Why You Should Build a Hackintosh(martinhering.me) |
Why You Should Build a Hackintosh(martinhering.me) |
1. Apple desktop hardware 2. Windows OS software 3. Linux OS software
Laptops are another matter, I buy actual Apple hardware. But then I don't want a super powerful laptop, I have a desktop hackintosh for that ;)
It probably takes less money and effort to simply buy a Linux laptop.
I would't be. It doesn't matter if they build the dream "pro" machine today if they are not going to refresh the line for 10 years.
Or maybe I’ll run an OS that lets me say “no”
I have no moral objection to it and I totally understand the motivation. Apple is completely failing to provide hardware that runs at a fraction of the performance you'd get from building a commodity $2500 AMD/Nvidia desktop even if you give Apple $7000 for a Pro model. Apple's platform especially sucks if you do anything with deep learning since they refuse to sell anything with Nvidia GPUs anymore.
But the actual experience of running a Hackintosh is terrible. Even if you buy exactly the right components, it will still take you days to get everything patched and working perfectly. And then every minor security patch will completely break your system, so you end up never updating. Finally you hit a point where your system is so far behind that you give up and either buy a Mac or just install Linux/Windows.
If you are using the computer to do paid work and can't gamble like on every update, I think you'd be crazy to use a hackintosh. But if it works for you, sweet.
Two people can both buy "the right parts" according to the site's myriad recommendations but randomly choose slightly different combinations of motherboards or video cards or wifi cards or whatever and have wildly different experiences overall with updates.
[1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-cpu-compatibili... [2] http://www.macvidcards.com/i-want-the-best-graphics-card-for...
However, picking the correct hardware and figuring out the necessary basics is a challenge in itself. You need patience and technical knowledge. So it is far from going into the store and purchasing an iMac. That is certain. But it is not as dark as you are putting it, IMHO.
The only reasonable thing to do was to dedicate the machine to gaming on Windows and buy a Mac. Not trying this again anytime soon.
Updates up until 10.13.6 worked seamlessly, only "hack" you had to do was change out the WiFi card.
The Macbook hardware is pretty excellent, and prices are comparable to the (few) competitors of similar quality. In absolute terms, they are not outside the range that their market can afford.
It is only in desktops, or, more precisely, workstations that Apple's offerings fall short.
This encouraged me even further to run Linux as my daily driver. Without a hackintosh, I might be stuck in overpriced, un-upgradeable Apple land.
Instead, I completely made the switch: got a 300$ fully decked ThinkPad x230 with 16gb ram and an IPS screen, running Ubuntu + i3, and the former hackintosh is now on server duty. I'm finally apple free :)
So I highly recommend hackintoshes as a stepping stone to leaving Apple!
My 2013 Macbook Pro retina will be at this point in the fall with two major upgrades uninstallable. I'd say this argument no longer holds because even the official hardware often can't be upgraded. I would be shocked if the next OSX version doesn't fail to upgrade like the one from last fall. That new filesystem breaks everything. Thankfully I had backups, but even attempting again is not worth losing a day to Apple's shitty software. OSX Used to be the one piece of software that was solid. Now there is no Apple software I use that is solid except old versions of OSX <= 10.12.x
/Applications/Install\ macOS\ High\ Sierra.app/Contents/Resources/startosinstall --converttoapfs NOI look at it another way. Apple, as a company is failing to meet the needs of some of its users:
- You can’t get an upgradable pro machine
- you can’t get a good keyboard (for some definitions of good)
- macOS gets more iOS-ified with each release and some people don’t like that
Every Hackintosh continues to add momentum to that platform ecosystem, enriching it so that Apple can continue on more or less as they want.
I use Linux (and OpenBSD occasionally) these days, and I do so in part so that I can sometimes be the guy who sands off a rough corner or two. Even by using the platform and occasionally submitting bug reports, you’re enriching a platform that may be the last un-nerfed general purpose computing platform standing. If we lose general purpose computing to a world of app-store enabled iPad Pros and Windows Store-locked Surfaces, we will have lost something important I think.
If I wanted to go back to seeing my operating system as a hobby then Linux would be mostly a better option.
Some things I ran into on a daily basis:
* GPU support (at least with Nvidia) is terrible. Anything GPU-bound was absolutely horrendous. The OS would just freeze and reboot itself a dozen times a day due to the GPU (and not obviously e.g. overheating issues). No issues at all when running Windows on the same box. And this was after I spent hours trawling forum posts and fiddling around with kexts and patches and installing random tools off GitHub that would let you downgrade from the latest Nvidia drivers to the last "known good" ones. This didn't used to be as bad, but High Sierra really fucked things over.
* I never got non-Bluetooth audio working. The community recommended a USB audio adapter; never worked for me. I'd occasionally connect AirPods, but not having proper support for the fast device switching meant it was a pain in the ass.
* iMessage worked... maybe 30-40% of the time? Switching over to my new Mac, I'm amazed how I'd trained myself away from sending text messages on my Mac purely because I didn't expect it to work reliably.
* Other little things didn't work that you wouldn't reasonably expect to work. Apple Pay in Safari via your phone, unlocking your computer with an Apple Watch, remote iOS debugging in Xcode / Safari, etc. Little things that I didn't really notice at the time, but are so much nicer now that I'm back in first-party hardware land.
I'm glad I did the experiment, and I'm glad I still have my custom box lying around for Windows gaming, but man am I happy to be back on first-party hardware. If I needed to switch back to using my tower as my primary computer, I'd definitely use Linux or Windows before going back to a Hackintosh.
The biggest appeal of Apple is their wonderful hardware. I dislike MacOS and it has been worse over the last years.
It seems to me that a Hackintosh is the worst of both worlds. If you spend that much time hacking around the hardware anyways, why not use Linux ?
Fast forward to present day, I have both a personal and a work macbook. I badly miss my Linux setup, but there aren't any other laptops that can compete with a MBP. I've debated installing Linux on my MBP, but then I'd be back to forcing an operating system to work on unsupported hardware.
I wouldn't say that MBP is "unsupported hardware" for Ubuntu.
I rebooted to OS X only rarely, for testing Mac programs, or sometimes for Skype and doing presentations, when I really didn't want to fuss with projector problems. (These days Skype is working a lot better on Linux..)
While unproven, it seems related to the T2 chip and it causes kernel panics in certain cases. There is a lengthy thread on the apple support community about this[1], and Ive worked with an apple engineer off and on for a few weeks to gather information about my system.
The symptoms are a kernel panic occurs when the system is allowed to sleep overnight with certain OS options enabled. The panic also occurs when the TB bus is loaded down or daisy chained and accessed by an application. So far there is no fix but ways to decrease the kernel panics.
The affected users appears to be anyone with an iMac Pro or 2018 macbook pro. I happen to have both of the affected products, but fortunately my macbook pro is not having this issue. In my case, I was able to turn off things like powernap, unlock with apple watch, and some other energy saving functions, but I dont want that to be a permanent configuration. I still get crashes when using applications that access the TB bus as well.
I also have a pair of rMBPs.
I dual boot with Windows 10 so I can game when I want to.
It's all about getting a very compatible motherboard. If you don't do your research, it's going to be a battle.
100% agree.
When buying, if one keeps to the specific hardware listed in the buyers guide and golden builds from tonymacx86, that alone should alleviate the majority of issues one could run into when building a hackintosh.
I did it about 8 or so years ago on a Thinkpad T60. It was fine, and basically worked.
But my time was more valuable than the incremental cost for Apple hardware.
"[Steve Jobs] decreed that the Macintosh would remain perpetually bereft of slots, enclosed in a tightly sealed case, with only the limited expandability of the two serial ports."
https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor...
https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor... is the proper URL (for those like me who are curious, and want to see what you're talking about!)
For mobile, where you do want decent battery life and power management I still use Apple's machines.
Many people here are UN*X ppl and that's great. But for people doing creative work such as Video, Audio, Graphics there are only 2 platforms - macOS / Windows.
I hope and believe Linux will catch up... there are already some products available in Linux flavor. But until then and when Apple's in-house ARM will be old enough to ditch Intel machines...
That's one of the most valid choices.
It's also possible to pass through a graphics card.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180807171806/https://martinher...
Everything from getting drivers to work, to handling updates, is a major pain. The whole point of the mac is that just works, and a Hackintosh is the furthest possible thing from that.
I'm not the Mac Pro customer (just programming) to begin with and I am satisfied with the 2015 and 2018 MacBook Pro's. Just as I don't even have a car let alone need a Lamborghini for groceries.
But it would be nice for once just to step on the pedal of one and hear it roar. If you know what I mean BIG GRIN
I don't think the Mac Pro will ever have USB-A again but surprise me.
Also, I've always been curious what the process for upgrading to new OS versions on a Hackintosh is like. Is it expected that once you get the machine in a working state, you are better off not to touch it?
Then moved to Linux in 2013, never needed to go back.
Note: I need High Sierra because I use this particular machine for music production, and the latest Logic Pro X requires High Sierra, and all of my collaborators have updated so I can't open tracks originated by them anymore.
At the cost you've stated, your Ubuntu machine will fly, even compared to the Mac. Most often, even at half the cost, you'll end up with most use cases covered on Ubuntu
The content companies had giant advertising campaigns trying to brand this as "theft" or "stealing". Of course, when they sued someone they used the proper term: "IP violation"
I'm not arguing if it's acceptable or not, but it's not the same as theft which leaves the owner without the item.
Look at it this way if I steal your trade secrets and clone your product after you spent R&D money on it I’ve essentially “stolen” both a part of your revenue and your investment.
Music, film and games cost money to develop and produce pirating them does incur a financial penalty and that does fall under the common definition of theft.
However as far as Apple goes if you buy a copy of their OS you can easily consider that acceptable since EULA restrictions on the usage can be ethically counter argued.
I really hope you're not right about this, but unfortunately it seems all too likely. Linux will finally win on the desktop not because it finally starts listening to potential users and making things better, but because everyone else just stops making desktops.
Of course those of us on this site are members of the Hacker Class. Putting our own house in order might involve writing code, but meaninful contributions can come in the form of bug reports or even just using software and occasionally writing something about how you use it.
Also, the font color on this blog is absolutely horrible.
Yeah, I've noticed more sites do this. Super annoying. I made this bookmark for those cases:
javascript:(()=>{document.querySelectorAll("p,div,article,section,ul,ol,li").forEach(x=>{x.style["color"]="black";});})();I don’t find the “theft” argument compelling, because Apple doesn’t even sell OSX anymore. They’re a hardware company.
You mean like, a PS/2 keyboard or what are you on about? Any bluetooth or usb keyboard works on any regular mac.
> - macOS gets more iOS-ified with each release and some people don’t like that
Again, what are you on about? A hackintosh is running a just as ios-ivied macOS as a regular mac.
I believe GP refers to the crapboards in the recent MacBook Pro lineup, which are amazingly bad. Also, IIRC Apple doesn't offer a real wired keyboard anymore.
>I look at it another way. Apple, as a company is failing to meet the needs of some of its users:
I don't see how the two perspectives are related, unless you think a company failing to meet your needs as a consumer is a valid reason to steal from said company.
Absolutely. Here, here.
I don't feel a moral obligation not to steal from Apple. I'm not sure I could steal (and use) an amount from them that would impact them at all. I mean even if I stole a classroom full of MacBook pro's in order to give free programming classes - it's not like it would affect Apple in any meaningful way.
But I don't quite get why anyone would go out of their way to get hw they'll never be able to run legally licensed os on. For fun and learning, sure. Turn your linux/bsd box into a hackintosh by dual booting. But you can never do any work on it without risk. So what's the point?
Sure you can "buy" a copy of os x - but you only get install media and a license to run on Apple hw.
What risk is that?
For the more "power users" who prefer to customise things to a fine degree and make particular choices a typical user doesn't want/need, Apple products aren't always the right option.
window management:
Turn off all the window edge snapping. Put up with single pixel borders, windows not saving their monitor, size and position. Put up with the single tab at the top of the window eating up screen space. Put up with a few other minor annoyances due to bugs in Xfce.
make keybindings the same in all apps:
alias x='/usr/bin/setxkbmap -option ctrl:swap_lalt_lctl'
Uninstall a lot of other crap I don't need or want. I should switch to another leaner distro (ie. no systemd), but it has taken a lot of effort to get to a system that works well for my needs despite all my preferences from using Mac OS X for so long. I don't think I could use a more recent version of what is now macos.
My new company is a Windows shop, and I'm actually finding it surprisingly pleasant—to the point that I'm seriously considering using Windows 10 full-time for personal use as well. I don't come to this decision lightly: I'd been anti-"M$" for a number of years, to the point of writing a paper in high school advocating for them to be broken up (back around year 2000).
Looking at the trajectory of recent OS releases from my experience:
- Linux: Still tends to lag behind a bit in hardware compatibility (as is expected), but quite pleasant to use—especially when staying on the stable/LTS releases.
- MacOS: Not sure if I can identify the last release that actually made my life easier.
- Windows: I see a fair amount of real innovation, and they seem committed to reducing paper cuts.
If you care about privacy and control, Win10 introduces many, many paper cuts.
And I do not consider spending a weekend (or longer) to get my sound chip working fun any more. I am too old for that stuff. Maybe I just have a lucky hand picking hardware, but except for the nVidia driver, hardware has just worked(tm) for me.
Don't get me wrong, if you are happy on macOS, by all means, enjoy it. But the old cliche that getting hardware to work on GNU/Linux is not true these days.
But I do agree, macOS without the tight integration between hardware and OS seems pointless.
That's only true if you make a point of buying hardware you already know there's linux drivers for. I work with a few headless linux boxes, but not a GUI. Every year or two I try a distribution or two on whatever hardware I have, hit a problem, sigh after reading through numberless blog/SO/reddit posts contradicting each other on what's possible, and abandon the attempt.
I have a 2018 Dell XPS 15. From what I've read, there's only an 'experimental' (ugh) driver for the fingerprint scanner. To switch between integrated/GPU graphics, you have to log in and out (or you don't - depending on who you read). Not sure about the touchscreen, but I can't summon the motivation to find out. So much depends on fiddling, experimenting, and reading. I'd rather go for a run, and put up with Windows (which I loathe, but loathing seems to be a precondition of computer use in 2018).
The first few months with Linux were fun as I played around and discovered what I could and couldn't do to wreck an install. Zero hardware-related problems.
And then I put multi distros on this generic i-5 box. And left them alone. Zero cares for years. All hardware covered. Xubuntu 18.04 boots from my SSD in under 5 seconds.
I suppose you might have given up at just the time all those problems were going away.
Stick with one of the Ubuntu flavors, or Linux Mint, or MX17, and the likelihood, these days, is that there'll be few problems. Unless, of course, Linux won't run some needed software.
Also mac gui thing is bit more stable than linux windows managers but after a time it will manifest bugs that you will only be able to get rid of by fresh install of the whole system.
Also don't be surprised when you copy folder onto the folder of same name. If source folder has less files then target one, the files missing in source will get deleted from target. On Mac sometimes copy means delete.
Parent comment was simply saying that macOS on Apple hardware doesn't require maintenance, and if the poster was interested in an OS that did then Linux would be better than macOS on a Hackintosh.
As much as I try to maintain a fair and balanced point of view, that is a pretty low standard to meet. I work as a sysadmin at a windows shop (~75 clients), and I regularly have to deal with stuff that would make run away screaming if my trusty old GNU/Linux desktop gave me that kind of trouble. Handling updates for Windows alone is enough to send grown women and men into hysterical laughter. And then you look at license management for their server software, and you think you must have fallen asleep and woken up in some Kafkaesque nightmare[0].
[0] I am told vendors like SAP or Oracle are much worse. But still, Microsoft's licensing schemes are pretty ____ing insane.
Oh and I also made the mistake of going from Final Cut 7 to Final Cut X. To be fair, I did edit two complete videos before going back to 7 and eventually ditching Final Cut entirely. FCX is terrible.
Shortly after I started running Linux in a VM and got into i3/tiling window managers. Every iteration of macOS has gotten worse and worse.
If you really like macOS, then maybe it's worth it to run a hackintosh. I run Win 10 for games and video editing and Linux for absolutely everything else.
Frankly, I can get the same or better hardware in a Thinkpad, which was designed with actual users in mind rather than aesthetics, is more durable, has better battery life, still has a real keyboard, is still upgradeable and repairable, and also for less money.
I have loved Macs all my life, but they have been coasting hard on reputation over delivery for awhile now.
I must be neckbearding, because from an objective standpoint, it doesn't make any damn sense. Swappable batteries (on some models), universally better keyboards (at the very least, more robust!), usually far cheaper for far better internals, ability to swap hardware out, before-market and after-market customization options...
This whole "but it just works" thing doesn't make sense to me, because my latest job gave me a macbook pro and it didn't "just work" - desktop config was weird (fullscreen opens in some random ass place and desktop locations were completely randomly assigned), nothing was configurable like I wanted, I couldn't dual boot well (windows/ubuntu on my thinkpad)... No yea, I am definitely neckbearding here, my argument basically boils down to "but it's not Linux wah!"
And specifically about the Mac hardware - I agree MacBooks are the best available, especially the touchpads. But Linux doesn't really support my 2016 MacBook Pro, so I have to use the XPS to run Linux.
I have a crazy powerful desktop, better than any mac hardware I could buy, so that I can run all the different things I want in a VM. I can kind of run a MacOS vm, but the performance is garbage. I just want to be able to run all the operating systems on a single machine, so I can not be limited. Is that too much to ask?
I've used and still used linux a lot but it can be a pain. Much of the desktop linux software is lacking that extra 10% of polish, there are always little annoyances. And nothing pains me more than needing to load up a QT app in my Gnome environment.
I tried switching to Linux, but so many parts of my workflow I was making compromises on. (for instance, I prefer Tower for git and Transmit for S3) Multi-monitor was a headache.
Compared to this Linux isn't all that bad. Took me a bit to find the magic xrandr invocation that would allow me to manage screen pseudo-brightness sanely. If I can find out the right way to put together a f.lux-style Night Mode I may switch to Linux on all machines.
Not with the latest round of laptops it isn't. One spec of dust and it's toast. But, yes it used to be and on older MBPros it's amazing. I've abused the hell out of mine and it's still going, minus a couple screwholes in the base no longer holding and some dents. Given the abuse, that's amazing.
To you. To others (like me) the biggest appeal was the only even vaguely usable & consistent OS, supported by nice hardware. Now they have replaced the nice hardware with thin-and-light toys with fake keyboards, we're in a bind.
> It seems to me that a Hackintosh is the worst of both worlds. If you spend that much time hacking around the hardware anyways, why not use Linux ?
Quite, I agree. I don't want to futz with either hardware or software, so have gone for a Windows laptop. Windows is profoundly horrible, but it does work for me without having to mess around. We really have reached the point in 2018 where there literally are no good options. Just least-worst for the task at hand.
Seems like the author depended on MacOS for their workflow?
If you need desktop power, anything Apple sells right now is out. iMac Pro included, because of lack of storage (for my particular needs at least).
I obviously don't know your particularly needs, and gather there's something I'm missing here — are there e.g. throughput issues with external SSDs? — so I'm curious to learn why my assumption is wrong!
What do you mean? A few examples would be helpful. I am not a frequent Windows user but my impressions, mostly confirmed by seeing other people comment online, is that Windows 7 was the "zenith of Windows UX", with a major step back due to "tabletization" with Windows 8 and partial return to glory with Windows 10.
The fact that some apps are designed for touch and look ridiculous on a desktop (calculator), others exist in two forms (the control panel) only makes Windows 10 more confusing, not less.
The things I miss the most about macOS on my Dell XPS 15 9570 are certain Mac-exclusive software products such as Apple Keynote, OmniOutliner, and OmniGraffle. But I still have my Mac Pro and my iPad for these apps.
More broadly, I think that OSX has been moving backwards while Windows has been moving forwards. It's purely subjective, but I think that OSX has an increasing number of nasty and persistent bugs. Windows is an inherently more complex platform, but Microsoft just seem to care more about software quality and the developer experience. VS Code is emblematic of what's happening within Microsoft - it's the best new text editor in recent years, it's freely licensed in full and the dev team are highly responsive to feedback and bug reports.
Windows is still occasionally quite annoying and has gained a few new annoyances with the move towards touch, but the proportion of stuff that Just Works seems to improve with every major update. My current dev machine has been running Windows 10 since launch without a reinstall or a BSOD. I'd probably be running Ubuntu if I didn't need a few key pieces of proprietary software, but using Windows really isn't much of a hardship. I loathed XP and 7, but I cheerfully tolerate Windows 10. It's not my dream OS, but it has never ruined my day.
The operating system came out 9 years ago. Windows 8 was a massive misstep but they've righted the ship somewhat with 10.
There's two control panels bit in each update more functionality moves into the Windows 10 style control panel.
The calculator is just a flat styled application not sure why it's rediculus. But tbh I use Google, Excel or Wolfram to do my calculations rather than that app.
Features that Windows 10 has for usability. Well there's multiple desktops, small things like built in f.lux.
It's nice that you can set a device specific pin for your account. Though having a cloud based account like Android or iPhone may upset some.
Also there's excellent touch screen support as a lot of laptops these days support it. Unloke OSX. Sometimes it's just better to scroll using your hands.
There's a lot of things under the hood that make it faster and more secure.
There are downsides like Random reboots for updates.
A 2010 or newer Mac Pro would allow you to run the latest macOS version.
And by the way, if you need to build Android source code more often than once a month, you need AWS anyway.
Apple hardware also has problems, yet people use them as their primary computer all the time.
Of course, there is a slightly higher risk with Hackintosh than a proper apple computer. But if your computer uptime and data is very important, the solution is having a proper backup. Having apple hardware won't make things marginally better.
I will be willing to bet that the ratio of apple hardware problems to general hackintosh problems is heavily geared in favour of opting for Apple hardware.
When computer uptime is important, having backups is a non-issue in that conversation. It's the uptime that's important, and having non-genuine hardware will always raise a flag in this scenario.... The chance of your genuine mac not starting up after a scheduled update is far, far less likely than your hackintosh not starting up after the same update.
Granted, it's awesome that you've had good experiences. But I feel that you need to consider that your use-case is possibly not the same as the vast majority.
So like a linux dist-upgrade then? :)
I never had any issues with minor releases with Sierra or High Sierra.
In that sense every computer is "unsupported hardware" for Linux, so I dunno. (Except maybe some rare purpose-made machines that tend to be expensive anyways..)
Just out of curiousity, did you spend much time tweaking the VM? Out of the box, for example, a Debian VM on my fast hardware does not perform very well. However, if I tweak the amount of RAM it gets (not too much, not too little, juuuuust right), the number of processors, amp up the video memory, try switching on/off 3d acceleration, and mess around with the actual Debian settings as well, I now have near perfect performance on it.
There's usually big threads out there on stackoverflow and forums with performance tips for your given host/guest/VM software.
For my particulars, I need about a gazillion VMs on local storage. They're not accessed often enough to pay thousands for enough SSD, and the iMac(Pro) only has space for one anyway (4 Tb won't cut it). So I need at least one spinny disk in addition to the system SSD. I am not willing to put said disks on thunderbolt, usb 3.14159 or whatever, I want them inside the case.
I mean I can work with it, no problem. Especially if you pay me to use it. But the user exists to support the system, not the other way around.
I don't use Arch as my daily driver anymore, I've switched to NixOS(has its issues as well, but at least no rolling release model)
These users would be paying them the say zero dollars right now either way but they would no longer be potential future customers.
What would they gain by this?
Well, sure, but where's the victory in using something you don't like (the situation that peatmoss (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17709084) describes) for free? Sure, it's better than using something you don't like and paying for it, but (1) you're still investing time and effort, if not money, and (2) it seems better still just not to use the thing you don't like.
- You like Mac OS after modifying it to counter its Iosification but don't want to support a company that makes you jump to those hoops, or
- You actually like Mac OS but oppose Apple's tendency to restrict their user's freedom on principle.
Using a hackintosh just because you don't like Apple would be pointless, of course.
I had the same experience with my 2015 Dell XPS 13... a few annoying quirks for the first month (mainly trackpad) which the combined efforts of Dell and the community quickly solved. Since then it has been rock solid. I used it for 3.5 years and only upgraded to the new XPS15 to get more RAM.
> So much depends on fiddling, experimenting, and reading.
How about not stressing about it now? My approach this time round is to not spend my own time fiddling with it. I'm going to wait patiently for others to figure it all out and get their fixes into upstream distribution. As my main problem is with GPU switching, I've got plenty of non-GPU projects to do in the meantime...
P.S. If you do want gpu switching on the XPS15, check out this repo:
Well that's what I'm doing by using Windows. I don't like it, but it doesn't consume any of my time - even after not having used Windows for many years, I was productive on my new machine within an hour. Windows is a mess compared to OS X, but a fairly productive one for me.
I haven't had time to try a Linux install on this machine yet, but have set aside some SSD space for doing so at some point. I have to say though from past experience, I'm not optimistic that it will ever be more than an experiment.
We use WSUS for updates, and barely have to touch it?
Again I don't have any problem with licensing. I tell a reseller what I want and review their response. No big deal?
So do we. But I have encountered my fair share of cases where an update to Windows or Office broke some third-party application. Once, and update for Office 2007 failed to register properly (but only on two machines), so after the reboot, Windows Update wanted to install that update again, followed by a reboot, etc. Once, an update to Office broke Autodesk Inventor, and reinstalling inventor subsequently broke Outlook. And don't get me started on Siemens SIMATIC/WinCC software. I have seen Office 2013 cease working spontaneously (again, only on a few select machines, and only a full reinstall fixed the issue), I have seen a certain revision of the AV software we use cause Windows 8.1 to crash regularly (literally: every 24 hours, the same time of day).
During my training at a large IT company, I heard they had a team whose entire job was to install and test updates to Windows and third-party applications and test if they broke something. I used to think they were a bunch a wimps, but after a couple of years as a Windows admin, I envy them for having the resources to do that kind of testing. My strategy is to wait for a couple of days after updates become available, check a couple of forums if anybody complains about stuff breaking and then release the updates that I consider safe.
> I tell a reseller what I want and review their response. No big deal?
Have you ever had to deal with, say, per-CPU vs. per-user licensing for SQL Server? Or consider whether to use a plain old license vs. software assurance? Maybe using GNU/Linux or BSD on my private machines has spoiled me, but I always wonder if MS wants to annoy their customers or if they just want to screw them over.
I am not sure if we are doing something wrong or if you are lucky. But I am glad that I do more programming than sysadmin tasks these days.
When windows 8.1 came out, we stayed on Windows 7. When Windows 10 came out, we stayed on Windows 7. We downgraded each new machine to Windows 7. Last year we gave a power user Windows 10 to find out how it operated with our collection of third party software. Two more were added over the year. A year later we are rolling out Windows 10 across the estate. I think this is the answer, we run a conservative strategy with regards to OS versions. We went from XP, to 7 and then to 10 and skipped all of the experimental versions. don't get me wrong, I tried them all, I installed Windows 10 on my laptop the day it was available, but not on my domain...no way.
We let WSUS install critical updates when it wants to. I don't install much else without a good reason. AV updates have caused a few freezes that have meant a couple of reboots are in order, but not much else.
I use Kubuntu and Ubuntu server and I have had some really annoying update issues with them too. I used to have an Apple laptop that after updates would disable it's own wifi and need a reboot.
> Have you ever had to deal with, say, per-CPU vs. per-user licensing for SQL Server?
No, but if I did it would be licensed once and then stay the same for years. I do have Oracle, like you mentioned before. That has a very quirky license, but that hasn't left me anything to do for 3 years since it moved server. It did 7 years on the old server!
I think one of the secrets of enterprise IT is conservative versioning, "n-1 is the version you want", I was told some years ago. A normal PC at our place would be running Windows 7, ERP client, browsers, and Office 2010. A number run Adobe cc and other things I can't avoid. We are looking at moving to Office 365, but if we instead re-buy Office 2016 we will stick with it for years. Perhaps that is the secret? It seems like you are unable to run this conservatively in your environment?
In other words, there has to be some reason that they don't see it as stealing but do see it as a failure by Apple to meet the needs of it's consumers. That reason is the relationship between the two concepts and I don't understand what that relationship is.
I read their argument as "some people say it's immoral to run a hackintosh, but I think it's not immoral because Apple isn't providing their consumers with a valid alternative".
I don’t really care one way or the other about the stealing question, because this other argument against hackintoshes is more compelling to me.
> Every Hackintosh continues to add momentum to that platform ecosystem, enriching it so that Apple can continue on more or less as they want.
I use Linux (and OpenBSD occasionally) these days, and I do so in part so that I can sometimes be the guy who sands off a rough corner or two. Even by using the platform and occasionally submitting bug reports, you’re enriching a platform that may be the last un-nerfed general purpose computing platform standing.
With WSL, I've been able to run Linux-based dev and build tools and Windows IDEs at the same time on source stored in the Windows world with no issues.
On the other hand, it's true that you can't / shouldn't modify files on the Linux file system (i.e. Files outside of /mnt/...) in Windows itself since the Linux-specific concepts would get mangled. With the mounts though, there shouldn't be any need to do this.
Wouldn't leaving a bad review of a bad product be considered theft under this definition?
Of course, just like with piracy, it would not provable that the revenue was guaranteed in the first place. But companies would absolutely try and litigate over it anyway.
I suppose this discussion is unrelated to this thread, though.
You can’t steal something from somebody if they still have it after the “theft” (the IP) or if they never had it in the first place (the revenue).
And in any case you are arguing about semantics, "theft" is also technically not a singular legal definition but an amalgamation of different civil and criminal legal statues.
In most jurisdictions intangible property also does fall under the broader definition of theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft
A key term is intent to deprive, hence most people nicking a car will be done for taking without consent - no need to prove an intent to permanently deprive.
Copyright infringement is a whole separate law and is clearly not theft as there's no intent to permanently deprive.
I don't know that I could argue that your opinion is mainstream, at least not here.
> 2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions. A. Preinstalled and Single-Copy Apple Software License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you obtained the Apple Software from the Mac App Store, through an automatic download or under a volume license, maintenance or other written agreement from Apple, you are granted a limited, non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer at any one time. For example, these single-copy license terms apply to you if you obtained the Apple Software preinstalled on Apple-branded hardware.
(...)
> J. Other Use Restrictions. The grants set forth in this License do not permit you to, and you agree not to, install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so.
(...)
If you're not going to abide by the license, you're essentially running "pirated" software.
The license is strange - but it is what Apple is selling.
And AFAIK the latest release is a "free" (gratis) download anyway - so you can't even claim you've paid for it.
I mean sure, you can ignore the license. Maybe Apple won't sue, but they might revoke your developer access, I loud account etc.
[ed: anyway, the thread started with a claim about "moral" obligation, I'm just pointing out that Apple is refusing to give or sell a valid license, so you're in breach of the license. I don't see how it's legally very different from an illegal copy of Microsoft Windows).]
Not saying it’s bad or not. I despise EULAs. I think that’s what the parent means, though.
They aren't particularly fragile anymore, it's been quite awhile since an update broke something major. Even the upgrade to High Sierra which switched to APFS went off without a hitch on my machine. The only thing I have to check on before upgrading is if nvidia's drivers are supported.
I built a hackintosh 2 years ago. It's been fantastic and required very little time to keep updated and running smoothly.
tonymacx86 is the go to place for checking on hardware compatibility for the most part. insanelymac tends to be more technical, it's where a lot of devs that make it all work hang out. You likely won't need insanelymac unless you are trying to get some poorly supported hardware working.
I should have noted in my previous comment but I purposely chose hardware for my build that I knew worked well. Things can get complicated if you are trying to make any random hardware work, although even that is much better than it used to be.
Case in point - I recently had a user who did all kinds of audio editing for foley sound effects and had organized them all into folders himself. When he switched to the Mac, we were using software that has a very iTunes-focused mentality and it imported all the sounds into a library. He could not get over the fact that everything was flat and that he couldn't view his folder structure and was so frustrated because he couldn't find anything. It took me days to get the point across to him that a library system was much more powerful than a strict hierarchy because he could tag sounds with multiple keywords instead of just relying on his memory to remember which folder he had put a particular clip in. It's now been about 6 months and he has converted so many people to the Mac just by showing them how he can search tags for "flute", "wood", and "horror" and get a listing instead of having to remember that it was in his "horror" folder and then inside the "flute" folder with some weirdly numbered filename.
It's so nice when the computer just gets out of the way and lets you worry about the work and not about futzing with everything in the background.
Right, so he had his workflow organized in a particular way that worked for him, but rather than allow him to work like that his computer forced him into a workflow management paradigm and then you told him it was better that way and he should just accept it.
> It's so nice when the computer just gets out of the way and lets you worry about the work and not about futzing with everything in the background.
I agree, I wish they'd actually do that in 2018.
Except that it didn't, at all, he'd just become used to it. It still took him 3x-4x as long to use the structure that he had devised as opposed to the "new" one. On top of that, a good majority of the sounds that he was using were already tagged via ID3 tags with descriptors so he wasn't even using tools that were available to him the whole time. I didn't tell him that it was better that way and that he should just accept it, you're assuming that. What I actually did was ask him to just trust me and the designers at Apple for 2 weeks and try using the system as it was intended. If it didn't work for him, I would teach him how to use it the way he was used to using it (the option is always available and it's not like MacOS forces you to do it that way).
It took him 3 days to agree that the library method that MacOS used was far more efficient and better suited to what he had been doing the whole time. Additionally, it opened up even more avenues for him because he could extend those same paradigms to video and actual music files (as opposed to audio/sound effect files).
>I wish they'd actually do that in 2018
I work as a developer in digital media production and I love my Macs because they do actually do exactly that. I literally never have to mess with the OS and can focus exclusively on getting my work done. The only exception to that rule is the rare case where I have to use Adobe tools. Some of them are just unstable, regardless of if you're running them on a Mac or PC.
Also, to stop any further assumptions or insinuations, I'm also a PC gamer and have extensive background in web development so I'm extremely familiar with both Windows and Linux (mostly CentOS and Ubuntu). My Mac is the only machine that actually gets out of the way and lets me work.
You can't opt out of strong opinionation when it comes to operating systems or applications in general, sadly.
I for one love tagging search systems, but still need folder structures for organization. I feel itchy when all my shit is just slopped into a single folder, especially when I need to work in the terminal for something.
I don't see the advantage, why would I pay the size / weight penalty? I don't use my machine long enough on battery in a single sitting to gain any benefit from extra batteries.
> universally better keyboards (at the very least, more robust!),
That is not an objective statement, its purely subjective.
> usually far cheaper for far better internals,
Not really, if you actually build a comparable machine the 'apple tax' doesn't even exist for many of their product, and is a couple hundred bucks for the rest. I spend a significant portion of my life on a computer, a couple hundred bucks means nothing. What you can do, and what usually happens when people do cost comparisons, is cheap out on some parts and come up with something considerably cheaper. That's fine, but it's no longer an apples to apples comparison and not a matter of Apple charging too much.
> ability to swap hardware out, before-market and after-market customization options...
Hardly anyone does this, even for desktops. I've been building my own PCs for ~20 years now. I remember the days of the 440BX chipset, when it came out you may have had a ~250Mhz cpu and 128MB of RAM, but just a couple years later you could toss a ~1Ghz PIII and multiple GB of ram it in cheaply. Thing is, that doesn't happen anymore. CPUs aren't advancing that fast and by the time you would want to upgrade the CPU there is a pretty good chance the new CPU requires a new chipset. RAM is also stagnant, we aren't seeing higher density or cheap prices (quite the opposite on prices actually, they have sky-rocketed). Point is, the last 3 PCs builds I've had are fully expandable and everything is swappable, yet the only component that has changed in any of them is the GPU. Expandability just isn't terribly important anymore.
How can you possibly say that when MBP keyboards are failing left and right from single grains of sand, while Lenovo keyboards are being lauded for their indestructibility by multiple hardware ratings sites?
> Hardly anybody does this
You seem to not, but I do regularly. I just last month stuck an SSD into an old laptop (which to be fair you can do for some macbook models), and my desktops regularly get upgraded piecemeal...
This is true in intel land, but AMD has kept compatible mobos for many, many cycles now. Ryzen is the first forced refresh, and I'd say you should be very willing to pay the extra to go from Bulldozer to Zen
Not really, AM3+ only supported Bulldozer and Piledriver. _Some_ AM3 boards could support these CPUs, but not all that many and only at certain TDPs. It's basically the same deal as intel, you get about 2 cycles per chipset, it's just that AMD didn't release anything new for quite a long time.
There's a series: X, T, P, and A. I really hate when companies do this (I also think Apple does this a bit too much). "Powerful mobile workstations" or "Renowned professional tools" doesn't really help me narrow things down. Trying to seek these out in person, retail stores like Best Buy or the Microsoft store carry between 1 to 3 models total.
I never got the appeal of swappable batteries. I had multiple batteries about 10 years ago (mostly because one was EOL and I kept it around). Since it had to charge in the laptop I had to remember to swap it to keep both charged. I looked at external chargers; if it existed it was too much money (a few hundred dollars). This sort of workflow makes sense in a professional environment, like a photographer on set all day. That's what is done with camera batteries, but is too much of a pain for someone who just wants a bit of freedom from a desktop. I had a lot of skepticism when Apple dropped the removable battery; their swappable batteries lasted 5 hrs when new and had something like 200 cycles. The non-removable batteries had 6-8 hrs, went up to 1000 cycles, and were about the same cost to replace (and it was just a matter of unscrewing the case).
Even though I didn't like the new Mac keyboards as much as the old ones, I liked the Thinkpad's keyboard even less--which is a fairly subjective choice. The trackpads I found on every non-Mac laptop was objectively worse.
Connectivity: I really like that it charges with USB-C (I was quick to eliminate laptops with proprietary charging), but that's the only USB-C port. I never really found a laptop with 1 USB-A and a couple USB-C ports. At least for my use-case multiple USB-C ports and carrying an adapter works well for me now and I expect adapter use to decline over the life of use.
I was looking at the X1, which had memory soldered on. The laptops in the same "class" as the Macbook pro (size and weight), the PC versions used the same chipset and had similar compromises...which also meant the prices were fairly similar.
If, for example, you're looking for a chunkier and heavier laptop with swappable parts Apple doesn't make that laptop, but if general, if you like most of the concessions, similar models aren't that much cheaper and don't really offer that much more.
I just checked the laptop I'm typing this on to confirm this.
I hope PC laptops keep getting better because I'll check them out again in 3-6 years when I look to buy another. I feel like the new laptop is worse than my previous one in a bunch of areas that Apple used to excel at; no LED when charging (I've already plugged it in to charge while the other end was not plugged into the wall), wake time is closer to what I'd expect from a cold boot with an SSD (around 10 seconds instead of 0-3), I really dislike the half-height arrow keys, and the camera has the exact same specs as my 2011 model.
Even if a judge agreed with Apple's EULA (unlikely, and unlikely to be tested), that's not really enforceable in any practical sense unless you're selling computers with MacOS preinstalled. Then it's a matter of commercial licensing and distribution which they do have an interest in protecting.
Ever noticed how people tend to drive at a speed that seems safe given conditions? Respect for ethics is a virtue respect for the law for its own sake is a disease.
His big realization was that he didn't actually care about how the files were organized so long as he could find the sounds he was looking for. He cared before because there wasn't any way to efficiently search for them by any meaningful method (finding "metallic" sounding effects, for example) and so he filed things away in folders so that he would only have to browse through a subsection of folders (in that case - materials->metals->metallic). Now he just searches the library for "metallic" and all the sounds come up and he can combine search terms for "loud metallic" or "warped metallic" or "wobbly metallic" and get exactly the sounds he's looking for.
It could just be your subjective experience, though! Aint nobody can come between a person and their feelings.
Take Linux for example. You can customize a ton to get your workflow exactly right if you really know exactly what you're doing. If you don't, though (and I'd argue that most people don't), it's a nightmare. One wrong step can take down the entire workflow completely.
How and in what universe? I'm not merely being flip I literally don't understand how having options leads to such disasters. In most linux distros for example you have a central settings menu much like the windows control center plus many apps have a settings menu for app specific settings.
If you check a box and things no longer work the way you expect it doesn't require magic to open the menu and uncheck the box or reset the app to default settings. Its rather difficult to do any real harm. Even mucking up a system so bad it can't boot is cause for booting up from a disk to fix the problem or reinstalling in an hour if that seems too challenging.
I'm not clear on how to parse "take down an entire workflow completely" into anything meaningful. Its like someone argued for a house with a single set of furniture glued down to the floor and discussed how houses where you could put any sort of furniture down anywhere could take down your breakfast routine completely as if billions of people weren't out there organizing their own kitchens and churning out meals all over the world.