World Population Growth(ourworldindata.org) |
World Population Growth(ourworldindata.org) |
[1]: http://population.io
Well that is depressing.
I thought it was weird as heck, but when I researched it showed they had 4x for heart issues against the general population in america.
https://stanfordhealthcare.org/stanford-health-now/2015/sout...
"China, India and Africa are (and have been for a long time) the most populous regions in the world"
Actually, according to that data, Africa only overtook Europe in population between 1980 and 1990. I remember when that happened, because I'd always assumed Africa had far more people. They will, but it hasn't been for 'a long time'. It was quite recent really.
Even today it's regions do not rank amongst the most populated regions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_density (with the exception of the Nile delta)
Historically Africa had very little population growth compared to the tiny population that survived the "out-of-africa" exit.
I would speculate: part of the reasoning for this would be the lack of domesticable livestock, and why that would occur in the place where humans had evolved from simple inefficient sapiens.
Increasing population pressure is actually already causing desertification that make it worse.
The later 2100s in these charts now look to add several more billion and growing, almost all in Africa. Or from Africa; migration from poorer and overcrowded countries means Europe will probably be majority African by 2100 and have several hundred million more than shown in these charts also.
The post-2008 revisions of UN projections are quite sobering about the future and sustainability of humanity. We are not on a path to sustainability. We are cratering full speed toward a potential Great Filter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
Cheers, Fritz
http://www.radiolab.org/story/180132-how-do-you-solve-proble...
You mean due to the process discovered by Fritz Haber.
It isn't the case that if he hadn't discovered the process in 1909 that in 2016 the human species would still be without it.
But there many studies that claim carrying capacity is much higher than current population, and that the projected 16 billion simultaneous living humans is within capacity.
It seems like whether we have a soft landing at the end of the oil age could dominate any calculation. The ability of renewables to scale up is only just crept past the starting line of a long, but necessarily urgent race. I'm not very enthusiastic about the odds.
- During World War II, US had more people then Germany, France and UK combined. This certainly enabled deployment of massive armies on many front and huge amount of weapon production.
- Japan's population suddenly started rising and overtook many western countries. Its increased productivity might be the reason why this tiny country felt it can take on the world.
- India and China are odd balls. India had massive population since very early times compared to European countries.
-Somewhere in 1870, US population crossed a threshold and became the most populated western country.
-Population for 2100 AD is estimated at 10 billion.
[1] https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_...
My only complaint is that the graph 5 should have been ordered by the population growth rate because as it is now leave a bit distorted general picture.
But looking forward maybe 800 years, if there are alleles which tend to make people more likely to want and have kids then I would expect the prevalence of those alleles to increase and the birth rate to rise again. When I look around at my social groups most of the people I know enjoy sex but there's a lot of diversity in how much people are interested in having kids. I don't have any basis for saying if that's a heritable trait or not. But if it is heritable then I'd expect people like that to be the majority before all that long and in the long term population growth to become exponential again.
And in the very long speed of light limitations mean that the resources available to humanity can grow cubicly at best so if exponential growth resumes Malthus will be with us again at some point.
Otherwise evolution will always exceed its limits and produce a crash. Malthus explained it all mathematically 200 years ago, even before Darwin documented the mechanisms.
This is demonstrably not true. Look at Japan and western Europe: declining population. Its a function of economic situation (no need for more than 1-3 children) and female reproductive choice. If we give that to the world, the population problem goes away. The mathematics of population dynamics work for animals, roughly, but the assumptions don't hold for humans because of the changes in behavior.
It's pretty well understood that population growth curves are logistical, rather than exponential (e.g., https://www.britannica.com/science/population-growth/images-...)
The appearance of exponential growth is always temporary.
As the population increases, negative feedbacks reduce the population growth rate. Examples of these feedbacks include cost to raise children, reduced dependence on large family for security in old age, etc.
Estimates of the "replacement fertility rate" are about 2.1 per woman in a developed society (higher in less-developed societies). Many first world countries are already below this rate, and without immigration, will have declining populations as their native populations age.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-replacement_fertility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...
Malthus and his disciples have been wrong for 200 years.
Paul Ehrlich in particular, because he used to like giving short-term dates for his predictions, so we could watch them slide by. Then he decided time was different to him than to an "average person".
“How many years do you have to not have the world end” to reach a conclusion that “maybe it didn’t end because that reason was wrong?” -- Steward Brand, former disciple of Ehrlich
I would rather say that the population growth that is only taking place outside of western democracies (with some minor exemptions), is the main reason behind the loss in living quality, as the explosion of the world wide population living below acceptable western standards puts the pressure on the wages all over the globe.
Being it through imported goods made in a country with much lower wage standards, or through stagnating wages of low skilled jobs due to immigration (please note that I just state that somebody new in some society is most of the time in more difficult position and is more willing to accept an offer considered not acceptable for longer time residents).
I understand that many societies value highly a human life but as irony had made the human life less valuable around the globe though this worldview.
That kind of immigration is the only kind available and it isn't going to help anyone support higher standards of living in the short term.
I'm pretty in favour of open borders as an immigrant myself but that statement could do with some supporting evidence.
Imagine a society with 100 people. A working adult can create 50 widgets per year, and there's 15 kids and 5 retirees. The economy produce 80 * 50 = 4000 widgets per year, which gives a per capita income of 40 widgets. You can have whatever tax, welfare, or income redistribution policies you like, but there's only 4000 widgets to go around.
Great. Now let's say 5 new kids are born, the 15 existing kids become adults, 30 adults retire, and the 5 existing retirees die. Bonus: we got 3% better at making widgets, so a working adult makes 51.5 widgets. We now have 100 people, 5 kids, 30 retirees, and 65 working adults. Total widget production = 65 * 51.5 = 3,347.5 widgets per year, or a per capita income of ~33.5 widgets. Again, policies can change the distribution, but not the total number.
What we're seeing is that if an aging workforce lowers the overall workforce participation rate, as a society, we get poorer. If productivity increases, as a society we get richer. It's just a question of which change is larger, and in the US (and Europe, and much of Asia) the answer is the aging workforce. The demographics are clear and brutal.
The most critical metric is the ratio of current workers to retirees; that number is climbing and is going to continue without a policy change that somehow reduces the number of retirees, or increases the numbers of workers. Large scale skilled immigration might do the latter, but failing that, we're basically out of ideas.
This article spells it out fairly nicely I think: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-10/innovatio...
1. Corruption in Zimbabwe. Commercial farmers have been abandoning productive land and the country is getting poorer.
2. Communism in Cuba, Venezuela, SE Asia, and other regions over the past fifty years has ruined developing economies and made them worse. Most of those governments have fallen and things are improving again, but communism certainly has the power to ruin a country.
I'm sure there are others. Technological progress has give us a strong underlying upward trend around the world lately but sufficiently bad government can occasionally reverse the benefits of progress temporarily.
https://github.com/worldpopulation/population.io-api/tree/ma...
For most of human history a desire for sex was quite sufficient to ensure reproduction even without as much desire for children. With the advent of birth control the environment changed and there are new selective pressures. Also the modern world has a lot of new, competing, sources of joy.
R strategies certainly don't always beat K strategies! But humans are currently in a very rare situation where our population seems to be very far below K and most people in wealthy countries aren't living anywhere near subsistence level. So, until Malthus rears his head again, evolution is going to be paying a lot more attention to r.
For those following along at home, for N as the number of individuals:
dN/dt = rN(1 - N/K)There are genetic, dietary and lifestyle factors. Genetically and historically, people were used to famines and lower availability of food. So the body evolved to store up whenever food consumption increases. This applies to large parts of the population in Africa too.
With affluence and affordability improved drastically in the last few decades, people tend to eat more and richer food, which forces the body to store as fat. This triggers Type 2 diabetes, hypertension and heart disease. Diet wise, the consumption of dairy is quite high (not as high as some developed countries though) - significantly higher than consumption in the past. This combined with genetics makes things worse, and a lot of lacto-vegetarians also tend to suffer from the lifestyle diseases mentioned above.
I really wish we had more genomic data from across the world.
2. the heat indices of that country can be quite astonishing
Eventually those fertile and natal enthusiasts will dominate the population and exponential growth resumes. The current situation is a temporary response to an external shock, specifically to reliable contraception. But Malthusian conditions will return; Darwinism requires it.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884238.html shows avg household size has been declining since before contraception, and it doesn't look like contraception changed the slope.
> Each generation has more of these people because they're the ones that reproduce.
I.e. each generation has more of these people since people who see having children as something positive reproduce and teach these values to their children.
Being a memetic instead of genetic factor would have the advantage that it is easier to "unprogram" it, i.e. by having rules/incentives in the society that discourage reproduction or by education.
It needs the people in the productive age. Immigration of young adults is economically the best solution in short term as it leaves the expense of growing them up to the other societies.
And introduces pension problems for pension systems that are based on an inter-generational contract.
A more robust, sustainable solution is to improve productivity via other means (including automation).
> A more robust, sustainable solution is to improve productivity via other means (including automation).
Sure, that would be nice. It's also completely impossible. Productivity growth has never, ever, ever grown fast enough to bail us out of the hole we're in now, and we have zero (repeat, zero) ideas on how we could possibly change that.
Productivity growth will not save us.
That's how retirement works in most countries. The tax burden mostly falls on the "productive age" (18-65), so until automation pays as much taxes as the humans it replaces (corporate tax dodging considered), retirees in countries with shrinking populations are screwed.
The apparently abhorrent option is still an option, if you get desperate enough.
There's about 2 million people working in agriculture and 1 million working in mining in the US:
http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_201.htm
And about 5 million working in the energy industry:
http://energy.gov/articles/doe-releases-first-annual-nationa...
Our widgets are built by machines.
This too is a facile picture of the situation, but our material abundance isn't particularly under threat from contraction of the work force.
Countries with falling populations will just need more robots. Mass immigration isn't going to help, but this is one of those problems easily solved with tech.
Except: Productivity growth has historically never been high enough to bail us out of the hole we're in, and it has been trending down in recent years for reasons we don't fully understand.
> our material abundance isn't particularly under threat from contraction of the work force.
I wish!
Growth is not needed, only thing that should be checked is that the growth does not become negative. This should not be patched by the immigration, as it will just delay the problem, not fix it.
Indeed, policies can change the distribution. If one of the 100 people is getting 800 of the 4000 widgets produced, you can probably make some policy adjustments before coming to the conclusion that you're not producing enough stuff.
In much of the west we have unemployed adults who are making no widgets, and robots are starting to make widgets too.
Your allegory works for full employment and constant productivity.
Also, the basic math can be so vastly different in reality, that there will be huge leeway in terms of how many people can retire.
America has been quite successful with immigrants getting jobs. But in Europe some countries have for a while got a kind of immigration situation where unemployment among the migrants stays so high that they are actually worsening the ratio of workers to total population.
- don't use toilet paper - don't drink milk - don't travel more than a few miles from their birthplace
etc etc, and that will be shifting quite quickly, I believe. It took centuries for industrialisation to get e.g. Europe past such reference points of wealth, after two hundred thousand years of most of humanity living roughly without significant improvements in wealth. But it only took a few decades for e.g. China to lift hundreds of millions out of poverty and towards some form of middle-class.
You can debate some of the details for sure, my overal point is that we're not just going to add a few billion people to this planet, more importantly, we're going to add a few billion middle-class people to this planet. It's not the billions who live off of subsistence farming, who's impact on the environment is not all that much more substantial than any other animal grazing in a field, that is the big environmental issue. It's the fact that those people become more like us, drive cars, run refrigerators, eat energy-inefficient meats, have a shower in the morning and evening, live in large homes that must be cooled and warmed, eat more than necessary etc.
If you look at some figures that state we consume 10x more energy (making up a number here) than a subsistence farmer... it's more the economic shift from poor to rich we may need to worry about from an environmental, than raw additions to our global population.
(disclaimer: not implying I have anything against poor people getting richer, purely looking at it from an environmental perspective. Also, there's opportunities in a richer planet to build environmentally sustainable infrastructure, too, but on aggregate it'll bring some big issues to the table, far bigger than adding 1.6 billion poor people to our population, I think.)
The (human) carrying capacity of Earth was estimated to be around 2 billion, which was surpased sometime in the late 1920's. Contrary to other comments here, that does not mean that after you hit population 2,000,000,0001 we all die (we clearly did not). Instead, what it means is that given the technological level we had at that time, we'd consume renewable resourses faster than they can renew themselves, and we'd also produce waste faster than the environment can degrade it. Otherwise, more than 2B people would cause environmental degradation, which would itself reduce the carrying capacity in the long term.
Please note this definition is tied with humans technological level. It is not set in stone, since we have some degree of control over our impact in the environment, and we have the ability to use the same resources in a more efficient way. The big tragedy of 20th century is that this fact was not recognized but for a handful of theorists, and therefore it was not a political and economic goal to explicitly manage the carrying capacity of Earth. As of 2016, the situation is still the same.
By example, we gained a bunch of technologies that allows us to do the same stuff more efficiently. Given explicit economic incentives, we might have... maybe doubled our carrying capacity (CC=4B). Unfortunatelly, because this was not a goal itself, we engaged in a buch of economic practices that negated much of this benefits, so if we are generous these might have been reduced by half (e.g. CC=3B). Also given that population growth was not arrested back in the 1970's, but only slowed down, the carrying capacity has not improved at all (CC=2B).
Currently, environmental degradation is going in overdrive. We have lost a lot of time, and the resources we need to make an orderly transition are already commited to keep the system going. Population will go down, one way or the other. I don't believe in a single sharp die off many apocalyptic thinkers profetize, but adding and extra 1.6B mouths to feed will make the downward tendency of the curve more steeper than it needs to be.
> was estimated to be around 2 billion
By whom? A source would be nice, which is why I generally refrain from using passive tense when stating facts.
> Also given that population growth was not arrested back in the 1970's, but only slowed down, the carrying capacity has not improved at all
How exactly does population growth affect carrying capacity? If I have a car with 7 seats, its passenger capacity is the same whether I have no passengers or 6 passengers. If population is an intrinsic factor in carrying capacity, then whatever definition of carrying capacity you are using is inadequate.
But they didn't. Instead, people and societies adapted.
The lesson of that is that you cannot extrapolate our current technology and the resources we consume in the future and assume that everything will stay the same.
It's like saying medieval societies should have stopped growing so they could sustain on the wood they cut down.
I am reminded of an old joke:
"A man jumped from the 10th story and is falling to the ground. A woman at the 4th floor sees him from her window and asks, 'Hey, how's it going?'. The man replies 'So far, so good.'"
Yes, technology has saved us in the past. Given that new discoveries are increasingly harder and more expensive to achieve, will technology continue to do so in the future...?
Is it still possible to figure out a way to break the Laws of Nature? Yes or no, please.
1. The guy who first came with the 2 Billion figure in the 1920s was the scientist Raymond Pearl, though the copncept of 'carrying capacity' as we understand it today did not exist. Pearl's work was for the most part statistic/economic; It was Eugine Odum who later picked up that earlier work in the 1950s and applied it to the ecology concept of 'carrying capacity' which was independently developed by the observation of animals in natural environments. You can check the standard form in Odum's textbook "Fundamentals of Ecology".
The problem with the original formulation for Carrying Capacity is that it is assumed to be fixed, because animal behavior is governed mostly by insticts. Humans, even if ultimately subject to the Laws of Nature, can show much wider variations in behavior due to culture, availability of technology and many other factors. According to the wikipedia page, UN has several estimations of current carrying capacity, and they vary widely (From 4 to 11B) depending on each researcher biases and methodology.
I personally assume that the results in the higher end of the spectrum come from cornucopians that fail to take into account the economic and political presures that get in the way of implementing the (theoretically) optimal solutions, and therefore assume that actual carrying capacity is closer to the 4-5B range... but then, it's my own bias speaking there.
2. Other concept you can take from Odum is that long term carrying capacity can be eroded by organisims that happen to find a short term way to reproduce beyond the current carrying capacity of the ecosystem they belong to. This is what I was talking about in my previous msg, though I admit it sounds a bit convoluted and ranty in retrospective.
If you have a 7 seat car and you usually drive around with 10 or more people on it, (or with merely 5 fraternity bros that usually behave like baboons on meth) someone is eventually going to break one of the seats - probably the copilot one, which happens to be the least robust one. Then, you end up with a 6 seat car, at least for the lenght of the time that it takes you to fix it. And if you do not fix the seat but keep driving around with the same people on board, you are going to break another seat, and another.
Just please note, aeronautics does not defy gravity. It makes use of knowledge in mechanics of fluids to produce vouyancy, which ultimately is a manifestation of gravity.
To be more clear, infinite knowledge does not allow you achieve any arbitrary goal you care to imagine. It informs you on what means can be used to achieve the subset of goals that are feasible to begin with.
Throwing arbitrarily large amounts of computing power to the same problem may as well result in a flood of responses: "No. Nice idea, but it has been tried before N times, last time at T. It never worked because of X, Y, and Z"; "No. Nice idea, but it has been tried before N+1..."