Project Fi Is Now Google Fi(fi.google.com) |
Project Fi Is Now Google Fi(fi.google.com) |
I've been on Fi for years and highly recommended it.
This service seems very niche and only for international travellers.
T-Mobile One is actually unlimited, though they say they will deprioritize your traffic if you use a lot of data. This is still better than some other vendors that start to actually throttle you down to 3G speeds. Also, T-Mobile's tethering is not throttled, unlike some other vendors (e.g. Verizon's "gounlimited").
Last I checked you could still get their cheaper "Simple Choice" prepaid plan for $40/mo, but that's very limited data-wise, something like 2 or 3GB.
If you use small amounts of data Fi is cheaper. Most of my bills are under $30.
Currently paying $140 on T-Mobile for 4 unlimited lines with unlimited international 3G roaming (good enough for maps and music) and other misc. benefits (half-off phones, free Netflix, unlimited in-flight wi-fi).
If it is a family plan, does this affect just the user who exceeded the 15gb limit or does data get throttled for all users in the plan.
I am in [redacted] and my 50GB mobile data (unlimited calls and texts) is part of my €55/month home internet package (which includes 1Gbit fiber internet, land line and a TV box + package not that I care for that).
America has crazy expensive prices for mobile plans!
What is the Google Fi of France? Of Germany? Of India?
If Google grabs location data without clear warnings, explicit opt-ins, or an easily ability to opt-out that is immoral.
Contrast that with something like Fi where the fact it is a Google run cellphone network is front and center, so to sign up active consent is very much required.
People just want a choice. Nobody is forcing anyone to use Fi, but people feel like they cannot escape Google's privacy violations in other areas.
That’s like saying, FB has told consumers it is using their data in exchange for the use of FB, so it’s open season on that data set.
As a community that understands many of the implications of Google having this relationship with consumers, in addition to those relationships made possible by Google’s other products, I would expect for HN readers to sound the alarm at least a little.
If Google has your transit info (maps + Waymo) and your email, and your browsing (chrome + cookies), and your financial (purchased through brokers and banks + wallet), and knowledge about your relationships (email and photo analysis), and lord knows what else, you’re gonna sit here and tell me “if people sign up for it that’s their choice”..?
Google is building a censored search engine for China. Think about that.
Think about that. Seriously.
Their effin mission statement is “to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful”.
The same company that is censoring information, in direct conflict with their own mission statement, and thereby empowering authoritarian governments now has alllllll that data about you.
No one can know what will happen when you give a corporation that much insight into and control of your life. No one can give active consent.
If you use a non-Fi native device it won't support Sprint (T-Mobile only) and fast switching from WiFi to cellular is disabled.
It might have limitations but at least it is officially supported. People have already been using non-supported devices on Fi with these same limitations, it was just technically forbidden.
Fi really is a great network, I doubt it would ever happen but I still hope that cost per GB might fall a little in time. I am pleased they added the data ceiling/unlimited after 6 GB.
Though had I bothered to go through the whole passport photo/scan 24hr submission process for Airtel it would have been way cheaper.
It seems completely out of whack to me.
For comparison, I have 20GB + unlimited call/texts for 10e/month, with optional 2e/GB recharges, and that's not even the cheapest available offer
More expensive for high data users, but less expensive for low data users. Flexibility is really king here, if 9 months of the year you use < 1 GB/month ($30/month) but want the option to have much more (e.g. emergency) and international travel, full speed hotspot, then it may be for you.
As to "why is the US/Canada so expensive?" Urban areas subsidies rural cellular. The US is hugely populated on the East and West coasts and a cellphone network that only targeted those population centers would be as cheap or even cheaper than Europe. But most networks are deploying LTE to middle-America where there are few people, and most cellular infrastructure loses money.
Networks have tried doing cellphone networks that only work within New York State, California, or Texas for example but people want the hypothetical ability to travel on the open road whenever and wherever they want.
I pay less money for access to more data in America then my American family does.
20 GBP is about $25 USD. T Mobile US is offering 50GB LTE at $70 per month. Adjusting your 15GB to that nets you $83 per month. T Mobile also offers free call/text/data roaming as well to dozens of other countries as part of the plan.
I basically travel non-stop. And wherever I land, I receive a message.
"Welcome to India we got you covered"
"Welcome to Russia we got you covered"
"Welcome to China we got you covered"
"Welcome to France we got you covered"
"Welcome to Uganda we got you covered"
I can live with 10 US$/GB
* the $10/GB quote is pay as you go - unused data does not magically expire at the end of the billing cycle. While one can probably find a better promotional deal with a US carrier, those unclaimed gigabytes are unlikely to "roll over" to the next month.
* the rate is valid for any of Fi's international partners across 170 countries. Other US operators are likely to hit the user with roaming charges for voice + data
Being able to land or drive into a country and have LTE working without having to do anything is amazing, especially when going through several countries.
Some places have seriously screwy cell pricing, signing up to this would be cheaper for data.
I pay, I think, $40/mo for 6GB with no phones and then $25/line to add unlocked phones. so I guess $90/6GB? I'm FAR from being on the cheapest plan in the world, but Google's plan starts at $35 for the same 2 lines, with NO data, then $10/GB?
So this groundbreaking new plan would be $5 more than I pay, and I ALREADY am sure I'm overpaying because I don't shop around.
I live in France, I'm subscribed to the most expensive operator (Orange), and even then I get unlimited call/text and 10 Gigabytes of data (in 4G) for less than 25 € per month (~roughly 28 dollars).
These prices look like a joke to me, but it might be a US thing.
There was rumors of free mobile acquiring T-Mobile sometime last year, that would have been awesome for US consumers...
That same 20€/mo plan gives 25GB of data to use abroad, which makes project fi a less interesting option in France.
If you don't use much data, the price can be a good deal.
If you use a lot of data, other US carriers offer much better deals.
I end up spending ~$35-40/mo on average with peace of mind of unlimited data. The charge also caps out at 6GB I think so the max bill is $80 or something like that.
They cap the $10/GB at 6, so it's effectively an unlimited talk/text/data plan for $80/month which is about average in the US.
Additional data is $10/GB, and doesn’t expire. There is no point where it switches to unlimited like google fi.
I can choose the same three networks as Fi, but can’t roam between them.
Overall, Fi seems kinda overpriced, at least for me, because the monthly cost is so high (for unlimited voice and texts I don’t need).
It is way better than any of the “big three” cell plans though.
T-Mobile has unlimited data for $40/line for 4 lines, if everyone uses at least 2 GB that makes more sense.
It's the same in Canada: a Rogers data only plan is $60 CAD for first 5GB and $20 CAD for each 10GB after that...
I don't know why cellphone service is so expensive in the US, but it seems difficult to find anything cheaper than $20 a month. Typical plans here for a single user and ~10gb of data is going to be $40-$60 a month.
I suspect size has a lot to do with it. The US is the 3rd largest country in the world. Sure, Canada is bigger but at almost 1/10th the people and I suspect the country has far less coverage than the US.
Just look at coverage maps for the US then keep in mind how many square miles you're looking at and you can easily think "yeah, that can be expensive".
Yeah, they're pocketing a lot of profit and mostly relying on government funding to expand their networks but still, I just don't think we could go as cheap as laces like India.
The way the FCC handles spectrum also doesn't help.
To make proper comparisons on prices paid between countries, you need to consider income levels in the country in question, not just the price unto itself.
Works in 100+ countries for that price. I have Fi but live in Canada and travel and work in the US. Canadian phone plans are even more expensive and US roaming can add $30+ a month to a plan. Fi gives me $10/GB in Canada where I use very little data (work from home so always on wifi) and then $10/GB in the US without extra roaming options.
There is a data bill cap at $60 or 6GB of data. Once you hit $60 you still get full speed data up to 15GB then it throttles down.
$10/GB is great for variable data use. Some months I use 500MB so the bill is cheap. Other months I hit 4GB, bill is more but then I dont have to pay for data I am not using.
No charge data only SIM cards. I have three extra SIM cards that cost me nothing. One for an LTE hotspot, one for my wifes iPhone while in the US and a third that I will use for a backup LTE connection. They cost me nothing but the data used.
I don't mean to seem paranoid, but with the current hype around Google's tumultuous relationship with "Don't be evil", I'm not sure I want them having that data on me too.
The only advantage I see is the use of 3 networks(for those who live in places with bad coverage).
You're calculating the prices based on hitting the data ceiling on Fi every month, if you are hitting the ceiling that often then you shouldn't be on Fi. T-Mobile's family offering is likely better value for true unlimited.
In general I agree Fi isn't great for families, because kids often consume a ton of data. It might be good for a spouses if both parties don't use much data.
Does Google Fi offer plans for groups or families?
Yes. If you’re new to Google Fi, you can set up a group plan during your checkout process. Just have the intended plan owner click “Join Fi” to get started.
Just like an individual plan, each month you’ll pay $20 for unlimited talk and text, then add $15 for each additional person. Data costs the same at $10 for each GB used.
If you’re already a part of Google Fi you can invite people to your plan here. You can have up to six people, including the group owner, in a group.
For 6 users, the max you will pay will be $275 (data is free after 18GB), minimum $95 (no data used).
For 4 users, the max you will pay will be $205 (data is free after 14GB), minimum $65 (no data used).
For 2 users, the max you will pay will be $135 (data is free after 10GB), minimum $35 (no data used).
For me, the four major wins for Fi are:
1. It's multi-carrier.
It seamlessly switches to whichever carrier has the best signal. It also seamlessly switches to VoIP over wifi when in range.
You can start a phone call on your work wifi, walk to a coffee shop, and use their wifi, walk home and use your wifi, and while you're walking, it'll hop between cell carriers to get the best signal. While my scenario is a bit artificial, it's impressive.
The big win here is that you get a strong signal in places where other carriers fail. I had Sprint in Manhattan, and all you need to do to lose signal is walk next to a tall building. I'd get 5 bars outside my apartment and 2 bars inside. With Fi, I have a great signal everywhere.
2. You only pay for what you use.
I'm not a huge data user. I never stream media on my phone, and my day-to-day use consists of reading the news and some light Facebook browsing.
If you don't use any data, your bill is $20/month. A typical bill for me is about $40/mo, which is about half the price I'd pay with any other major carrier.
Sometimes I need more, and having the option is nice. When I was commuting a lot, I'd tether, and use 6-12GB/mo. Since the 6-15GB window is "free", the bill would max out at $80/mo, which is comparable to other providers for similar usage. But instead of paying $80/mo all the time, I only pay that much when I need it. Once, I went over 15GB. The throttling was terribly (256KB), but I was also able to opt-in and pay $10/GB beyond that. I went up to 20GB full-bandwidth for the month, and my bill was $130, but required no commitment. Other providers don't even offer the option.
3. There's no commitment. If you own the phone, it's pay-as-you-go. You don't have to commit to a full-year plan.
4. The data rate applies internationally.
I travel enough that paying $10/mo for data in other countries is a godsend. I used to have to buy local SIMs and pay outrageous rates for data in other countries.
Google Fi also automatically connects you to known WiFi spots and sends your data over their VPN. The switching between antennas will kill your battery as well.
It's nice in a way since if a carrier is having an outage, you can manually switch, but I like for stuff to just work.
Check compatibility for Apple devices. the one that I notice immediately is that visual voicemail does not work, rather you get the messages texts.
From the Google Fi Compatability checker (https://fi.google.com/compatibility):
"Voicemails won't show in the iOS visual voicemail app, but you'll get them as texts and can call to check them"
Xfinity Mobile costs nothing for talk/text for up to 5 phones + $12 per GB of shared data (or $45 per "unlimited" data per phones). After taxes, my bill has been hovering between $14-26, because I don't use a ton of data on the go.
Oh, and they use Verizon as the underlying carrier, so the coverage has been good.
I would love to consider a MVNO that actually supported roaming across carriers, using the normal stuff that's in phones already, as long as they had a reasonable data plan with some measured amount of high speed data, and unmetered low speed after that. I could live with always low speed data too, I just want better coverage than I can get with a single network.
- MMS and SMS would send and the receipients would get multiple copies. In one instance someone got more than a dozen instances of a photo I sent
- MMS and SMS would fail to show up regularly for a month
- SMS showed up a full week after the fact in one instance
- Visual voicemail failed to retrieve messages for the better part of a year once
- It took them way too long to get 2fa SMS messages to actually deliver
- People have had multiple years of issues with their phone not ringing, only ringing on hangouts on their computer, not hearing a ring when they call someone
- People have had multiple years of people regularly being unable to hear them, people saying they sound extremely quiet, being unable to hear people, having awesome signal strength but breaking up terribly for the other person
- Piss poor network switching over multiple years, for a solid 2 years you'd have edge and it wouldn't switch to the other one then two networks that had great signal 4g where you were
- Unexplained mystery data usage for multiple people over multiple years
- Terrible customer service for many when something is wrong
- In multiple instances they allowed existing users numbers to be taken by other people
- Countless instances of the 'hidden' number showing up when texting or calling someone
Etc etc. The ONLY reason I'm still a subscriber is they still owe me $336.63 in referral credit from a contest over a year ago, I basically only pay taxes for my service.
Downvote away, you're either Google employees or dense. You are more than welcome to head over to /r/projectfi and see these problems posted day after day by hundreds (if not thousands of users) going back 3 years as well as all sorts of billing issues, number porting issues, trade-in issues, referral issues, warranty issues etc etc.
Similarly you can find issue after issue on their official forum.
They even screwed the pooch telling customers about the change today by sending the email to customers more than an hour after tweeting it and in the past when there have been critical issues with service, as in service down for thousands of subscribers, they've posted it on their obscure forum instead of emailing customers.
Our 3 kids are on Tello, which resells Sprint. They're on the 100 minutes, unlimited texts, 1GB of data plan for $10/month. With taxes, it's almost exactly $11.
Verizon seems to have coverage in remote areas where Sprint doesn't, though sometimes it's been true that Sprint has service and Verizon doesn't. It might be that if we were using Verizon service from Verizon itself instead of through a reseller we'd have service. Given that we pay about $65/month for 5 lines of service, which is what we were paying for 1 line from Verizon, I'm not anxious to test that out.
I've shown the kids how to adjust their phones to just use WiFi for app updates, etc. They're young enough that they're at school or home, not driving themselves around.
Additional GB are $4/month on Tello. They get 2G speed if they hit their 1GB limit, which means they get iMessages, email, etc.
As far as I know you can still do this with Google Voice + any cell carrier for free though.
(Unless things have changed—when I had T-Mobile, you had to pay extra for international 4G)
> When you travel abroad in 210+ countries and destinations you will have unlimited data at up to 128kbps [...]. If you frequently travel internationally and require a higher speed you can add T-Mobile One Plus™ and get up to 256kbps speeds abroad for $15/mo.
For full disclosure their "One Plus" offering does include other things:
- HD streaming.
- 20GB of 4G LTE mobile hotspot data.
- Unlimited in-flight Wi-Fi.
- Voicemail to Text.
So you can debate if Fi (international 4G) or T-Mobile w/One Plus (in-flight Wi-Fi) is superior for international travel.
For maps, music and Uber 3G worked just fine for me in the UK and India.
Even just for US, coverage is great and rarely you will have any issues with reception.
When you travel internationally, it is fantastic experience and often you get fantastic speeds. My experience is with Europe and it was great.
While it might sound that it can be expensive, overall you really have great experience and it adjusts to your usage. It is transparent and easy to look how much you used.
The only thing that I would love to have (and not excessively pay for it) would be some kind of deal on hotspot access. If I could get a data card through them for lte device that I would getter better deal then $10/GB, I think that would be awesome.
Overall my experience mirrors other positive experiences.
Compared to a Telus "Build Your Plan" with unlimited nationwide talk and text, plus 6GB is $90CAD or $67USD.
I'm sure sooner or later Google will fuck it up, and I'd honestly much rather have an iPhone these days, but for my current setup, its perfect.
Right now, all my SMS/MMS go through hangouts, and then down to whatever devices I want, which is great since I can use hangouts on my work phone, from the computer, etc, and all my texts still come and go from the same phone number.
Annnnd... it's really easy to integrate with Jolly Roger Phone Company which makes for some good laughs.
I think I trust Google more than any of traditional telecom carriers.
Pretty much every major carrier is already selling your location information outright to third party aggregators. They push the consent requirement to the third party aggregators under essentially what amounts to a pinky promise.
I use T-Mobile and their Privacy settings did not prevent my data being sold to these services, at least around the time that vulnerability in of one of the 3rd party aggregators was discovered. Even before the exploit, demo of that system demonstrated that location of my phone was available using just the phone number. It was accurate to within a few block radius for me, using tower data (unblockable) rather than some GPS app on a phone that could potentially be prevented. The exploit demonstrated that it was available with no consent, and that consent requirement was just a form-fill for anyone the third party aggregator in turn sold the access to (so essentially they also pass on the consent requirement.. nobody actually enforces it anywhere).
Google wasn't listed as one of the carriers selling location data at the time, but they do not really have their own network, it is essentially a piggyback on others, so I'm not sure how that would work. But I assume it would require their active support.
I think that given the scrutiny about data that Google is usually given, and the incentive that drives them to act as a gatekeeper to data instead of an outright seller, they would be more reluctant to share this than the mobile carriers who already do so. Carriers are under less scrutiny, and users have limited alternatives. And if you're already using Google Maps, Google likely has more accurate location data on you already (correlating GPS and wifi instead of triangulation of cellular towers).
Surprisingly, a Google Voice front to your cell phone offers more privacy than your cell phone alone, as it eliminates the need to share your mobile number directly and have it location tracked. It has made me think more about using Google Fi, to be honest.. Unfortunately I'd have to find some other public demo from one of these aggregators to see if they were sharing my location data like the other carriers. That last one from LocationSmart was removed from public view after the vulnerability was exposed, IIRC.
Other discussions earlier this year:
US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17081684
LocationSmart Leaked Location Data for All Major U.S. Carriers in Real Time
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17094213
Some data just can't be sold without it inevitably being abused.
I worked for one carrier and part of our project was exporting (without names) location history to some external company which then provided segmentation into categories like "student", "stay at home", "working", "retired" based on how people move. The results were then reintegrated and used for marketing purposes.
So they absolutely can and they absolutely do that.
Won't work in Cuba or North Korea too I am sure.
https://support.google.com/fi/answer/6201699?hl=en&ref_topic...
At the top end (6 group members) the max per user cost (if splitting evenly and not proportioned based on individual usage) is $50, compared to $80 for one user.
It's literally impossible to reach 250GB without paying extra. After being throttled the most you'd be able to download is 82.94GB, assuming you were downloading things non-stop at the maximum speed for 30 days.
For two lines, it's free after 10GB total. Each line is throttled (independent of number of lines) separately at 15GB.
The only other issues were a lag between landing and service beginning. Took over half an hour on one trip, and over an hour on another. But this year I didn't have that lag, took maybe 5 minutes from when I turned on the phone after landing to it working.
Service speed was always good.
NB: I have a Nexus 5X. Some of the reception issues may have just been reception issues with that device compared to others, I don't know.
With that said, data usage habits also did change between 2012 and now. I was happy with 500 Mo/month back in 2011. I would have trouble living with that now.
German prices are still weirdly high, mind you.
Note that with T-Mobile's roaming, you're still on the 4G/LTE network. It's just that they throttle you to 3G speeds.
At least it's better than it was 2-3 years ago, when they actually limited your phone to EDGE (!).
T-Mobile's Extended Range network (LTE Band 12) has substantially improved their rural coverage lately, but is only supported on the US version of major cell phones. If your phone was purchased outside the US/Canada, it probably didn't have Band 12 support. There's a table here (the specific model number is important, in this case): http://www.spectrumgateway.com/compatible-phones
If you weren't picking up LTE, that also suggests to me you might have been having issues related to Band 12.
But outside that, near any mid-sized population centers (where Band 12 isn't needed), you should've had a fast signal. Especially in California. I just ran a speed test on my phone, running T-Mobile in suburban California, and got 90 Mbps down / 40 Mbps up. That's faster than my home internet connection.
Three in the UK (http://www.three.co.uk/) have unlimited mobile data for £20/mo on a 12 month contract. You get:
- unlimited calls and texts in UK and 71 other countries
- unlimited mobile data in the UK in including use as a wifi hotspot
- up to 15GB data in 71 countries including use as a wifi hotspot
https://support.google.com/fi/answer/6246240?hl=en
"Whichever option you choose, once you activate Google Fi service on your phone, you’ll no longer have Google Voice on the Google Account you use with Google Fi. "
What concerns me is the throttling at/after 15 GB. Other carriers have this, too, but it is supposedly "dependent on local load/conditions", and comments have led me to understand that, for some if not many people, they don't encounter the slowdown much in practice.
Whereas, being an MVNO and also perhaps having better software, Fi might be more strict and aggressive with the throttling? I don't know.
This may be a legacy plan; the only thing they seem to currently offer is $40/line/month for 4 lines ($70/month for one), but throttled at 50GB/month (not clear if this is by line or account), not 2GB/month.
It's a little cheaper than Fi list price at the level Bill Protection (essentially, unlimited with 15GB/line throttling threshold) kicks in ($160/4 lines with TMo vs $205 for Fi). But Fi does refund if you use less than 14 GB total, which may reduce the effective price depending on usage pattern.
Years ago AT&T sent me text right when I connected to my hotspot. I can’t see the tethering data use on AT&Ts dashboard but I can see usage per line.