EDIT: Penn is extremely platform/track constrained -- NJ Transit, LIRR and Amtrak are all sharing a fixed number of platforms, some of which are too short.
To maximize platform utilization, they have to wait until the last minute to finalize track assignments -- if you reserve one too early and the train ends up late, you're wasting an empty platform. Once you send a horde of people to a platform, moving them to a different one is a challenge (stairs/bottlenecks, communication, etc).
If a full train pulls up and the platform is already full people are going to end up on the tracks. I haven't seen this at Penn but I have seen the issue happen in the subway when there are train delays. When this happens the MTA has to hold the arriving train in the station with the doors closed and clear the platform before opening the doors to let people off.
It's a nightmare. Their concerns here seem completely reasonable.
It seems pretty unlikely that 100% of the people on the outbound train would use the app and trust the historical data to go to the platform early.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/07/17/amtrak_s_unpe...
Although it is indeed inefficient and the MTA is completely inept, the platforms for LIRR trains are very narrow, they are shared by two trains and the escalators to get up to the main floor are also very narrow and crowded already.
So although the "mad dash" is in fact a mess, its a safer mess than overcrowding the platforms on the tracks.
The island's population doubles (1) each workday.
This view of everyday life for many is worthwhile to observe.
As well as "dont talk on the train" rule - but you have to ride at commuter times
(1) nyt 6/3/13 commuters from the other boroughs and outside the city nearly double Manhattan’s population, from 1.6 million to 3.1 million.
The idea that somehow it's unknown or occult knowledge as to which track to go to is silly, when they announce the track for the train over the PA, they sometimes say 'This is a track change', and the few hundred people who are on the platform already have to trample back up to the concourse and then back down to the new track.
That said though, just imagine how much worse it would be if that mass rush was between platforms, fighting opposing traffic, instead of just from a (mostly) open waiting area.
MTA's appeared a number of times on this website and by all accounts it's where tech innovation goes to die, most of their service is still based on switch wire systems that were built in the 60's. Whether that's due to bureaucratic inertia, inadequate funding, or unions or whatever I have no idea, but that's the real problem.
Not only did he know which track any of a half dozen trains that he might take would come in on but he knew where the doors would open for each of the tracks. And he wasn't the only one either. If you went down before they announced the tracks you'd see little clusters of people waiting apart from each other on an otherwise empty track. We'd usually go to the same car in order to reduce the distance on the other side. Other commuters would do likewise and so trains would have a contingent of regulars.
There's a fascinating kind of micro-expertise that develops when you do the same thing over and over again.
I guess the wording doesn't technically ban you from displaying historical platform information, but that would likely be a bad-faith use of the data anyway...
[1] http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/Terms_and_Con...
[2] http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/Developer_Gui... "Occasionally Time-Bound Data will become available through NRE feeds before it is ready to be published to the public. [...] One such example of Time-Bound Data is platform numbers. Early display of platform numbers, particularly at origin and destination stations, can lead to platform overcrowding and/or staff not having sufficient time to prepare the train for oncoming passengers. In some instances, platform numbers will be available in Darwin before being displayed on screens in stations."
That changed a few years ago, interesting to see the formal policy behind it, and an idea for a side-project :-)
I'm just amazed this app was even necessary in a first-world transport system. For all their faults, the UK rail network is pretty good at providing timely information (and as some other comments have mentioned have solid APIs for this stuff). Same with the LTA[1] in Singapore.
[1] https://www.mytransport.sg/content/mytransport/home/dataMall...
However, there are a couple of tools to get around this. For Starters, each revenue service train has a number (like 508). In a push-pull system like the MBTA the first coach in the consist is nearest to to the platform. This coach has a number like 1827. Luckily, the MBTA publishes which trainsets will be assigned to which departures. This makes it easy to know that 1827 is for train 508. All you need to do is walk out to the platform and see if 1827 is sitting there.. if so it's your train. You can get this mapping of trainset to train via a bunch of apps.
This has been further expanded upon by micro-social apps like "MBTA Rail Tracker" which has a comment section for every train. The whole thread is basically "which platform" followed by a bunch of responses and then snarkiness on why the trains are horribly late all the time.
It is a shame that this had to happen to OP. I personally don't see the app as an issue, because the amount of commuters that would actually use such a thing is rather low (seriously, stand in the concourse and look around at people, a large amount of them are not using their phones).
My original idea was to scrape the data from their webpage, or see if there was a way to get the data from the Train Time app's Arrival Countdown page, but according to the post, it has been removed from their website, so there goes that idea.
The lesson to me is clear though: don't try to make an app that would make commuter's lives easier. The MTA does not seem to want that, especially during the track repairs. I find it interesting that it was shut down so close to the start of the Penn Station track repairs...
As an aside, I wonder whether the OP considered charging a hefty price (>$20 or so) for the app. This would lessen the number of users and page requests.
Having travelled from Penn many times and having had to deal with the massive stampede that ensues when they suddenly reveal the track number, I would pay dearly to have this info available to me. Even if I used it once every year, not having to fight crowds or look forever to find an available seat, that would be money well spent. Additionally, many of the peak travelers are business travelers who probably have more money to spend on an app. I realize this isn't the most democratic solution, but it could be a way to lessen the crowds nonetheless.
But organizations change how they work with customers/the public all the time, and I couldn't help but say Waaah.
Things change; tell us about the alternatives you tried to move around this obstacle.
But what I don't understand is that why can't they change the seat allocation process such that people can reserve remaining available seats on the trains for free if they have arrived in station lobby? This can result is reduced rush to grab seats and will help people to make a more informed decision around whether to wait for the next train.
Instead of asking users to report the track info, it can be automated to a great extent with the use of BTLE beacons on each platform (but that again needs permission from MTA / Penn station authorities unless a long lasting BT 4.0 beacon can be sneaked in somewhere).
Sad that MTA is not cooperating. Can understand why the app had to be shut down!
Are tickets only for a specific time of train?
Or are trains less frequent than every 10 minutes?
We do this for NJ Transit with about 90% accuracy. We spent at least two months figuring out how it all works, though. It's non-trivial to do right.
Discussion upthread is about commuters being pushed onto the tracks, which sounds like a good reason not to display data that isn't 100% certain.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton's fence
So the only way to gather the data would be manually from the station.
EDIT: Oops, missed that he didn't end up going live with the scraping.
It would still be great for the MTA to publish this data intentionally; but I'm sure the potential for trains to switch tracks and the associated backlash when they do is what prevents them from doing it.
Perhaps they could adopt the airline model, where there's a best effort to reach a particular pre-announced track, with notifications ringing out when they can't.
As an aside, fuck websites that prohibit scraping. If you send me some bytes I'm gonna do whatever I damn well please with them.
Isn't it the same approach? If you can abuse a site you will, because they opened themselves up to the public?
Where does it say it was against the TOS?
(Also, on reflection, "Chesterton's Fence" is an unnecessarily complicated and overly verbose way of saying: "The MTA probably has a reason for the change.")
Good luck with that. I'd be amazed if you got a response.
Yes, at peak times there is congestion (just like at peak times there's highway congestion), and the existing infrastructure (built mostly before 1930) was built to be significantly safer and more efficient than existing systems. And 90 years later, it still is usually the most efficient and safest mode of transport in NYC. But given the record number of subway riders and record age of the infrastructure, it takes everyone pitching in a little to not make the situation intolerable. Part of that "pitching in" is "Don't go onto the platform before the train's riders have left".
There is so much more space to wait for track assignments as well as space on the grand stairwell to get down to the track in Grand Central(even with tourists) that I don't think they are comparable at all.
If the Metro North does publish assignments much earlier it's likely because its much safer to do so. Although I don't think I've ever seen people waiting on the platforms for Metro North trains in Grand Central.
So a website allows you to "download some bytes". Yes you can do anything you want with THOSE bytes. Does this mean you should make an app to let people scrape the website in an automated way and possibly overload it?
If airlines, restaurants give something free or discounted, does that mean you can make an app to systematically let millions of people take advantage of the arbitrage?
XKCD even has a comic for exactly this situation: https://xkcd.com/1499/
I wasn't the one who said "FUCK WEBSITES". I used a nicer word and questioned the logic. Yet I get downvoted while the parent comment with expletives is upvoted.
All he'd need is one or two users to take a photo of the screen and he'd have his source of historical platform data.
I certainly don't support cutting pensions or wages whicg means money needs to come in and Albany consistently constrains the MTA's budget requests and needs. There's probably waste but this alternative is ridiculous and Cuomo's billion is a drop in the bucket. We should probably be realistic as a nation and invest a trillion dollars in the system.
This is great for efficiency - that's why it's done. It's terrible for humanity. It's stagnant, it kills creativity, it leads to these incredible tragedies of the commons when so much relies upon the commons.
Your other points may be valid but I'm not so sure about this one. Artists tend to cluster in big cities, often with mass transit (and sometimes without, like LA). I sincerely doubt there's any sort of correlation between mass transit and creativity.
I would think the "tragedy of the commons" would people who elect to drive a car during rush hour rather than taking a similarly viable mass transit option if one exists.
Or are you using the term just in the context of overpopulation? Thanks.
It's basically one of, if not the worst parts of every day. And there is nothing you can do to avoid it.
The platforms are very narrow for the LIRR tracks, so holding 200% of a train (outbound and inbound) would be sheer pandemonium, and would practically guarantee someone falls off the platform. Even holding 100% of a train (just inbound, disembarking passengers) is already straining the platforms and methods of egress to their limits.
Holding even just 110-120% of a train load is very much a safety issue. I'm with the MTA on this one - the "mad dash" is horrifyingly inefficient, but is the safest course of action.
Of course, the correct fix to this is to fix the platforms such that passengers can wait at track-level without safety issue. But, of course, that's a multi-billion dollar problem nobody seems willing to touch.
I'd hate to imagine what would happen during peak if a train came in on an unexpected track AND a different train on the expected track - it is not unusual for multiple trains to be announced at once. Then you'd have a pile of people trying to go up those narrow stairs while a pile of people were trying to go down.
As somebody who commuted for a long time at peak rush hour back and forth from Penn Station to D.C., I can tell you that following people who "seem to know where they're going" would not be a reliable strategy.
Also, we treat astronauts like cattle. Squeezed into small areas, down tiny hallways. The Hugh-manatee.
To a certain extent, because it's so cheap to aggregate, we lose out on opportunities to differentiate. Rather than spreading out so we work close to home, we build giant throughfares that make for clear divisors - And then do insane things on top of that. Look at the commute times in and out of SF - the traffic is really bad flowing both into and out of the city, because lots of peninsula-working persons want to live in the city and lots of peninsula living persons want to work in the city. (I say this with great hypocrisy, living on the peninsula and working in the city, but at least I'm in Millbrae and not Sunnyvale).
The same thing has happened in manufacturing - It's so cheap to produce mass-market products, and they do enough in most cases, that it's basically impossible to find semi-niche products in many areas. You can buy cheap Chinese goods or pay 20x the cost for high quality American made, but there's no mid-market anymore. Every so often a product comes around that is mid-market, but when people flock to it, it inevitably goes down in quality. My example is Lands End jeans - In the 90s, they were great. Then they got popular, got bought out, and are now just another branding for cheap goods.
When working from home becomes more acceptable, cities are going to look like things of the past - Full of only collectivists who can't live without someone to praise them at every corner, and the poor and downtrodden who've gotten stuck in the ghettos. This is, of course, cyclical, and been given several names - "White Flight" being the current pejorative for one of the major cycles. But I'm looking forward to being a Solarian[1]; VR for interaction, Automated cars when I need to be somewhere or to transport goods, and high-bandwidth network links for everything else. I don't see anyone else arguing for lining fiber everywhere we run power to, but when I do, I will gladly vote for them.