Tesla Software Version 10.0(tesla.com) |
Tesla Software Version 10.0(tesla.com) |
"Call wife on mobile" or "Call wife on work" and it works.
I tested this on a 2016 Model X, 2015 Model S and 2019 Model 3.
Oh no.
Perhaps not the greatest of ideas
Or maybe its while stationary only?
It's supposed to entertain while charging. Same with the games.
I don't have a surround sound system in my home, but I do in my Model 3! Looking forward to trying it out :)
“YouTube, and Hulu or Hulu + Live TV accounts to watch your favorite shows, movies and content right from your car while parked.”
Wait what.. you're encouraging drivers to look at the entertainment panel to read song lyrics? While they're driving?
> Tesla notes that while you can play the tracks while driving, the feature will only display the lyrics when the car is in park. That’s a bit of a shame for road trips with the family, but safety first.
Obviously there's some non-user-facing stuff, i.e. all-wheel-drive, which computerization has revolutionized. But any user-facing stuff is just awful. I want an electric car, but I don't want to be forced into some awful proprietary OS touch screen just to adjust my A/C, and I'm afraid companies are using the switch from gas to electric as an excuse to go in that direction.
In accordance with Parkinson's Law of Triviality[1], the only discussion my post has generated has been about the experience of touch screens versus knobs, without talking about the more complicated repairability and security issues. My impression of Tesla is that they understand Parkinson's Law very well, and are working hard to get the color of the metaphorical bike shed just right. That's not to say that they're getting the nuclear reactor completely wrong, it's just to say that everyone's talking about the bike shed when the nuclear reactor is way more important.
At the end of the day, what I said was ultimately my preference, and your preference is your preference, and there aren't an objective arguments we can make that will change each other's subjective preferences. I'm just frustrated that the direction the industry seems to be going will cater to what you want, and not to what I want.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur...
The fact that part of this update puts Netflix and Hulu in a car is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard.
Car companies figured out instrumentation a while ago, it’s not something that needed to be ‘disrupted’.
Most of the dumb stuff seems to come from designing a car that isn’t meant to be driven. @ Folks who don't want to drive your cars, the solution exists, it’s called public transit, and the reason it sucks is because of cars.
But in general I agree, I don't want to be battling some interface whilst I'm trying to drive.
I'm surprised there havent been moves in Europe to ban the Tesla type, everything on a tablet setup. I'm not allowed to use a phone whilst driving, why is a big screen on the centre console any different?
And then you have companies like Mazda who actually advocate the return of analog control (mentioned in another comment here).
...but then most modern cars seem to have abysmal visibility through the back windows anyway. The rear view from a 20 year old Micra I often drive is excellent, much better than any of the more modern cars I have hired.
I'm not really opposed to reversing cameras by themselves, but a) it takes up dashboard real estate for a feature I don't really use, and b) as soon as you put a screen on the dashboard, the company is going to want to put all sorts of annoying "features" into it.
Boy is it a thrill driving a car you have no instrumentation for! You can't even see how fast you're going.
I love Carplay in my car, but I'm luck enough ti have physical volume and next/last track button on a steering wheel stalk.
Yeah, I can agree that some digital readouts are okay. It's really difficult to communicate succinctly what I don't like about modern digital car interfaces.
If you've ever sat in a recent upscale European car, you can. Unlike touch-screen keyboard solutions, entering destinations via scroll-wheel keyboard (like BMW does) or via guided voice entry is easily and safely possible while driving.
I already have a smartphone, which does both of these things better, and which I've already configured to my liking. The only thing a car can do better than my phone for either of these use cases is audio, so just give me a jack please.
They have a supplier that has been doing analog knobs for them for half a century, and they're kind of obliged to still use their knobs.
Also the designers are very much in the "everything has to have a button" -mindset, which is hard to get out of.
Me (driving): Alexa/Siri set temperature to 70 degrees
Alexa/Siri: temperature set to 70 degrees
I would love this, already do it with my smart thermostat + Alexa skill integration.
So for example the volume up button should always be a volume up button. They shouldn't change function because in some other menu I picked "temperature" instead of "volume".
But I can do that now using the voice commands on the v10 update. I know there's a guy who tinkers with the firmware code and found that the voice commands for temp and other settings are dormant on a previous update.
"Okay Sizzle, switching to Centigrade temperature scale"
'No! Alexa, switch to Fahrenheit' (system hears 'far ride')
"Okay Sizzle, going into long-range mode" turns off AC, music, etc
Voice controls in a car sounds good in theory but horrible in practice. I remember someone showing me one of the older pre smart assistant systems, him having to shout 'call X' 3 times and in the end it called the work instead of personal number
When you grow old and don't understand the future technology... Guess the future is now
This might be a situation where Tesla Smart Summon works only when Tesla's are still rare. In areas where they are more common, I imagine a traffic jam of confused driverless Teslas trying to move past each other but get stuck in a small lane like the one in the video.
Also hoping they install WiFi at superchargers so you can watch youtube/Netflix while charging there. Not sure where else I'd use that feature.
It’s sad seeing people fling mud because someone wants to comment that they enjoy something about TFA as a user of said product.
Incidentally, my son is going to go absolutely bonkers once v10 downloads to my TM3, and I will be feeling approximately the same inside, but will do my best to model a slightly more level reaction.
You will quickly find that this is NOT the majority. I frequent those forums and most users are very satisfied with their cars.
They are apparently currently in the “support hell” phase of growth... They’ll get past it
Does this come with an "oh god, stop!" button of some sort?
There must be additional safety features in the software to avoid collision with obstacles? Sonar sensors?
> You can use this while being distracted by a fussy child[1].
> [1] You must be paying full attention to the car.
Tesla is not your father’s car.
But, it is (at least at that price point).
Whenever I see a mercedes/audi/mclaren/tesla/maserati/bentley, it's almost always an older adult driving (40-60 if I had to guess). Probably because these cars aren't affordable for people until late in their career.
(I'm in upstate NY, the demographics are surely on the younger side in the bay area where you have tech workers who earn enough early in their career to afford it)
That style marketing video is incredibly confusing given the target market.
He had just bought a Model S for his wife. He said, “I’ve always, always bought Mercedes. Oh man. Oooooh man. That thing. It’s just. So fast. You push the gas and...”
I thought about saying, “What gas?” But I just congratulated him on his (wife’s) new car.
(I drive a TM3, is why he approached me.)
I could imagine smart summon really doing something bad, since it is using tech that just isn't ready.
Fortunately the volume knob is in a fixed location so I can use it without taking my eyes of the road and the skip/play buttons are on the steering wheel.
While aircraft use glass cockpits , the important controls keeping it in the sky are still good old button/levers even with different shapes/textures.
- jaguar vs tesla
- blackberry vs iphone
- accessibility vs simplicity
- function vs form
- classic vs modern
They are both really good products, but some will prefer the blackberry and some the iPhone. The only thing we have in common, is always be ranting about why the other product is bad.
This is a conscious decision because signs are easily spoofed by black tape. Because speed limits change so infrequently, it is much easier and safer to pull from a lookup table than to read dirty signs and rely on CV...
Humans can also be spoofed by black tape but humans, usually, have common sense to realize that going 100 in a small city road is probably a very bad idea.
For internet, you have to be in Wifi range, add a SIM card to the radio, or tether from your phone. (I tether or use the house Wifi).
It's fun to add a bluetooth OBD2 dongle, so I can watch vacuum/boost on the screen with the Torque app (or diagnose car problems, it is an old car..).
https://www.amazon.com/Eonon-Bluetooth-Navigation-Support-Sy...
The FM radio overloads when I drive near a transmitting tower (the stock radio and an aftermarket Kenwood I have in another car don't have this problem).
It's nice that it integrates with the car's computer, but it could be better. When I back up it switches to back-up cam mode, which turns off the radio or anything else you're doing. This has the side effect that I try to rush through the back-up manoeuver to get the radio back.
I'm tempted to upgrade to a more recent one to see if these things have improved. An upgrade from one aftermarket radio to another is pretty easy, because the wiring is all done.
Yeah, I did this upgrade in the first place just to add bluetooth and figured I give the Android radio a try.
I'm guessing parking lots are private property?
I can't imagine it is legal anywhere fully automated, unsupervised cars are not, even places that have supervised autonomous testing, since there is no driver at the controls. Of course, if you are someplace the public driving laws don't apply, and no private rules have yet been adopted against it, you might be okay even in jurisdictions where self-driving vehicles aren't allowed.
> I'm guessing parking lots are private property?
They are, but in CA they frequently have signs notifying that the public Vehicle Code applies and is enforced.
Edit: By enthusiast, I mean track/motorsport/etc enthusiast. I borrowed a Model S from a friend of mine for a few days and while I enjoyed it, it wasn't the most exciting drive, and I can't imagine it would be much good on a track. Amazing technology though.
They are presently testing red-light detection in shadow mode on the whole AP2/3 fleet, for example.
It's just a really bad parking lot design.
Regardless, Smart Summon doesn't currently care about things like directionality in a parking lot. This version doesn't try to do anything fancy like reading markings on the pavement.
The app will show you on a satellite map the route that the car is planning to go, assuming this release follows what was shown in the early access releases.
As the person supervising its behavior, it's currently solely your responsibility to make sure that the car doesn't cause problems for other people. The car will do its best to avoid hitting anyone or anything while still making it to your location, but you're still the one in charge.
Smart summon currently works via a dead man's switch. You have to hold down a button the entire time, and if you let go of the button for any reason, the car immediately stops.
The long-term goal is that supervision won't always be necessary, of course, but this feature is available now -- with supervision. If you see an opportunity to use it, it's there. It will get better. I've personally watched Autopilot grow up from something barely usable as a driver assistance technology to something that works extremely well for every day usage.
Isnt that below minimum viable product for something expected to be used with other people around?
"As the person supervising its behavior"
I'm sure Uber said the same thing to the drivers on its self driving program.
We all know human nature though, it isn't right to abdicate responsibility to someone you know is going to start blindly trusting your 'good enough' system.
As a non Tesla owner, I don't want to be an inadvertent beta tester for these technologies.
Summon is the canary in the coal mine. As in, unless it shows signs of life then the fairy tale of self driving cars is just that, a fairy tale. If they cannot get a safe an accurate summon to work why should I ever believe my car will ever drive on its own. Do I believe it will come, not for years. My car cannot even identify a speed limit sign, maybe version 10 will help on that. I doubt it, v10 is all about what it can do while parked.
I am so damn tired of them adding features for when I AM NOT DRIVING MY CAR. As in, I don't need Hulu or Netflix or such, this is all part of the disconnect at Tesla. They have sold even themselves that autonomous driving is RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER that they completely ignore improving quality of life features while driving, namely their blue tooth support for smart phones is poor, ten year old poor. It is illegal to use my phone physically while driving but if I want to change the play list my car is getting from my phone I have to resort to using my phone. This is a common feature on most cars today but Tesla never has had it. when pressed we get sycophants defending the decision because autonomous driving is coming "real" soon.
Even more laughable, they never delivered on promised voice commands. I can tell the car where to go but heaven help me if I want it to change radio stations or select a new play list from my phone. Even voice control for Slacker is nothing more than a glorified Siri look up a song and hope it gets the right one.
love my car but am not impressed much with their direction when it comes to adding features to the car. They almost got automatic wipers working consistently but automatic high beams is as spastic as a Jack Russel Terrier.
ps: when asked, would I buy the car again? No. I do not care for their direction in software; namely focusing on what it can do while I am not driving it. I want a car that responds to me and makes tasks easier, not one that focuses on stuff to do while parked and charging, if its charging I certainly am not going to sit around in it. I already have been sitting for three plus hours driving it likely
"Those using Smart Summon must remain responsible for the car and monitor it and its surroundings at all times."
Sure, when I'm dealing with a fussy kid in a parking lot, I can monitor the car over there and its surroundings at all times. That's what I usually do, forget about watching the kid.
Best car I've ever owned by a lot.
People sure do get mad about Blutooth.
Also, at least they're able to have a 'software direction'. Not aware of any other manufacturer who provides anywhere near this level of OTA upgrades.
And obviously the autopilot team is a different one than the people installing games. Chill.
Both speed limit sign detection, and self driving on the freeway worked flawlessly for me.
I guess YMMV.
> My car cannot even identify a speed limit sign
My Model S can and it has AP1. It's very good at this. Has it ever made a mistake. Not that I'm aware and I've checked a lot. I'll see a speed limit sign and as I pass it, the speed limit sign on the drivers console will update.
ps: You have some pretty high standards for driver-assist technology. What did you drive before and what would you get if you had to choose today?
This is perhaps not the best example to use in this thread as V10 apparently includes this...
Does it pick up any speed limit signs? I have a newer Corolla and the camera in that car will pick up speed limit signs. It's detection wouldn't be good enough for autopilot, but it is helpful.
They still haven't fixed that?
Works almost perfectly in my 2015 Model S with version 1 autopilot.
I wonder what kind of road rage this might induce.
edit: the parent comment edited his comment to include "no right way", which I'd like to address: it is very common (at least in every America city I've ever been to) for parking lots to have lanes that are very clearly marked for only one-way travel. These lanes, like the one shown in the video, are typically only wide enough for one car, and if someone is going the wrong way down one, there's a good chance they'll cause a traffic jam if they encounter someone who is going the right way.
Sure, since it's in a parking lot you might not get a ticket from a police officer. But these rules and established traffic flows still exist for a reason, and if Smart Summon disregards them, it has the potential to cause some incredibly inconvenient situations for both the Tesla owner and anyone else involved.
The Spotify integration in v9 is so non-functional for me that I just use Bluetooth.
It seems to have zero ability to retry on network failure, and once it’s failed, it basically doesn’t work again on that trip unless you want to reboot the whole MCU.
Another reason I stopped using it is that if I have an audio book on my phone, if Spotify is selected then my phone will start playing the audiobook in the background over Bluetooth to nowhere while spotify plays on the speakers, thus losing my place in the book while I drive.
I thought Spotify dev was in Sweden, is that not the case?
(Just don't use the vending machines there; got some expired snacks :/)
In my experience, Superchargers are ALWAYS near 1) coffee, 2) food, 3) bathrooms.
Then one time I decided to tether it to my phone. Soon after I got a software update, and I went ahead and applied it.
Big mistake. The update not only changed the GUI substantially, but also broke the navigation system and the voice command system.
The navigation system now gives two or three instructions and then nothing, it'd still be active and following the route on screen, but no more instructions.
The voice command system took around 5 seconds to get ready to record, while it was instantaneous before the update.
I took it in for service. They seemed to know about the navigation system problem. But all they could do was to apply the latest update. It didn't fix the navigation system, and the voice command system now takes around 10 seconds to get ready.
Overall I still like the car, but I don't think I'll ever get another, not while they're still pushing out half-baked software updates that could potentially cripple critical functionalities.
I don't get all of the anti-Tesla vitriol, I'm honestly curious what fuels it. It's like all objectivity get's thrown out the window.
Welcome to the internet? Tesla is just a divisive topic around here and only a small percentage of that concerns their products.
As somebody usually only watching these threads it's quite amusing to be honest. On one side you have the people that just don't like Musk, or those with legit concerns like the right to repair folks. On the other hand you have a mix of satisfied owners and people that for some reason to into full "somebody is wrong on the internet" mode. There rarely ever seems to be any constructive discussion in these threads, any praise devolves into mud swinging, every criticism is jumped upon or dismissed.
Teslas are disruptive - they're not what you expect of cars. I will never look the same at a car again. Tell this to anyone who doesn't understand, and they simply won't understand what you're going on about.
Over a year in; driving my Model X still makes me smile.
Feature parity would (for me) require at least:
1) Same price point 2) Decent size, bigger than a Leaf, but still not SUV-big 3) Same range with same carrying capacity 4) Something that would compete with the Supercharger network 5) The Geek factor. I want a super-techy EV, not something that's exactly like a normal car, except electric.
Perhaps mix that with some other less than attractive traits.
it’s unfortunate because i’m sure there are some cool thoughts and idea out there on HN but it’s always ruined by negativity. in which, watch this comment get downvoted to oblivion.
- Just stating bad press has some connotation of "fake news", there is a lot of bias in the media regarding Musk and Tesla. So much that it is close to impossible to get a fact based view. Yet, the facts ot there aren't that great, especially regarding the finances. So if you are making a point about opinions being based on bad press alone and criticize others, provide fact and data.
- Saying others talk garbage is kind of a personal attack, you might want to refer again the posting guidelines.
- One of the interesting points about HN is the multitude of opinions, you don't have to agree to learn something new. Quite the contrary. And here the guidelines come in to have an open discussion.
On a side note, I didn't downvote you. Reason is because in threads like these it doesn't help a lot anyways. Also, I think personal opinions about the discussions here themselves are perfectly fine. Just tone it down with regards to opinions you don't necessarily agree with.
But really be careful how much Android you're talking about. There are some brands really using Google's automotive services; this is not our strategy. When you do this, you get a great package of function and services, no doubt. But you also have to open up all the car's sensor data [to Google], and when I say all, it really is all sensor data," Senger told me.
(statement from Christian Senger, mentioned by Ars as being VW Group's Digital Car and Services division)
Car manufacturers of luxury cars shy away from Android Auto partially because they believe it turns one of their main selling points and silos (advanced technology) into yet another commodity.
I don't even care that it requires USB.
Beyond just the normal controls (which can sometimes be hit or miss once you're in CarPlay/AndroidAuto mode) the extra little functionalities you notice are amazing. A good example is when using Google Maps I can zoom in/out by just pinching the touchscreen in the car, or I can use the physical dial (normally for changing radio stations) to control the zoom level, or scroll through selections. If you change contexts, what the physical dial control change along with them, and its really slick once you get used to it.
Simple examples:
1) If you accidentally tell the car or the phone not to use CarPlay for a particular phone, there is no obvious way to get it to ask again
2) If you are connected to the same phone via Bluetooth AND CarPlay’s USB connection (...why does it even permit this to begin with??)... Wonkiness results
3) My S.O. refuses to use Waze on it because Waze’s own notifications overlay/BLOCK important elements of its own nav and are not trivially dismissed (do they even test these things??)
These are just off the top of my head in an Audi, hardly a run-of-the-mill car.
Try a Tesla’s UI for a while, and CarPlay will seem like garbage. It becomes very clear why they didn’t go with it. I only wish it had Waze on it, and then I could get rid of my phone mount.
part of the linux foundation
But yeah no nothing to do with data rights on Apple’s end, google does want more data though.
It was very pricey but I got a ProClip mount for my phone. Phone slots right in, automatically starts charging and Android Auto loads right up.
AA/Carplay will win in the long term, simply due to the fact that there's a larger market and app makers can publish their own apps. In other words, I can use Pocket Casts in my Chevy Volt, but need to use a phone screen + bluetooth audio in my Tesla.
I guess I would end up using my phone over Bluetooth, negating much of the benefit the large touchscreen in the Tesla provides, ending up fiddling with my phone to change songs etc.
People are going to point out the privacy issues inherent in using Android, and I understand the complaint, but Google already knows my speed and location at all times anyway just by virtue of having my phone on me. I don't think Android Auto would have any interaction with the cameras or sensors, since most other cars do not have them, but perhaps others can speak to this.
Regardless, this has really diminished my interest in getting a Tesla.
It’s a “continuing going” button. And if the connection to the car is interrupted even briefly then Summon deactivates.
This is how Summon has always worked. I’ve had my phone die while using it. The car stopped before the shut down spinner graphic even showed up.
Driving an electric tesla made all of those cars feel utterly dumb.
If you drive cross country a lot or do long track sessions, I get it, tesla won't work well, but if you don't think an enthusiast would like a tesla, give one a try.
The combination of autopilot, infotainment, and smoother ride makes it less tiring. The charging stops tend to happen when I would want to take a break and eat anyway. Also, hotels with Tesla chargers are great.
And of course those trips are possible you'd just need to stop 1-3 times for 10-15 mins (you charge faster at lower batter % vs fill up more range once). Now if you want to go 2x your battery range, then you actually start to have a mild inconvenience with charging time.
If I had room for 2 cars, then the Tesla would be a much more attractive option.
> Driving an electric tesla made all of those cars feel utterly dumb.
Why do they feel dumb? I hear this kind of stuff but I don't get it.
Do you still do all the things you did with your old cars but now with your Tesla?
You should also look into how the A/C system works on the model 3, it's fascinating how simple it really is. It literally uses air to push the air up and down. This reduces the complexity with less moving parts. It's a very genius system IMO. Tech Forum YouTube channel made a video of it disassembled so you can see how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvNkcPcrBxw
Yeah, I saw that other comment and if the reality is even close to the marketing materials, those are gonna be awesome vehicles. I probably wouldn't get one new unless the price is very low (the benefits of buying new aren't worth the loss in value that happens when you drive a new car off the lot, IMO). So by the time they start hitting the used market I expect the reality will be clearer.
> You should also look into how the A/C system works on the model 3, it's fascinating how simple it really is. It literally uses air to push the air up and down. This reduces the complexity with less moving parts. It's a very genius system IMO.
I dunno, it's simpler in that there are fewer moving parts, but from the video it seems like part of how that was achieved was by using existing plastic molding and whatnot to direct the air, which makes it harder to replace i.e. one duct in isolation--it's not very modular. And having simpler moving parts is a small decrease in complexity compared to the increased complexity of digital controls. Of course it's hard to tell from the video, so that impression has to be taken with a grain of salt.
The company puts those features in there because the market is telling them to. Bad UX is orthogonal to that fact.
Good!
I guess that it's because it doesn't relate to the context/spirit of the parent comment.
The experience has been eloquently put by Chamath Palihapitiya in this video:
https://youtu.be/lx6GJADrflk?t=255
Yes, the company is not perfect, but at least they are trying to accelerate the transition to renewables.
Yeah, that's my one major concern with Tesla autopilot. I don't like the difference in their advertising and autopilot's actual capability.
I didn't know until I saw it in my ex-sister-in-law's Alfa, but apparently there ARE CarPlay implementations that don't have touchscreens. That makes it much less easy, though still better than any automaker's.
We had a total of two 20-minute charging stops on each (12-hour) leg, during which we ate a burger, took a toilet break and had a cup of coffee. When we were done, the car had enough charge to reach the next planned stop (in 4 hours) with 25% capacity to spare.
Absolutely zero worry about running out of energy, zero time standing still that we wouldn't be taking a break anyway.
All three of us were more rested when we arrived than when we took the same trip in an ICE car six months ago, due to a more quiet and comfortable ride with no engine vibrations. Notably, the trip was also faster.
What Tesla does is kind of irrelevant to us, though, since we're a 1-car family, and need to retain the ability to take long trips in areas with poor charger concentration. IOW, if we had 2 cars, one could definitely be a Tesla, but we don't need 2 cars.
But I get what you're saying.
Or the Farmer's guy "It happened, and we covered it".
Several streets near my home have had speed limits changed since I got my Tesla, and it sometimes takes months for the database to catch up.
They pop up once in a while but not to the extent many people (often times from people don't even own one) claim.
https://twitter.com/AdamKoszary/status/1130837644827660289?s...
He apparently got hired because Elon likes his "absolute unit" sheep meme.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-hires-social-media-man...
Their twitter has been a lot more whimsical since. For example:
...which is obviously irrelevant, if you've read the grandparent comment of your comment. Please read context before responding.
Source: know an engineer on that team.
This is exactly the kind of vitriol I was talking about... "FSD" now has Navigate on Autopilot, Smart Summon (with v10 it now comes to YOU! https://youtu.be/9cuJATedvDk a Tesla exclusive feature?) Autopark and Auto Lane Change.
If you option these on other similarly priced cars, the bundle will be priced either the same or probably even more.
i.e. very? They've sold millions of them, that's not for the track performance.
AP1 vs AP2 vs AP2.5 in the Tesla refers to image processing hardware and software.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#Hardware_1
The AP1 includes forward looking radar by Bosch, ultrasonic detectors and a forward facing Mobileye EyeQ3 camera at the rear view mirror mount. That camera does many things including rain detection. It also detects speed limit signs.
https://www.mobileye.com/uk/fleets/technology/speed-limit-in...
It's more of Tesla can't because because MobileEye owns the patent:
Except for once in a while.
I wouldn't generally notice except my "over speed limit" chime (set to +10) will go off sometimes. I look down and see that it thinks the speed limit is 50, even though I'm on the freeway and the limit is 65. It thinks I'm going 15 over.
This is puzzling because there's no physical 50 mph sign and even if it misrecognized a truck sign, that would say 55. (trucks, towing speed limit 55 sign)
Maybe there's a speed limit override in the nav system?
Perhaps? I know the latest studies suggest hands free phone calls aren't much better than handed phone calls [1], I don't know if there would be a difference between a conversation and barking out instructions in this context.
Id still prefer buttons.
[1] https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2016/07/...
The number of times I’ve seen people cars swivel around on the highway texting can’t be counted.
If I’m driving with someone and I see cars behave erratic I usually bet the driver is texting. Mostly they are and it’s just too obvious - it’s for some reason a specific pattern to it. I can’t be alone in noticing this?
We now have two technicians because of the influx of new owners, which is surprising to me since Boise is not exactly a major city.
On the highway the car has to distinguish between garbage bag and human, and avoid false positives because they can cause an accident.
In the parking lot the car doesn’t exceed I think 3mph and had no safety reason to avoid false positives. It will stop for the garbage bag every time.
Is it technically possible for Smart Summon to collide with something? Perhaps it is. And I guarantee we will see people testing this heavily on YouTube with styrofoam in the coming weeks.
Incidentally, it’s also possible for drivers to hit other people in parking lots too. It’s actually one of the most likely locations for a vehicle to collide with a human.
The sooner we have algorithms driving in parking lots that are safer than humans driving in parking lots, the better.
Again, to your original point, it’s a particularly good place to start as you can allow the false positives in the name of a strict collision safety regime.
Imagine being this eager to shit on someone else’s pleasure.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/5/20683406/japan-car-sharing...
Spotted the person who’s never supercharged a Tesla
Yeah... I noticed this recently too. The early days were very enjoyable and insightful. Do you have other alternatives?
I would maybe prefer something that is linux inspired, but https://www.phoronix.com/ is too wordy for me. Something like https://www.planetizen.com/ is cool for me, but maybe too specific.
Suprisingly, Reddit is cool if you choose your subreddits wisely. But apart from that, tbh I think it's probably better to read actual books on topics you find stimulating or maybe something like the Economist.
I fail to see how that is by any definition “behind”. I would be happy to replicate this and video it if you are skeptical.
Here is the issue: Video cameras will work properly most of the time but once in a while the exact distance will be wrongly calculated as can be seen with all the Teslas crashing in trucks lately. A LIDAR gives you a way higher confidence on the distance of objects.
Yes, with semi-intelligent systems it gives a head-start, as you can reasonably easy detect obstacles, but it does not help in understanding how to react to the detected obstacles.
So I would consider LIDAR rather a system which at the current state of development helps with collision avoidance rather than with true self-driving.
Being forced to stop every couple of hundred miles was really not that bad. Broke up the trip nicely.
Also, the autopilot is AMAZING for long trips. Even though you have to pay attention, it is so much less exhausting than fully driving. I kinda feel like a supervisor, watching out far down the road, looking out for strange things coming up, etc. Just a very pleasant experience.
CURRENT Superchargers charge up to 600 miles per hour. COMPLETELY dead to COMPLETELY full is like 30 minutes. But most stops to charge will only last long enough for you to pee and grab a red bull
NEW superchargers charge up to 1000 miles per hour. Do the math. You're going to have to start jogging if you want your redbull before idle fee's kick in.
Combine that with autopilot. I took a trip in a gas rental car recently and HATED it. Tesla for roadtrips for sure.
If it works for your roadtrips, great. For mine it doesn't, and anyone telling me that I should enjoy spending an hour in some crummy location in the middle of nowhere waiting for the thing to charge (but only to 80%, or your battery will lose capacity!) are probably the same people who enjoy Elon's fart jokes.
The self driving makes road trips utterly relaxing.
You can control temperature, fan speed, brightness, and more all from the steering wheel.
That video tutorial is now outdated since there has been many UI improvements, but the steps should still be the same.
Buttons are always in the same place, I know where they are, I don't have to go hunting for the thing that used to be there, but is now in a sub sub menu, meanwhile you aren't looking where you're going.
The demo person is constantly looking at his screen instead of in front of him.
Just realized I might be a grumpy old man.
It shouldn't be so controversial to claim that automatic adjustment of settings is a net UX win this this common scenario.
There have been cars that change various settings depending on the key fob used ("hers and his"):
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSoJPgFSDOE
Before fobs, where you actually put the key in the ignition hols, there were cars with "memory buttons".
Not being able to fix my own car because you've used space age technology to solve turning a dial IS a problem I care about.
Are you familiar with Alexander's Lodge? (https://alexanderslodge.com/) It looks like they have a couple of Tesla Destination Chargers, which typically work at around 40mph, (40 miles of range for each hour of charge) so it would work to drive there, charge for an hour or two, and have enough range to comfortably drive back to Portland in a day or two.
Of course, that doesn't mean the Model 3 is right for you in every way, but it's interesting to think through scenarios like this.
> which requires minimal integration with the vehicle
My guess: maybe VW is scared of a potential "which CURRENTLY requires minimal integration with the vehicle" (I imagine that the push for more and more integration will increase in the future) and therefore decided to give it a try now and not to become passively dependent on Google.
BMW allows carplay with a monthly subscription to the rest of their services, largely because they believe that as long as you're getting the full benefit of a connected car, you'll be attached to the value - strategically, it makes no sense for them to give it away from free.
The other thing? These companies are starting to change their mind as consumers demand it as a feature.
Although to be honest, if not for the unconscionable amount of money they (or Navteq, I guess) asks for map updates, I'd be even happier just using the built-in navigation all the time.
I have a long commute, the only thing that makes it bearable is choosing the content I listen to. The app makes a difference here - PocketCasts and Spotify have features that others don't - so I do want to use their native interfaces. The apps I use in the car have great Android Auto interfaces which simplify content selection. Using Android Auto also integrates with the other features on the phone, such as phone calls, calendar reminders, "OK Google", and maps. This essentially defines my entire driving experience at the moment.
If Tesla's interface doesn't support an app that I want to use (eg. Spotify) then I would have to resort to using the phone over Bluetooth. I wouldn't just say "oh well, I spent $50k on this car but it doesn't support PocketCasts so I guess I'll listen to something else for the next hour" every day. This makes the big touchscreen rather useless, and is going to be more dangerous than my current car because I will be fiddling with the phone.
Maybe I'll just get a big suction cup and mount my phone right on top of the touchscreen, using Android Auto on the phone itself over Bluetooth.
for those of us that do, Tesla does a lot of self-defeating with the way they handle repair and service.
fyi: all car forums are filled with negative experiences with that specific car. The people usually go to forums to try to find help, not to espouse the greatness of their investment.
Which car and what forums? Care to post some links that are at least more than a week old?
> The people usually go to forums to try to find help, not to espouse the greatness of their investment.
Not true! There are a ton of bad experiences with lackluster customer service. I myself experienced it an posted it at teslamotorsclub.com (Tesla ended up making it right!). So I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion.
For example:
- https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/byc1gt/im_abso...
- https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8nqh2b/i_got_r...
- https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/ae1goq/waiting...
- https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/bjcedf/waiting...
- https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/ae4lhv/psa_if_...
A good Google Dork is: site:reddit.com/r/teslamotors "Waiting" "parts" "support"
ICE just feels intolerable after.
I feel like the traffic jam stuff isn't about driving - that's about commuting.
I can't imagine being in a dead silent car all the time. It's not like they're dead silent anyway - you hear plenty of wind. I think the sound of tires squealing isn't a very appealing sound. So if that's almost all I'm ever going to hear while ripping up a road then I think I won't have as much fun.
To me the sound and vibration detract from the road. Let me hit the limits of visual stream processing without distraction, let me think when going slower. Also they waste most of the energy in gas.
The ideal (for me anyway) would really be to have a supercharger (or other fast charging) at Sunrise, and ideally one in Packwood as well. Or forgot the whole enterprise altogether and put in a bus service like Zion has.
Of course, Rainier is only one example. Once you get into Eastern Oregon, the charging situation is even worse.
I would hope that if we get a more forward-thinking government in the next few years that we start thinking about this kind of stuff, because thinking about the carbon impact of "enjoying nature" is pretty bleak stuff. I'm actually interested in this problem enough that I've started to look at the economics of building charging stations (demand charges!)
That is THE meat and potatoes of the patent. Sign recognition. i.e. speed limit signs. I'm not a patent lawyer so I will not pretend to know enough of the scope.
Tesla AP1 cars also have it, but when Tesla dropped MobileEye in favor of their own system, they can't use it anymore.
Yeah - I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about that for enthusiast cars except maybe for a Viper ACR or other street legal race car...
I mean - half the appeal of getting something like a Hellcat is the sound itself.
What I want next is an automatic sunscreen that slides down based on sensing the angle of the sunlight. I think there is also technology to dynamically darken glass that could be used. I hereby grant a free perpetual license to auto manufacturers to use this idea. :)
The great thing about the touch screen is not the UI experience, but the flexibility when it comes to updates that also include new features. When you go the hardware controller route on a product that is still heavily being interrated on, you quickly run out of intuitive ways to clearly label and/or manipulate things or an exzessive number of buttons with integrated screens (to indicate their function in any given context), neither of which is great UX wise and also pretty expensive.
That's the main problem. Change is good only if it's optional, by choice. Forced redesign only makes designers happy, because they can now stop looking at that old version that they released some years ago and want to sunset it.
No need for a company to ever consider distribution costs again.
Citation needed. I've been using it for distributing all kinds of things like that and never paid them a penny... Just make sure you split it to 512MB chunks, which isn't hard for a software updater.
Now you can just select the option to get the software update right away though.
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1iETfhnSPY1JjSZPcq6xIwpXaw/ZWE...
You not only have to take a hand off the steering wheel, but also look to see which lever you want/need to press. If I'm changing the temperature I know where the dial is, but I also have to look to see what I'm setting it to.
I'm surprised people here think analog controls are a bulletproof solution to the same problems you're criticizing Tesla for. I have a hunch that if there were YouTube videos watching people change climate control settings in their car they'd not only be required to take hand off the wheel but also look down and away for a small period of time. Tesla's isn't perfect but you get to keep both hands on the steering wheel and head looking straight, but down ever so slightly.
You can make bad UI with or without buttons.
Remember VCR clock controls?
I feel like I see more people saying first that digital is terrible and it should be analog, that they'll never get a car that has digital. The reasons they list are still true for analog though.
Your claim was this:
> You can not drive a Tesla without using the touchscreen on an almost constant basis.
This is patently false, but I can't prove a negative. I drive the car every day without touching the screen, let alone on any constant basis, but I guess maybe you know better.
False. There are voice controls, buttons on the steering wheel, the steering wheel itself, pedals, pedestals (for turn signals like other cars), etc. Even autopilot's functionality doesn't require the screen (or touching it).
> music browsing, imperfect automated climate control settings, navigation, insane/ludicrous mode, apps, etc.
None of these things are required to drive the car, and music browsing is controlled by knobs on the steering wheel.
Respectfully there's no way to respond meaningfully when these statements are made in bad faith. You can't walk back your initial claim to "many non-critical non-driving features require using the touchscreen."
Such a thing does not exist. You can only add more nines (e.g. heartbeats, check sensor jitter etc.). At some point you're more likely to be ran over by another car than the tesla slowly, patiently crushing you at 2km/h.
Of course that doesn't mean tesla is actually that reliable.
No guarantee that's how they implemented it, though.
Looked into it previously. Even if you got it to work, it likely would not be street legal, as there are pretty strict regulations on what part of the windshield can or cannot be tinted.
Are you serious? That false narrative fueled by FUD has been the talking point by short-sellers since 2008 (Only Tesla and Ford survived the 2008 market crash btw).
It's now 2019 and you would think people would know any better.
Everywhere I look (modulo self bias) I find people that are in awe of the digital touch interface. In contrast I don't find people in awe of analog buttons. They just use them and complain when they don't work for whatever reason. Digital interface touch "buttons" don't work on cars. We complain. It's simple.
The second one is kinda whatever. I don't actually fear they will go out of business. But neither do I have infinite confidence in their business model.
Once again, tons imply that it’s the majority. Unless you have actual verifiable data to cite, you’re just operating on opinionated data.
Have you been living under a rock? I didn't even know about the insane short interest and the countess $TSLAQ Twitter trolls until I became a Tesla owner. Which is apparently been there since the early days.
Is it BS because it does not fit your narrative? or is it a baseless claim? If so, can you please cite sources?
> Would you believe that it's martians spreading "fud" about Tesla, if Elon says so?
Is that your attempt at insulting my intelligence? I look at everything objectively... I typically stay quiet if I don't know enough on a particular topic or don't have anecdotes.
Tesla now operates in Billions of dollars. A 10% miss in sales results in Billions in losses.
It sure was! They had some troubles delivering the very first Roadsters and Elon had to use his own money to keep the company afloat (also SpaceX) and continue making payroll.
> A 10% miss in sales results in Billions in losses.
Well that's how the market inherently works you know? Tesla vehicle sales have also been rising year-over-year so your 10% miss does not apply.
like you said in 2008 there wasn't anything there. They lose millions the whole company dies
now Tesla operates in billions of dollars. They lose billions it's still only 10%
I'm sure the shady silicon valley dealings are isolated to WeWork, even though Tesla is being sued for similar self-dealing. Good luck!
In Fiscal Year 2018, they had positive operating cash flow of $2.1 billion. Part of the reason for the difference between accounting earnings (a loss) and actual cash flow is the huge depreciation charges ($1.9 billion) for historical capital expenditures, versus present-day cash outflows.
In that year, Tesla still spent a lot of cap-ex dollars on Model 3 capacity and battery capacity (to the tune of $2.3 billion), so overall cash flow was slightly negative - about $200 million for the year, off of $21 billion in revenue.
In the six months since then, they're reported additional positive operating cash flow: $224mm off of $10.9 billion in revenue.
This is a company experiencing 47% y/y revenue growth for the first half of the year. Yes, they're spending on cap-ex, but they are producing positive operating cash flow and their total operating+cap-ex cash flow is running a little in the red, but <1% of revenues.
And in context, they have $5 billion in cash and $10 billion in short term assets.
Tesla is not at significant financial risk.
Revenue — $17 billion Gross Profit — $5.8 billion EBITDA — $2 billion Market Cap — $111 billion Debt — $14 billion Enterprise Value — $125 billion
Tesla
Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B EBITDA — $2.33B Market Cap — $39B Debt — $14B Enterprise Value — $54B
-------------------
Uber
Revenue — $12 billion Gross Profit — $4 billion EBITDA — negative $7.6 billion Market Cap — $53 billion Debt — $6.2 billion Enterprise Value — $50.5 billion
Tesla
Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B EBITDA — $2.33B Market Cap — $39B Debt — $14B Enterprise Value — $54B
I can go on but hopefully you get the point.
There is clearly some dark art in accounting, but I don't think it's always because the companies are covering up bad business. It might be because they're trying to make as little taxable profit as possible.
“"highway" includes ... every private place or passageway to which the public, for the purpose of the parking or servicing of vehicles, has access or is invited”
Ref: http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/9631...
- Accessible Parking
- Unlicensed driving (for example, shared private spaces such as parking lots)
- Drunk driving
So your statement does not invalidate the original point.
Also, when one gets a person who drives the wrong way, maybe one has a good chance to make them reverse. Good luck with a car without a driver.
And if you ran over someone while ignoring signs even on private property (for example), it wouldn't help your criminal defense either.
For example in Australia we have a 'reckless driving' law which would definitely cover the case of you ignoring parking lot rules. Likewise if you had an incident I doubt your insurance company would honor the claim.
Those stop signs IN a parking lot? They legally mean nothing. Police can not give you a ticket for not stopping.
True, but what if smart summon is smart enough to determine that it safe to go wrong way ?
Even if I am a human driving the car, I can pretty easily look down the lane and see it is clear right now, but if I do decide to go down it, I'm pretty much just hoping that another driver doesn't show up and block me.
But at very least its not hard to imagine situation where its safe to drive on a wrong way in a parking lot. For example an empty parking lot.
Even when another car show up and block it, meh not a big deal, its unlikely that the car will hit the other car.
I have yet to come across a problem on an old Jeep Cherokee or Toyota Tacoma that I couldn't figure out how to fix with a little help from the internet, and I'm by no means a car expert. Sometimes the parts cost or size has shut me down, but not the complexity. An electric motor is far simpler than a gasoline engine, so it should be easier to work on, not harder. Can you fix your Tesla's A/C if it breaks? Can most mechanics fix your Tesla's A/C if it breaks?
The point you're arguing boils down to a difference of preferences and philosophy, which is of course perfectly fine. Not everyone has the same preferences.
The last thing I’ll say is this: I think it’s unfortunate that you are so invested in defending your position at all costs that you are unable to separate the argument from passive-aggressive personal attacks.
There's your quote, verbatim, and it's false. If you don't want to get called out for verifiably false statements, I'd avoid making them in the future.
> The last thing I’ll say is this: I think it’s unfortunate that you are so invested in defending your position at all costs that you are unable to separate the argument from passive-aggressive personal attacks.
Responding to factual inaccuracies is hardly "defending a position at all costs," but I'm sorry if it got you worked up.
The last 4 examples are ALL collisions/accidents that involves many parts and a ton of body/structural work... OPs claim was "1 month+ for basic replacement parts to arrive"
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/bjcedf/waiting...
It sure is, but OP was implying that it's the majority when it clearly isn't.
I know that was a big issue in Norway but I have not seen owners posting those complaints lately, so it might have been resolved?
Here: https://youtu.be/_eyxkzaNZX0
Do you get it now? Taking your hands off the steering wheel involves more steps compared to this.
Taking your hands off the steering wheel has never been a problem. Taking your eyes off the road is.
That being said, if you want to set a certain temperature with analog controls, you still need to look at the number (showing the degrees). Still, in other cars you can see that number all the time, you don't have to go into some menu. There is a dedicated physical button for that one function.
I made that video because this keeps coming up, I know how it works...
> It isn't about hands on wheel, its about mental load, a hardware button is muscle memory, I don't have to look at it, I don't have think about it. reply
I don't have to look to use the scroll wheel controls too. Did you not see on the video that they are physical buttons? What's your point exactly?
Oh well. The way that sticker prices keep going up on new pickup trucks, frankensteining old ones together and rebuilding the engines and transmissions is looking like more and more of a viable and cost-effective option.
But because it is a Tesla you are dismissing all the issues and sell it as the best car ever. This wouldn't fly with any other car. If you spent 50k$ on a Audi with poor quality you would probably complain about it.
It is a pattern I see with nearly all the other TM3 owners that dismiss every single issue.
Really trying to understand but what is so different with a Tesla? Is it the Hype factor? The feeling to be in a religious group?
Add to the above the following positives, and you can get an idea why model 3 owners might be ok dealing with a few negatives.
self driving features, ota updates, top safety ratings, pre-cool/heat interior (and now defrost with v10) from app, regenerative braking for one pedal driving, brake pads last longer, low maint costs, lowering overall tco
- Buying experience is so much more pleasant - set price and no pressure
- Service experience has been great - much better than Ford or Mercedes. Mercedes is good, but every time we take it in they want a small fortune for this or that - you really get the sense that it's a profit center, whereas Tesla is not like this
- No more gas stations - full charge every day, and superchargers make trips and range anxiety a non-issue (owned a Ford EV previously and it sucked in this regard), and overall electricity costs are much lower than gas
- We both love the user interface - as easy and intuitive as an iPad. I don't miss the buttons, and it's so much easier to use than the Mercedes or Ford infotainment systems - and integrated connectivity and OTA updates are superior to those systems as well.
- Fast and fun to drive - handles well
- Lots of room for trips - frunk, trunk, rear facing seats - the P85+ is a great family car - we've done road trips with 4 kids, dog and luggage no problem
- I like the styling - P85+ with chrome delete and 21s looks really great
- Less environmental impact - I support Tesla's mission and enjoy doing a small part to combat global warming and advance EV adoption
- I enjoy the gimmicky stuff - games, whoopee cushion
- Much less maintenance (except for the darn 21" tires), no oil changes, and over the lifespan of the car I believe maintenance costs will be much lower
I will say that build quality is subpar - the Mercedes is notably better in this regard - very nice. Additionally, I don't trust autopilot for anything but long road trips (it's excellent for that), it's tried to kill me too many times - I think the marketing hype is way ahead of actual capabilities.
What about in heavy traffic situations? Is autopilot practical for that? I tried to get the driver assistant package (adaptive cruise and lane keeping) for my bmw x4 3 years ago. It was being marketed as good for stop & go situations. But when I talked to the rep, he strongly recommended against it, saying the tech is all right but most drivers would not bother using it. I guess the same can be said about auto parking.
It's really not that we're dismissing issues. I think it's just that these cars get so much right and just have a different philosophy about how cars should work that the little things that annoy people tend to stick out for them a lot.
I have driven lots of luxury cars, owned BMWs, and am a pretty big technophile. There is not a question in my mind that the Teslas are the best cars I've ever owned or had to pleasure of driving. It sounds like the parent that you're claiming we'd be like if it was any other car is upset about the car he was hoping he'd eventually get as opposed to the car he actually got. I don't think any other car, regardless of price, ever gets any better or changes after you buy it. That alone makes the statement a little ridiculous, in my mind.
Tesla is the opposite of Linux philosophy.
If you are really trying to understand, why don't you test drive one? Only then will you truly know. Having owned a Model S (traded it in for a Model 3) and X.
There is no way I will buy any other car. Maybe if MB, BMW or Audi leapfrogs Tesla in both charging infrastructure and software features. But frankly with the velocity of how quickly Tesla releases new features for FREE, I'm not holding my breath.
I think this is the wrong perspective. Daimler, BMW, Volkswagen, and others are investing in common charging infrastructure through joint ventures such as Ionity (https://ionity.eu/en/about.html). Ionity is available to all EVs that can charge via CCS (which includes Teslas).
ICE cars can be fueled at any fuel station regardless of their make and model. EVs should also be able to charge at any charging station regardless of the brand.
Tesla says its mission is to "accelerate the advent of sustainable transport". If that's true then when will Tesla convert their fast chargers to CCS and allow all EVs to charge at them?
There's probably some issues but none that I care about. It feels like driving the future. It's an absolute joy to drive.
No gas stations is pretty nice too.
See, this worries me. Almost all of the Model 3 owners I know tell me that not supporting bluetooth features isn't a big deal because they can safely use their phone while driving. This is completely false. When I last drove in a friend's Model 3 he had to make several manual corrections while using auto pilot on California highways; it's still not good enough for people to be messing with their phone while driving.
Please, don't use your phone while driving.
That said, I would probably trade it in for a Model S 7-seater if it did cost the same here :)
And the nag / inability to sense the presence of hands on wheel... to put it mildly, I would pay a lot of money to revert my AP software.
Maybe you can give me examples of other cheaper cars that might have some of the same things I like. But I am pretty happy with my purchase. Do I think I am in some kind of religious group? I don't think so, but may be I am wrong.
This all feels like reactions I hear when I tell tech bros that I like Apple products. It just feels like people take this shit really seriously.
Right now, in the UK, the Tesla Model 3 is the only option that (i) is 100% electric, (ii) can go from e.g. London to Edinburgh with one charge stop, and (iii) can fit in a standard UK size garage. There are simply no other cars available in the UK at the moment that meet these 3 basic requirements. There are others coming close, e.g. the Jaguar iPace, and some due soon that might meet them fully, e.g. the Volkswagen ID.3 due next year, but right now if these are your requirements you have no other choice. That makes it pretty different, in fact unique. To use the Apple analogy, it would be like if the iPhone was the only smartphone that could last a day without recharging and fit in your pocket, so if you had one (and also believed that one day everyone with feature phones would replace them with smartphones that could fit in your pocket) then that might make you feel ahead of the curve, and you might even be more forgiving if basic functionality like copy and paste wasn't yet available.
I drove one for a couple days. It is a nice experience but a very early product that is far from perfect and the finish was what I would have expected for a cheap Toyota.
And they probably would if the sales volumes and customer upgrade timeframes were anywhere NEAR what they were for phones and tablets.
Nobody wants to look like they pissed their money away so popular expensive stuff gets the benefit of the doubt whether it deserves it or not. For example:
When your Tesla has a shitty interface it's your fault for being too dumb to use it right. When your BMW makes you go through one too many menus to change the GPS routing preferences it's the Germans over-complicating things.
When your S10 snaps in half it's a piece of shit. When your Tacoma snaps in half it's the government's fault for salting the road
When you break a Harbor Freight wrench the wrench sucks. When you break a Snap On you were abusing it.
When the server misunderstands what you said at a 5-star restaurant its your fault for not being clear. When the server at the burger joint does it they're an idiot.
When something is spilled at Whole Foods they haven't cleaned it up yet. When something is spilled at Walmart it's because the store is a dump.
When someone breaks into your car in SF it's because they need to feed their family. When someone's breaks into your car in Buffalo it's because Buffalo is too dysfunctional to control crime.
I'm generalizing a bit here with these examples but you get the point.
I have a model y on order, but if they can't figure out infotainment soon I'll likely cancel it. I spend way too much time driving to deal with garbage infotainment.
If for some reason I'm not driving and I'm still sitting in the car, I'm probably on a conference call.
Tesla's Q2 Gross Profit was 900 million with a Gross profit of -170 Million.
Where did you get the 25B Gross Profit from?
I think this means that the Gross Profit was $4B, not 25. And Gross Profit is Revenue - Cost of Goods Sold [0], so they may still have had losses after R&D and expansion.
The EBITDA number of $2.33B also seems reasonable as a "last four quarters" measure here [1] (which actually lists $2.35B).
0: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossprofit.asp
1: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/ebitda
Do you actually know how read financials? I hope you don't actually dabble in active trading...
If you do, you should stop now and just put your hard-earned money into an index fund and call it a day.
"I don't have to look to use the scroll wheel controls too"
No you have to look at the screen, while you're trying to find the thing that was right there before the update.
Anecdotally speaking no... The item order have NOT changed from updates since 2012. I own the car and I am not speculating here. The UI change I mentioned was mainly aesthetic, similar to the iOS 6 to 7 color/look change.
I even said it should be the same even with the updates on my original post?
Sure, whine on
But I feel like you're pointlessly nitpicking, which is against the hn rules, so please read those.
And my comment addresses that.
Instead, it would be nit picking to say "well, actually, some laws do apply, and since you said all laws accidentally, that makes you wrong!".
In reality, whatever actions the Tesla car in question did, might not be illegal because some laws might not apply.
The original point, that maybe the Tesla car didn't do anything illegal, could be true.
If a Tesla car was driving around a parking lot in the wrong direction it definitely looks like some of those listed e.g. careless, reckless or improper driving would cover it.
So yes there is a good case to be made that it's illegal.
And for the set up, it is analog. There's 2 trackball-like things you jigger around to move your seat, mirrors, and steering column.
It’s the difference between stress and elevated heart rate from the stop and go, versus literally peace and relaxation, while you car avoids all the ridiculous crap that goes on around you while everyone else is on their damn phones.
You look out the window and watch the cars around you driving like absolute garbage, and Tesla keeps you in lane and following appropriately behind the car in front.
It’s about 500ms slow to start from a stop, IMO, once the lead car starts moving. I’ve heard from early access v10 drivers that it’s quicker to start moving again in the latest version. I’ll wait to see that for myself, as placebo effect can be strong.
It’s a weird phenomenon. I’m getting home at exactly the same speed, but because I’m not actuating the accelerator, brakes, or steering and just monitoring the higher order situation, suddenly the traffic just doesn’t fucking matter once AutoPilot is turned on.
With more time to focus on the alertness and driving patterns of the people around you (instead of lanekeeping) you do notice just awful, awful driving practices of everyone around you.
I have no interest in discussing your intelligence, but but once you start bringing out "shortseller fud" your credibility goes straight out of the window. Even claiming that Elon is behaving like a jerk because he's hiding from hit squads hired by Saudi Aramco would be both more plausible and make more sense.
Really? Because Elon said so you think I blindly believe it? What a snooty baseless statement.
What is this then? https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/tsla/short-int...
Also this: http://shortsqueeze.com/shortinterest/stock/TSLA.htm
More: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslainvestorsclub/comments/brj8zf/...
Should I go on? Let's stick to just facts, and get off your high horse.
Repeating the few tired talking points ("it's the shorts!", "you just didn't drive one", "pecking at 5 buttons in random positions on a touch screen is easier than pressing one physical button") just gives a pretty unflattering impression of Tesla's fans.
Because that seems to be the consensus among us owners who give test drives during Tesla meetups. Also add neighbors to the mix who ask about the cars.
I now referred 6 people this way. Not once in 34 years have I had given test drives in my previous (mostly german) cars or other people become curious enough to knock on my door.
Surely, there's something interesting going on here isn't there?
So you can drive like 50 mph or do donuts, violate crosswalks with pedestrians in them, etc? Does your jurisdiction have no laws on reckless driving, exhibition of motor, etc?
Sure the stop sign might not be the legal height required by your roadway authority but see if that stops a cop from citing you if you blow through it without observing traffic (aka drive recklessly).
Hell, I know people who have received seat belt tickets while operating a motor vehicle in a parking lot.
The cops can cite you for anything anywhere anytime. It's on you to call them out for bullshit.
I don't think it has to do with calling out bullshit. Though likely some laws are about operating a motor vehicle in general and others are around operation in a roadway.
Why don't you let people buy what they please with their hard earned money?
I own a P100D and the magic wore off for me. Apparently it hasn't for you.
Peace.
Huh? how so, can you provide examples?
> I own a P100D and the magic wore off for me. Apparently it hasn't for you.
It certainly hasn't, to the point that we got rid all of our gas vehicles for a 3/X (Owned an S since 2015). Also, four of our neighbors also randomly rang our doorbell in the last 6 months asking about the cars. An underrated feature of these cars is safety, I can't put a price on that.
I showed them the features, gave them test drives and told them my honest opinion and experience. A few weeks later, they all ended up buying one.
Other than performance and range they haven't hit on ANY of the high order bits.
Also Teslas are the safest cars. Not sure what you're talking about
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-elon-musk-open-supe...
They open it up and hope other people will adopt it with the goal of profiting Apple that still controls the specs.
In addition they can also claim that other players are bad players because they didn't use the "open" specs.
That's not how it should work. Other EV makers are doing this correctly with an open consortium. A single brand (Tesla) shouldn't dictate what standards to use.
The CCS consortium (composed of mainly GM and german manufacturers) is also not without fault... They completely ignored the already established CHAdeMO standard, because it's developed by five major Japanese automakers. But it seems that Tesla gets all the flak, when the reality is the whole industry do not wan't to hash it out.
CCS charging providers allow Teslas to charge on their networks today. When will Tesla reciprocate and convert to CCS?
> No one else will adopt Tesla's standard.
Why won't they? They don't have to pay any licensing fees and would save $$ on R&D.
> CCS charging providers allow Teslas to charge on their networks today.
Because Tesla have chosen to adapt it or at least provide Tesla owners an adaptor for CCS/ChadeMo. Why can't others do the same for the SuperCharger network? Give me a good reason why.
> When will Tesla reciprocate and convert to CCS?
Let me just phone a Tesla VP and ask. /s Are you seriously asking this?
100% of Tesla 3 owners would get an "S" if only they could afford it.
If you don't know how to read financial data, then probably. The site you linked contradicts what you've been whining about... According to it, the current short interest is currently at 29%.. By definition anything above 20% is considered to be extremely high.
Looking at your post history, it's also very clear that you have great disdain not only for Tesla but Elon. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy the cars of like the guy. But here you are, shitting on people who love a product.
>Repeating the few tired talking points...just gives a pretty unflattering impression of Tesla's fans.
How is this impacting your daily life? Does it bother you that much that it's making it hard for you to sleep at night? Or do you just get off on spouting anger?
I don't go around telling other people who love a certain product/brand to shut up. Just because you don't like something, others don't have to share the same opinion as you... Even more so, if it's not based on facts but emotion.
You may define "extremely high" at any level you want, but you don't get to claim that Tesla is shorted to any kind of unusual, extreme, never seen before level. None of those companies gets to claim that "it's all shorts' fault" either.
You driving a Tesla probably affects me positively (well, apart from the taxpayer fleecing angle anyway), but the complete lack of intellectual honesty on the part of Tesla supporters is... not even annoying, it's rather amusing. Where else do you get to see people seriously claiming that it is more convenient and safer to hunt and peck several buttons on a touch screen that pressing one on a door? Only in Tesla world!
Ohh.. Interesting. So not only is that you have severe anger issues, but you're also holier than thou. Geez guy, get a grip. What have you done for humanity? Look at a mirror and yourself that question.
But you know...I truly feel sorry for you. I hope you find peace, whatever pain you're suffering inside.
Tldr; I drive a fleet of hacked cars on the road daily. Its fine.
It literally records and reports back to HQ. If you ever make any statement that Tesla doesn't like, they will use what should be your own data against you.
Surveillance capitalism. Ownership as a service.
They also restrict the repairability via software.
It's as far from gnu as its possible to be.
Wow. Take out the tinfoil hat Sir. I'll PayPal you $1000USD if you can cite this ridiculous claim.
> They also restrict the repairability via software.
You CAN perform repairs on them, you can even access the parts catalog (https://epc.teslamotors.com) for free when most manufacturers charge for this or even restrict it to dealers only. Need a part? Just call up a service center!
Many people have also refurbished Tesla battery packs and even rebuilt salvaged cars: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/my-first-model-3-reb...
> Wow. Take out the tinfoil hat Sir. I'll PayPal you $1000USD if you can cite this ridiculous claim.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/03/the-custo...
https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-... about this ridiculously detailed releasing of data https://www.tesla.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive
https://electrek.co/2016/05/11/tesla-model-s-crashed-own-sum...
or Teslas own privacy policy, which says that they may remotely collect telematics data including speed, odmeter, battery charging, use of charging stations (linked to location), infotainment system data, camera images, short video clips, lock/unlock data, horn honking, etc. They also collect detailed position data in many cases, but say that they store it in a non identifiable way. While the policy doesn't specifically mention recording torque applied to the steering wheel, presumably they must include that somewhere, as they have announced to the press that the user didn't have their hands on the steering wheel. The policy also says that they "also may use information we collect for other purposes, including: For our business purposes", a vague and expansive definition. We've seen in the examples above what they consider this to include - disputing customers accounts of what happened if it makes Tesla look bad.
https://www.tesla.com/about/legal
I presume your offer of payment was hyperbole, but in my view, even if you disagree with the links I posted, I have certainly cited the claim. Email me@kybernetikos.com if you actually intend to back up your words.
You would be injured or killed if you tried taking an unmonitored trip of any reasonable length - ON THE HIGHWAY - in either, with autopilot on and with the nag disabled using a weight. If you think you don't have to routinely make manual corrections to save yourself from dying I think you are either lying or delusional.
> If you think you don't have to routinely make manual corrections to save yourself from dying I think you are either lying or delusional.
What makes you think owners are not aware of this? Try asking that question on the /r/rteslamotors subreddit and you'll see that owners will quickly educate you and tell you to keep your eyes on the road.
You also get a visual warning to do so, whenever you engage Autopilot.
They said their car drives itself every day. "Drives itself" means that the car does all of the work of driving without requiring human intervention or involvement. And that technology, of course, does not exist in any car at the moment.
What else could "drives itself" possibly mean?
In other words being on your phone isn't a big deal because you'll be safe. But those other people you might hit? What about them? Do you have any care in that direction?
These customers almost always sue, but thankfully the U.S. justice system favors factual information.
A prime example of this was the recently released NTSB data on the Model S driver that crashed on the back of a Firetruck. The media had a field day and sensationalized the story and the owner tried to blame autopilot.
But the NTSB report noted that not only did he had his hands off the wheel he was also having breakfast!:
“I was having a coffee and a bagel. And all I remember, that truck, and then I just saw the boom in my face and that was it,” the driver told NTSB investigators."
Source: https://www.culvercityobserver.com/story/2019/09/05/news/nts...
NTSB Safety Report: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/HA...
The report states that probable cause was the Tesla driver’s lack of response and inattention and the driver’s use of the system in ways inconsistent with guidance and warnings from the manufacturer.
So tell me, how can Tesla defend itself from such customers who abuse and misuse these 2 ton machines? I'm curious on what you think is the best approach to solve this "he said/she said" problem by not using factual and irrefutable data.
It's fine for Tesla's to use adapters, but it would be better to just accept the reality that the timing didn't work out and join the group rather than waiting for the group to change (which at this point won't ever happen).
Because they've standardized on CCS. Tesla tried to set a standard and it failed. It's time to switch to the standard.
The European Tesla Model 3 comes with a CCS type 2 combo port, so there's no technical impediment to implementing CCS.
> Why can't others do the same for the SuperCharger network?
More adapters we don't need. Everyone else is CCS, why isn't Tesla? Why should everyone manufacture and carry around adapters when it's much easier for Tesla to just switch its superchargers to CCS.
> Are you seriously asking this?
Yes. If Tesla genuinely wants to "accelerate the advent of sustainable transport" then it's time to get onboard with a common charging standard.
In EU maybe. Tesla Superchargers are more prevalent in the North America. The real reason nobody wanted to adopt the Tesla network is because CCS is a standard created by competitors (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) its bad optics for them if they do.
Also, have you experienced charging on a Tesla Supercharger compared to CCS stations? It's a night and day difference... No sane person would choose CCS:
Tesla: I just tap my charge port to open it and plug the connector. DONE. My credit card that's linked to my account is billed.
CCS: Take out my wallet, use a card or RFID, decipher the menu, press some buttons and only then can I start charging.
If you need instructions like the picture below, you already failed in usability:
Add Hyundai to the list: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-kia-ionity-electr...
The reasons for CCS are irrelevant. The practical reality is CCS is the standard now. It's time for Tesla to get in the boat and row.
> Tesla: I just tap my charge port to open it and plug the connector. DONE. My credit card that's linked to my account is billed.
The Mercedes Me account works the same way across CCS charging networks for the Mercedes EQC.
Electrify America, ChargePoint, and EVgo have roaming agreements to allow the one account to be billed across all networks: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/evgo-electrify-america-ch...
When will Tesla start being a team player?
Yes. Tesla tried to set a standard and they failed. The industry did not adopt it. It's time to move on to CCS.
> Tesla has already deployed and invested on many supercharger stations.
That's not an issue. Tesla doesn't need to start from zero. They can retrofit the chargers for CCS without too much trouble.
Care to elaborate?
> They can retrofit the chargers for CCS without too much trouble.
Do you have experience running a business? That's easy for someone watching from the sidelines to say. But the reality is that something like this have financial and logistical hurdles.
As of Sept this year, there are currently 14,081 individual Supercharger stalls at 1,604 locations worldwide.
Retrofitting all of those is hardly "without too much trouble". That's a fact.
No, the fact is they've already done exactly that in Europe: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-dual-charge-ccs...
But Tesla is still not allowing other EVs to charge at their chargers.
Tesla only needs to do three things to move to CCS properly: 1. Put a CCS plug on the charger. 2. Implement the CCS protocol. 3. Allow all EVs to charge at the charger.
Easy peasy and civic-minded. There are no downsides here.
If so, it’s constantly disengaging to the point it seems unusable. This is not anywhere remotely 95% of what AutoPilot does.
Look at Autonomous Day presentations on things like cut-in detection and lane changes. Look at what the active accident avoidance technology accomplishes in the real world. The Toyota system is not even trying to do any of that.
Hi. Safe following distance is the distance required to safely stop at whatever speed you are going. At a typical speed of 90km/hr (that's usually when this "feature" gets engaged - slowing me to 10km/hr under the limit because that's what someone in front of me is doing), the safe stopping distance is around 80-90 meters (perception+braking in good conditions). The shortest follow distance setting I seemed able to find was around double this distance.
tl;dr: I do not find that the adaptive cruise control is engaged at a safe following distance. Indeed, I think it makes me less safe as a driver, because it slows me down arbitrarily without any visual or auditory notification.
* All Acura models
* All Audi models
* BMW 5/6/7/X3/X4
* Cadillac CT6
* Ford Edge
* All Honda models (mostly at higher speed)
* ... and so on.
Source: https://www.cars.com/articles/which-cars-have-self-driving-f...
This notion, particularly among Tesla owners, that active lane centering and steering is a Tesla exclusive, is at times wilfully blindered, to the obnoxious.
The last time I went through this was with a Tesla owner who swore that every other car's Blind Spot monitoring sucked, because "only Tesla paid attention to the speed of the car in the blind spot", which is... false. Even my 2015 A4 had adaptive blind spot monitoring.
Most to all mid to high end vehicles have all this stuff. Tesla isn't miraculous in automotive technology. Which isn't to say they haven't done great things. But even reading this list... ugh. Was the ability to watch Netflix or sing "Car-aoke" the most demanded of new features for Tesla owners?
Autopilot is more than just "active lane centering and steering" (known as LKAS) Autopilot is a combination of a lot of things (TACC + Autosteer + Auto Lane Change + Auto Lane Keep + NOA etc...)
Autosteer is also way ahead of everything else out there right now. The competition is mainly just TACC and basic LKAS.
For example, I am yet to see so other cars perform in conditions like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/d32eo3/autopil...
> Most to all mid to high end vehicles have all this stuff
Yeah mostly an extra option and costs $$$. Basic autopilot and a ton of safety features are FREE on Tesla. It's actually pathetic how other car manufacturers charge for advanced safety features.
The question was genuine, not dismissive, as I haven't heard of many autosteer systems in production cars. There are a handful AFAIK.
Yes, it is. The parent just made a dismissive, " Does it steer and lane center in general, besides when you drift out of lane?", implying that other cars don't.
Other cars also have other features beyond LKAS, too. That's just the focus of this article.
> For example, I am yet to see so other cars perform in conditions like this:
"Removed because there's no way to verify it was actually autopilot performing the maneuver. We are going to make a rule where future dashcam autopilot vids will be removed."
> Yeah mostly an extra option and costs $$$. Basic autopilot and a ton of safety features are FREE on Tesla.
And basic intelligent services and safety are free/standard on most new cars too. While advanced features might cost money, so too does advanced autopilot on a Tesla too, so let's not act like there's that much of a difference. What are some of these "basic safety features" that are free on a Tesla that "other manufacturers [pathetically] charge for"?
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/d3yx03/round_2...
So either (a) the car you drove was defective or (b) you are radically misjudging your following distance. I know you are inclined to assume the former, but keep in mind that humans are terrible at judging distances when moving at high speeds, and most people leave way too little space between them and the car in front of them.
(While I haven't driven a Toyota Corolla with adaptive cruise control, I have driven a Subaru Forester, which uses roughly the same following distance; I find it to be a little closer than I'd prefer on my own, but accept it for the convenience and because I assume it can get away with a shorter following distance, since it is not reliant on human reflexes to stop in an emergency.)
Not that this is even a problem in the fist place, I've used dozens of cars with ACC, no Toyota in particular though, and all of them allow adjusting within almost armreach close to a long 5sec gap. Put closer distance in heavy traffic to prevent lane jumping in front of you and 5 sec for comfortable highway cruising.
