Okay, source code, then what about chip schematics and everything on the hardware layer you can't audit for?

Google neither uses stock Android on Pixel phone nor release full source code of pixel phones, so why should only the Chinese be forced to do that?

Before anyone downvotes or questions if Pixel uses Stock Android, ask yourself why Pixels have Pixel exclusive features not available in AOSP or not used by Android 1 phones like Nokia

I would like to see India start replacing inexpensive phones made in China with inexpensive phones made in India. In all cases it's better if India develops their own industry further such that they rely on China less.

If they can make iPhones in India, they can certainly figure out how to build competitive, inexpensive phones to replace those made in China.

I expect this to increase prices for chinese phones. It is well known that xiaomi operates on thin margin so they can push their IT services and recoup the cost.

The issue is not hardware or OS software, it's content control.

CCP has a unit within almost every Chinese company making sure they adhere to CCP policy it's impossible to avoid when data is on the other side of the fence.

how does this work in practice ?

is there some kind of signature you can use to ascertain that the code you have is what's actually on the device ?

Is it possible to do the same for the SIM (as I understand it, it is its own microsystem and intelligence companies have already _at least_ attempted to insert their code in there) ?

what about play services or its equivalent ? These are often closed source and have lots of system permissions (since they handle lots of capabilities, they need a broad access).

edit : for clarity, I don't think it is a bad idea, I just wonder how doable it is.

Oneplus is one of the most lineageos-friendly vendors out there.

Are you kidding ?? Source means nothing if you can inject code through resources. ever heard about virus authors being ahead of virus scanners?

Sort of calls into question the quality of the citizen in a modern democracy if they are asked to make judgments on war and industry and yet they cannot be trusted with online video games.

Really country's claiming interests is so damn vague it should be a massive red flag as it can justify just about anything including say leveling Mount Everest to try to bring in more rain.

Do you have a reference for this? Would love to see how this is written down and enforced.

Heresay is always popular I guess. Unless you have proof.

You can also changed the Chinese to American, China to US, Xiaomi/Huawei to Apple/Android and it's all the same context.

It's surprising to see people in the US defend tiktok without realizing what's actually going on behind the scenes. Every company that does business in China, especially if hugely successful, will have the government step in to intervene and spy.

I as an Indian whole heartedly would welcome such moves by China. Even more opportunity for domestic manufacturers to UP the game.

Jio already proudly claims, No Chinese Equipment on their network.

I think app stores across mobile OSes maintain region specific marketplaces. Developer accounts are also able to be localized. I assume it is trivial for, say, Google to block all apps from Chinese developers on the Play Store for any customer localized to India.

I believe most of this stuff is asking Google and Apple to remove the apps in questions from their Indian app stores.

If you visit r/india do visit r/indiadiscussion as well to see how r/india bans anyone that does not go against their views. It is the most censored subreddit i have ever seen and likely a battleground of information warfare.

I would just suggest third party persons reading both this and above post to visit and analyze it for themselves.

> https://internetfreedom.in is doing important work in challenging the Indian government's surveillance and censorship apparatus.

> They're active, from time to time, on r/India as well.

I'm all for challenging government surveillance and censorship. But the irony here is laughable given r/India's propensity to hand out bans like chocolates for anyone not subscribing to the groupthink.

/r/india is very toxic and the mods are on powertrip.

try /r/indiadiscussion which is right leaning or /r/unitedstatesofindia which claims to be center

PUBG was raking in the cash in India. I know quite a few people who snuck in games in breaks, and nearly every delivery guy I saw waiting around restaurants and stores was playing PUBG. PUBG mobile streams on YouTube were massive. IMO this is probably more about the economics, given we have no way of verifying whether or not PUBG was actually stealing any data.

Tencent has a stake in Activision-blizzard so they may ban CoD later

Maybe it thinks such a lawsuit has a chance in the US but not in India.

Theres word on street that Ruling party has bought Supreme Court Chief justice.

China isn't dumb, Indian justice system doesn't result in any justice for businsines unless ruling party's hand are greased.

I think two important factors in play here, one is like what others said about better trust on the legal system in US to be relatively more independent; second I guess is just US market is too lucrative and significant to just let go.

Are there any laws in India that would allow a banned company to sue the government?

Indians would have to buy a more expensive phone from Samsung in the middle of a massive recession that gives them less money in their pockets.

Xiaomi now makes their phones in India.

https://in.event.mi.com/in/made-in-india

I mean, I guess that would be a great benefit to the non-Chinese competitors then, Samsung, Google, Apple, etc. I don't see that this would be hugely disruptive to the country.

Is there some reason you think it would be?

Retroactive taxes was from previous gov. After recently launched PLI scheme, India has record high FDI inflows[1]. FDI was flat in 18 and 19, started increasing last year after corporate tax cut and further after PLI scheme.

Of course, India still has long way to go regarding Ease of Doing Business, with byzantine land and permit laws, capital crunch for MSME etc.. Some states like UP, Gujarat are trying to get around byzantine laws by abolishing them for few years. And of course GDP will contract after complete lockdown for a quarter.

1. https://www.financialexpress.com/economy/modis-incentive-sch...

2. https://www.financialexpress.com/economy/modis-incentive-sch...

> and now the arbitrary control over Chinese companies when China is probably the largest private investor in India right now

I do not fully agree with some of the other points made, but this I completely disagree. There are many reasons the banning of Chinese money and influence in India is a long term strategic security issue.

For the immediate short-term, there are Chinese tanks, fighter planes, artillery and soldiers gathering across the border with India, with multiple incidents and provocations. India still has the debacle of 1962 Sino-Chinese war fresh in it's mind. Couple that with the recent aggressive posturing, land grabs and general disregard for the rights of other countries displayed by China, it is obvious why Chinese capital and companies have to be banned or reduced.

You cannot have trade / exchanges with a country that is on the verge of attacking you. The very fact that China chose a military display of power to provoke India, very clearly shows that China does not respect India and it's sovereignty.

Now you may couple this with other aspects of Indian domestic and foreign policies, but those have to be solved through other channels. Not by military force.

Perhaps you are from the US, and believe that global flow of capital is more important and sacred than other issues, but I would encourage you to have a look from a different perspective.

Investments by Chinese companies in various countries around the world makes it clear that China is trying to influence internal politics of other nations through it's money and loans.

Please read how Chinese companies have wreaked havoc in Africa and South-east Asia.

At this point of time, China simply cannot be trusted by India and Indians. Neither should other countries. Because, in the long term, China has plans for world domination and being a super power. But that is not based on sound values, like that in the US constitution, but based on authoritarian diktats and a world view where Chinese usually see no one is their equal or even close to being one.

Clearly you lack the faith to trust in the wisdom of malicious demagogues supported by hysterical crowds

Please cite your sources, exactly and to the point. Lockdown if executed in any way would have been abused by the people.

People went on a rampage in *religious ( Taliban linked)" gatherings, India didn't had much cases but these bunch of people made sure the cases spread.

It's the people to he blamed for the lockdown spread

It is, but for PRC, US is a major export partner, they can't really cut them off without themselves suffering too. So, US can afford to go on offensive there. Also, US does have technological capability to build the things they import themselves.

This might not be that true for India. Related subthread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24355659

I'm struggling to understand the intent of your comment. In no way is it about "not having the right". I took it to mean the implications of a souring relationship - which certainly isn't the "right direction" to see relationships evolve.

China and India are economic giants - it'd would be preferable that they not see each other as not friends.

Is a video game, or any digital file, "an import" anymore? There's nothing physical to be imported so what the government is really "banning" here is access to information. That makes me a little uncomfortable, especially given India's reason: "they are engaged in activities which is prejudicial to sovereignty and integrity of India, defence of India, security of state and public order".

I'm not even sure what that means but I suspect that's intentional. From my reading though it doesn't sound like India is doing this as economic sanctions or for the health/safety/welfare of citizens (which would be the typical reasons for a democracy to ban an import). Instead it seems the government has decided that allowing citizens to access this information presents some sort of national security threat.

Wait a minute. What about China banning Facebook and Google? I mean Chinese government may be evil, but let's not keep double standards here.

Just because a nation has the right to do something, it doesn't make it a good idea, or even in their best interest to do so.

Has PRC also started it? It would be interesting if they go after critical components like semiconductors, pharmaceuticals, machinery etc.

One funny post I came across on Reddit.

Future of India, Jio edition

Once Jio is a monopoly, you'll have to get JioMilk from JioCow which'll be grazed on JioFarms using JioGrass in JioContainers. The cows will drink JioWater which'll come from JioMonsoon from JioRiver on JioMountain.

You'll also use JioApps on JioAndroid (* in partnership with Google) which you'll buy from JioMart which'll use JioRouter and JioFiber on Jio sim card, it'll use JioDart for delivery and the delivery guy will use JioHonda bike using Reliance for petrol on JioRoad (special roads to be used only by Jio Customers) breating JioAir (special air for Jio customers), biker will use JioGlass which'll connect to JioNet using JioVast for virus protection.

You'll also use JioVators in JioMalls to go up and down the floors watch a JioCinema in the JioMall, walk on JioTiles use JioRailings.

You'll get JioPlants from JioNursery which'll be plucked from JioForest growing on JioSoil.

You'll vote in JioElections using JioEVMs while standing in JioLines having a JioVoterCard while living in a Jiocracy.

https://np.reddit.com/r/india/comments/hsuglq/the_future_of_...

The things is, that's kind of how it starts.

First you copy badly, then you copy well, then you improve.

Baby steps.

"Therefore people think it is patriotic to use it." - i doubt they have any many users.

My point was that we need to do more than just a ban.

> Chinese apps have always been a security risk

I don't disagree. But I find this phrasing a little unclear. National security and broadly speaking security are different. Indian apps and services don't fare well in the latter category.

> but there are alternatives.

Yes, but why haven't they seen the same growth naturally? The top grossing page is filled with more Indian apps only recently due to the political atmosphere. What happened before?

Indian companies and developers have a cultural advantage and market understanding both of which are important for entertainment services to take off such as games. What's the reason behind the lag? Can you give examples of alternatives that were well established before this year?

> Mostly youth will be annoyed by lack of their favorite time-waster apps

This mentality doesn't help. This is discouraging individuals from experimenting with creative outlets in the country. That would have given us more Indian games opposed to china filling the market. E-sports is a big industry and is only growing. How do you expect anyone to innovate here when they are demonized by culture for taking interest in these games?

Surely, the problem is people aren't educated on topics such as addiction and they are considered as taboos.

Well, this is typical HN mentality to assume that users are clueless.

In Morocco, people would just go to the Souk and have a guy do it for them. Same in most countries of the sort.

Also, on android, you literally just have to download the .APK and follow the on-screen instructions.

There is no need to side-install; just go on the play store and search for some bullshit spam phrase like 'unblock pubg' and you'll get your pick of dozens if not more of ad-filled, malicious "VPN" that does MITM and ad injection into all pages.

You'll literally get thousands of results of spam apps just directly named "VPN FOR PUBG" or "VPN UN BLOCK PUBG GROUNDS BATTLE PLAYER GAME CALL OF DUTY SPONGEBOB ESPONJA BOB", all of which are malware.

I just checked for myself, and this is pretty much how it is. The publishers behind this garbage have hundreds of uploaded apps, all of which are effectively the same one but with different names like "UNBLOCK P U B G PAKISTAN" or "VPN FOR PUBG PLAYER FORT NIGHT", and a random one loaded virtually every single data-exfiltration SDK known to man, and several known to animals.

My aunt and mother use a bunch of websites I've never heard of for free streaming of movies and TV shows. They may not be the most informed about potential hidden costs of these services, but they are definitely resourceful in finding them. I think you overestimate the difficulty of using technology. All you need to do is learn to type "How do I get $web_service for free?" in the search bar.

I don’t think that 99% is correct. I know my brother who never used a computer knows how to share apps without internet and play store. They install apps using shareit like apps.

I know people who use VPN, but can't reinstall windows. Using VPN today is so simple, people do that without even knowing that they do. For them, it's: "I installed this thingy and now I can watch Hulu" and not "I install VPN to route my traffic via other country in order to by-pass national firewall"

Its safe to assume anyone who plays PubG is computer literate enough to use VPN.

I don't think so.

I knew an Iranian women who told me in Iran everyone knew how to setup and configure a VPN due to the restrictions they have in place.

It's that way western countries because we don't have such restrictions.

China has invested into its Great Firewall, which is far, far better than the techniques most ISPs here use to block websites. Besides, VPNs aren't banned, and the government isn't cracking down on generic VPNs. It's far easier to get a VPN in India to browse TikTok than it is to get a VPN in China to browse Facebook. You can even see it in the list of apps that were banned - there's two literally called "VPN for TikTok".

The thing is, there's hardly anything outside GFW that an average Chinese would want, local alternatives often are feature rich and considered "more advanced", outside news are dismissed as "obscenely fake and hostile".

In the few Chinese that do pay for VPNs, most women use it to access Instagram for celebrities, most men for porn on Twitter.

Google & FB were blocked because they didn't want to abide to the rules on China.

You don't need a VPN here in India. Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 or DNS over https is enough.

But it's notifications still get through via google play services. No idea why they would allow that.

You severely underestimate how Indian teens are addicted to PUBG. Kids have spent lakhs of their parents rupees on it. [1]

Some have even dies due to addiction. [2]

[1]- https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/aug/17/pu...

[2] - https://www.scoopwhoop.com/news/16-year-old-addicted-to-pubg...

There are many more. I just gave a single example.

They're free in term of money, but the cost is that the provider can sell your privacy to the highest bidder.

I’m glad that I’ve stopped watching TV news.

India should act in interest of India. Playing nice with the aggressor makes them more aggressive - it has been tried for past 60 years.

> This is not related to any nationalism.

> Its the response of a sovereign nation in order to secure the data of its citizens which.

That's... contradictory?

Secure the video game! It's a threat to national security!

Pure Logic.

Your comment would be significantly improved without the last part.

Curious on what is the general view of Indian population, twitter is full of trolls and paid campaign. From what I gather in chinese forum, I don't think any one believes China was the aggressive side, their most aggression is on getting Taiwan/ROC back.

It is funny to see on twitter some people accusing other side's aggression yet boasting about victory of getting further across LAC.

Nationalist countries often have "the enemy". It used to be Pakistan for India until very recently. Now it's China, only because of recent events, and there aren't very many Pakistani apps to ban either.

Heavily nationalistic countries still can have allies.

I am not from India - so it doesn't matter what I think. I was asking a question.

I notice from my own country that the power around the sitting government has been strengthened over the COVID-pandemic and the opposition is very weak.

I can only imagine how things would centralise further had my country also been under the threat of war.

An interesting tidbit about demonetization not well known is that GoI got 115% cash back, so literally 15% of the cash in the market was fake. It is not publicized officially but well known in inner circles. The problem of cash based businesses not paying taxes (especially real estate) was serious. It is true that the impact was much higher on the common man, but then at least i believe the intention was clear. Very few leaders before had the ability to take such decisions overnight. Economy is really impacted due to NPAs and i can safely argue that misspent stimulus during 2008 have much more to do with it, combined with the fact that the infrastructure development will take time to show results. You have to give credit to Modi for Jan Dhan Yojana, building toilets, accelerating expenditure on solar energy, roads and most importantly the ignored sector of Indian railways. I still feel your comment is the rare balanced comment i will see here.

Very interesting comment but I think the bit about Kashmir is naïve. Kashmir doesn’t want to reintegrate (“re”?) and India’s move here has been much like China’s in Hong Kong - a deliberate, authoritarian takeover.