any significant scale, or desktop setups for visualization of any kind (even just high-res images -- forget about video!) were basically unobtainable for regular people. Compilers, IDEs, documentation -- that used to all cost serious money (and shelf space).

But these days? Your laptop (which would blow away anything in existence 20 years ago) costs as much as a moderately expensive car repair. And hosting + computational resources are as cheap as water. Languages are so powerful that your main challenge isn't creating stuff -- it's creating in away that's maintainable for your, and understandable to others.

So aside from the ethical aspects of mooching off one's employer, there's just no upside to it. In fact you might want to ask yourself why you're even thinking of this route -- are you, internally, basically expecting to fail? Do you really think you can't bootstrap yourself through this project, like many thousands of others like you (including many far less skilled) -- in this, the very dawn of the age of ubiquitous, nearly zero-cost computing?

Negative1 10 years ago | |

Funny anecdote; Commander Keen was made this way. Carmack, Romero and Hall would pack up a bunch of the computers from Softdisk and work on the game over the weekend.

Long story short, they did have to make concessions when they were caught but it basically worked out for them (as history has shown).

To echo the previous sentiment; JUST DON'T DO IT.

burritofanatic 10 years ago |

Pied Piper faced a serious threat that nearly ruined their business which stemmed from something like this, though you can't guarantee arbitration, and favorable treatment. Just use your own code/open source, and your own equipment in your own time, off site.

I haven't gotten an update on how their product is doing now though, but hopefully soon.

_RPM 10 years ago | |

You understand that the company you're talking about doesn't exist in real life and is a fictional satire T.V. show, right?

seekingcharlie 10 years ago | | |

Delphiki 10 years ago | |

I hear we'll be getting an update on April 24th.

MalcolmDiggs 10 years ago |

Legal issues aside, I'd think of it this way:

If you walked in to work tomorrow and got fired on the spot ("Give me your laptop and leave the building"), would you be comfortable just handing over your machine, then turning around and walking away? If not, that's a problem. It's a problem for you, and a problem for your employer.

Best to keep things as separate as they can be.

detaro 10 years ago |

Don't use a work computer for it, except if you have clear permission to do so in writing, from someone you are sure is able to grant you that permission. And even then only if you have to.

If money is an issue, grab a refurb thinkpad, or a chromebook, or something else cheap and work on that. If you even once have to talk to a lawyer for an hour to resolve the issue otherwise, that's already the cheaper option.

jimmywanger 10 years ago |

It's the worst of both worlds.

If you don't do well and generate revenue/attention, nothing will happen.

If you do do well, then they might come after you with some lawyers, and at that point you have stuff to lose and are wondering why you spent all this time and effort and didn't spend 2k on a laptop of your own.

jimmywanger 10 years ago | |

Also, if you're working on open source, an outside probability is they might assert some sort of ownership on the open source project that you contributed to, and either force you to rip your pull requests out or sue the project for damages.

skibz 10 years ago |

This would depend on the terms of your employment contract (assuming there is one)

Is asking your employer about this directly not an option?

audleman 10 years ago |

You should be seriously concerned. I couldn't find the article, but I remember reading a story about an IBM developer who did something as little as running a proof of concept of his side project on one of their servers. He eventually created his own company and in the end they sued him and got everything.

Lawyers, IP law, these are dangerous areas and you want to steer clear. In fact if you have written any code on your company computer, delete it and re-write it from scratch once you get your new laptop.

brianwawok 10 years ago |

Have you not seen what happens on Silicon Valley :)

hayleox 10 years ago | |

That show also featured files somehow getting deleted by the remote party as they were being uploaded via FTP, and an enormous porn network apparently having no backups. I wouldn't take things on that show as an accurate description of the technical/legal underpinnings of the world.

brianwawok 10 years ago | | |

hah touche!

But it still seems like a terrible idea.

fgandiya 10 years ago | |

Didn't they get away with it because the contract was illegal to begin with?

ProblemFactory 10 years ago | | |

Most real-world contracts have a clause saying "if any part of this contract is ruled invalid, the rest stays in effect."

RoyTyrell 10 years ago |

I guess you'd want to ask yourself if you can afford lawyers for a legal battle if the company wants to claim partial or total ownership of your project, and you don't want to give it up.

I can't believe someone, in this day and age and where you're located, who wants to start up a software business doesn't own their own computer. That's just weird. You're weird.

Seriously though, it's very foolish to be so cheap.

stuxnet79 10 years ago |

Do you watch the new Silicon Valley TV show by Mike Judge? If not, do it now. In short, STEER CLEAR!! Or otherwise you will get your butt sued bigtime!

dudul 10 years ago |

Yes. If you use company provided resources to create Foo, Foo belongs to the company. Same if you do it during company time, or while in the office.

Plus, depending on your state law, they may own stuff you do on your spare time if you don't have a document listing projects that belong to you.

Edit: I'm not a lawyer, rules depend on state law, you should ask one specialized in your state of residence.

nicholas73 10 years ago |

Theoretically, how would a company know if you don't talk about your project and don't take interviews with TechCrunch? As long as it doesn't blow up into a household name startup, no one will ever know to look?

giltleaf 10 years ago |

Yeah I would definitely not do it. Even my nonprofit (not tech related at all) included language that says they own anything I make on a company computer.

evm9 10 years ago |

If you value your side projects and they aren't "shit no one needs & terrible ideas" then don't work on a company issued machine.

ramon 10 years ago |

they can make copies of your software whenever they want, it's their hardware. They can block specific software from running, etc.

Their hardware, their policies. It's certainly not your rules.

Buy a Notebook!

0942v8653 10 years ago | |

Hmm, does this extend to the Internet connection? Would using a work wifi for your side project mean they can claim to own it? What about public wifi? In order to keep your project safe, do you have to get a cellular connection and VPN into your home network?

bmm6o 10 years ago | | |

It's not explicitly about hardware, software, internet connections or food -- the particular items that you are using are irrelevant. If you are using company resources to produce a thing, they have a claim on the thing produced.

ramon 10 years ago | | |

Sniffing into any type of connection is feasable, expect if it's your own (Mobile Network). But they can still control your notebook how they want, take screenshots, etc. Because the software within a notebook only needs internet connection, the control, policies, etc it's centralized and pushed to the software in your desktop with any internet.

informatimago 10 years ago | | |

If they can prove that the traffic generated concerned that development, certainly.

Better use a good encryption, and be sure the metadata doesn't provide them with that proof.

Just use your own cellular, if you need to exchange personnal data from work!

infinii 10 years ago | |

It's not just "buy a notebook". If you really want to cover all bases, don't even do the personal work in the office on company time...even if you are using your own laptop.

devemeka 10 years ago |

Using company resource for side project sometimes could be violation of the company IP, giving that the company / organization is particular about it.