Model 3 Mid Range Battery Available(3.tesla.com) |
Model 3 Mid Range Battery Available(3.tesla.com) |
Price $45,000
Incentives: -$7,500
Gasoline savings: -$4,300
Price after savings: $33,200
Destination & doc fee: $1,200
It's rather disappointing that for all the talk from Tesla about disrupting the way people buy cars they maintain nonsense practices like adding on destination and doc fees, and add new ones like working gasoline savings into the displayed price.
Perhaps if they want to advertise gas savings they should be forced to also add "increased home electricity costs".
"The average person drives between 10,000 and 15,000 miles and spends between $1,000 and $1,500 on gasoline per year. In comparison, the cost of electricity to power Model 3 over the same distance is up to three times lower. Over the six year average length of car ownership, that's between $4,300 and $6,400 in gasoline savings.
We've assumed a fuel economy of 28 miles per gallon for a comparable gasoline powered sedan, for example, the 2017 BMW 3 series. We've also assumed the national average of $0.13 per kilowatt-hour for electricity and $2.85 per gallon for premium gasoline over the next six years."
I guess bottled water then should be considered free since it's significantly healthier than drinking any else.
Or maybe my laptop should be considered free since it's used to earn money.
[1]: http://fortune.com/2018/10/12/tax-credit-tesla-deadline/
[1] https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/articles/destination-charges/
Because they aren't comparing to the TCO of other automobiles, they have to adjust the sticker price to help buyers consider the TCO.
Did Toyota include TCO in their hybrid car pricing given that it also reduces gas consumption? No.
Did Rolex include TCO in their watch pricing given that the resale value doesn't significantly depreciate ? No.
Nobody does this because it's intentionally deceptive.
I suspect they're finding the shipped hardware isn't enough to accomplish what they want with the necessary reliability. Elon has already hinted that shipped 3's will need a computer upgrade to support full self-driving. They are probably wisely backing off on guaranteeing full self-driving on hardware that hasn't been proven to succeed to specification.
Total speculation, but I'd bet a chocolate chip cookie that they'll find they need to make changes to the sensor array as well. (If I were designing this from scratch, I'd want a wide stereoscopic baseline between cameras for optical ranging. They have multiple cameras, but they are narrowly spaced, and may have fields of view that differ too much for stereoscopic fusion. I'd aim for "larger number of shittier/cheaper cameras.")
It's still available for the Model X and Model S. The disclosure when you pay for it is very clear. They are not acting sketchy when they sell it to you. I'd guess it has more to do with not enough people ordering it, so removing the option streamlines fulfillment.
> I suspect they're finding the shipped hardware isn't enough to accomplish what they want with the necessary reliability.
Yeah they already admitted to this. Anyone who has paid for full self driving is getting a Hardware 3.0 (HW3) upgrade for free. They said full self driving will require HW3.
> Total speculation, but I'd bet a chocolate chip cookie that they'll find they need to make changes to the sensor array as well.
Yeah, as an owner I'm pretty worried that will be the case but I guess we will see. I doubt they will admit to this publicly though - they seem adamant that the sensors today should be sufficient.
White paint is now $2k instead of $1500
White interior is now $1k instead of $1500
> Incentives - $10,000
> Gas Savings- $4,300
> Price after Est. Savings $30,700
This is good news, but it's still not the $35,000 model.
Also, what's the breakdown on the incentives? I thought the federal rebate was $7500 if they haven't run out of those yet. Are they including state rebates (which presumably aren't the same everywhere)?
Including "gas savings" in the price seems more than a little disingenuous.
Agree about the gas savings. That's totally low.
I assume the 35000 model is the "Standard Battery available in 4-6 months" that's below the options.
- Long range single motor: $49,000
- Long range dual motor: $54,000
- Long range performance: $64,000
Now it's:
- Mid range single motor: $45,000
- Long range dual motor: $54,000
- Long range performance: $64,000
So it looks like a savings of $4,000 off the older long range single motor.
With this change, they have now essentially replaced that model with one that has 50 mile less range.
Now the long range version looks so much less appealing as the price is now over $60k($5,000 more for entry LR) for an AWD upgrade I have absolute no use for.
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If someone approached me and offered to trade their mid-range + $3,500 for my long-range, I'd happily take that deal.
Long Range > Mid Range > Standard
Tesla's specific battery chemistry uses significantly less cobalt than the other common vehicle batteries
I might have to test drive one soon. My wife is strongly disapproving me getting a Roadster in a few years. If I find that 0-60 in 3.3 seconds is enough, I might settle for a Model 3.
EDIT: They also removed the option to purchase full self-driving. Interesting...
I test drove a 90D and the acceleration off the line is heart-stopping. And that is listed at 4.7s.
I'm worried that getting a car that does 0-60 in 3.3 would actually feel somewhat underwhelming considering that I'm, I guess "calibrated", for something quicker. Maybe I'd feel different though when I'm in control with the power at my command.
I'll probably test drive a Model 3 next year.
EDIT: $40k price since it seems that there will be a smaller battery than this. Seems like a good way to make more money when people wanting the smaller range battery get tired of waiting.
From Jan 1 to Jun 30, it'll be $41240 and from Jul 1 to Dec 31 2019, it'll be $43125. As of Jan 1 2020, there'll be no more federal tax credit and the car will be full price at $45000.
IMO their marketing probably leads customers to be more optimistic about the expected payout of their $x,000 investment than is justified. Though that is not necessarily deliberate deception, they may be unrealistically optimistic themselves.
Misleading marketing or not, I'd say it's sketchy in the sense that it's an over-promise. If they eventually have to face a reality where their hardware doesn't it cut it, they might be on the hook for thousands of customers' respective thousands of dollars of pre-orders, which is a huge capital liability. Quite possibly 10 figures.
These days you can buy it either way, so it's more obvious.
But yeah it was weird in other countries when you would see “Thing X costs $Y” and everyone would do the $Y * exchange rate and say “why is it so much cheaper there”. Then you come to America and discover that the advertised price excludes compulsory fees and taxes. All American companies do this, and I would argue it is unethical, and should be illegal, but I don’t have the billions of dollars needed to buy a law.
Transport is typically supply-led.
For roads, more roads encourage more drivers, and more drivers congest the system, leading to marginal overall improvement - there are only so many cars that can travel a stretch of road in any given period of time.
While with public transport there are also only so many buses/trains that can travel a stretch of road/rail at a time, we are typically well short of saturation - outside of some of the densest metros, there is often capacity for increasing the number of services. Investment in these forms of transport increases frequency and reliability, and simplifies connections. The 'downside' is that this increased efficiency tends to attract more users to the public transport system - which yes, means imperfect reduction of crowding, but still significantly improved throughput.
Also, the people on public transport are not 'random strangers', they are members of your community.
Re carrying, as a sibling comment says: backpack. Alternatively one of those granny trolleys. Plus, many buses/trains intended for longer transport (c.f. commuting) have luggage racks.
Roads allow more people to do what they want to do. If we can eliminate the bad things about individually controlled transport (road noise, inefficient petroleum based power, huge parking lots, etc) why should we not let people have this great thing they desire. Are you anti-democratic?
Driving is not free. It takes time and money for gas and wears out your vehicle. People don't (generally) just drive around for the hell of it, especially at commute times when the roads a most full.
"the people on public transport are not 'random strangers', they are members of your community"
This I think is the main reason some people want public transportation to be mandatory. Somehow being forced to be with other people (who are all on their phones, desperately pretending no one else exists) is a good thing? Standing up for 40 minutes packed, hot, and smelly. Occasionally aggressive beggars; homeless people who stink up the entire train car sleeping; mentally ill people yelling at the ether, etc. Not all the time but at least once a month if you are a commuter. I guess it is a cool experience to have to see how the other half live, but a some point many people don't desire such things.
"backpack"
For the human race to continue, each couple must have greater than 2 children. Try taking 3 children under the age of ten by your self, walking to a bus stop, getting on the bus, getting on BART, walking to the doctors appointment, and then back again. Basically impossible.
You'd kill yourself and become Tesla's PR problem.
I dunno, I find it dishonest. Any electric vehicle shopper knows that gasoline is a major cost-driver and reason to buy electric instead.
The Chevy Volt is currently $33,520. Then gets a $7500 Federal Credit (and unlike Tesla, Chevy hasn't run out yet. If your Tesla 3 is delivered in January 2019, you only get $3750 in credits). AND it mostly won't use gasoline (50-mile all-electric range == good enough to not use gasoline in over 99% of my expected drives)
It almost wants me to walk into a Tesla showroom and show them their press release and say "I'll take the $33,200 model. Here is my check."
The back pedaling and hand waving would be entertaining.
The Volt, BMW i3, and basically any other car with a range extender periodically run the engine in "maintenance mode", because it's good to circulate fluids, burn off some gas, and take some load off the battery for a while.
If you need to store a car for more than a month, you should top off and add a bottle of fuel stabilizer before driving home.
It appears that the Volt will detect the gasoline going bad (or at least, puts it on a timer and then assumes), and forcibly burn it off roughly once a year. Before doing so, it encourages you to use a bit of gas.
To be honest: this is the first link from a search engine. So its not an issue I've looked into very strongly. Nonetheless, it seems like GM has already figured out a procedure for "stale gas" issues.
https://forum.quartertothree.com/t/volt-gas-goes-stale/69063
So it seems to be a timer of some sorts, roughly on the order of ~once a year or so.
EDIT: I found a video on youtube showing the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEe4Rkg4GfA
The author of the video notes that you can drive the Volt just fine. He just had a camera handy and stay'd in his garage in this case however.
* Keep the tank full of gas: air space is prone to condensation
* Avoid ethanol-added gasoline, it's more hypro-philic
* Add a fuel stabilizer (like 1 fl oz per 5 gallon)
* live in California, it's really dry.
These are adapted from techniques for winter storage of cars.
Engine Maintenance mode: haven't used the gas engine in some period (month?) so it uses the engine for a small period of time (less than my 12 mile commute) so get the engine oil moving.
Fuel maintenance mode: doesn't let average age of gas be over a year. i.e. I filled my tank August 30, 2017 from basically empty. On Aug 29, 2018 it went into fuel maintenance mode and even though I had a full battery, it would only use gas. I was probably around 1 gallon left, I filled it up, so expect around june 2019, it will go into fuel maintenance mode again unless I finish off the tank and fill it up again.
Is electricity in Canada generally cheaper than in the states?
And the Tesla wall unit also costs $500. Is that included in the price of the car?