https://onemileatatime.com/qatar-airways-fires-pilot/
https://viewfromthewing.com/qatar-airways-firing-pilots-and-...
It's suggested in the first article that the pilot had failed to pass the necessary exams:
"The other side of the story here is that the pilot has spent the past six years completing a two year training course, and still hasn’t passed any of the tests necessary to become a pilot. The airline became fed up, and since they’re firing pilots anyway and trying to cut costs, they also decided to terminate their contract with her at this point."
But this has always been the flip side of doing business in the Gulf: you're paid well, but once you're no longer useful, you'll be discarded without a second thought. This happened during the GFC as well and there were plenty of stories of once high-flying expats sleeping in their cars.
Given an equal choice between buying something from two companies I'd choose the one that had been nicer to its employees and community.
Case in point - I own a (quite small) number of shares in UK retailer Hotel Chocolat. I'd probably have sold them if it wasn't for their apparently decent policy: https://www.hotelchocolat.com/uk/corona-virus-updates.html
e.g., https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fifa-qa...
They don't have much info about their project. I kind of assume they won't follow up.
I distinctly remember EasyJet: you basically had to go to a bank to get the loan for the whole cost of your pilot training (300k GBP iirc) in your name. If you failed to pass any of the mandatory exams and steps during your training, you’d be kicked out and have to repay the loan back on your own. If you made it as a pilot, EasyJet would deduct part of your salary to pay back.
It seemed like a very shitty arrangement for the cadet/pilot wannabe where you basically shoulder most of the risk for the privilege of working as a pilot for EasyJet.
I didn’t enroll to become a pilot. I don’t regret it.
Qatar Airlines pilot requirements are ICAO ATP, which you can convert to an FAA license, or just go fly in China.
(It's more difficult to go the opposite way, from FAA to European (EASA.))
You will never hear of such a situation where the pilot is billed for ab initio training in the US because US airlines do very little such training, if any. When US airlines partner with a flight training academy, they just promise to let graduates apply. :)
Sometimes US airlines will pay for (jet) type ratings, which cost in the $20k range, and charge the pilot if they leave within a year.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...
He has the advantage of holding the balance in his account, and this matter doesn't stick in front of any court. So good luck to QAW to see the color of this money.
this story comes down to a contract dispute, the pilot signed an agreement as part of being given training and if the company is guilty of anything it is guilty of letting it go for this many years.
sometimes the little guy is at fault
From what I remember this company does not get the better reviews, even when compared with other companies from the same region.
Really, we need a law that turns it into a loan automatically with reasonable terms at the end of employment. But other than that, this is no different to any other student loan. Boomers killed free education, so now everyone pays one way or another.
Unfortunately employment practices in that part of the world are Horrific - its just normally poor navvies employed on building sites get the worst of it - see some of the coverage of the word cup construction in Quatar
Im not saying this is nice or positive. Just that it's totally legal and pretty standard.
I know because my first proper employer did NOT put this clause in my contract. Then they tried to introduce it for me and others after adding it for new employees. So I (we, there were 5 of us) actually sought legal advice.
The lawyer was surprised it wasn't in the original contract (and it's been in all the employment contracts I've signed since). Since it wasn't there, they couldn't enforce it or make us sign it. So we were lucky.
Its a hard thing to decide because the alternative is banning this sort of program. Then the only people who get to be pilots are the ones with 130k to spare...
This anglo-centric assumption is killing me on HN. My "boomer" parents were deep in a communist state at my age and they could only dream of the quality of life that we enjoy today. But hey they are "boomers" so fuck them, right?
Sorry to be anglocentric. I try not to be, but it slips through sometimes. :)
Your original comment is still super US-centric. I live in a western European country. In my country, the "boomer" generation and their parents built the welfare state that gave me free education from kindergarten to PhD. I'm forever grateful for that, and the social safety nets they put in place.
Out of interest, what country do you live in? I thought all of Western Europe had welfare etc before the boomers took over?
Seems like a fair concern for a company not to have their freshly trained employees get poached by the competition the day they start being useful. (Although IMO it would be better to structure it as a lower salary while in training and a bonus which vests in a year.) But people they have decide to fire is a different matter.
I can understand why. If you don't have to pay 130k back as long as you get fired, that's a huge incentive to get yourself fired right?
I think it's a dumb problem caused by governments failing to fund training/education. But as long as that's the case, people need to read their contracts and only sign things they understand...
Lots of questions, but also: Can they actually collect this?
I guess my proposal of "half pay while training & a post-dated check" probably lines up with "leave our employ for any reason".
Like most people I simply ignored the request!
Most of the training I was getting was hyper specific to particular financial/ERP applications that if I left I'd be running away from ever seeing those applications again....
Quickie edit...
Google says the RAF has 1830 pilots and the Navy about 200 more but the UK has over 10,000 commercial pilots. So I guess at least half the commercial pilots trained outside the military. So they're either self funding or getting these employer funded loans?
And in the UK you would NOT want to cross BALPA (pilots union) if an airline tried this.
In the UK they could technically be discharged through bankruptcy. But that takes a long time and ruins your life (you’ll be barred from a lot of carriers and lose basically everything).
In Qatar, it’s more complex. They use a weird mix of sharia and more western law. I’m not convinced these loans would be sharia compliant so maybe there is some wriggle room there? On the other hand suing the state airline in an absolute monarchy with no judicial independence may be difficult. I don’t think Qatar has a concept of bankruptcy (as all credit should be secured and limited against collateral). So they’re between a rock and a hard place.
Maybe they can flee and find a country (countries) that won’t enforce a Qatar civil judgement? But I think the west generally will so not sure where that leaves...