There is no competition here, there is only lives saved. Untrained ad hoc groups had smaller boats, had more boats, and were able to help people who would have died otherwise.

I do think it is worthwhile to talk about problems that occurred. Get a list of them, prioritize them, find solutions. Though they have to be solutions that don't make things worse, preferably ones that get tested during a mock disaster, not during the next real one.

One thing to note: Most people involved in these efforts were good intentioned and did their best. There are a few reports of bad actors, but they were rare.

> I told him they needed to try to get to them

> I went to the bathroom, refilled my tea, walked around a bit, thinking to myself, "What are you doing?? You're not qualified to do this!"

I'm not trained to handle this sort of thing either, but I'm pretty sure if you suspect someone has been electrocuted you shouldn't encourage others to attempt to rescue them unless you're confident they aren't also at risk of electrocution.

It wasn't clear to me, but I'd love to learn more about the tech powering this app. Is it open source? Is it somehow decentralized?

The implicit question is, what percentage of people in the disaster zone did, and did not, have a channel out through this app? Does this story represent the 10% case or the 50% case or...?

Not sure where to find the answer...

Obviously Zello and its ilk bring significant benefits with them, but I worry about the impact they have on proliferation of radio skills.

About the Cajun Navy - There were so many people responding to this disaster wanting to help with their time and boats that many times we found ourselves staging to launch but ultimately unable to get in the water because the neighborhood or area we were planning to search only needed 15-20 boats and two or three times that many boats staged for the task. That means dozens of trucks pulling every kind of floating contraption lined up on relatively dry Houston streets and roads and waited in line hoping to be able to take off into the floods and bring people out who needed assistance. When the authorities determined that enough boats had launched for that area, everyone else had to find somewhere else to go. Massive resources were wasted with boats lined up in one spot that could've been actively searching somewhere else.

We ran into a couple of guys from the east coast following Zello Cajun Navy reports who at great expense, drove out to help and had not been able to participate for two days because they were trying to stage in spots where the Cajun Navy was being called up. Once the call went out to the Cajun Navy, boats flooded in from all over and you were nearly guaranteed to have more than you needed. In Orange, we ran into a Texas-based rescue outfit, not the Texas Navy but some group who dressed in military duds. We explained that we were heading into one of the neighborhoods along the Sabine to check a report and asked whether they had already checked it or knew anything about it. They hadn't heard that report or checked that area so we were cleared to go in and the leader of the group asked how we heard about the people needing help. When told that we heard it over Zello, he commented to the effect that the Cajun Navy and Zello was kicking their asses in mustering people and boats.

Fun stuff but the reality of the Cajun Navy effort from our standpoint was that a lot of people wasted a lot of time following their channels and maybe better coordination with other groups would've made a smoother effort.

About the Cajun Navy channels on Zello and Zello itself - Over time the effort evolved into one where each affected area had a dedicated channel to direct boaters to those who most needed assistance. This was not true at the start when the Houston channel had reports from all over the Houston area and eventually Beaumont, Port Arthur, Orange and Vidor too. It was tough at first to determine where the person filing the report was located although there was a website we used to guide us that was actively accumulating requests for rescue and pinning them on an active map. This map evolved to eventually drop many of the requests that were determined to be expired due to rescue already happening or floods receding, etc. We chased reports from that map in the areas that we worked and several times found ourselves following an old report that had not been updated. Obviously, the solution to that is to have boaters radio in and update as they visit addresses. Once the large collection of initial reports from those who had been rescued were tagged or removed the site was much more useful.

A big drawback of Zello in our opinion is that it is vulnerable to manipulation by anyone with the app installed. We kept hearing reports of shots fired at rescue boaters, attempts to steal rescuers boats, rescuers being attacked by residents, etc. and I feel that they were almost all false. We staged at Addicks Dam at the same time reports were actively coming in on Zello Houston channel about shots being fired and boaters were encouraged at the staging area there and later at Bass Pro Shops in Katy to be aware that some rescuers had been targeted. While at Addicks Dam staging area none of us, all Texans and familiar with weapons and gunshots, heard anything remotely like a gunshot. In the days that we were there none of us heard a gunshot at all though the reports over Zello made it sound like you might be taking your life into your hands if you tried to rescue in some of these neighborhoods. A number of rescue boaters were armed and as far as I know none of them had to fire a single shot. I could be wrong though.

Along the same lines Zello was full of reports about imminent dam or levee failures. This got really old as we moved from Houston to Beaumont to Orange and kept hearing the same reports of imminent failure from possibly the same person who kept assuring listeners that the Coast Guard was there with him and informing him that people should leave as failure was imminent. Jeez. Give it a rest. I checked maps around Orange and found that there is no large lake or dam or levee just upstream and we radioed to correct the reports letting people know that they likely applied to Addicks Dam in Houston if they applied to anywhere. Within minutes the same guy came on and announced that the failure of the dam was imminent, the Coast Guard had informed him, etc. A lot of bad information and potentially damaging misinformation was spread.

Anyway. We're home now. Rebuilding will take a while. Help if you can.

Does seem like a good idea if Apple or Samsung might build in some point to point radio hardware similar to a Gotenna that's works without cell infrastructure.

But I became almost depressed after reading this https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/10/world/americas/irma-carib...

I've got different meanings for "First World Problems".

Within California, there are mutual aid requests flying between counties almost all the time, along with support from CalOES, who coordinate heavy equipment, helicopters, communications, and other resources as needed.

Good search and rescue teams train regularly. In my current county, volunteers must at a minimum complete one of two wilderness first aid courses every year, CPR for professional rescuers every other year, show up to a minimum number of searches throughout the year, and a smattering of other training. (edit: overall training in my county is available almost once a week, with major mock searches a few times a year, plus an average of about 30 call-outs per year, usually including one major multi-agency incident. The folks that show up to most of this stuff get really good really fast.)

There are a lot of folks that just show up and dabble and provide the necessary manpower for basic tasks during an incident, and some folks that take it really seriously and try to complete as much training as they can and respond to as many incidents as their day job allows for.

Unfortunately, the county-level search and rescue teams rarely venture out of state.

I have some ICS training and could have managed a dispatch role, talked some folks through CPR, juggled multiple concurrent requests, and so on -- and I have software available that would have helped a lot. But this is the first I've heard of Zello.

FEMA is making some changes to SAR resource management and I'm hopeful that there will be improved cooperation between the states in the future.

And by the way: if you're interested in this kind of stuff, and want to do something hands-on helpful in your community, I really recommend checking out your county's SAR organization. If you're not sure where to start or what to expect, feel free to send me an email and I'll reply. If you're in California, I might even know some folks from your county's team. (SAR organizations could really benefit from more tech-oriented people, too.)

There is also the Public Health Service Commissioned Corps[1], which have other public health roles, in addition to deployment during natural disasters. The PHSCC deploys with the Coast Guard for sea duty. USA Freedom Corps[2], and AmeriCorps[3] play a role in disaster response.

Team Rubicon[4] is a group of veterans that deploys in disaster response. I think they have small boat capability.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Guard#Maritime_Reg...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Public_Health_Se...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Freedom_Corps

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmeriCorps

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Rubicon

1) Security of evacuated areas and vital objects

2) Assisting

- during calamities such as flooding and disease

- authorities in maintaining public order

- with large military transports or exercises ('Host Nation Support')

- civilian authorities other military units during large events

3) Ceremonial activities

Notably absent: fighting wars on foreign soil. And while training attendance is required, all work is voluntary.

The National Reserve is part of the regional emergency plans so there's a real opportunity there to be part of the organised relief efforts right from the start.

If it's not, you may want to work on partnering with local emergency services to get one going.

In many other countries there is Civil Defense ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_defense_by_country).

The US also appears to have a Citizen Corps (https://www.ready.gov/citizen-corps) under DHS.

Then LVMPD decided it was their responsibility.

http://ups-battery-backup.com/cell-phone-ups.php

https://enterprise.spectrum.com/solutions/carrier-services/c...

There were just a _lot_ of stranded people and not enough boats.

However, many were using the app, and it's a great showing on the part of the Houston cell network.

So I went ahead and spent 8 months on it. I got my Extra license (the highest level), learned all about Ares, got into nets.. all of it. I bought an Icom 7300 (really great radio). I even started learning Morse.

Why did I quit?

I couldn't deal with some of the hmm,"interesting" people on ham radio! I have a slight accent, enough to mark me out as a non-native born American (I'm a citizen now though), and I kept meeting people who were downright nasty to me.

I tried focusing on the positive, but after a few months and one particularly unpleasant contact, my wife asked me why I was wasting my time trying to talk to people who clearly didn't want me around.

She was right, and I quit. Yes, I met plenty of really nice hams, but every week that I was on the air, I would be bound to find someone calling me names.

Sure, you can just "spin the dial", but for those who don't know, ham radio is not anonymous. FCC regulations state that you have to give your call sign every 10 minutes, and you can look up anyone's name and home address from that call sign. That unpleasant contact consisted of a fine citizen telling me that he was going to come over and "kick my ass". Just because he thought I was illegal or something like that.

I'm sure he was just bloviating, but hey, I have a wife and kids.. I'm not risking it.

I'm still an Extra, but I sold my radios and don't want to get into it anymore.

Hams did help during Harvey and are helping during Irma, but it doesn't get as much press as it used to.

I also think that there has been sort of a systematic degradation in neighborhood relations that has an impact on disaster response. My neighborhood has mostly middle aged and older people in it now, most of us know each other, but many neighborhoods have become much more transient in the last generation or so and ties are not as strong.

My challenge to a community that includes "hacker" in its name is to consider picking up the radio hobby. It has some real old school hacker opportunities for everyone. And, it has never been easier to obtain an amateur license. The Morse code requirements have been dropped. The technical part of the test is not that difficult for anyone with any understanding of electronics. The regulations are somewhat obscure, but not difficult to grasp. We need an infusion of new amateur radio operators. The old guys (like my dad) are disappearing fast.

It seems uncertain whether these kinds of weather events are going to become more common but in general it does seem that climate change is likely to cause more extreme weather conditions worldwide (some of the wildfires we've seen could have a similar isolating need-rescue situations), disaster preparedness might become much more of a way of life than it has been for us in a while.

I'm on a search & rescue team, and this is usually the chief challenge with "the public" getting involved, there is no established organizational structure. People all mean well, but it is incredibly difficult to utilize a horde of untrained people effectively at the drop of a hat, and it can also make things worse.

Zero criticism of the Cajun Navy et al, sometimes a motley crew is the best you've got and you do the best you can. But if you've ever been turned back when you tried to volunteer for a disaster, this is why.

I wonder if a future extension to ICS/NIMS could be, how to plug in these unconventional resources where professional manpower is insufficient. Develop a 2-minute briefing, a point of contact for unconventional resources to report to, a simplified structure & communication network. The most important concepts are pretty simple, and the first responder doesn't need to know that much about it.

Would you prefer an organized, professional response in two days, or an impromptu Walter-Mitty-wants-to-help response in an hour? I don't think it's ever feasible to rely only on professionals for response to wide-scale events like this. You need neighbors helping neighbors.

Think about whatever naturally sourced neighborhood disruption strikes your area. For us in New England, it's snow storms and ice storms. In a snow storm, I go shovel/snow blow out some neighbors sidewalks and/or cars. In an ice storm, I'll help clear the sidewalks near my house of fallen branches because I have the time and equipment to do so. I'm not about to sign up and attend year-round training or drills on disaster response, as I have other things to do. Instead, I'm going to fire up my chainsaw or snowblower as/when/if I see it's needed to help someone who can't reasonably help themself and when I'm not reasonably needed at work anyway due to the scale of the event.

There were even wings from New York and other states who went to Texas just to assist: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/08/31/harvey-helicopter-res...

According to the first article, "We haven’t deployed this many people since World War I. So, this is literally the most we have deployed in 100 years."

It's impossible (or, at least, not anywhere near feasible) to plan for disasters on this scale, and there will probably always be a level of response from people who aren't professionals.

Professionals train and plan to coordinate the work of other professionals. Volunteers from outside that process can supplement their work or serve in other roles entirely.

Your questions imply that there is something wrong with more chaotically organized volunteers supplementing the work of those professionals without close supervision. You couldn't be more wrong. There are plenty of people in need of help to go around, and volunteers might easily reach people who are overlooked or triaged by the professionals during the early stages of recovery.

> What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed?

I am sure they are all just sitting around since there's basically nothing going on to demand their attention.

> Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD?

It's the middle of an ongoing disaster. Thank God people are acting and helping rather than pondering these questions...

> And don't the victims deserve organized, professional response?

Limiting the response to organized professionals would be stupid. Turning volunteers into professionals in the midst of a disaster is impossible. It's hard to know what you're on about here.

The Red Cross is a different story altogether. During the last few crisises they were caught asking for money but never spending it but kept up asking for it. Charity hording for lack of a better term means other smaller locally based charities don't receive the support they really need.

Frankly, there is never enough money to hire enough people to do all the work. This is the US and we have a long tradition of neighbor helping neighbor. Many of the "amateur" responses are professional grade people. Many areas of the country are covered by volunteer fire departments.

The Red Cross often banks the money, and people should really read the authorizing legislation for FEMA since it is a more limited organization than many think.

We do, but what this showed was that the different levels have different uses.

Local levels are distributed and have better latency--they can get to the most immediate problem fastest. National levels are centralized and a little slower but have way better throughput--they can help massive amounts of people over time.

I get that local organizations deal with some situations better than some large, clumsy bureaucracy but I tend to agree with wnissen, if this continues as trend relying on a patchwork of individuals (heroic as they may be).

I wish there was a non-military or less-military domestic version of this, I've considered joining the national guard for this reason but I'm don't trust that I wouldn't end up fighting and dying in a pointless war. If there was another volunteer force that was devoted to humanitarian issues and search and rescue I would be all for it.

It seems like its size may have been supplemented by serving as an alternative to conscription, however.

I actually think this is pretty reasonable. We're too used to thinking that bad things are Someone Else's Responsibility. Maybe general-purpose tools (internet, walkie-talkie apps) combined with a sense of civic duty are the solution we should embrace, perhaps with a bit more public training (ala volunteer fire departments).

Would it be better to quadruple the size of FEMA or train more Americans in CPR, hypothermia, how to react in a flood, how to prioritize casualties, how to interact with others and coordinate, etc...

This is the difference between Americans and many other cultures — there is a sense of self-reliance that often doesn’t exist in other places. Many people would prefer to let the government handle it as if the government was some omnipotent force with infinite resources that are positioned exactly in the right place: like battalions of Rangers sitting in a C130 at Hunter Army Airfield just waiting to drop into action. People underestimate the logistics of massive rescue operations.

Also, a practical question: how do you deploy 1000 boats instantly? Air drops? Does the government just have thousands of boats staged across the country with thousand of qualified operators ready to jump into action?

Americans as a culture are different — they don’t sit around waiting for “official” help — they jump into action. I’d personally rather count on some redneck with a boat than just hope government comes through. While bureaucrats are figuring out what to do, old Jimbo with his swamp boat is already in the water en route.

That’s America. You don’t have to agree with it, you don’t have to like it, but Harvey was a great example of the American spirit in action: neighbors helping neighbors — even local businesses, like Houston’s largest furniture store, opening their doors to help. In France, you would never see an IKEA or Auchan opening their doors to those in need during a disaster, you’d never see a virtual armada of volunteers ready to jump into action. During the great Europe flood of 2016, people died in their homes — wouldn't they have loved to have the Cajun Navy? In Triftern, Germany, 250 students were trapped in a school for 24 hours — I bet they would have liked to have some rednecks with swamp boats.

I am not arguing against government disaster response, I am arguing that in times of disaster, Americans, especially in the South, are proud to jump into action. Lives were saved because a whole bunch of people decided to act.