Ask HN: Does anybody still use jQuery?

46 points by jsnathan 8 years ago | 44 comments

I know that frameworks such as React and Vue have taken over most of the mindshare, but I still find jQuery easier to use and often more productive, especially for smaller websites.

Even when using a framework I usually include jQuery to smooth out the edges where the framework does not behave as I would have expected, or seems to make implementing a part of the intended UX awkward or complicated.

Is anybody else still relying on jQuery in some capacity, and if so, what value do you get out of it? Do you use it along with one of the major frameworks, or together with smaller libraries? And do you plan on dropping it soon?

sheraz 8 years ago |

Yes, and I love it.

In hindsight I have been guilty of resume-padding and falling prey to hype by choosing to build on technology not appropriate to the problems at hand. And I find myself reverting back to basics, with bits of new tech sprinkled in.

My reversions:

  - React, flux, redux ---->  jQuery and intercoolerjs when needed
  - Swarm, Kubernetes  ---->  Just plain old docker on single machine, scale vertically with cores and memory when needed
  - Microservices first ----> Django Monolith first, then break out microservice when needed
  - API Gateways (kong, Azure) ----> Nginx reverse proxy with hand-edited configs.

I can do this because I have chosen to work on niche problems and smaller markets. Scale is not my issue, even in very successful scenarios.

I see jQuery will have a place in my stack for some time to come. It just works (tm), and it plays well when I need to level-up with wither intercooler or yes -- backbone.

Another benefit is that it is a low barrier to entry for junior developers. It allows me to establish a baseline knowledge, and then mentor other things like workflow, code structure, and architectural things rather than chasing weird configuration things inside of webpack or the taskrunner-du-jour.

aserafini 8 years ago | |

Your reversions resonate with me very strongly, even down to the exact tech choices. While the industry seems to chase ever increasing complexity, I believe 90% of web applications would be served more than adequately by jQuery, intercoolerjs and Django running in a single container that can scale horizontally if necessary on Elasticbeanstalk. (eb deploy.. Done).

But, sadly, it feels like openly selling yourself as a consultant in these technologies would be a form of sabotage and limit your opportunities considerably.

I've just had an idea for branding myself: artisinal, vintage web development using traditional jQuery / Django. :)

mpfundstein 8 years ago | | |

I might agree with you and your parent. My objection would be that I all too often experienced that seemingly small projects turned out to grow into huge applications. And previously accumulated tech debt is hard to get rid off. So I mostly start out now with my own boilerplates. React + Redux is one git clone command. Docker including Service Discovery (Traefic, Registrator), RabbitMQ and MongoDB is another git clone [1]. So I am productive immediately and the right tech is in place.

Regarding the discussion Micro-Service vs Monoliths. I agree that a monoliths gets you started quicker. But it also asks a lot of discipline from the programmers. E.g. 'stick to your domain boundaries', 'Don't take that shortcut of direct db access because business needed the feature yesterday', etc. Otherwise you'll have big troubles splitting it up later on. [2].

I REALLY REALLY REALLY like that micro-services make your boundaries explicit and enforce you to write contractual APIs aka Interfaces. Much more than all the promises of scalability etc.

[1] https://github.com/MarkusPfundstein/microservice-service-dis... [2] https://martinfowler.com/bliki/MonolithFirst.html

acheron 8 years ago | | |

Calling jquery “vintage” is like playing Coldplay on the oldies station.

sheraz 8 years ago | | |

I think if you are selling services as a consultant then perhaps sell the solution rather than the technology behind it.

When I buy a car I’m buying the benefit of it, which is convenient transportation. I don’t really think that I’m buying a drive train, engine, steel body, airbags and whatnot.

joevandyk 8 years ago | |

How do you deploy updates to the docker containers without downtime?

xet7 8 years ago | | |

For example with Docker Swarm: http://container-solutions.com/rolling-updates-with-docker-s...

Some companies have GitLab workflows that also deploy successfull builds automatically, checks are there problems in that deploy, and rollbacks automatically when needed: https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/473?autostart=fa...

Such workflows could also be made with for example: - Huginn https://github.com/huginn/huginn - Flogo http://www.flogo.io

sheraz 8 years ago | | |

Well, the trick is that I have downtime but it last for only a few seconds.

  Docker pull <image name>
  Docker container stop <container name>
  Docker run <opts> <image name>

This does result in a “hiccup” for any clients wanting to connect. They will see a 502 gateway error at which point they should retry with exponential backoff.

And that is the trick — make the client retry with the exponential backoff. Document it as the expected behavior when that event arises. And for our traffic patterns this is acceptable.

ukulele 8 years ago |

I would be surprised if a majority of new projects with a JavaScript library weren't using jQuery. I personally moved on a few years ago and I suspect that's the case with many people who respond on HN, but there are still plenty of valid use cases, particularly when JS needs are simple and backwards compatibility is really important.

If you're doing projects with light functionality and already know jQuery cold, you really don't gain much from React, Vue, et al for that project. You may gain something personally (career path, different way of thinking, etc), but that is a different topic.

For anything slightly above the basics, I'd recommend Vue as a great alternative to jQuery. No build tools required and it's easy to stay in the realm of plain HTML, CSS, and JS. It also "progresses" really nicely if you have more complex needs later on -- that would be a main benefit over a tool like jQuery.

Vinnl 8 years ago |

What you used jQuery for hasn't so much been replaced by React and what not, as it has by native Javascript. Most of the things you used to do through jQuery are done with regular Javascript (and DOM API's) just as easy nowadays - depending on your browser demographics, of course, but will be fine most of the time.

INTPenis 8 years ago |

Of course. We're not all mobile app developers on HN. Some of us still make small info sites, or prototypes. And me, I'm actually a backend sysop but my hobby of developing websites keeps me branching out. So I've never developed a web/mobile app with a framework, and still use jquery for simple websites.

ronreiter 8 years ago |

You are right that jQuery is dying:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=...

5 years ago, jQuery was twice as popular than it is today. But I wouldn't call it dead just yet. It's a work in progress.

By the way - one of the things that killed jQuery is HTML5, it's not only Vue and React for more advanced features, a lot of people used jQuery for basic DOM manipulation, which today you can probably get away with just fine with the HTML5 DOM API, since the addition of the querySelector APIs and things like CSS's classList APIs.

quantumleap22 8 years ago |

Yes, for almost all projects I work on due to the plugin ecosystem. If size is a concern I will look at zepto, a smaller 80/20 implementation of the jQuery API. And I almost always use intercooler.js to keep my js footprint small.

floatboth 8 years ago |

querySelector + classList + CSS transitions + fetch absolutely destroyed jQuery.

And Web Components are starting to destroy jQuery Plugins.

terelak 8 years ago |

The company I work at uses jQuery for most DOM manipulation. I'm a backend developer and already knew it a bit so it's easier for me than using React for simple things. I don't do any frontend outside of work, so I've never gone past the React tutorial on my own time, and I suspect many mainly-backend developers have a similar story.

zabowl 8 years ago |

Yes. I use it especially for Wordpress custom themes or small websites or web apps that rely on DataTables.

hambos22 8 years ago |

It depends on the project. For web applications and SPA I prefer using React. For ecommerce and smaller projects, the stack is jQuery for cross browser (and old browser) compatibility with the minimum effort.(And Vue for some commerce components like minicart, quickview etc)

Macha 8 years ago |

Not so much. It's lost out at both ends. Larger projects end up with Vue (and before that Angular), and smaller projects end up with just VanillaJS due to support for APIs like document.querySelector(), window.fetch(), <input type="date">, etc.

rajangdavis 8 years ago |

I stopped using jQuery after I started a rather large Angular project 2 years ago.

Since then, I had one project where using jQuery and jQuery UI was dramatically easier than building out a datepicker input by hand; however, for everything else, vanilla js is my go to.

kylorhall 8 years ago |

Almost every older project I've worked on uses jQuery. Currently working on a large Rails app, some parts being 10 years old, and it's the same story. Old code is jQuery, new code is not.

It was spectacular 10 years ago, but now it's pretty much useless to me. Most everything either shouldn't be done in javascript or has a native replacement – at least with polyfills and Babel that I need for all development. I would love to remove it, but it would take far too long and provide little customer benefit (remove the library download), so it's only removed when something is refactored.

CosmicShadow 8 years ago |

I just use JQuery and a few other libraries as needed as I use ASP.NET MVC so that takes care of the backend, no need for ugly, complex JS, keep it as minimal and simple as possible. If things need to be done more intensely in front end I use Knockout which seems to be very good at what it does and doesn't muck it up by offering more than it needs or is meant for.

no1youknowz 8 years ago |

I'm using jQuery for a platform that I am launching very soon. The javascript/jQuery portion of it currently stands at 63k LOC. I would not be surprised when I finish, it'll stand at over 100k LOC.

If I look at the number of open source 3rd party js libs that support it, they are around 180k LOC.

Eventually, I do see a project that ports over the entire js code over to ES6 and Vue.

i_dont_know_ 8 years ago |

Absolutely! Different tools for different projects. If I'm building a 'real' webapp (as in, something with users logging in and lots of data dependencies) I'll use something like React, but if it's a small project... it's not at all worth setting up the infrastructure and maintaining it when a few lines of jQuery will do the job.

mythrwy 8 years ago |

Yes. I think it is faster to develop in general for small sites.

When it becomes very much not faster is when you have a bunch of jQuery poorly (or "customly") organized and someone else has to wade back through.

Vue is awesome though, really liking it. Sometimes I use Vue and jQuery together to take advantage of jQuery plugins. Does this make me a bad person?

simion314 8 years ago |

Yes, it is a good tool for one of my projects where I need to cleanup some html, is very good for DOM manipulation. It is also a very good tool for simple webpages, If I have some mostly static thing that I need to show I can render that on the server with PHP and have jQuery insert it on the right place and handle some events,

scarface74 8 years ago |

Yes. I'm currently using JQuery+HandlebarsJS as a poor man's model view framework. I create the interface with Handlebars + Bootstrap, use JQuery to call an api when necessary. The template also has the necessary JavaScript event/function inline.

siquick 8 years ago |

Yes, still haven't really ever seen the need to use React yet.

tugberkk 8 years ago |

Of course. It still works right? :) Probably there are experts on Jquery, and although they are probably learning new technologies, when needed they rely on their expertise.

paulgrimes1 8 years ago |

I've literally only used it for .animate() in the past 6 months. VueJS came and took over. Might be time to think about pulling jQUery out..

stctgion 8 years ago |

I use it alongside Marionettejs. Not my first choice of technology but works great for extending the framework with a plugin or two

throwaway180118 8 years ago |

As a matter of fact, I write terrible Javascript all the time throw jQuery all over the place.

My end users don't care! YMMV

originalsimba 8 years ago |

"have taken over most of the mindshare"

Have you got numbers to support that? Because I think it's wrong.

jsnathan 8 years ago | |

It's only my impression, really. But I have seen a slew of articles about how jQuery is dead, and very few people still writing articles about it's benefits. Many libraries that use it are also unmaintained now (though they often still work, of course).

If you want some numbers, compare e.g. the dates on popular HN posts for jquery[1] vs react[2] and vue[3]. Most popular articles for jQuery are 4-6 years old, while for React and Vue the popular stories are much more recent. Of course, HN might be somewhat special.

[1]: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=jquery [2]: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=react [3]: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=vue

weego 8 years ago | | |

HN represents current dev trends like reddit represents current social trends.

originalsimba 8 years ago | | |

How many new articles do you see about C/C++? Blog hype does not represent language strength or longevity.

rahilb 8 years ago | | |

"Only new and overhyped platforms don’t have problems, because nobody cares enough yet to discover them"

raymond888 8 years ago |

"I know that frameworks such as React and Vue have taken over most of the mindshare"

Marketing + meme.

- React, flux, redux ----> jQuery and intercoolerjs when needed - Swarm, Kubernetes ----> Just plain old docker on single machine, scale vertically with cores and memory when needed - Microservices first ----> Django Monolith first, then break out microservice when needed - API Gateways (kong, Azure) ----> Nginx reverse proxy with hand-edited configs.