Dev work contract with worrying clauses applicable after contract ends

3 points by enachtry 8 years ago | 8 comments

Today I found about a worrying clause presented to an acquaintance in his new job contract as a developer. I've had a stable job for a few years so I assume I'm out of the loop and would like to know how common this is.

The clause is that for a few years after employment ends, the developer is supposed to submit to his former employer all his new "inventions" (i.e. I read that as anything newly created that is of any consequence) so that this employer can unilaterally decide if the inventions are actually rightfully his as a consequence of providing the developer with the opportunity to gather work experience and know-how.

This is for a company in the EU, for a mainstream development job with a small company (less than 20 devs).

I was aware of confidentiality agreements that extend beyond the period of employment but I've never seen something like this. Have you?

chrisbennet 8 years ago |

Contracts may be full of crazy over reaching stuff. When faced with a contract like this, you ask if you can modify it. If they say, “Take it or leave it.” you turn down the offer.

If they say yes, find a lawyer and get it looked over.

Sometimes you can just cross out stuff, modify or add stuff i.e. add a time limit to an open ended NDA, reduce the scope of a non-compete or eliminate it all together. After a while you get to know what to look for.

Once I was given a contract that stipulated that, if there were errors in my work product, I would be ”liable for estimated loss of profits”. (!!!)

I quoted the offending line and wrote: “Nice try but yeah, no.” I had my lawyer fix it and they were a great client.

hguhghuff 8 years ago |

Just name the company and post an image of the clause on a LinkedIn post and the company will quickly and publicly remove it.

joezydeco 8 years ago |

If you want to read some previous discussion on a nearly similar topic (it happened to me), go here. Some EU devs also chime in about their experiences:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16637900

(spoiler: I didn't take the job)

enachtry 8 years ago | |

Holly @W$%! This is exactly what I was looking for :) THANK YOU!

joezydeco 8 years ago | | |

My discussion was for a full-time employment agreement in the USA, but hopefully some of it will carry over.

imhoguy 8 years ago |

This clause is abusive and I think is illegal in EU. Better consult an employment lawyer. I would ask to remove this clause or turn down the offer.

enachtry 8 years ago | |

It is abusive and largely illegal but that's irrelevant. Once you sign something like this, even a small company has enough resources to harass you with lawsuits that you might win after a few years but by then your life is mutilated.

What they gain with such threats is control over you with an installment of fear to ask for a raise or do anything that separates you from the company because that clause makes you unemployable for X years while it's active. The former employer (O) just needs to check your LinkedIn profile and send a notice to the new employer (N) that everything you write for N must be submitted to O so it can unilaterally decide if it actually belongs to them. It's absurd but I can believe companies try this because they have nothing to lose.

He refused the offer but I would like to know how common such a clause is, this is why I ask. Until now, I haven't thought about how careful you have to be when signing what one could assume is an absolutely benign and common work contract.

imhoguy 8 years ago | | |

Depends on EU country of course, but any court can invalidate such clause or even entire signed employment contract without much effort, especially in such highly unilateral uncompensated unbounded case.

I am sure refusing the contract is tough decision for some but I think in a long term it is a wise move. Companies with such shaddy tactics usually are quite bad toxic places to work in and lack any reputation. Just check some other non-compete/confidentiality clause threads here in HN. You will find similar experiences.

From my experience it is extremely rare situation in EU nowadays, but I may be biased as I work with reputable companies from my network recomendations.