Mainframes as a lifestyle choice

Mainframes as a lifestyle choice(wozniak.ca)

113 points by k4rtik 9 years ago | 44 comments

You can run IBM old OS/360 and many other mainframe OSes using hercules-390 [1], which emulates old and new mainframe architectures and has an active community [2].

[1] http://www.hercules-390.eu

[2] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bercules-390

snaky 9 years ago |

> It's surprisingly easy to cross the border of native z/OS and the USS border. In fact, there's no border there at all. z/OS is one operating system with two different interfaces. So apart from normal problems and hiccups, you'll probably find that the biggest problem accessing the various services will be getting used to the difference in vocabulary between USS and native z/OS.

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-bordercross...

insulanian 9 years ago |

> Part of the reason I took the job ... because I have a fascination with older computer technology.

I was also thinking about going the mainframe route, also because general impression is that the mainframe developer earns big bucks. However, when I started exploring the job offers I was surprised that salaries were not that high at all.

So why is that impression still around, and do mainframe developers really earn significantly more money than a full stack enterprise web developer?

zhte415 9 years ago | |

Mainframe is possibly the most offshored field there is in enterprise technology. There are masses of roles in India and to a lesser extent China and Phillipines where is offers a stable decent paying career for these countries. That's where the base-line and critical mass of roles are.

krinchan 9 years ago | | |

Furthermore, lately IBM has literally bought Mainframe developers off of other companies. My employer several years ago pink-slipped their entire AS400 work force. Immediately, IBM showed up with job offers for all of them at a severe price cut as contractors. Then, for 5 years, they laid off 25% of them until all that was left were the cheapest, unmotivated code drones that would bill maximum hours and not ask for raises.

I've heard similar stories all over from companies on Mainframe/AS400 platforms. It's totally anecdotal, but at this point it's pretty in character from IBM these days.

coleca 9 years ago | | |

Very true. Because these skills are in high demand, my experience has been that employee turnover in the mainframe sector offshore is extremely high. We had a tremendous problem retaining offshore mainframers through the big BPO companies like Wipro, Cognizant, US Technologies, etc. Go through the effort to train them up, and they would get poached in no time because their skills were in such high demand, and the training cycle starts over again.

insulanian 9 years ago | | |

That explains some things.

snaky 9 years ago | |

It depends on what the role is and many other things, the same as it is in any field. Of course, highschooler in Brazil who recently read a half of 'COBOL for dummies' in two weeks would not earn much more than other who choose 'J2EE for dummies'. Deep knowledge and experience could bring significant profit, but the same is true for almost any other industry - maybe J2EE performance consulting for z/OS with CICS would pay more than J2EE performance consulting for AIX with TXSeries but not too much more.

rbanffy 9 years ago | |

> I was also thinking about going the mainframe route

Me too. Sounds fun. Plus, I liked the 3278 a lot.

digi_owl 9 years ago |

The more i learn about mainframes (and minicomputers) the more i feel that the PC world is basically rediscovering old ideas as ICs become ever more potent.

snaky 9 years ago | |

Not only ICs, the very idea of The Cloud is basically the mainframe as it always was.

dboreham 9 years ago | |

Not necessarily rediscovering, just re-implementing.

dbcurtis 9 years ago | | |

Ha, ha, no.

I worked as a CPU logic designer on several mainframes of different architectures before moving to Sili Valley. The "look what I just invented" arrogance I encountered astounded me. When I said something like: "You know, Seymour Cray invented that around 1959, right?" the cognitive dissonance was more than they could handle -- I was usually ignored. So, no, they aren't re-implementing, they are genuinely re-creating history and being proud of themselves for it.

rdtsc 9 years ago |

Speaking of mainframes, my favorite talk on hacking IBM mainframes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfl4spvM5DI

snaky 9 years ago |

By the way, z/OS is not the only way to run IBM mainframes. There's TPF (Transaction Processing Facility) "because a real operating system is too high level and therefore too slow for real transaction processing needs". Current users of TPF include Sabre, VISA, American Airlines, American Express, HP SHARES (formerly EDS), Holiday Inn, Alitalia, KLM, Amtrak, Marriott International, Travelport, Citibank, Citifinancial, Air Canada, Delta Air Lines, Japan Airlines and many others.

PhasmaFelis 9 years ago |

What exactly is a "mainframe" in a modern sense? I thought it exclusively referred to old-fashioned big iron. Is it a cluster? Or are we actually talking about quarter-century-old monoliths running ancient, indispensable code?

mastax 9 years ago | |

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_mainframe

These are completely disconnected from commodity hardware. They are descendents of System/360, with a completely custom architecture and "mainframe processors" which only run specific types of code (Java, XML, DB2).

Or that's what I gather from wikipedia anyway.

sitharus 9 years ago | | |

sort of. The run z/Architecture CPUs which implement a lot of backwards compatibility.

In the old days you had various modules you connected with dedicated CPUs for certain tasks, you'd pay more for them. These days they have a bunch of CPUs and the amount of money you pay IBM determines what those CPUs can do.

There's no physical difference between the Linux CPU, the DB2 CPU and the Java CPU, they're all the same as the main CPUs. IBM just charge you more for general purpose CPUs.

StudyAnimal 9 years ago | |

It refers basically only to the IBM z/Architecture machines. (I think no one else makes them any more. There were some IBM compatible (heh) Japanese ones recently). You can call a cluster of PCs a supercomputer, but you cant call it a mainframe.(But you can run a cluster, or sysplex, of mainframes. It sounds over the top but it is actually quite common.) They are particularly considered mainframes when they run z/OS and work in batch mode especially running CICS or IMS based applications. As soon as it runs linux, or web services, or more interactive things, the same zSeries machine is slightly less mainframy. (Using USS is less mainframy than using TSO or ISPF btw heh)

winestock 9 years ago | |

Aside from embedded systems, mainframes are the natural state of computers. That is, over time, computers tend to converge on either embedded controllers for appliances, or big racks in back rooms doing big calculations.

http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Eternal_Mainframe.h...

Plug: I wrote the above.

snaky 9 years ago | |

"Mainframe" in a modern sense is the Cloud - especially 'private cloud'.

gaius 9 years ago |

Curious about his point about virtualisation; sure you can't run a VM locally but those mainframe OSs have had excellent support for VMs since the 1960s and are still in many ways far ahead of more mainstream hypervisors.

83457 9 years ago | |

He was talking about local development environment.

gaius 9 years ago | | |

So why not just get himself a few dedicated VMs on the mainframe? Those things can supports thousands at a time...

pella 9 years ago |

And has a Golang Port !!!

"Building Go for Linux on z System"

https://github.com/linux-on-ibm-z/docs/wiki/Building-Go

snaky 9 years ago | |

There's more

> The HostBridge JavaScript Engine (HB.js) is server-side JavaScript for CICS® applications and IBM z Systems™ data assets

> HB.js runs inside CICS and supports:

> CICS terminal-oriented (visual) transactions (Orchestrate CICS terminal-oriented transaction micro flows as single services)

> BMS, non-BMS, 3270, and CA application types

> COMMAREA (non-visual) programs (Orchestrate and aggregate transactions, programs (e.g., COMMAREA), and data into single composite services)

> DB2®, VSAM™, DL/I, Datacom®, and other data assets

> Connectivity via HTTP, LINK/EXCI, Enhanced WebSphere MQ Extended Multi-Region Operation (MRO)

https://www.hostbridge.com/index.php/products/javascript-web...

R_haterade 9 years ago |

Just, why...

oarsinsync 9 years ago | |

> Part of the reason I took the job was the opportunity to get paid to work on compilers, but also because I have a fascination with older computer technology.

It may be worth re-reading the article.

R_haterade 9 years ago | | |

You are right, I shouldn't question this guy's fascination with any tech. Especially if it's something that he can love, and do for good money.

Still, mainframes...

Retra 9 years ago | |

Why what?

Andys 9 years ago |

They're good for drying undies