Apple’s expected Mac event on October 27 is official(9to5mac.com) |
Apple’s expected Mac event on October 27 is official(9to5mac.com) |
I used to be a huge ThinkPad fan, but their wilderness years of bad displays and constant keyboard rearrangement turned me off, so I thought I'd try using my MBPR for Windows work instead. Turns out to be a very nice Windows machine, with the bonus of being able to boot into macOS too. (I can also run Windows under Parallels in macOS and that works pretty well, but running Windows native in a Boot Camp partition is more responsive.)
The only serious function key issue is the lack of the little gaps between F4-F5 and F8-F9. If you don't use the function keys much, you'd be surprised how important those gaps are for a touch typist. Lenovo even ditched the gaps for a while (and they had their own misguided experiment with a touch panel in the second gen X1 Carbon), but now the gaps are back - and they finally have good displays again.
ThinkPads also have the Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys instead of the crazy contorted Fn+arrow combinations you have to use on a Mac keyboard.
I've gotten pretty used to these Mac keyboard issues by now, but losing the function keys? That's a bit much. Looks like my next Windows machine will be another ThinkPad.
- Lack of tactile feedback makes them imprecise (is my finger over the button?)
- Imperfect sensitivity means even if you touch the correct area, 5% of the time the touch won't register. If it does, there's still the problem of response time (eg: it's easier to quickly type "AAAAA" on a mechanical keyboard).
- "Hover hand": resting your fingers on a touch screen is risky, so the ergonomics aren't great. If you relax with your hand on a touchscreen, you're liable to accidentally trigger a command.
I can live with it, if it's just the Fn keys, but I consider it a slightly unfavorable trade-off.
What really ruined this event for me is the rumor sites. Nothing Apple announces this month could possibly interest me as much as the rumored 2018 E-Ink keyboard. I've wanted such a keyboard since the Lebedev first announced their LED model, back in 2007 (earlier even?). I can't wait!
It's something Lenovo already tried and was hated for with the X1 Carbon (luckily they removed the useless OLED gimmick thing in a next iteration). [0]
[0] http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2014/04/lenovoca...
Now good luck finding a laptop with the right keyboard.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/
https://www.massdrop.com/mechanical-keyboards
So yes, exist people that build customized keyboards or (maybe) better, give info in how build your own.
If you're referring to laptop keyboard layouts, I agree. So much wasted space on your average macbook for the scrunched up keys they give you. If you're referring to keyboards in general, well, I disagree. There's a lot of custom options out there for almost every keyboard layout you could ever want.
It's safe to say you're not really Apple's target market :)
Personally, I won't believe this OLED thingie until I actually see it with my own eyes, but with the right support in the OS APIs, might turn out to be a shot in the arm for the laptop concept. Imagine replacing the whole keyboard with an ipad-like touchscreen? Sure, abhorrent for a programmer, but quite exciting for everyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the actual long-term endgame, for which an OLED strip is just a trial balloon.
That said, I'm not sure I agree. It's not just programmers who benefit from physical keyboards, but everyone who types. And that's a lot of people. I've tried typing on an iPad and an Android tablet, and it's pretty awkward compared with a physical keyboard.
OTOH, a friend has a touchscreen ThinkPad, and while she is a touch typist, she uses the touchscreen all the time. It makes me a little crazy to see her tapping the screen to do things that would be much easier with the TrackPoint or touchpad and buttons, but I just bite my tongue and let her have at it. :-)
[0]: http://10gui.com
tl;dr USB Type-C, Thunderbolt 3
So no, sticks vs soldered DIMM doesn't really make any difference in today's market for people who want more than 16 GB of memory.
(On the other hand, soldered battery is stupid and I tolerate it only because they're really good batteries.)
Apple doesn't really build their hardware so that it's "developer-oriented", so it's unlikely you'll see 32 GB of RAM anytime soon. Perhaps 8, 12 or 16 GB.
As a user of a modern web browser, yeah, 8GB by default isn't going to cut it anymore. Browsers leak like sieves and routinely I have to kill them once they hit 10+GB.
32GB is not even outlandish. It's a simple upgrade. The memory controllers support it. Apple can charge a fortune for it since it's "memory down" instead of DIMMs. Why wouldn't they do it?
>mac mini with A10 CPU
>MacBook air with the same guts as arm mini
>MacBook pros that are more powerful but not more powerfuller enough to satiate tech bloggers
>RIP in peace Mac Pro tower
>a Siri box for your house
It's not like a program made for amd64 processor could just run on an ARM one, so most programs people know and love just wont work. Also, emulating 64/32 bit is a pain and very slow for ARM.
It seems quite possible that Apple is pushing iPad pro for work to get "desktop" programs working well on the chip, but it seems a bit of a ways offs to have those power efficient A chips anywhere outside of mobile...
If Apple really wanted it to happen, they'd make the Mac App Store suck less.
http://mashable.com/2016/10/03/tim-cook-augmented-reality/#Z...
> It is expected to do away with the USB-A port, HDMI port, and SD card slot, featuring just four USB-C ports based on part leaks, and it is said to include support for USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt 3.
The four USB-C port configuration will be interesting. As far as I can tell the rumor stems from leaked housing shots (maybe prototypes) [1] which show four slots, two on each side.
The Wikipedia page about Thunderbolt[2] says:
> Intel offers three versions of the controller:
> - one "DP" version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×4 link to provide two Thunderbolt 3 ports (DSL6540)
>- one "SP" version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×4 link to provide one Thunderbolt 3 port (DSL6340)
>- an "LP" (Low Power) version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×2 link to provide one Thunderbolt 3 port (JHL6240).
This means either not all USB-C ports will be Thunderbolt 3 ports or the machines will have to have two DSL6540's on board. I don't know the cost of this chips but I think this could be expensive. On the other hand: same connector with different capabilities? - not Apple's style.
[1] https://www.idropnews.com/2016/06/01/photos-of-new-macbook-p...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)#Thunde...
This is Apple hardware - even if it's not the best, most advanced hardware out there, it will still fly off the shelves because of the fans/fanboys/startups.
I haven't seen anybody exploring how this will be implemented though: is Apple likely to borrow the secure enclave or other tech they use in the iPhone?
†I mean, they have a public document detailing the iOS security architecture, so they're at least proud of it. And of course, they went to court over it.
Wouldn't be happy with this carrying an mbp around with instant LEO access ~ https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fingerprints+iphone+fbi
If Apple starts shipping a Secure Enclave or some kind of hardware-backed crypto store it will enable a bunch of interesting use cases that are decoupled from the fingerprint reader itself.
For example it might be possible to build tooling allowing an AWS signing key to be stored in-hardware where it can't be scraped by malware on a developer's laptop. Same for SSH keys. And once you have those primitives you can build whole new protocols on top (eg, https://blog.trailofbits.com/2016/02/09/tidas-a-new-service-...).
Or they could be boring and just exploit the SGX on Skylake chips.
A10 is an APU from AMD, and is x86_64 based with an GPU on the same die.[1]
[1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-AMD-...
My speculation: No upgrade for the Air but I think they'll announce a new lower price for the new Macbook as well as somewhat upgraded internals. They may lower the Air price a bit and keep it around or perhaps kill it outright. Everything about the Macbook seems like it's made to replace the Air apart from the price.
Or like the fanboys on the Apple subreddit have pointed out, "who the hell uses wires in 2016". Not sure if certain people are complete apologists or simply out of touch with the real world.
Once a family start using wireless devices, even on two channels ( one each on 2.5 and 5 GHz ) the throughput drops dramatically. On more than one occasion I've been found sitting on the stairs near the router with a cable plugged into my laptop...
You seemingly missed my comment about Apple machines not being developer-oriented. A developer isn't Apple's target user.
> As a user of a modern web browser, yeah, 8GB by default isn't going to cut it anymore
You're clearly exaggerating this by quite a bit. Everyone knows modern browsers consume more RAM than ever before, but 8 GB's is extreme.
(Anecdotally, I tend to have hundreds of tabs open across multiple windows for weeks-on-end, and never have hit 8 GB's consumed by Chrome or Firefox, usually in the 1-3 GB range, and that's when I start to get concerned some tab has a broken script running).
> 32GB is not even outlandish. It's a simple upgrade.
Not really. If maybe 10% of their customers will use it, why include it? Especially right now when Apple seem to be in this kick of removing everything except exactly what they anticipate most of their users need.
> Apple can charge a fortune for it since it's "memory down" instead of DIMMs
I assume you're referencing the chips being soldered onto the mobo instead of being removable DIMM's - Adding way more RAM than necessary today may in fact preclude "upgrade" revenues later when Apple releases a line-up refresh in a few year's time (when average Joe might actually need 32 GB on his laptop).
> Why wouldn't they do it?
Because 32 GB is overkill in 2016 for majority of their customers. "Upgrading" to 32 GB today prevents them from doing so in the future in another line-up refresh (when 32 GB might be more reasonable for the average Mac purchaser).
You seemingly missed my comment about Apple machines not being
developer-oriented. A developer isn't Apple's target user.
I'm at a loss as-to why folks still don't "get it" that Apple has never been friendly to their developers. They still don't see developers as their primary target, evidenced by all of the things they've done lately to OSX/macOS, the until-recent ban of virtualizing OSX/macOS, non-replaceable hardware components, etc.
> Also, Apple's flagship products, the iPhone and iPad, require a Mac to develop for
That's not a technical limitation - that's a planned sales channel limitation. Forcefully compelled to purchase their hardware every few years. It's very smart, from a sales perspective, but has nothing to do with Apple favoring developers (actually, one could strongly argue the opposite simply due to this fact).
> A MacBook Pro is standard issue for developers at most companies
Just because this occurs doesn't mean Apple thinks developers are their primary target for their hardware.
It's likely safe to say that no one on HN is in the target demographic for Apple hardware. We aren't "normal" users, and we must admit it. Calls for developer-oriented gear isn't going to come to fruition simply by wishing it.
I agree, it would be nice if they did view developers as being an important demographic, but sadly, there is more evidence to the contrary.
> Why not?
That seems to be a good question for Mr. Cook and gang.
Considering they're less and less art-professional-oriented (losing SD ports and HDMI, losing jacks, losing dedicated software...), what would these "Pro" machines actually be oriented to? Consumers buy tablets and phones (the laptop market is shrinking); companies buy plasticware with support contracts. Who else is left?
Apple machines are developer-oriented - in fact, I'd argue developers are now their most consistent target market for MBPs. But it's web and app developers we are talking about, so they have no need for special ports and software; they just want basic stuff (cpu/ram/keyboard/screen/usb/wifi) done extremely well so they can show off a bit. And this suits Apple absolutely fine, since they can sell relatively basic machines as "premium" and get nice margins out of it.
As it happens, several sub-segments of the developer category do, in fact, need more ram for VM and suchlike. The necessary chips have been around for some time now, so they're small enough to fit. And there's history: when the current MBPr debuted, in 2012, no other "pro" machine had 16gb in such a slim body; 16gb configurations were all as bulky as 32gb laptops are today.
The 16gb market has caught up now (see Dell XPS et al), so it makes perfect sense to jump ahead again. After all, they had 4 years to prepare.
> may in fact preclude "upgrade" revenues later
The 16gb option has been there since the very first MBPr in 2012. It didn't preclude anything - in fact, it was almost necessary to drive such a huge screen, animations were terrible otherwise. The 15'' was unusable with 4gb (do they even sell that option anymore? nope), and just ok with 8gb. I remember the long line of reddit posts from people who bought the 4gb only to exchange it for the 8gb shortly after (or endlessly moan they had bought a lemon).
> Because 32 GB is overkill in 2016 for majority of their customers.
That's like, your opinion, man. I'm sure that driving a large OLED strip will need a bit of extra memory, for example. And touting the capabilities of Thunderbolt 3 will require very large external screens in cascaded configurations. That stuff ain't gonna work without some serious kick.
Personally, I think the Pro line should (and likely will) have 8/16/32 options. Anything below that is really just for consumers and students, in this day and age - not for people ready to drop $3k on a laptop.
No, I'm really not.
2785 waltona 20 0 9812.0m 6.289g 144100 R 74.5 40.2 13309:18 firefox
112 tabs right now.
Do you have a certain tab that consumes more? Or an extension that's not friendly to memory (such as AdBlock). Regardless, 8 GB is not normal.
112 tabs isn't normal either, for an "average joe". Apple sells to, and caters towards, "average joe's".
So yeah, planned obsolescence. And this is a good thing how, exactly?
I see no one here making the claim that it is good.
However, planned obsolescence has been Apple's MO for as long as I can recall.
They are a hardware company, after all, and selling you new hardware is exactly how they make revenue.
Bottom line really is - if you want a developer-oriented laptop (with many high performance CPU, GPU, RAM, Disk and I/O Port options), Apple isn't really the place to get it. Apple is a consumer hardware company.
The cables of Apple's MagSafe charger are also quite crappy, they tend to fray after 2-3 years of use. I hope that gets better with USB-C and if not at least you'll have better third-party chargers available.
> Personally I'm glad to see MagSafe go away if that means I can
(In 4 years I had to buy two bricks. Those thin cables are shocking. Still, Magsafe is such a nice connector, I wish they were all like that... instead of these large phallic daggers that will inevitably break their precariously-soldered ports.)
Edit: Reading other comments, I guess I was lucky.
Well, depending if these new macs use the USB-C port for charging _and_ regular USB usage, another laptop with a standard non-magsafe charging port could actually be more optimal for some/most.
First, it's a good thing that we're converging on a standard. Standards mean not only that we can safely buy components from third parties (for instance, buying reputable, reliable USB Type C cables from places like Monoprice or whomever), but that we can borrow charging cables from others relatively easily. We've had a taste of that thanks to MagSafe's ubiquity, but a USB-based spec potentially broadens that.
Second, USB battery packs (admittedly a slightly niche product category, but one that's been growing rapidly in the past few years) could potentially be made to charge Macbook Pros now. There are some battery packs out there that support MagSafe today, but my sense from shopping around every few months is that the best option continues to be to buy a battery pack that has a standard electrical outlet, and carrying that big bulky MagSafe AC adapter with me. Transitioning to a USB spec (should) permanently open the door to portable battery packs, third party AC adapters, etc...
Third, USB power hubs (again a slightly niche product category, depending on whom you ask) can consolidate all of the AC adapter functions that devices need for charging. I'm already nearly there --- my tablet, battery pack, bike lights, phone, and watch all charge by USB (heck, I have a charger for my DSLR's batteries that uses Micro USB), and a single AC adapter for those devices is both tidier and easier to pack and travel with.
I agree that MagSafe's really nice and I'll be sad to see some of the benefits go, but particularly with MagSafe 2 they've overcorrected in my opinion by making the threshold strength necessary to break away too low, and it's caused me to seriously reconsider whether the frustration of all these inadvertent disconnections is worth the benefit. I see at least a few reasons to be glad that the next laptop I buy (maybe in a year, certainly in three) will probably be able to charge via the same (reasonably priced!) AC adapters and battery packs that I'll own for my peripherals, and that if I'm really up a creek it'll be more likely that I find someone with a compatible charging cable, since USB is (and will continue to be) pretty much ubiquitous.
I'm assuming that they will do this with USB-C.
I don't see any reason to go off spec given that they should be able to go up to 100W, but I may be wrong. Or Apple might come up with some hazy excuse for why the existing standard was no good. It'd be a real shame, though.
I like it, but leaving a dongle there all the time is dangerous, so you'll end up taking it out and back in every time, defeating much of the convenience. Still good for safety though.
For some reason Macs are the only Apple product not covered for accidental damage by AppleCare. I'm not sure why.
It's not even about margins, the top of the line iPhone costs more than the MacBook Air and it's much prone to accidental damage.
Same here, I'm fine with the 6S+ for another year.