Ask HN: Everybody lies. How do you deal with it though?

24 points by starlord 8 years ago | 22 comments

Often lying or not telling complete truth contextually becomes easier to have more efficient conversations and relationships. I started with being bad at it in early twenties, but now as I have grown older it's become second nature to quickly cook up a lie to get out of an uncomfortable situation (usually of minor significance most of the times) and to maintain relationships (especially the long distance ones, not necessarily romantic ones). Once in a while on some days, I get super depressed about having to lie so often though, even though they make life way more efficient and lower maintenance cost. On most days, I just accept it as a way of life to live better in present world... Was wondering how other people deal with it? (Asking in this forum, as I feel slightly more technical people will probably prefer to lie to quickly get out of a situation as it's more efficient use of time...)

meric 8 years ago |

Your question starts with a false premise "Everybody lies". You lie, and justify the lying by projecting it on to everybody else. The answer is very simple, stop lying. You'll find everything beneath you fall away. Your relationships will all be adjusted to accomodate your truthfulness. Your life would be unrecognisable months from now. And you will no longer be super depressed about having to lie.

Personally I don't think a "more efficient use of time" is more important to me than how I feel in my day to day life. It's better to be late to work than to miss a once in a life time conversation with a stranger as I pass an interesting scene on the way to work.

starlord 8 years ago | |

While I was on the same page when I was fresh out of college and actually did believe this... I am sorry but I have learned otherwise only after stumbling through all the really uncomfortable life experiences from working in a large "regulated" bank, to working in a funky tech startup with "great" founders, to starting my own company and pitching to "great" investors, to even the personal relationships and even the other seemingly "ideal" relationships. Being too truthful only leaves you feeling more lonely. Almost all the hustles are based on lies anyways... I do personally believe that if one has had to struggle enough in life and wasn't blessed with enough privilege/guidance/network, moving forward in life without some lies is almost an impossibility. (Basing this on candid conversations with some of the "successful" people I have had the chance to interact with at times...) So I am pretty sure, there enough people here who lie often, but aren't comfortable admitting it yet. I just try not to lie to myself at least, hence was looking for opinions if someone did feel the same and how they dealt with it.

marktangotango 8 years ago | | |

Sounds like you've been engaging sociopaths on their own turf, and yes I can see that in that environment everyone lies would be a true statement. Personnally, I don't lie about anything, and I find life to be very simple. I don't have to think about what I told to who, when. But I'm just an old developer who's been in the trenches for a lonng time.

You might read up on the gervais priciple, it explains a lot imo.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

meric 8 years ago | | |

If it helps, I spoke from my own experience. I had completely opposite experience as you - it's only after stumbling through various life experiences I decided to tell the truth as much as possible. The more I told, the more life became livelier.

twobyfour 8 years ago |

What sorts of lies are we talking about? What context?

"I love your new haircut!" is a very different lie from "I used to be pen pals with Barack Obama".

Telling a creepy stranger at a bar "I have a boyfriend" is a different sort of lie than saying the same thing to your friend who lives across the country.

And "I've got food poisoning" is a very different "I can't come into work today" excuse/lie than "my grandmother just died".

In each of these juxtapositions, people will judge you less harshly (and you should probably judge yourself less harshly) for the former lie than the latter.

The difference basically boils down to the fact that it's normal, it's not especially harmful, and to a degree it's expected that people sometimes tell transient untruths to grease the wheels of social interaction or get out of an uncomfortable situation.

What's not OK or accepted is to tell lies that misrepresent yourself, your history, or your life situation to someone with whom you have an ongoing personal or professional relationship.

If you're telling the former type of lies, I suggest you find a way to live with the fact that you and everyone else tell them and probably always will.

If you're telling the latter type, you may want to engage in some self-examination as to why. It's the sort of choice that can get you into major difficulties, and it's the sort of problem you can even get professional help for.

holxuz8s 8 years ago |

My sense of things is that yes, everyone lies to some extent. I don't believe someone who says they don't.

The question is really what magnitude of lying are you talking about?

The way I think about it is something like this: what ethical obligation do you have to be truthful? I usually assume that the obligation is to be truthful, but recognize there are some scenarios where the situation or other person's request of information from you is unethical, and so in those situation I feel under no obligation to reciprocate.

My in-laws, for example, routinely inquire about my spouse and me in ways that are inappropriate and cross boundaries. To me, we should not be in the position of having to refuse to give that information; I have tried, but they ignore that, and escalate things. So now I lie, and feel no guilt because to me they violated basic social contract to begin with.

That's an extreme example, but I think it extends to other more mild situations as well. I think there's some situations where the likely consequence of telling the truth or refusing to give that information is unfair or unreasonable, so I see lying as ethical.

I guess I see the assumption that you should always tell the truth as being based on an assumption, in turn, that the elicitation of information itself is being done in good faith. I don't see that assumption as necessarily true.

shortoncash 8 years ago |

Are you an immigrant by chance?

Some cultures have a greater degree of bluntness. This society makes great use of lies to smooth over social transactions and it's something that can seem alien depending on where you came from. Social lies and soft lies can be difficult to work with early on in life because lies will make you question your assessment of reality and the severity of situations that could affect you adversely. The fact that everyone peddles the same sorts of lies in this culture doesn't make things any easier.

In this society, I think the correct approach is to trust the judgment nature put in you instinctively to sort out the truth from fiction. Moreover, if lies are a sort of social currency, then there's no reason you can't be a fiction monger yourself -- especially if you think the consequences of such lies will be a wash in the grand scheme of things. (In particular, you have to balance soft lies with your sense of what you consider ethical behavior.) In particular, I think you have to be more selective about who you actually owe the truth to rather than commit to framing yourself as a liar.

lastofus 8 years ago |

Check out the book "Radical Honesty" by Brad Blanton. He proposes a way of living ones life without all of the small lies, and the benefits there of.

tjalfi 8 years ago | |

A. J. Jacobs' interview with the author[0] is an interesting read.

[0] http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a26792/honesty0707/

_m8fo 8 years ago |

I don't really buy any of your assertions. Why even lie? If you're lying to get out of an uncomfortable situation for example, you can't possibly value that person that much no? Ultimately, if telling the truth kills the relationship, it was probably never really alive to begin with.

As you lie it'll only beget more lying. E.g. Pretending to be friends with someone which will only get you more pretend friends and so forth.

What exactly is the end goal of lying? Financial gain? Prestige? Power?

---

Anyway, it's pretty easy to tell when someone lies consistently. When you do so the honest people will begin to limit interactions with the liar. And so your interactions will be consist of a higher and higher percentage of liars. Eventually you'll have to lie to keep up with the other liars. It's almost like the "keeping up with the joneses" effect, but with lying.

I've found that most vices are committed in pursuit of others. Identifying those and eliminating all of them (not necessarily entirely, but together) is the solution, if you that's what you want.

tugberkk 8 years ago |

This question just came after when I was watching House M.D. episodes :)

Question is right, I did not understand other commenters saying that it started with a false premise. People lie, people cheat, people kill and they corrupt. That is why we have police, that is why we have prisons, etc.

My personal solution is to interact with as less people as I can in my daily life. I have friends which I know and chose to be my friends; other than that, although I know not everyone is a bad person; I choose to interact as minimum as possible.

oblib 8 years ago |

I think your problem (I get super depressed about having to lie so often) is simply because you've not thought it through very well so I'll share a few things I've learned...

The first job I ever had I watched my boss take credit for things I designed several times while I was standing right there listening to them.

At first I was stunned, then I got pissed, then I realized they were just insecure and selfish but I still couldn't recover any respect for them and that lesson stuck with me. I didn't want anyone to think of me the way I thought of them.

There have been a few times when I was sure someone was telling me a lie and I was wrong, so I try not to jump to the conclusion that someone is lying even when what they're telling me sounds a bit far fetched, but I reserve the right to not take it for the truth. There have been times I'm really glad I did that.

As to telling a lie to get out of an uncomfortable situation I can't really think of many times I've done that. I just don't find telling a lie to be easier because I don't want to worry about that coming back to bite me in the ass and that worry is the minimum wage we must pay for a lie.

There are times I know lying could be convenient and potentially beneficial. For example, I quit school in the 10th grade and that doesn't look good on a résumé. But I've learned not to worry about that because the truth is if the person or company doing the hiring cannot see past that one bit than the odds are I probably won't want to work with them.

And if I lied and they hired me and then found out I lied I must expect they should fire me. How could everything else I've told them not be suspect? That would really suck if I found I loved working with them.

No, when you think it through and consider the cost vs benefits it's far easier to not lie and there is no necessity at all to lie and in the end growing old with a clean conscious is what becomes the most valuable think you can possess.

theonemind 8 years ago |

I don't really lie, but I believed strongly in telling the truth from a young age. For instance, if I tried lying about having some illness, I would literally get a psychosomatic case of it. So, yeah, I have lied, a few times, but hardly ever. Sometimes, I will not say things and let the other party infer it (which they shouldn't have much trouble doing, because I don't hide it, I simply don't see any reason to say things they might find hurtful, unless the demand it. If I see some old acquaintance that looks terrible, I won't say they look good, or the same, or anything...but if they ask, they'll get the true answer.) As it turns out, the world doesn't end if you always tell the truth, though I don't know how you can make that transition if you live in a world held up by lies.

So, I disagree. Not everybody lies.

danreed07 8 years ago |

Interesting question. I don't completely agree. I've learnt that lying is a statement based on the assumption of absolutes, meaning that you are certain of one outcome but are presenting another. This might be presumptuous as a start.

To be fully truthful, I've found it helpful to consider myself capable of fault and not fully informed to make absolute assertions, but rather I opt for statements of confidence with narrowed scope. Therefore, there is no truth or lie but only your perception, which is limited. (flashback to Stats 101, confidence intervals)

It also depends on the kind of person you are. I think the more comfortable you are in your own skin, the less likely you are to be affected by the judgements of others. If I ask a good friend something, I don't want them to lie, even if I don't like the answer. Extending this, I will do for them what I expect in return.

I know this all sounds very vague and kind of like baloney, but I've met a person who has always been a straight shooter with me, and I've since tried to emulate it. The above is what I've learnt from him.

starlord 8 years ago | |

As I mentioned in the other comment I think it's easier to be honest when you are in a position of power (economically or socially) as you can probably absorb the repercussions without too much of a harm. Like probably only telling the positive stats when raising money is much more beneficially. It's always great to have some friend to ground you back again in truth, but it's very rare to find such folks. Most people are way more comfortable in ignorance rather than hearing/telling the real truth... so just to even have amicable relationships with most people you have gotta lie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

danreed07 8 years ago | | |

Can't argue with that.

mythrwy 8 years ago |

"as I have grown older it's become second nature to quickly cook up a lie to get out of an uncomfortable situation"

Thats a terrible habit to have developed. The old idea ideas of honor, of character, of moral strength, of reputation grew because they were based in innate principals of human trust. We live now in a transient place where people switch groups at the drop of the hat so some people think these ideas no longer apply. These people are wrong and the old ideas will be back with a vengeance. Be someone you would want to do business with. Have as a friend, as a lover. Otherwise you are in for a long, lonely and difficult road moving from place to place as you burn one set of people after another. Because cultures that lie as a habit ultimately can't out-compete those where honer is an important attribute. Don't be very clever. Just as in code, it catches up with one soon enough and it's just not worth it.

balazsdavid987 8 years ago |

Most people can detect lies easily, they just don't bother with confrontation so maybe you did not get better at lying, simply people started giving less weight to your words. Your relationships got easier because they become weaker and more shallow and that might be one reason why you get super depressed once in a while.

csomar 8 years ago |

I used to be in a similar situation until I decided to rectify it all at once: Not only I never (almost) lie, but I tell the blatant truth. This dropped the number of my friends to a few. (or three at best count?).

Guess what? I no longer have to care about it because I played it the other way: I don't have to adjust my way of life for you, so only friends that can adjust to your way of life sticks around.

seanwilson 8 years ago |

Strive to avoid lying by learning to be comfortable with yourself (e.g. just be honest why you don't want to attend something instead of making up excuses) and by getting away from people and situations that you feel push you into telling lies. If you feel forced to lie a lot there's probably changes you can make to your life to help this.

starlord 8 years ago | |

Well, I think it's easier to be honest when you are in a position of power (economically or socially) as you can probably absorb the repercussions without too much of a harm

meric 8 years ago | | |

I think for those people it's harder to be truthful - there is more to lose, especially if they've always lied for the purpose of accumulating power economically or socially - the more lies there are the more lies there have to be.

It's much easier for people with nothing to lose to tell the truth. IMO telling the truth is not an ability you can gain by accumulating power or status, but is an ability you sacrifice to attain power or status.