Speculating on the Animal Crossing Turnip Market(insignificantbits.com) |
Speculating on the Animal Crossing Turnip Market(insignificantbits.com) |
Generally, the 1/e rule in this situation implies you should evaluate prices until Wednesday afternoon for the max sell price up to that point, and then sell the next time you see a price higher than that max (or Saturday afternoon whichever comes first). You won't always get the best price this way, but you'll perform better than any other know strategy. This strategy works with friends, too, as you can account for their prices in this strategy.
The only reason this may not be the best strategy here is that there are ways of having some information about future prices.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimal_stopping
I am not super well versed on the secretary problem but I think some people have already looked into it for AC [1].
In general, what I was looking was to associate a risk profile to a series of decisions of either HOLD or SELL(amount) given the current probability distribution.
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GAMETHEORY/comments/fn2grx/optimizi...
You can afford to be far more risky than the model suggests if you have a few friends or an active Discord group because on any given day you can almost surely find an island with a profitable price if you need it in a pinch.
It's been super impressive to watch how quickly the devs there have built out really useful features, and managed the growth in interest - pretty sure the Turnip Exchange Discord is >22,000 people.
And for sure, if you have access to other people islands a lot of this becomes moot, as you will probably just sell at the highest price in any of your friends islands :)
Turnips are a terrible way to make bells in the single-player game. You have to buy a stack of them for around 10,000 bells and then wait all week for the market to pop. Let's say you see it pop to 130-160, which is a fairly common range in my experience. For all the hassle of buying and storing turnips (AC's inventory management is high effort and turnips have additional restrictions) you might net 6,000 bells per inventory space. Thing is, Animal Crossing regularly generates bugs and insects which sell for 2,000-8,000 bells. They are also one inventory space, and they are available all the time with no expiration or holding strategy needed. There are also abundant resources like iron ore, where a crafted stack of 30 ore in one inventory space will net you 22,500 bells in profit. Turnips are low value per inventory slot.
To get around this, players coordinated online. Sometimes turnips hit a jackpot price in the 300-600 bell range. So that stack is suddenly worth 60,000 and now we see inventory efficiency worth playing with turnips. All you have to do is join an online group and someone will be having a jackpot day every day. You do have to share profits with the host but the scheme is still worth it.
This is a big economy mistake. 60,000 bells is quite a lot of money in AC, and a backpack full of turnips turns into 2,400,000 bells which is enough money to bypass most of the game. Avg item price is magnitude 3-4 so these are effectively free now. All from doing a single turnip scheme. Of course players will do this with multiple backpack loads and become deep millionaires living off bank account interest.
Nintendo's second mistake was to fix this exploit by attacking a symptom and not the root cause. They reduced interest rates by a magnitude, making it balanced for ppl with huge savings accounts and worthless for anyone playing the game as intended. We of course see the folly in this approach in OPs blog where his wife was punished for playing the game as intended. She is now incentivized to join the turnip schemers, making the problem worse.
Nintendo should either cap the amount of turnips you can sell on a friend's island, reduce the turnip value for island visitors, or disallow visitors selling turnips altogether. Then the bank accounts can remain as is.
Anyone with experience tuning f2p economies would have seen this leak a mile away and prevented it from ever happening. Now Nintendo only has bad options since removing player assets is never an option. Once you leaked you leaked.
Musings from a former f2p economy designer.
Plotting the different strategies, then fitting a straight line (passing through the risk free point) would allow us to say "strategies falling above the line have market beating Sharpe ratios and strategies falling below are underperforming".
You'll notice I am returning the expected return and variance of the returns. I didn't talk about it too much (besides a high level risk vs. returns at the end) because I didn't want to introduce another concept, but you can readily compare the sharpe ratio using those.
I did a quick analysis (which I had put here but I can't properly format it) here: https://gist.github.com/scast/d7ab3a0f5c5458c11d8624cc73806d...
I think it's absolutely fascinating. I'm not by any means a person with credentials to be doing psychoanalysis, but what it seems like is some people are hurt by the fact that other people are able to accomplish more and benefit from it while they are playing 'fair and square' for almost no practical benefit. It seems like a mix of jealousy and harm to their own feeling of accomplishment.
Which relates to this comment for this reason: I'd argue nothing in this game is really fun on its own. It's a busy work simulator. The only real reward is the end result of having done the work. So I think people derive fun from this game in ways that are unusual for video games. Cheating here feels more like "cheating" in real life, to some.
And if you watch different people play this game, you will see that kind of thing play out. Different people get entirely different things out of Animal Crossing games.
I'd argue folks who are ending friendships and getting genuinely angry over time traveling have an unhealthy attachment, but it feels like unhealthy attachment over fiction and leisure has been on the rise over the past ...decade? or so, and so maybe that's not anything in particular to do with Animal Crossing (though, maybe it is partially to do with quarantine, right now.)
Which isn't down to the code, I should add, but more that they don't (yet?) know how many times the random generator can be spun outside of the turnip price price setting which obviously makes their predictions very finger in the wind.
If your measurements are correlated (as prices generally are -- if they were lower than average yesterday, they are more likely to be lower than average today), the secretary-problem approach will not work.
By cheating, tho'. It's the same as saying people who get rich by dodging taxes or defrauding people are "accomplishing more" than people who play 'fair and square'.
(Personally, I don't care if people time travel and island-hop to grind turnips all day - it affects nothing about my game and my experience.)
> folks who are ending friendships and getting genuinely angry over time traveling have an unhealthy attachment
Or they might feel that someone who is ok cheating at a zero-stakes, zero-effect game might not be a great person after all. It's the difference between, say, cheating your taxes purely because you want to be rich vs dodging your taxes because you have to feed your family.
I don’t cheat at Animal Crossing. No real reason not to, I just don’t feel like it. I am not in a rush or anything. But to me, Animal Crossing is (and I mean, to be fair, literally is) a computer program and “cheating” is really just “using in unintended ways” that are not really much different from modding games (that are not intended to be.)
I can’t tell if you are playing devil’s advocate or not but I view this argument as being pretty much projection. I think everyone should feel guilt-free to explore video games and the arts however they enjoy so as long as nobody is directly being harmed by it. I personally would bet the farm and some change that there’s no correlation between cheating in Animal Crossing and “not [being] a great person.”
And I’m not saying this as though I view video games as purely being software and experience absolutely no emotion. I am pretty much saying that for Animal Crossing, but there are plenty of games where I felt very immersed and felt empathy/sympathy for characters the way I would in other realms of fiction and indeed, real life. I couldn’t do “genocide route” in Undertale, for example. But, that also does not mean that I engage in this stuff as if it’s real, because of course, it’s not. It’s fiction. It’s walled off into its own space where I can explore and experience things in ways that I probably wouldn’t and maybe would not want to in real life. I certainly do not condone my actions in Grand Theft Auto as good, but I assure you I am no closer to committing such offenses in real life.
(Aside: I think the video game violence debates are equally fascinating as a subject matter, on that note.)
I am also not at all suggesting how you consume this content has no bearing on reality, but I am certainly saying I believe it’s very non-trivial and fair to handwave as being too complicated and personal to make pure blanket statements about.
I went a bit rambley here, sorry. My thoughts on this subject matter are complicated, although it isn’t really something I hold too personal, especially because the reality is I play exceedingly few video games anymore.
I don’t really condemn anyone for their opinion on this either, but I do feel it is a good moment to reflect and broaden the horizons (pun intended) regarding how people consume and enjoy games. Again, watching people play this game has been absolutely fascinating, no two people I’ve seen appear to get the same exact thing out of it!
Not really - I can well believe that someone could/would view another person who "cheats" (their opinion) at zero stake games to be a less worthy person. I wouldn't personally condemn someone for "cheating" Animal Crossing - I'd think they were missing the point of the game per my perspective, mind, and it would definitely confuse me about their outlook.
Same as if someone cheated at Monopoly or Scrabble whilst playing board games at home, I guess.
> I think everyone should feel guilt-free to explore video games and the arts however they enjoy
In an ideal world, yes. (I do try but having been a ridiculously cynical and judgemental arsehole for many a year, it is taking some time to adjust.)
> no two people I’ve seen appear to get the same exact thing out of it!
I think that's the beautiful thing about Animal Crossing.
What does cheating even mean then?
(I personally don't care at all. I am secretly hoping that people are playing this game because they literally have nothing else to do because of COVID-19, and that when people can go outside again, people will not be getting $11,000 a month on Patreon to predict turnip prices. But obviously I am very out of touch on all of this.)
Assuming you mean "wavedashing" (the only vaguely relevant thing I could find), and given that https://www.ssbwiki.com/Wavedash claims it was explicitly left in as a mechanic during development, no, I'd not consider that a "cheat".
Would you?
>“Adding all the seasonal events by updates wasn’t our way to shun away time travel by any means,” Kyogoku said. “But Animal Crossing is a game that users are able to play and enjoy throughout the year.”
Of course though, this worldview is pretty hard to really get behind because it’s even more arbitrary than usual. Some of the developers may dislike time travel and others might endorse it.
Moreover, opinions of the developers may even shift. On the topic of Wavedashing, Sakurai expresses discontent for it:
> While Sakurai noted that wavedashing was widespread in an interview with Nintendo Power, he disliked the technique, as he felt it had led to a significant degree of separation between beginning and advanced players.
All in all, even trying to be very generous and non-presumptive, I am having trouble seeing the argument as having a rational basis. It seems like one born and mostly justified only from emotional response.
That may be but it's not a mechanic that's specifically in the game itself, is it? Which means you can't (honestly) equate it to wave dashing to make a point.
> I am having trouble seeing the argument as having a rational basis.
Which argument? The one that time travel in Animal Crossing is "cheating"? In that case, go nuts, time travel all you want! But at least allow others their opinion on the topic.