Samsung TV owners complain about increasingly obtrusive ads

Samsung TV owners complain about increasingly obtrusive ads(flatpanelshd.com)

996 points by Shihan 5 years ago | 935 comments

neya 5 years ago |

Fuck the guy who wanted to suck up to the management in some stupid meeting projecting estimated revenue out of this to ask for a raise later because he "contributed to a revenue increase" to the company.

There's absolutely no after thought to this decision - If I paid 1000s of dollars for an "idiot box" that's supposed to reproduce faithfully the signal that I pass it, showing ads is unacceptable, no matter what the context or reasoning is.

This is one of the reasons I paid the premium and went for a Sony instead. They haven't done anything stupid like this yet, and I don't use smart features on the TV anyway, so I don't plan on updating the software either. Hopefully they face backlash over this stupidity and this doesn't go on to become a norm.

That would be really, really terrible.

avian 5 years ago | |

In some stupid meeting somewhere:

A: ...and in conclusion, it's a win-win situation. Users will benefit from ads and our revenue will go up.

B: People don't like ads on their TV.

A: But they do. I refer you to slides 18 through 25 where you can see engagement metrics for our ad rollout on the old model. If people wouldn't like ads they wouldn't be clicking on them so much .

B: I don't like ads. Do you like ads on your TV?

A: No.

B: Does anyone here like ads?

A: That's not the point. No-one here is in our target group or representative of our user behaviors.

C: Ok, if there are no more objections we're going with A's plan then. B, can I see you in my office after we finish here?

Nextgrid 5 years ago | | |

I suspect that a large part of this ad- and marketing-driven economy is based on this.

The reason they predict their revenue will go up (which it will, at least in the short term until the market adjusts) is because they have a lot of customers already lined up to pay them to show ads on their TVs.

Those customers' marketing departments decided to pay money to include their ads on TVs because a similar process was followed and they (rightfully) predict that they will get "engagement" on those ads (which the marketing department will rely on to justify or increase their salaries).

The problem is that this "engagement" will mostly be just annoyed customers mis-clicking or trying whatever it takes to dismiss the ad and not actually intending to purchase the advertised product, thus not contributing to the company's end goal of selling more product.

I am not convinced that the majority of the advertising & marketing initiatives out there actually translate to more profit. Marketing departments will brag about "conversions" all day long but how many of those are either accidental clicks or people who were already determined to purchase your product anyway (looking at the companies who buy Google AdWords on their own brand - if someone's searching for your brand on Google your website will already be the top result - a click on the ad is not a true "conversion" in this case and is just wasted money).

Ultimately, people have a finite amount of time and disposable money, and throwing more ads at this "problem" won't solve it. Your conversions will go up because of accidental clicks (and your marketing department will capitalize on that to justify their salaries/raises), but that doesn't magically give the consumer more money to actually go and buy your product so your profits will not increase.

kalleboo 5 years ago | | |

Well it's more like "people hate ads, but next time they buy a new TV, the ads will make our TV $10 cheaper than the other guy and they'll buy it anyway"

It's the same thing in the airline industry - people will complain all day long about legroom and being treated as cattle, but the next time they buy a ticket they vote with their wallets when they sort the flight list by price and choose the cheapest option.

tangjurine 5 years ago | | |

We're in the middle of transitioning from making decisions based on pure intuition to being purely logical and data-driven... I wonder if that's such a good idea.

There was this article a while back I read that talked about how native peoples made poisonous foods edible. Some processes were extremely convoluted and unreasonable, but it worked, and efforts by a "reasonable" man to make the process more efficient would have certainly doomed the whole tribe.

Examples like that really make me question the idea that an efficient economy is the best economy (let alone if capitalism and free markets are ideal).

EForEndeavour 5 years ago | | |

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes for understanding business and the modern world in general:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

—Upton Sinclair

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Upton_Sinclair

barkingcat 5 years ago | | |

You have the last part of the conversation wrong:

B: I don't like ads. Do you like ads on your TV?

A: Yes of course I do. If you don't like ads on your TV why are you working here.

B: Does anyone here like ads?

A+group: yes of course we all like ads (lying in a meeting is not a crime, and occurs all over the world)

C: ok no objections, we love it! Ship it!

A, C gets a paycheck at the end of the day.

B gets fired if they don't change their mind.

deeg 5 years ago | | |

I think the reason is slightly different. I worked for a web company that made most of its money on ads. Companies have an army of marketing "specialists" whose job it is to find "incremental revenue". Their performance is rated on how much revenue they can add to the company. The possibility that it may cost users in the long run is not part of their calculus. I learned to hate meetings where someone mentioned "incremental revenue".

Big companies need to have an ombudsman department who have the explicit job of reviewing all these schemes and nixing any that will likely lose customers.

hinkley 5 years ago | | |

There's a practically throw-away line in Ready Player One where the Bad Guy says, "And research has found that we can cover 49% of the screen before our customers begin to experience seizures."

Yep, sounds about right.

tobyhinloopen 5 years ago | | |

This is too real. I had discussions like this about a big fat cookie wall we needed to track users.

“Why do we need to track users?” “To give them recommendations!” “But this wall you’re using takes 4 seconds to load. Do you think this improves user experience?” “Yes, because the content is adjusted for the user. Besides, we did a test and 96% clicks accept, so the users don’t mind” “Where is the decline button?” “...” “There is no other option. You have accept, or you have to hse settings with 100 checkboxes. I’m surprised 4% even bothered to check these!” “Yeah but most just accept, so they don’t mind, and users really want the targeted content”

If I have to add it, I’ll at least make sure it won’t take freaking 4 seconds to load.

dangerboysteve 5 years ago | | |

You forgot to add:

"We need to think of our devices as small hyper local billboards with untapped potential"

cleaningcompany 5 years ago | | |

Absolutely. Can I have a few minutes before I come to your office in order to come up with a list of things I least like when I see an ad? This is a great opportunity to increase engagement from the likes of me by considering what improvement can be made in your ad campaign.

fouc 5 years ago | | |

"No-one here is in our target group or representative of our user behaviors." is absolutely how marketing turns evil. Basically taking advantage of people that don't know how to avoid ads, etc.

kf 5 years ago | | |

It took a really long time but eventually Facebook ads started giving me things I actually wanted to buy and have bought.

cm2187 5 years ago | | |

Would be interesting to see how many of the people in that room would buy a Samsung TV for themselves.

foepys 5 years ago | |

I also bought a Sony Android TV for this reason. Then last month Google pushed an update for the "Android TV Home" app and now there are many people complaining about ads on the home screen [1].

This is not really Sony's fault but rather Google's but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth…

https://9to5google.com/2020/08/18/android-tv-homescreen-ads-...

auggierose 5 years ago | | |

Just buy an Apple TV, and then whatever TV you like.

dilippkumar 5 years ago | | |

I bought a Sony Android TV in June. I refused to connect it to the internet and I skipped past the Android setup screens.

I plugged in my Apple TV instead.

Every now and then the Android TV pops up when I turn the TV on and asks me to complete the set up. I always tell it to fuck off.

So far, no ads. It'll stay that way till the TV eventually dies - without ever connecting to the internet.

jlv2 5 years ago | | |

My Sony TV from 2014 has ads in the TV Guide that gets content from the Internet.

huhtenberg 5 years ago | |

> If I paid 1000s of dollars for an "idiot box" that's supposed to reproduce faithfully the signal that I pass it

Just don't connect it to the Internet.

The bigger problem is that at some point there will not be any "idiot box" models at all. The TVs will refuse to work if they aren't seeing the Internet. Then we'll be truly fucked.

cced 5 years ago | | |

This is not the solution. Adding a PiHole to your network is not the solution. Disabling features in other places of your network is not the solution.

What if Samsung decides that it will try to connect to open networks for updates or what not? What then? Ask your neighbour to install PiHole on his network? No. This is an example of a game of cat and mouse that shouldn't exist - you pay money for a TV and that's not enough? You giving them your money is not enough and so they decide to shove ads down your throat because profits.

Simple solution would be just not to buy Samsung.

dessant 5 years ago | | |

The NVIDIA Shield TV, which runs Android TV, can no longer be initialized without signing in with a Google account, the setup screen will refuse to get past that step, even if you don't have an internet connection.

The forced login is likely illegal, because there is no mention of a requirement for a Google account in their marketing materials or on their sales pages.

The device stays perfectly functional if the the network connection is cut off within seconds after signing in, and the account can be removed after the setup is complete. The only drawback is that you can't update apps from Google Play, unless you add a Google account again.

oarsinsync 5 years ago | | |

> The bigger problem is that at some point there will not be any "idiot box" models at all. The TVs will refuse to work if they aren't seeing the Internet. Then we'll be truly fucked.

We're closer to that than you think. My Philips Ambilight television (purchased this year) throws a popup every few weeks already complaining that I've not completed setup and connected it to the internet.

As sold as I am on Ambilight (it is actually brilliant), I wont be buying another Philips television.

fxtentacle 5 years ago | | |

Then I'll start selling a little $50 box to emulate internet and route all update / advertisement requests to /dev/null :)

Or maybe we (the tech community) just agree on one model and produce an open source firmware. If you look at MagicLantern for Canon, you'll see how amazingly far people will go to control their hardware.

throw0101a 5 years ago | | |

> Just don't connect it to the Internet.

One also has to be cognizant of HDMI Ethernet in case of "unintended" connectivity:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#HDMI_Ethernet_and_Audio_R...

hawski 5 years ago | | |

I bought a used projector some time ago. Couldn't be happier. I usually watch something after it's dark and I also have very good blinds. It probably warms up in similar, or better, time that many TVs boot up nowadays. I just have a Chromecast connected to a soundbar connected to the projector. VLC handles Chromecast, although somewhat buggy, so I can watch things from my computer in another room.

Also Netflix experience with Chromecast is mostly superior to smart TVs, because it will not play anything while you just try to find something worth watching.

Connecting Chromecast to the soundbar also gives ability to listen to music from Youtube, without running display. It wastes bandwith however.

EDIT: I wrote "beamer" instead of "projector" at first

ploxiln 5 years ago | | |

I actually ran into one of these recently. I stayed at an AirBnB which had a super-cheapy small-ish TCL+Roku TV in the living room, with a super-cheapy thin antenna thing. The internet was "acting up" (95% of packets dropped, unusable) so we tried to watch some broadcast TV. You had to either sign in with a Roku account, or as "Guest", but "Guest" had to accept a couple long EULA, and it needed internet for that to work, but the internet was fubar ... I had to use my phone as a hot-spot for the TV to get it to display broadcasts! That left the TV's wifi config such that it definitely won't work for the next person, lol ...

mciancia 5 years ago | | |

> Just don't connect it to the Internet.

Haha, just wait until 4g/5g will become so cheap that TVs will have them built in for doing software updates and sending telemetry when offline :)

Anther 5 years ago | | |

I run mine on it’s own network so at least it can’t spy on my NAS and network infrastructure. If it tried this ad nonsense I’d filter it through a pihole or something similar. I will not go down without a fight with these snooping gadgets.

pelliphant 5 years ago | | |

I just bought a gigantic computer monitor and connected it to my apple-tv, problem solved.

sure, the monitor was atleast 25% more expensive than a similar screen with a smart-tv function in it, but I think it's worth it.

rrobukef 5 years ago | | |

My TV needed a firmware upgrade to get HDMI working. You need to accept EULA's before connecting and updating.

m463 5 years ago | | |

I think that will just create a market opportunity.

There was a company that made just a good tv, no smarts, but I can't find it right offhand. It think it was a european company

canucker2016 5 years ago | | |

not an option for some recent samsung TVs - if you don't connect the TV to a WiFi AP, the TV "grows up" and will try and connect to any open WiFi APs itself.

see https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/bpr6xs/if_you_choo...

JTbane 5 years ago | | |

>Just don't connect it to the Internet.

Wait until they start including a cellular modem that can't be turned off.

flucivja 5 years ago | | |

just thinking what would happen if I block connection to Ads services in my router...

hnlmorg 5 years ago | |

> This is one of the reasons I paid the premium and went for a Sony instead. They haven't done anything stupid like this yet

Oh they have. Many times over. Two instances affected me[1][2] and that was enough to swear me off all Sony products for the last 10 years. Only now am I contemplating buying from Sony again (a PS5). I don't think any multinational company is above trading their customers needs for a few extra quid.

[1] Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...

[2] Removal of "Other OS" feature from Playstation 3's after users had already bought them: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3088169/sony-agrees-to-pay-m...

jhfdbkofdcho 5 years ago | | |

I just bought a Sony and it’s running google android TV and it has suddenly got ads for “staff picks” now. “Free” movies on YouTube.

https://streamingclarity.com/android-tv-staff-pick-highlight...

hda2 5 years ago | | |

The awful aftertaste of them yanking "Other OS" after I payed for it still hasn't left my mouth. I haven't bought anything Sony since.

burtonator 5 years ago | |

NEVER buy a Samsung TV... they're horrible.

They have the same contempt for software that they do on their phones.

They NEVER update their firmware. It's amazingly slow and latent.

When they DO occasionally update they usually break things that were working or remote features you used.

About 2 years ago they implemented some weird/stupid popover commercial thing which you could eventually disable but they hid the feature.

I'd be watching Game of Thrones or something and in the middle of the show they'd bring up a popup for a new TV show or something along those lines.

disown 5 years ago | | |

> NEVER buy a Samsung TV... they're horrible.

NEVER buy a TV. Even better. They are all horrible. I thought that TVs would be a thing of the past like landline phones, but looks like I was wrong. It's incredible that the gullible are swarming to "smart" TVs.

systemBuilder 5 years ago | | |

No, I enjoy paying 50% more than necessary for the paucity of features the Samsung sparingly distributes at each price point!

wastedhours 5 years ago | |

The thing with TV panels is that they're essentially a commodity, right? Once every TV from a large brand becomes "smart", would the next logical step be for a small privacy-minded collective to go to an OEM and commission them to start making dumb TVs?

Usually I disagree about niche hardware in this way (for example, usual mentions about a similar approach for phones and laptops), but the dumb screen might just be dumb and cheap enough to make work at this limited scale?

Cthulhu_ 5 years ago | | |

In theory, that's how the free market should work; in practice, it's very hard for a new player on the market to get brand recognition and a share of the market.

It can be done, I think, but it has to be VERY well funded - you need to send salespeople / lobbyists to the various on- and offline shops selling TVs, you need "SEO experts" to try and beat the competition's "SEO experts" on the internet and e.g. Amazon's search results, and you need a legal team to help with the inevitable heap of lawsuits you'll get (patents, design infringement, etc). And then you'll have to deal with the competition pushing the prices of their devices below yours; Samsung can afford to sell TVs below market value for decades if need be, JUST to push out that shitty newcomer that does ad-free TVs, and they'll make money off of the ads + subscription services they offer in the meantime.

felipelemos 5 years ago | |

I think the best way to fix this before it creates legs is to have a huge backslash.

They should feel social pressure to backpedal this stupid decision by hurting their marketing for fear to be known as the brand that has ADS in their television sets.

Hokusai 5 years ago | | |

> They should feel social pressure

That rarely works. For each consumer that has the time and understanding to not buy the brand there is a thousand that are not aware. The way to go is lobbying for stronger regulations and to limit where Ads and recollection of data can be done.

Day after day we have more and more connected devices. Samsung is the tip of the iceberg, even if there was consumer backslash for one company the problem will still be there.

thakoppno 5 years ago | | |

Samsung TVs in the US have had ACR since 2012.

skocznymroczny 5 years ago | |

I don't trust most smart TVs, that's why I bought a dumb TV from TCL. If I want any fancy smart functions, I'll just connect an android box via HDMI.

deergomoo 5 years ago | | |

I would love to do this, but dumb TVs pretty much top out at the upper-mid range. If you want a high end panel you're getting all the bullshit too, unfortunately.

m463 5 years ago | | |

I worry that these manufacturers will collude with xfinity to do an "iot workaround" to exfiltrate "customer preferences"

joosters 5 years ago | | |

But why do you think your android device will have fewer ads and spyware? Unless you rolled your own OS, it probably is infested with crud.

013a 5 years ago | |

I have an old (like 2015, not that old) Vizio TV with a built-in Chromecast, which was always handy. Saves me a couple bucks and an HDMI port.

The "home screen" of the TV (where it goes when you turn it on) was always the chromecast, which as I'm sure most people have seen, is rather nice; just endless pictures of art and landscapes, like a screensaver.

One day it updated without my consent, and that screen was replaced with Vizio's, I dont know, some piece of shit interface no human being on the planet wants. Ads for Crackle and other Vizio tvs mostly. Its so bad.

So, I'm never buying another Vizio TV.

cmckn 5 years ago | |

Totally agree, my Bravia was worth every (numerous) penny. I do update to get features like Airplay, but have never seen an ad. The $400 Samsung in my bedroom, however, starts streaming an ad-laden TV Guide equivalent automatically when I turn it on. Beyond awful.

boudin 5 years ago | | |

I have a Sony Android TV from the 2015 generation. It always had a row to advertise random app I don't use (Netflix, Playstation Video, Disney something etc...) It also always advertise content from those platform, you have to disable "recommendations" from apps one after one as you can only disable recommendations for an app that pushed its crap at least once.

The last update also broke hardware video decoding for a whole range of h264 videos as well as pushing some kind of weird 3rd party that seems to be something that basically monitor everything you do with your TV. It was advertised as a feature to access the TV guide.

My next TV will not be a so-called "smart" TV and not certainly not a Sony.

tannhaeuser 5 years ago | | |

Worth noting that Sony also produces Android TVs AFAIK which I guess have the same prob. My older Bravia doesn't, but then isn't all that smart ;) and the lcd technology is outdated.

fxtentacle 5 years ago |

... and that's exactly why my TV will never have an internet connection.

By now, it doesn't really matter which brand you use. I have analyzed Samsung, Sony, LG and Philips and ALL of them send data about your usage to NetEase in China and ALL of them have ToS that say that they might record your voice and store it for improving their AI or whatever. Plus all of them shove suggested apps in your face, so I'd say it is only a matter of time until all of them show more aggressive ads.

But if you fully wipe it and then keep it fully offline, most TVs have a great screen and they can be configured with "gaming mode" to work like a low-latency HDMI / DisplayPort display. And without internet, there are not ads :) and no forced (useless) updates.

BTW, my LG OLED is completely ad-free, defaults to using HDMI port 1 and even has GSYNC. Just connect any barebone with an NVIDIA card and you have 100% control over what you see.

bleepblorp 5 years ago |

Just as the 's' in 'IoT' stands for 'security', the 'f' in 'IoT' stands for 'fairness to users.'

Never buy a consumer product that expects an Internet connection.

izacus 5 years ago |

One tip I've found useful - most TVs have a so-called "Hotel mode" (or a Service mode) where they can have most of their smart features disabled and can be locked to a single HDMI input (e.g. AppleTV / ShieldTV / Chromecast). That makes them into rather dumb panels that usually also disable those ads.

At least I know it's possible on all Sony AndroidTV models and most Samsung models (not sure about their latest Tizen).

parliament32 5 years ago | |

LG TVs also have a "display mode" that's used for live restaurant menus and the like (think: the TVs above the registers at McDs). We had to flash a special firmware file via USB to enable it though.

joking 5 years ago | |

samsung (and most brands) sell specific model for hospitality, those have hotel mode, so i doubt you can configure it on domestic ones.

ice3 5 years ago | | |

Hotel mode can be activated on most (all?) Samsung TVs. You just have to access the hidden services menu.

yholio 5 years ago |

The life time of TVs is simply on a different time scale than most smart thingies you connect to them. It's an appliance like the air conditioner or dishwasher, not a gadget you throw into the bin and replace. The intelligence of your media center should be elsewhere, in a dedicated gadget that you can easily replace and upgrade, connected via a standard, dumb interface like HDMI.

I own a 2012, 60" Sony Bravia and the picture quality is stil superb compared to recent models (except OLED). Its HD and not 4K, but it makes no difference, my eyesight is not getting any better and I might use it for the next 5 to 10 years probably. It's internet capabilities are laughable, pre-smart TV. Picked it up for 100 quid second hand, no doubt some idiot replaced it with a "smart" piece of junk with thinner frame, less durable LEDs, and now, good God, mandatory advertising.

tzs 5 years ago | |

I really wish the whole home theater was way more modular.

I'd like separate boxes for video display, video signal switching, audio signal switching, stereo and surround sound decoding, speaker driving, OTA TV tuning, AM radio, FM radio.

I want these boxes to all support a common control protocol, with another box or boxes handling controlling the system.

My current system with a receiver that is 8 years old and a TV that is around 3 or 4 years old is fine, except for three things: (1) the receiver cannot handle 4K video, (2) the receiver does not work with any voice assistants, and (3) the TV does not work with any voice assistants.

With a modular system, I'd just replace the video switching with a 4K switching box, and replace the control box with one that supports a voice assistant (or add another control box...no reason a module system has to have only one such box).

With the current approach, I'd have to replace the receiver and the TV for that.

city41 5 years ago | |

I have a 1080p Vizio from about 2013 or so. It's "smart", but doesn't phone home or anything. I use a Roku to get more modern apps for it (I block Roku's phoning home in my pihole).

I've considered upgrading to 4K many times. But I take comfort in knowing the TV I have now is not screwing me over. The thought of having to thoroughly research the TVs of today is enough for me to stick with it. Heck, my eyes probably can't see the 4K improvements from across the room anyway.

Grakel 5 years ago | | |

There's almost no 4k content anyway. And none on Netflix / Disney / Prime.

matsemann 5 years ago |

In EU I think a "consumer complaint/guarantee" would work (the law, not a warranty given by the producer). As in: the product is no longer working as advertised/expected, so I want my money back.

For instance, when an older PlayStation (3?) in an update made it so that one could no longer run Linux (which was advertised as possible), I know of people that got to return it and get their money back after the Norwegian Consumer Council ruled against Sony.

fxtentacle 5 years ago | |

I concur. This is also likely the reason why Oculus stopped selling the Quest in some EU countries. Their planned EULA update will make it impossible to use the device without a Facebook account, which might make them legally liable to provide a refund in case anyone complains about it.

kalleboo 5 years ago | | |

Also most likely violates the GDPR

kingbirdy 5 years ago | |

It would be nice if there was a right to get back the product you paid for (i.e. revert the adware update), rather than being forced to either accept the ads or return the product.

signal11 5 years ago |

A reminder that increasingly intrusive ads are one part of the problem. The other, and potentially bigger, part is automatic content recognition (ACR), which has been covered on HN before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21899491 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21657930

Sjonny 5 years ago | |

Exactly this. I was surprised by the ads that they apparently shove down your throat but outraged by the fact that samsung knows what you watch. Most people that have a new TV will probably not even know this, only mentioned in some small letters in an eula that nobody reads. How is that even legal?

olorton 5 years ago |

I've had my Samsung TV for 3-4 years, it works just as well as well today as the first day that I bought it. I've never connected it to the internet and get streaming capabilities using 3rd party devices. Dumb TVs are much better than shit ones.

Kelteseth 5 years ago | |

This. Just buy an NVidia shield and use your TV as a monitor. The UI and the fact that it uses AndroidTV and not some shitty Samsung OS is reason alone to buy it. Also my Samsung TV gets a start signal from my NVidida Shield so I do not even have to bother with using 2 remotes :)

Kipters 5 years ago | | |

That's exactly what I've been doing with my 2019 Samsung TV and and a Shield Pro. The TV is unplugged from the internet and all my streaming is done from the Shield, which is even better because:

1. The Netflix/Prime Video etc apps are snappier because of the beefier SoC

2. Content looks better, because DLSS does a better job at upscaling than the TV's native upscaler

3. I can use it to stream games from my PC, which is making me reconsider buying one of the new consoles just for couch gaming since I could spend the money on a new GPU to upgrade my rig an just stream from there.

And as you mentioned, the presence of HDMI CEC makes remotes rather interchangeable

I also didn't connect the antenna cable and didn't even notice during the entirety of the (Italian) lockdown since I never watch "normal" TV. At this point I wish it could be possible to get TVs without a tuner, I could stop paying the TV taxes!

cheeze 5 years ago | |

I had my ks8000 for 2 years before it hit the dreaded green lines which seem to be common on Reddit. 1500 dollar top of the line TV that hardly lasted.

Luckily, Samsung was awesome about it and I was able to RMA through Best Buy, who just gave me my money back. I took that cash, put a bit on top, and bought an LG OLED. Best decision ever. OLED is absolutely dominant in TVs these days.

tjungblut 5 years ago |

It's even worse when the ad server is down: it will completely lock-up your TV and you can't even watch it anymore. In the best case it makes it excruciatingly slow. That's why I turned off networking on my SmartTV already a year or two ago. No ads, works as a TV should.

silon42 5 years ago | |

+1 have Samsung TV(s), never connected to internet, never will.

silon42 5 years ago | | |

I just fear they will start doing Internet via TV box via HDMI... it will be time to cancel that too, or use it via VGA converter.

ComodoHacker 5 years ago | |

I hope someone will figure out how to serve them fake 1-second black screen ads from your Pi-hole.

sha5Eife 5 years ago |

Slightly off topic : the message displayed when visiting that page with javascript turned off is hilarious :

> Your browser is not Javascript enable or you have turn it off. We recommend you to activate for better security reason@SYSLOG: INTERNAL ERROR[2]

Oh well, if it's for better security reason, then… /s

MisterTea 5 years ago |

Sometimes I wish there was a suckless for everything.

Gimme a boring TV with open firmware so I can flash it with Linux or better yet, no need for firmware, just a few video ports and a power switch. I'll feed it with my video signal of choice.

Then a phone with stock android or ability to flash Linux or whatever with hardware kill switches because you cant trust anything electronic these days.

Then I'll take a car with a steering wheel, two pedals and a double din opening on the dash and some HVAC topped off with a downloadable service manual right from the manufactures website please.

I'm tired of feeling this technology anxiety where I'm supposed to just give up my rights and dignity and capitulate to the corporate gods. Go away already.

dastx 5 years ago | |

This is what I'm hoping for. All I want is a TV running Kodi. Combined with Plex and a freeview/freesat TV card and I'd be all set.

walrus01 5 years ago |

You should absolutely never give your 'smart' television the wifi password or plug it into a cable that will give it a DHCP lease. Use the things as dumb displays driven by an xbox or PS4 or a home theater PC.

Yes, the xbox and PS4 home screens have 'ads' (promoted games and stuff mostly), but they're not 1/10th as annoying in my opinion. And Microsoft and Sony have a much higher likelihood of keeping the operating systems properly patched and up to date on a 5, 10 year time scale.

kmlx 5 years ago | |

> You should absolutely never give your 'smart' television the wifi password or plug it into a cable that will give it a DHCP lease. Use the things as dumb displays driven by an xbox or PS4 or a home theater PC.

1. why?

2. the ps4/xbox pale in comparison to my lg's apps. functionalities, quality of streams, the voice search. they're all much better on the lg apps.

Tyr42 5 years ago | | |

Get an NVidea shield. Better than the tv's apps.

felipelemos 5 years ago | |

Or just use a chromecast

chadlavi 5 years ago | | |

Yeah let google serve you ads and sell your info, not Samsung or LG or Sony

ptersilie 5 years ago |

When I bought my LG TV a few years back it did the same. The ads were mostly for apps you can download on the LG app store (so no yoghurts or anything). But they were still annoying enough for me to look into the DNS queries the TV does and block some of them. In case it's useful for some of you, here's what I found out and ended up blocking:

  - vcfd1.giraffic.net, vcfd2.giraffic.net: adaptive Video acceleration (seems to be used for internet TV)
  - GB.lgtvsdp.com, ngfts.lge.com: don't know what this does.
  - GB.ibs.lgappstv.com: needed to download apps and updates
  - snu.lge.com: used to check for software updates?
  - lgtvonline.lge.com: likely for the TV recommendations feature that remembers what you watch and gives you recommendations based on it
  - GB.info.lgsmartad.com: ads
  - yahoo.com: no idea why the TV needs to talk to yahoo. Blocked.
  - facebook.com: why!? Blocked.

noisy_boy 5 years ago | |

> facebook.com: why!? Blocked.

I'm shocked that you don't want facebook to know your viewing habits to show you more relevant ads. Its a feature to improve the ad experience for the users.

retSava 5 years ago |

Do they wait with showing ads, say a month or so, until after the common return policy for most stores have expired? That would be a really evil thing to do, just struck my mind.

Also, sounds like a case of optimization creep - "I know a way to get even more revenue, we just sign up with this $more_shady_ad_network!". Displaying more and more creepy ads, no-one decreasing ads since they don't want to be the one decreasing ad revenue.

adamparsons 5 years ago | |

They retrospectively updated panels going back to 2016 to "improve" the experience. Truly evil shit.

DaiPlusPlus 5 years ago | | |

Do they have the right to do that? Do customers in any country have a right to demand a product's firmware be restored to factory-state (on the grounds that what they received isn't what they were sold)?

solarkraft 5 years ago | | |

That's especially funny because Samsung TVs don't get feature updates.

mnw21cam 5 years ago | |

> Do they wait with showing ads, say a month or so, until after the common return policy for most stores have expired?

What? A month? Sale of goods act.

retSava 5 years ago | | |

Sorry, don't where you're at. Over here, it's commonly a month return policy of most stores (no law setting this, it's a voluntary thing).

Then there's quite generous warranty for 2 years, up to 3 years, but that's when things break.

In addition, I think this also includes if a sold item is unfit for advertised use, or perhaps even if substantially changed during ownership (eg Samsung mandatorily introducing ads), but I've never had to use that so don't know).

Phillips126 5 years ago |

I purchased a Samsung TV about two years ago for $1,200. It was my first 4K TV and I loved it. I made the purchase around the same time I dropped my cable subscription, I just couldn't stand the advertisements anymore.

The panel was thin (with almost no bezels), the picture quality was superb and I was sold on the "Smart TV" features like having built in access to Netflix, etc. For a while it was great, then I noticed the ads showing up on the bottom left of the bottom menu. Now my TV is as slow as molasses and I hate it. Picture quality is still good, but Samsung ruined it with their software. I refuse to purchase another Samsung TV which really frustrates me because I love their panels.

I'm currently looking to disable the internet on it and use a Fire Stick, Roku, or other. Anyone have any suggestions?

rmtech 5 years ago |

The core problem is that the companies that make these things are not being controlled by good regulation.

200 years ago it was probably legal for a food company to put a bit of cocaine in the food to make it more addictive. Nowadays I think you would go to jail for that.

Similarly, if we ever make it to the year 2220, the act of making a product that forces users to view certain content or that spies on users will be something you go to jail for, not something that gets you a promotion.

All the technical fixes that people are proposing (disconnect internet, pi hole, etc) are bandaid solutions and eventually the companies will bother to break those fixes. The company is a million times more powerful than any given individual and individuals are uncoordinated, so absent regulation the individuals will maximally lose the game - Black-Mirror-esque

petargyurov 5 years ago |

TVs have gone completely the opposite direction of what I dreamed of.

On top of all these ads and snooping, there are so few TVs with a smooth, responsive UI. Seriously, even in top brands the UI chugs along at a snail's pace. And most of the time the UI design itself is terrible.

Who cares about 8K if the UI takes 8 seconds to load.

BLKNSLVR 5 years ago | |

My "smart" TV takes a good seven or eight seconds to recognise that I'm madly trying to turn the volume down after turning the TV on because the last thing the kids watched was so quiet they had to turn the volume way up.

Volume controls used to be instantaneous. Why the degradation of user experience alongside incredible progress in technology?

donatj 5 years ago |

I don't understand destroying your brand like this. Samsung from the early 2000s to ~2015 meant quality. Is it worth the short term gains from ad revenue over long term customer loyalty?

I myself was a pretty loyal customer up until very recently when it came time to buy a TV and I specifically wanted one without ads ruining the experience.

I'm reasonably certain this will make this many peoples last Samsung TV.

jiggawatts 5 years ago | |

It's absolutely certain. I'm in the market for new, high-end OLED or equivalent TV. There is no way in hell I'm ever buying a Samsung, under any circumstances, ever.

Their corporate executives clearly have no ethics whatsoever.

But that's not the only problem. My coworkers have been to Samsung's headquarters and worked on their core IT infrastructure. They both rattled off an endless horror show of security lapses and outright violations of common sense that would make your eyes pop out of your head.

There is zero chance that your data is "safe" with Samsung. None. They will get hacked. They're almost certainly hacked already, and don't know it. Or they know it and simply don't care.

NationalPark 5 years ago | | |

You're safe, Samsung doesn't even make OLED televisions! However all OLED TVs on the market do come with smart features and adware, so maybe not so safe after all.

thekyle 5 years ago | |

I bought a Samsung Galaxy phone and one thing I've noticed is that almost all the stock apps (Samsung Health, Samsung Music, Galaxy Store, etc.) have ads. Their apps are actually kinda nice, but the ads are a huge turn off.

dc3k 5 years ago | | |

I have a Samsung Galaxy phone and there are ads on my home screen. Luckily it's only a work phone that I haven't had to look at in several years.

I would never personally buy any product from Samsung at this point.

tryptophan 5 years ago | | |

Yeah, this is super annoying, especially considering I bought an expensive flagship model.

My s8 will be my last Samsung phone unless they stop shoving ads into everything.

obscura 5 years ago |

Yet another example of the customer coming last. Are TV's that force ads on customers heavily discounted? If not, the manufacturers are earning extra revenue while the customer loses their privacy and gets nothing in return other than annoyance.

It's a good illustration of why privacy is so complicated: most people wouldn't think that in buying a TV they're compromising their privacy because they don't know about ACR and such. The manufacturers, of course, know all about it, but it's not in their interest to share the information - specifically, to do so in a way that empowers the consumer to make an educated decision at purchase time. (Or am I wrong and they do in fact explain everything "on the box"? I haven't had to buy a TV in a long time.)

subsubzero 5 years ago |

And this is why I will never get a samsung TV again. When in the market for a new TV, I wanted a OLED and the salesperson kept pointing me towards samsung and its offerings saying they are superior to everyone else. As I had come from a Samsung and started to get ads popping up that I could not disable I realized this was a brand I needed to avoid like the plague. I ended up with a LG and have been enjoying the TV with no pop ups.

As a side note, they do not make a "dumb" TV anymore. I feel like this is a huge market opportunity for a manufacturer to make one as I and many others would be very interested in one. I don't want google play or any tracking crapware on my TV and can gate these things with either apple TV or Roku/media server.

deadgrey19 5 years ago |

Exactly this happened to me. We bought the TV and for years things were great. Really loved the functionality of the smart TV. Being able to stream YouTube at a moments notice was great.

But then the adverts started. We paid $3000 for this TV. Not a low end “ad-supported tv” The only way to “opt out” is to disable the “smart” TV function which I have done. Any smarts now comes from my Apple TV which does not thrust averts in my face. Needless to say, my last Samsung purchase ever.

program 5 years ago |

You can disable ads but the checkbox is deeply buried in the support menu page. Also the preference is reset every time Samsung update the T&C (more or less once a month). I added 6 Samsung domains to my Pi-Hole blacklist [1], domains that are queried dozens of times a day.

[1] https://gist.github.com/zaerl/e3c24a9c21e5c15138e92a43ccd534...

leokennis 5 years ago | |

For lazier or less technically inclined people: https://NextDNS.io.

One click and no more ads:

https://kennis.cc/public_uploads/d22bcaaf.jpeg

deanclatworthy 5 years ago | | |

Where exactly can you choose this through the desktop ui?

tannhaeuser 5 years ago |

It's not just ads. "Smart" TVs can also capture what you see and send that information home.

fxtentacle 5 years ago | |

Yes, and based on my research, Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic all connect to NetEase servers in China, if you grant them internet access.

cambalache 5 years ago | | |

It does not matter if it's China, Hawaii or Timbuktu, it's wrong in any case. I can understand somehow western people sinophobia as they will be displaced as "owners of the world" in the next 50-100 years but if I were a "western" citizen now and were given a forced choice between China or my government having my digital data I would choose China every single time. Same reason for a Chinese citizen to choose Germany and not China for example.

milofeynman 5 years ago | |

The OP blog post taka about that. It's called ACR

swypych 5 years ago |

The problem I see with these companies, where HW is the focus and not SW, is that their tech stack is a joke. I have no faith in their security models, or their ability to protect my privacy. These features always feel like they have been just added on with little thought of the surrounding environment. Anyone who has developed a Tizen, LG webOS, Visio app, will understand what I am mean. The platforms have significant variations between model years, and developers are flat out told that features will not be fixed on 2-3 year old TVs. This seems insane considering the level of trust they ask from their customer.

Buyer BEWARE!

aloer 5 years ago |

I have recently bought my first ever TV. A samsung The Serif 2019. Last years model because cheap. Amazing picture. Nice design. Absolutely shitty software

- This thing has an anti virus scanner installed

- There is a task manager that shows you the current cpu and memory consumption

- Disabling automatic brightness adaption requires you to enter the debug menu which you can only enter via a normal remote and not the included smart remote (which costs 50 to replace and does not have any number keys!). So I had to buy one off amazon. If you don’t do that you _will_ notice annoying brightness changes.

- Oh and also disable everything with auto or smart in the picture settings

I bought an AppleTV even before the Samsung arrived. Worth it.

And friends don’t let friends connect their TVs to WiFi

Pro tip: if your work uses TVs in meeting rooms and the font looks weird, adjust the sharpness.

After I found that out everything in previous meeting rooms made sense. When you unbox a normal TV for computer use you gotta turn down the sharpness and nobody does

3guk 5 years ago |

For those who use piHole or other network wide ad blocking, I've compiled a list of servers to block: https://factory-reset.com/wiki/Samsung_Telemetry_Servers

jmull3n 5 years ago |

Curious to see what HN users believe is the best smart TV to buy in terms of OS functionality, privacy and user experience?

FooHentai 5 years ago | |

Whatever has the best panel for the best price, then strap an apple TV (or your choice of NUC) onto it and completely ignore whatever on-board smarts exist.

m_eiman 5 years ago | | |

This is the only reasonable solution. I've got an OLED LG "TV", connected to an Apple TV and a receiver for proper audio (using HDMI ARC).

To turn everything on, I press a button on the Apple TV remote and everything is up and running within five seconds or so (from standby/sleep mode). Powering off the Apple TV also turns off the display and the receiver via HDMI CEC.

Edit: http://www.eiman.tv/misc/power-on.mov

covercash 5 years ago | | |

The biggest drawback to this is the lack of support for 4K in the YouTube app on Apple TV.

mFixman 5 years ago | | |

Any reason why an Apple TV and not a Roku or a Chromecast?

bleepblorp 5 years ago | |

A large form factor monitor hooked up to a PC.

Commercial TVs aimed at the digital signage market are an alternative option to a large monitor, especially at larger sizes. They're less likely to spew advertising than consumer Smart TVs, but are probably less likely to stay clean than a monitor with no Internet connectivity.

I use a Linux PC as a media decode device. It works, but I have no interest in 4K (hardware video decode is sketchy on Linux, which makes 4K difficult) or paid streaming services (if I wanted to watch sewage I'd take up urban exploration into wastewater facilities).

JohnBooty 5 years ago | | |

    Commercial TVs aimed at the digital signage market 
    are an alternative option to a large monitor, 
    especially at larger sizes

Do you have experience running one of these? I'm very curious about the pros and cons.

I've seen it mentioned that they tend to lack features like HDR and may not have remote controls. Any other downsides?

I would be fine with the lack of a remote, and probably even HDR. I would also be willing to pay a bit of a premium over consumer TVs.

However, information on these displays is pretty tough to come by. I browse home theater type forums/subreddits from time to time and don't see people really talking about using them in the home.

asutekku 5 years ago | |

Any tv, but you do not connect it to an internet and get an apple tv to do it instead.

sorwin 5 years ago | |

Any TV, as long as you don't connect it to wifi/ethernet. I've been using Roku throughout my house with a home DNS server set to block all roku analytics/log servers. No interface/app issues thus far (about a year now on 4 TVs)

edit: Also, aside from netflix, a local plex server with rtorrent/irssi to auto-download tv series I followl

RandomBacon 5 years ago | |

Sceptre TVs.

They are not "smart", but less is better, so in terms of OS functionaliry, privacy, and user experience; they top the charts.

fxtentacle 5 years ago | |

I have a GSYNC LG OLED who has never had internet and it's connected to a barebone PC.

dawnerd 5 years ago |

This is also why I refuse to use any Samsung product if I can avoid it. I was an early adopter of 4K and their tvs at the time were very expensive. Those tvs ended up getting ads patched in - and even if you "opted out" of the yahoo agreement they still found ways to advertise by using the system notifications to push gamespot. Of course Samsung denied it which was the final straw for me. Plus all of their fridges have a known issue they refuse to fix (there's a class action lawsuit over it).

It's kinda sad that people are just now noticing how bad the ads are. They were bad back 6+ years ago - especially when they tried to sneak ads into videos played back from plex.

hevelvarik 5 years ago |

I’ll hazard that this class of decision is entirely because enterprise success is determined by movement of the share price which requires continuous growth. It’s not enough to have a wildly successful product and a wildly successful company but constant growth is required to be seen as a success.

That’s the only way I see a golden goose killing ux change making into one of the industry leading products in a cut throat ever changing sector.

I’ll now browse the comments to see if any other plausible explanations have been presented.

beloch 5 years ago |

I bought one of these TV's without realizing it would serve ads. It was a high end model that cost enough that I had no reasonable expectation that Samsung would try to make an additional 10 bucks off of me by showing me ads, but here we are.

The good news is you can block the ads. Here are some domains I've blocked in my router. They might not all be necessary to block, but they don't seem to break anything else (except perhaps Disney+) and they do stop the ads from appearing.

(Note: The only ad I was seeing was an additional ad box that was inserted as one of the sources on the source selector. It was only an issue if you were going from display to the TV's settings because it had inserted itself in between the two, and you could accidentally click on it. Blocking the following domains got rid of This.)

samsungads.com

ads.samsung.com

www.samsungotn.net

www.samsungrm.net

gpm.samsungqbe.com

samsungacr.com

samsungcloudsolution.com

samsungcloudsolution.net

samsungotn.net

The bad news is that the Disney+ app may not function properly if you block these domains. The obvious workaround is to use Disney+ from a browser, but that produces surprising results with this TV. Certain video sources, such as Disney+ or the trailers on IMDB, cause my Samsung TV to flash the following message:

"We are adjusting the picture quality for you to experience a better uhd screen. You can change the settings in Settings > General > External Device Manager > HDMI UHD color"

The screen then goes black and the only way to restore function is to unplug the HDMI cable and plug it back in. Very annoying.

The message describes settings that exist in the TV's configuration exactly as described, so it's definitely an error message produced by the TV set. Unfortunately, the settings referenced do nothing to eliminate this bug.

I've contacted Samsung's tech support a couple of times and they're utterly clueless about this issue. (Note: Not many people may report this error message because if flashes so fast that you need to photograph the screen in order to read it, and you have to have fast reflexes to do even that!)

All in all, despite the quality of the screen, these unresolved issues mean I will probably not buy another Samsung TV and recommend that others avoid this brand as well.

jwineinger 5 years ago |

I recently purchased a Samsung Smart TV. I pretty much just plugged in our 4k Fire Stick TV and we use that, bypassing all of the built in stuff which was a bit confusing to navigate and had significant lag between button press and UI reaction.

chadlavi 5 years ago |

Who could have predicted that putting an android OS and an internet connection in a device that should only function as a display would have negative consequences?

At this point, is it even possible to buy a high quality tv that isn't a smart tv? And will these smart TVs work properly if you keep them disconnected from the internet?

(Side note: this is why TVs are so much cheaper now, isn't it?)

CivBase 5 years ago |

There are huge communities of awesome hackers who support build and support operating systems and firmware for phones and routers. Does anything like that exist for so-called "smart" TVs?

LargoLasskhyfv 5 years ago | |

There have been around 2010, Samygo and OpenLGtv have been mentioned elsewhere. But they are all bitrotten now, and not applicable to current models anyways.

donor20 5 years ago |

I know folks will totally TRASH apple if they did a walled garden TV - but for some of us we'd probably pay the extra just not to have to deal with / worry about the random scammers doing things like this. And I call this a scam when you spend this amount of money and the box doesn't have in bold letters (popover ads!).

refracture 5 years ago |

Bought a new Samsung TV. Connect ethernet cable. Update firmware. Disconnect ethernet cable. Connect Apple TV.

The end.

Smart TVs can go to hell. Arguably updating the firmware wasn't even worth doing but whatever.

torgian 5 years ago |

What happened to just buying a "normal" TV? No internet needed or anything?

Seems dumb. Seeing this link has already made me to decide I actually won't buy a Samsung tv. I'll just get something else.

If we truly go the road of the dodo, I'll just make a side business rewiring "smart" tvs.

vin047 5 years ago | |

Two issues, one is cost – TV's are expensive as is, so consumers don't want to spend extra to purchase a standalone set-top box right after spending a large amount.

Second issue is that the average consumer wants smart TV's – they like that everything is integrated in the TV. Less remotes, less cabling etc.

As someone who doesn't really use the "smarts" on my smart TV, I'd quite like a well engineered (hardware + software), privacy preserving, smart TV. I see the appeal of an all-integrated solution. But none exists; most of the time the software is either garbage, or runs as if it was meant to run on hardware a few generations in the future. And as for privacy... sadly, few on both sides of the market prioritise it :(

RandomBacon 5 years ago | |

Sceptre TVs are "normal" (aka "dumb") and even do 4K.

Unfortunately they probably don't get the extra revenue from ads to be able to get placement in stores like Best Buy.

aronpye 5 years ago |

I built my own router with a raspberry pi. I installed pi-hole and use that as a dns resolver. I then use an iptables rule to NAT / forward all dns traffic on port 53 to the pi-hole resolver, similar to how ISPs often intercept dns requests. This prevents IOT devices from bypassing the dns server configured via my DHCP. Letting pi-hole block the requests helps prevent errors from dns request timeouts.

An additional benefit is that you get to log internet traffic and get shocked as you find out what your devices are really up to.

To block ads that are served over whitelisted / not blocked domains I’d need some kind of deep packet inspection. I’m not sure this kind of filtering even exists / would work as a lot of the ad traffic I see is served over https.

chrisjc 5 years ago | |

Is there anything to stop devices from establishing a VPN connection?

I imagine that would be the next logical step that device manufactures will go to to combat consumers setting up pi-holes.

aronpye 5 years ago | | |

No, something that uses an encrypted tunnelling protocol like IPsec would hide its communications. You wouldn’t be able to spoof the server either due to IPsec’s authentication capabilities.

You could stop the device from initiating a tunnel by blocking the appropriate ports and protocols.

Although if I found out a device was going to these lengths and wasn’t open source, I don’t think I’d want it on my network.

squarefoot 5 years ago |

Simple slution: don't buy "Smart" TVs, And the day all TVs will be "Smart" just don't connect them to the Internet (and don't leave open hotspots nearby or they'll do by themselves). They're becoming business platforms rather than devices the user can control, just like "Smart" phones and computers with non free operating systems.

Anyone remembers that TV screen in the wonderful Idiocracy docu... er.. movie? That is going to happen, soon or later.

https://i2.wp.com/scifiinterfaces.com/wp-content/uploads/201...

LargoLasskhyfv 5 years ago | |

Prrrrhhhhrrrrpft (splatter...)

Excellent capture! Personally I'd wish for a "fan-edit" of that, melded with Wall-E :)

pabs3 5 years ago |

There used to be open source firmware for Samsung TVs called SamyGo, it would be great if it were ported to newer ones so the ads could be replaced with Kodi or similar.

https://www.samygo.tv/

mercora 5 years ago | |

this is merely a modification of the original software on the TV which is achieved by gaining root access on it which is currently not easily possible on more recent models.

pabs3 5 years ago | | |

I don't see any recent TV-specific CVEs for Samsung but it would be surprising if none exist.

https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Samsung

mensetmanusman 5 years ago |

As much as Apple can be annoying for developers, at least they have been pro consumer in certain areas:

-AppleTV will not do this, and likely never will -iPhones do not have ads all over them put in place by the carriers (I still can’t believe this happened)

mark_l_watson 5 years ago |

Our Samsung TV in our living room has been unplugged for about three months. I wanted to give it to charity and have new “plant friendly” shelves installed instead of the TV nook, still need to talk my wife into that.

Before the great unplugging, I set the Internet connection on the TV to be to my iPhone. I almost never have my iPhone hotspot turned on, so I could do TV updates when needed, otherwise starve it for an Internet connection.

BTW, no TV works for us because we stream to my wife’s large iPad Pro and she bought a fancy stand that can position the iPad anywhere in space. We site next to each other and place the iPad just under three feet away. We like this setup.

prima-facie 5 years ago |

One way to handle this is to get a privacy-oriented DNS service like NextDNS[1] which can block ads and trackers. Then put that in your TV's networks settings. My Samsung smart TV tries to send out a lot of these requests back to the mothership: https://i.imgur.com/wCMrI3B.png but the service blocks them.

[1]NextDNS https://nextdns.io/?from=rj4b2nfn

mbrumlow 5 years ago |

Side note. I own a fairly recent Samsung TV. I pay for Google Priemium so I can let my kid watch some shows from time to time. Pepa pig and what not.

The issue is the built in youtube app constantly had to be logged out and back in. Otherwise advertisements start to show. Sometimes as often as wcey 4 minutes. And they are the worst sorts of advertisements geared to kids to ask parents to buy pointless plastic shit.

I am failey sure this bug is not being fixed because it would lower somebodiws revenue, or metric.

nabla9 5 years ago |

Common reaction for this is that Samsung made a stupid decision and they are losing money because of this. Supporting evidence is anecdotal, personal experience.

I seriously doubt this is true. It's probably rational behaviour for Samsung to push this trend as far as it goes and then retreat a little if negative reaction shows in the bottom line. Or maybe limit the offending products to lower price category.

jlj 5 years ago |

I am looking for a small non-smart TV for a workout area in my home. My last TV purchase was around 2010.

The options seem very limited. I may end up using a computer monitor with a streaming box and or a tv tumer card on an old computer. I already have a good OTA signal from an outdoor antenna that is used by the main TV in the house and can easily run a splitter.

Any low cost recommendations?

jhloa2 5 years ago | |

Craigslist usually has a bunch of dumb TVs for dirt cheap or free

paulie_a 5 years ago |

Samsung makes great hardware but shit software. From TV to tablets to laptops

If it involves code it is going to be terrible for the customer.

unfocused 5 years ago |

At my work, I'm responsible for the procurement of IT equipment, and for our boardrooms, we only buy "digital signage" televisions. Essentially, dumb TVs because we don't want any of our data to leave our building. https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-video-solutions/profession...

It's pricier, e.g. 55" 4k is $3000 CAD, but worth the privacy. We actually got some large ones at a discount because they were all 1080p, and for meeting rooms, nobody needs Powerpoint or Word in 4K, so it was perfect. Just a thought if anyone is looking for good quality TV sets. I also think the limited warranty starts at 3 years.

martin-adams 5 years ago |

I won't be buying a Samsung TV again. I have tried so hard to disable any autoplaying TV channels/adverts when you turn the TV on as they have been inappropriate for my kids. I went as far as pin locking every single channel. But give it a few weeks and it'll start auto playing content when you turn it on.

werber 5 years ago |

I couldn’t even tell you what brand my dumb 4k TV is, but i have it hooked up to my old Mac with a wireless keyboard and I’m very happy. I do not understand the appeal of a television who also controls content. Maybe I’m old school but this article confirmed my gut reaction to the concept

cageface 5 years ago |

Expect more of this as users hold onto their devices for longer and services become increasingly important as a source of recurring revenue. Apple is uniquely positioned to weather this transition. The best way I can see forward for Samsung here is profit sharing with Google and Microsoft.

NietTim 5 years ago |

I've wondered for a bit now: Why isn't jailbreaking TV's a bigger thing? I know there are a few projects, but it isn't nearly as widespread as XBMC was back in the day, for example.

Then again, I don't have a TV for the exact reason listed in this article, I use a big monitor.

nobodyandproud 5 years ago |

Internet of things is a huge antipattern.

I don’t remember where I read this, but a United Labs for information security is overdue.

It won’t directly help with ad injection, but I think the security implications will put a damper on some of this (the cost of maintaining their firmware which Samsung barely does).

DLA 5 years ago |

This is why I will never buy another Samsung. The stupid TV keeps pushing Facebook and CBS apps in the "most recently used" apps; mind you I've NEVER used either. I delete them from the list and within a day they are back. Samsung = screw the user.

sasaf5 5 years ago |

Don't buy a TV, buy a screen and connect it to your own media source. Preferably offline media. You can be a lot more deliberate about the content you consume and there won't be tracking (though there might still be ads in the media).

logicOnly 5 years ago | |

I read about these problems and they really only effect low information consumers.

Anyone that researches can get a TV without ads for hundreds of dollars.

I don't buy anything from Samsung, it sounds like a user issue. Samsung is notorious for being awful.

RandomBacon 5 years ago | | |

> they really only effect low information consumers.

I have a feeling that's about 95+% of consumers.

defnotashton2 5 years ago | | |

Top panels all have these "features" honey.. You can get a shit panel without ads or smarts...

paulus_magnus2 5 years ago |

Can someone with 1st hand experience reassure me I would be able to use a commercial digital signage as a TV??

From what I learned so far the difficulties are: [please also correct me on these]

- stand is not included (need to buy that separately / do a wall mount)

- hard to find a seller

- prices are higher than for equivalent consumer TVs

- brightness is higher -> more power consumption

- there is no antenna (terrestial DVB-T/T2, satellite input) so you have to drive content from USB or PC / Raspberry / xxxCast dongle

The benefit is that you get a "dumb" panel with no spying, ads, software taking snapshots of what you watch. The TV is then also designed to last more hours - commercial panels are on 20h/day.

troydavis 5 years ago | |

I looked in to this about a year ago and found that many digital sign models either (a) omitted relatively basic features like HDR, HDMI ARC, or CEC or (b) weren’t 10% or even 50% higher priced, but 200-300% more (compared to fairly high-end consumer models, not to the cheapest consumer model).

Make sure they actually do what you want, even things that every consumer model has had for years. The situation may have improved in the last year. Also, I only looked at 82-85” models, so the situation may be better on smaller models.

paulus_magnus2 5 years ago | | |

The price premium is there but also plenty opportunities to shop around for a last year's model https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/ProductCategory/31784.h...

for example, Samsung QP82R is an 8k "TV" for €3500.

My worry is can I it decode all standard codecs from USB source? Apparently Samsung in 2017 removed DTS and DivX /Xvid support. Decoding on the TV is key as only then you get the best motion interpolation algorithms. Playing from Raspberry via HDMI you don't get these.

joking 5 years ago | |

everything you said is more or less right, but not everything is a problem.

- There are more difficult to buy, as they are a b2b product, but on amazon they sell some models.

- brightness is higher, depending on the purpose of the monitor, there are monitors for sun facing storefronts, which are way brighter, but those also have fans and are noisier. The ones purposed for indoor are more or less the same brightness of the tvs, and sometimes have sensors for changing the brightness depending the environment, which is actually a plus. - no antenna, some offer iptv, and others actually are android or linux based, so you may even install some apps, but you must configure them manually so much easier to use an external player.

- they are tougher panels, but they are designed for showing ads and static content, so no dark blacks, less contrast and usually less colour gamut coverage.

- not many 4k panels, the are designed to see from a distance, so many are fhd instead of 4k.

- another drawback is that many doesn't have speakers, so you have to hook up your own sound system.

Anyway, I'm in front of a storefront samsung om55n and watched some content and it's ludicrous, at night and the room seems illuminated like during the day.

Samsung also has a business line of tvs, are more like the domestic ones but designed for longer operating times and you can configure them to show slideshows or to have a ticker overlaped. They use the same basic tizen system, but the home screes is different and I doubt you will find ads on them.

Kipters 5 years ago | |

This is rather interesting. My biggest doubt is how many HDMI inputs they have and if it's possible to easily switch between them. But I'll definitely look into this kind of devices when it's time for me to update my current TV. (And no antenna input means the Italian law doesn't consider it a TV, so I can avoid the TV tax)

joking 5 years ago | | |

3 hdmi and a 1 displayport the one I have in front of me. It uses the same remote than the cheap domestic and hospitality ones.

RandomBacon 5 years ago | |

You don't need commercial signage. Sceptre TVs come with stands, Walmart sells them, price is average, has standard TV connectors and remote.

markbnj 5 years ago |

None of our monitors are connected to the Internet. We use them as dumb hdmi displays and that's it, for this and a lot of other reasons. On a side note, I'm just generally growing very dissatisfied with Samsung's business practices, and we've been pretty good customers of theirs. We have a Samsung fridge, and Samsung washer/dryer combo (all three of which are excellent products tbh). I'm on my fourth or fifth Samsung phone, but after several years of them trying to shove Bixby down my gullet along with a bunch of other stuff I don't want I think it will be my last.

mercora 5 years ago |

i declined any agreement i could on a Samsung TV and it does not show those large banner ads to me but sometimes it shows some smaller ad near the source selection area. It looks like if you are paying enough you still get a spot there.

Whats more it constantly installs some partner apps and puts them for quick start into the menu sometimes removing the applications i actually use from there in the process. I prefer using these apps for Netflix and co but every time i plugged it into the ether i feel like i should not and a fear of it getting even worse somehow.

deergomoo 5 years ago | |

Block samsungads.com and config.samsungads.com on your router, if you can. That will get rid of the small ad near the source list.

Then, for the "Samsung Home" app that you can't move from spot number 1 that shows "Featured content" when you cursor over it, set up parental controls and lock access to that app. It will still be there, but it won't show anything when you navigate past it.

mercora 5 years ago | | |

thanks for the tip but i will probably re-investigate using dnsmasq for whitelisting netflix and co using ipsets and nftables. it bothers me a bit having to set this up specifically for the TV but its probably worth it.

neycoda 5 years ago |

Maximizing profit is all about stretching people's tolerances up to the breaking point, making everything miserable for everyone except the few knucklehead's raking in the extra profits.

solarkraft 5 years ago |

I have a 7 series TV and it came with some arguably bloatware apps but I could remove them (from the menu, not uninstall them, which leaves me with not even a few mb to install Spotify). The one thing I can't get rid of is a stupid program guide I have to go over when going from sources to settings. That's it so far. I'm in Europe and disagreed with any data collection they asked about.

Does it now even still do the ACR? Are they going to retroactively install me ads? Are there specific domain names one should block? Alternative firmwares?

Kaze404 5 years ago |

I've only ever bought one Samsung product. It's a smart TV presumably meant to be used for Steam Link purposes. When it arrived and I turned it on, I found out that not only the Steam Link app was not available for my model, but it also had no Bluetooth support for controllers (only for audio devices???). I double checked the product page and it very clearly shows, to this date, steam Link and controller support. Obviously their customer support team didn't care.

AznHisoka 5 years ago |

Almost all Smart TVs have this type of ad in the home screen but the obtrusiveness varies. For my Roku Tv, it is a small banner on the left side that you can ignore easily and isn’t a huge deal. I bet it contributes very little revenue.

For all of them, their main money maker is ads on free video content. Most of them have a channel/section filled with free tv shows/movies (usuaully b level content) and they make the majority of their revenue showing ads on this content.

loughnane 5 years ago |

I switched over my router the other day and while I was debugging some minor issues I briefly had internet without Pi-Hole.

I was stunned by the prominence and intrusiveness by the ads on my Roku, even with already knowing it calls home several times a minute.

Once everything was back up and running things were back to normal. My setup is a dumb Spectre with a great screen with a Roku connected for Netflix and Plex/Jellyfin. Combined with a pi-hole it makes for a pretty clean experience.

flerchin 5 years ago |

Like probably most folks here, I block ads at the pihole, and rarely ever see them. I actually pay for YouTube so that they don't show my kids any ads when they're not on my network.

I don't think I'm buying things based on ads, at all, but the adtech guys would surely disagree. I also find it hard to square the near universal loathing of ads with the draw of Times Square. I too enjoyed the lights of the ads.

beervirus 5 years ago | |

The ones in Times Square (probably) don’t spy on you (yet).

karmakaze 5 years ago |

I've found that I prefer LG products over Samsung. I've had a number of LG phones and monitors that get down to business without too many bells, whistles, and other extras of questionable value. Samsung phones tend to be more 'customized'. I don't have specific/recent experience with either brands' TVs but seems to be in line with expectations.

nicolas_t 5 years ago |

Can those "smart" TV do ACR on content provided via HDMI? i.e. if I connect my apple TV to my intrusive smart TV, does it do ACR on the signal it receives via HDMI?

At home I don't have a smart TV (I use a JVC video projector and they've resisted adding those kind of useless feature so far) but my parents use a smart TV connected to an apple TV and so I'm curious what happens there.

solarkraft 5 years ago | |

Yep, they can. AFAIK it's some real processing on the signal.

I do wonder what kind of content it can detect and in which modes.

fsaintjacques 5 years ago | |

It sure does.

qppo 5 years ago |

I don't mind ads so much on my tv (it's a tv after all) as the notion that they will substantively change the quality and behavior of a device after point of sale with no means to revert or refund the purchase.

At least when I subscribe to a SaaS and they roll out changes I dislike, I can choose to stop paying them and move to a competitor.

Non security updates should always be opt-in.

rini17 5 years ago |

When I wrote about phones "Mass market is demanding products nonsensically thin to the detriment of other properties, because it was told to. It could be told otherwise." I got laughed off. That the market isn't going to serve my fancy preferences.

But this is the same thing, the market is repeatedly told to ask for smart devices, even when dumb TV is all the users need.

kmlx 5 years ago | |

i disagree. i think that age has passed and tvs without the netflix app will simply not be bought.

for myself, having no 4k hdr, no netflix, apple tv, youtube, bbc, and many others is a deal breaker when it comes to buying a new tv.

JohnBooty 5 years ago | | |

You're being downvoted, but I think you're right.

Personally, I would pay more for a TV without this functionality. I'm running one of the last "dumb" consumer TVs, from 2015.

But the overwhelming majority of consumers just want smart TV stuff built right into their TVs.

It's like power windows and air conditioning in cars. They used to be premium features. Now, you really can't buy a car without them, at least in the USA.

(Pedantry note: As late as ~2014, you could still buy a Nissan Versa with manual windows; perhaps it's still possible)

okr 5 years ago | |

Seems like, there are a lot of opinions out there. I often hear, what i can do on my phone i also want to see on tv. May it be playing music, movies, series, etc.. So a seamless integration from the start without another device like apple tv is a plus.

Same happens to screen in cars.

fxtentacle 5 years ago | | |

In cars, you usually just connect your phone with a cable. I would be happy to connect my phone to a TV and then just have it mirror the screen.

cbanek 5 years ago |

First off, I hate ads, and I think hardware shouldn't have ads in it.

But on the other hand, the argument "I paid all this money and I still get ads" is honestly something I've been hearing about cable companies for decades. In the end, if something can make money (as in, people will pay) that's sadly the way it will go.

youjustwait2030 5 years ago |

You just wait a few year for ATSC 3.0(https://www.atsc.org/nextgen-tv/) to get adopted and then you will see way more ads. The content you will see on the TV will be rendered like a webpage. Enter more data collection and more ads. Enjoy. :)

_vufv 5 years ago |

I "solved" this problem by having an Amazon Fire stick plugged in all the time and selecting it as the default input. Samsung's own menu shows in the tray at the bottom and Fire Stick's menu fills the rest of the screen. It's also super convenient because the selection of apps on Samsung's store is very limited.

qwertox 5 years ago |

I'm glad my TV isn't smart enough to display ads. Should I ever decide to buy a new TV (my current one is an old 32"), it should be as dumb as possible. Smart enough to react to a WOL packet, be remote-controllable via TCP and be happy to live blocked behind a firewall.

I leave the intelligence to other devices which I connect to the TV.

impartial-word 5 years ago |

I have a Samsung TV and the best decision I made was buying the Apple TV; right now I don’t care about the applications it has, the fact that Netflix has been removed for my model as it’s already 4 years old, etc. My next TV will be as dumb as possible as Smart-TVs are a pain in the ass and never as intelligent as an Apple TV or similar.

EtienneK 5 years ago | |

If you are able to find a good "dumb" TV, please let us know.

deergomoo 5 years ago | |

Unfortunately you will likely find that if you want anything towards the high-end, a dumb TV just won't be an option.

daveKoala 5 years ago |

We could invoice Samsung for our attention. It must have value as they are making money from it and it has value to me too

lykr0n 5 years ago |

Samsung is forever on my Shit list. They inject ads into their computers, tablets, smartphones, and TVs.

I'm happy with my LG TV, which the only "ads" they have are:

- Highlighting new "TV Channels" which is ... acceptable. I don't know why anyone would want/care about the Hyundai TV channel

- installing Disney+ automatically

thom 5 years ago |

If I'm reasonably happy with Chromecast (not interested in litigating who spies on me most here), is there some setup I can achieve with just a large PC monitor and some HDMI jiggery pokery to hook up a sound system? I hate the thought of paying for all this gunk I never use, I really just need the panel.

mercora 5 years ago | |

this is probably a good use case for an AVR (audio video receiver). you can plug the chromecast and your monitor directly to the amp and let the AVR route signals appropriately.

nelaboras 5 years ago |

New Sony Xperia 10 ii phone came for us with ads in the notification area, stemming from some pre-installed news app. Not to mention Spotify, Facebook, etc being preinstalled. Easy fux but really disappointing, next phone will be Fairphone or Swift phone so I don't support these big corps anymore.

rishabhd 5 years ago |

That's why I opt for "non smart" TV's and then connect them with either a PS3/ PS4 to make them smart my own way. I get all the goodness of netflix and am not bothered by ads. Not to mention pihole is also configured as a local ad blocker in my network to keep those pesky ads out.

_zzaw 5 years ago |

I wonder how many people who buy TVs read reviews on them beforehand. I always do, and I wouldn’t consider any device that came with this garbage.

I have a feeling this will last about as long as it takes for consumers to get a sense for what models come with ads. No one wants this on a device they already paid for.

p49k 5 years ago | |

These ads starting appearing on my TV two years after I bought it. There were no ads before that. No reviews mentioned ads. There is no way to disable them in settings.

Yes I could disconnect it from the network but that would defeat one of the reasons I did buy it and which was mentioned in reviews: high-quality built in apps for Netflix and other services.

_zzaw 5 years ago | | |

That is insane. Obviously there’s nothing you can do to avoid something like that. I guess most of us were under the naive impression that, having paid for our televisions, we were entitled to use them in peace.

I might still be naive, but my point was more that I’m having trouble imagining how the reputational damage to Samsung here wouldn’t, ultimately, impact sales. If I was thinking of buying a Samsung TV and my neighbor told me that his suddenly started throwing ads in his face, I’d never consider anything from Samsung.

It might take a little time for the word to spread, but am I wrong in assuming this tactic will turn out to be disastrously unpopular with consumers?

lumberingjack 5 years ago |

My Samsung phone has been doing stuff like this lately too accidentally hit the bixby button all the sudden you're in and dated with Samsung store apps asking you to rate them like use the calculator that's built in "please rate this on the Samsung store"

cabalamat 5 years ago |

I've never bought a "smart" TV, and i never will.

It's not smart to buy "smart" appliances, since any intelligence they have will work towards the interests of the companies that made them, not the purchasor.

TheHypnotist 5 years ago |

Are non-smart TV's still a thing? Smart TV's aren't necessary from a consumer standpoint.

ta8964586 5 years ago | |

Lots of companies have "digital signage" TVs built for business that don't have the consumer software. They are typically more expensive and optimized more for continuous usage (16hr/day 7days/week for samsung), but as of now I don't believe they get ads pushed to them.

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/products/displays/4k-uhd...

chris_wot 5 years ago |

Far better to purchase a large screen, then get a TV capture card, and just use a media player platform.

_br80_ 5 years ago |

Is there any way to flash a Samsung TV with a custom firmware similar to RockBox?

I hope it's only a matter of time.

gowthamgts12 5 years ago |

when i was looking to buy an oled tv, i never even considered samsung because of this problem. I went with lg c9. ads are there but very very minimal compared to samsung tvs.

you'll be thrilled how much data these "smart" tvs collect when you plug it to your local DNS server.

pfundstein 5 years ago |

Here's wondering if these ads can be blocked simply with a DNS based blocker like PiHole.

foepys 5 years ago | |

As far as I know, not everything can be blocked.

You were able to block everything in the past but no longer. Samsung catched on and now serves some ads over the same domains they distribute their firmware updates, install apps, get the program guide, and check the online status.

If you block those domains the Samsung TV loses most of its internet features and also seems to go crazy and requests all domains multiple times per second, defeating deep sleep of the TV.

ComodoHacker 5 years ago | | |

I think it is possible to serve fake ads from Pi-hole.

jonny_eh 5 years ago |

And TV reviewers will continue to gloss over this and focus on pointless test patterns.

FpUser 5 years ago |

I can't even remember when was the last time I've used the actual TV. Whatever TV's I have all act as a monitors hooked up to computers and I do not let those "smart" things connect to the network at all.

seddin 5 years ago |

This is why I've bought a TV with no internet access, when I want to watch something I just plug a Chromebook or whatever laptop I have via HDMI and watch whatever I want without no ads (thank you so much uBlock Origin devs).

tyingq 5 years ago |

Wow, and it seems it's built into flows like changing input.

I happen to only use my tv as a single input HDMI display, using my Roku for everything. I suppose they could still force ads in that situation, but I assume they haven't yet.

systemBuilder 5 years ago |

20 years ago I predicted that advertisers would get a lot passed that made your front door a billboard owned by the city so they could put all the ads they wanted on your front door. I was just a few years too early!

j45 5 years ago |

Ideally it should be better to hook up your own smart device to smart TVs because the smarts are always evolving, and TVs are generally behind anyways.

Building apps into a TV is a really nice idea, but there has to be a better way.

comeonseriously 5 years ago |

As the article points out, Google is doing similar with Android TV. I'm not happy. I bought a Shield TV for a higher-end experience. I don't want ads on my home screen. I know, ToS, etc.. Bah! No excuse!

ksec 5 years ago |

This is the Best opportunity to gather support to push Apple to make a proper TV set. One that value privacy, and something I have been advocating for years. ( And hopefully a return of Airport Express as well )

dmos62 5 years ago |

With small HDMI capable media boxes (e.g. rpi, chromecast) becoming increasingly available, it's time for TVs to die and dumb monitors to take their place. Like PC monitors, but not designed for the desk.

termau 5 years ago |

Find IP address is connecting to for the ad server, and block it at the router? Its a sad fucking world when I have to suggest this - I flat out wouldn't buy a tv with adware but yeah should work.

anon776 5 years ago |

I setup a pi-hole on a pi4 a few months ago, then made my router announce it as the primary DNS server for my house. So far, my samsung TV and peloton bike are the most blocked clients in the house.

switch007 5 years ago |

My friend's Samsung TV has Bluetooth permanently enabled, so every time a neighbour turns on a Bluetooth device, the TV asks if she'd like to connect to it. I'll never buy a Samsung device.

OnACoffeeBreak 5 years ago |

I didn't see this mentioned, and some of the posts imply that there are not smart TVs without ads, but my TCL TV running Roku TV bought last year and connected to the Internet does not have any ads.

senorjazz 5 years ago | |

same, I have a samsung tv and use the smart features all the time (youtube) and have never seen an ad.

:-s

thecopy 5 years ago |

I bought a 4K Samsung The Frame. When i turned it on it requested that I agree to several agreements and it wanted me to connect it to the internet.

I declined everything and hooked it up to my Apple TV. Super happy.

failuser 5 years ago |

I wish that it’s just a step in the master plan to market plain old dumb TVs. Too bad it won’t really happen, the best outcome would be a few more pi-holes or similar devices installed.

partiallypro 5 years ago |

One of the reasons I avoided as hard as I could getting a "SmartTV" and went for a standard LED display. Those are getting harder and harder to come by though.

blacklight 5 years ago |

I've got a Samsung TV in a network with PiHole and the strictest blacklist rules. And I watch YouTube over Kodi. I've never seen a single ad on my smart TV.

akerro 5 years ago |

Do you guys connect your TVs to internet? I know my TV has WiFi and Eth port, but I never thought about connecting it online, it's as useless as Euro Scart.

qppo 5 years ago | |

Yes. It would be highly inconvenient for me to connect it to my home PC which is in a different room, I don't want to buy or build a HTPC just to connect to Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon Prime, I use my phone as a remote most of the time, and the tv wasn't too expensive.

Not to mention, the ads on the home screen are less intrusive and far less numerous than on Comcast's cable box.

akerro 5 years ago | | |

> Comcast's cable box.

Isn't Comcast also a paid service? You (US) get ads in tv broadcast you pay for?

I haven't seen any TV broadcast for over 10 years now, my TV has only chromecast and it only plays what I stream to it.

umvi 5 years ago |

Couldn't you just buy the TV but not let it connect to your WiFi? Then just use Chromecast/Roku/AppleTV/etc. to get internet to your TV.

noisy_boy 5 years ago |

Whats next? LineageOS for TVs? PineTV? There is a pattern emerging if its not clear by now - open software on open hardware is the only long term solution.

shellfishgene 5 years ago | |

Well there is SamyGO which let's you root and patch your Samsung TV, for SSH and other access, at least in older models. Not a firmware replacement but a step in the right direction ;)

sanderjd 5 years ago |

Was this straightforwardly disclosed to people before they bought these TVs? If not, a regulatory punishment and/or class action suit is in order.

araker 5 years ago |

This is exactly the reason why I keep my smart tv dumb. Never connected it to the internet, all playback is being done with a chromecast or mediaplayer.

kavi87 5 years ago |

I am actively preventing anyone from buying from Samsung

TooCreative 5 years ago |

Why still buy a "TV"? Why not just a monitor and attach some device to it that receives the TV signal and lets you switch channels etc?

patchtopic 5 years ago | |

find me a 55 inch monitor for $1000 AUD to use as my TV (with dedicated HTPC) and I'll be all over it..

JauntyHatAngle 5 years ago |

This is why I continue to use a Chromecast rather than using the native smart tv functionality.

Ill let my TV be a dumb TV that I can simply send a signal to.

adwww 5 years ago |

I walk into a department store or electronic shop, will I see these adverts demoed on the menus there?

It would only be fair to let people know what to expect!

martin_a 5 years ago | |

Nah, those devices most likely run in "demo mode" which will obviously have ads disabled but is not suitable for home use... ;-)

sbmthakur 5 years ago |

Has anyone tried to block these with PiHole? I have a PiHole running but I don't own a Smart TV, so not sure how it will work out.

pnw_hazor 5 years ago |

Keeping my dumb 1080p 60" plasma LG forever.

Basic cable box (used rarely), roku, and PS4 provide plenty of "smarts" for me.

sizzle 5 years ago |

This is why I'll never use another Samsung product again after putting up the their antics on their galaxy line of phones.

Animats 5 years ago |

Do they use facial recognition yet? Recognizing who's seen which ad, what they watch, and their age and gender should be useful.

whalesalad 5 years ago |

Turn off their onboard ethernet/wifi devices (delete your WPA key info etc...). My Samsung TV's are dumb as hell now <3

throw03172019 5 years ago |

Here is how to fix it: disable wifi on your Samsung “Smart” TV and buy an Apple TV, etc. no more ads. No more laggy Samsung UI.

alienfilesystem 5 years ago |

While it shouldn't even be a thing on a TV (ads) since I've paid for the TV, but Pi-hole kills this dead in its tracks.

yummypaint 5 years ago |

There really needs to be open source tv firmware

joshuaheard 5 years ago |

Tivo started running a commercial before watching a recorded show. Ads in the Comcast menu was one reason I switched to Tivo.

projektfu 5 years ago |

Weird. I've got a Samsung QLED 4k TV (Q60) and I've never seen an ad. I suppose I'll keep my eyes open.

otcalex 5 years ago |

I had to add ads.samsung.com to my block list on my router but it's made using the TV way nicer and a little faster

cm2187 5 years ago |

I am assuming that all TV reviews will assign 1 start to Samsung devices from now on. I wouldn't touch that shit.

cs702 5 years ago |

Without harsh government rules to prevent this kind of insidious behavior, this sort of thing is... inevitable.

acvny 5 years ago |

Wait for the ads in your dreams just like depicted in Futurama. Go ads go. But seriously as a solution try pihole.

pmoriarty 5 years ago |

Unsolicited advertising should be banned.

RandomBacon 5 years ago | |

Don't worry, they'll make sure you agreed to it on page 193 of the 365 page ToS that you didn't read but agreed to anyway when you turned the TV on the first time.

tmaly 5 years ago |

If I start seeing ads on my Samsung TV, I will donate the tv and never buy another Samsung product.

mancerayder 5 years ago |

My Samsung is getting long in the tooth.

What's a good competitor that doesn't do this? Sony?

NewOrderNow 5 years ago |

This is why I try to find dumb TVs though it is getting harder and harder to do that

torgian 5 years ago |

What the fuck. You can't even get away from ads after _paying_ for a product.

trulyrandom 5 years ago |

This is an article from March. Has Samsung responded? Are ads still being shown?

kraig911 5 years ago |

I'm one of the owners. I'm never buying a samsung anything again.

bathtub365 5 years ago |

I love my Samsung TV, I just don't let it connect to the Internet

everdrive 5 years ago |

Definitely don't buy smart TVs. Is it still possible to buy a dumb TV these days? Who cares, Don't buy a smart TV. TV isn't all that great anyhow, it's mostly a bunch moralizing hidden behind a plot and some sarcasm. Leave it behind.

f6v 5 years ago |

I wish there was an Apple TV, which is, you know, a TV.

teekert 5 years ago |

Ok, bye bye Samsung!

blahyawnblah 5 years ago |

Block your TV's mac address in your router

echelon 5 years ago |

We can kill advertising.

It may not work for the smart tv case, but I imagine a device or filter program that I can plug in that detects ads with a neutral network. It wouldn't turn off the ads, but instead transform them into unpleasant imagery that creates incredibly negative brand images. It would be designed to permanently subconsciously tarnish a brand.

McDonald's human trafficking

Nike genocide

Spouse-beating Walmart

Coca-cola rotten corpse

I want to deploy this widely to destroy advertising. If ads got detected and replaced with images designed to embed and evoke negative reactions, advertisers would stop.

We need something this drastic to fight back.

DrJaws 5 years ago |

they already put ads on their 1400€ phones, so this is not surprising.

hopefully it ends badly for them on the long term

pm24601 5 years ago |

makes me want to give up TV

martin_a 5 years ago | |

Thought about this, too.

I only use my TV to watch YouTube or Amazon Prime through the PS4. But as I'm burning enough time on that (the first one) already on my phone, maybe I should buy/build in aquarium in that place, once the TV dies. Probably more relaxing in the end. And ads-free for sure!

sorwin 5 years ago |

Why are actual privacy issues like this not covered by any media outlets? I'm tired of hearing about Trump all day.

xtat 5 years ago |

class action pls

logicOnly 5 years ago |

Samsung has crappy products? I'm shocked /s

Samsung is cut from the same cloth as Apple. Huge advertising budgets to get the sale. Abuse of customers after purchase.

aaron695 5 years ago |

HN: Loves AR

Every SciFi movie: The only use they can think of for AR is Ads

matty22 5 years ago |

"I bought an internet-enabled ad delivery platform and put it in my living room. Why is it showing me advertising?!"

Of course, it's showing you advertising, that's what the internet is for according to the advertising scum of the world.

Maybe don't buy a 'smart' TV next time?

xenadu02 5 years ago |

Obviously you can buy "commercial signage" displays which are panels without the crapware.

Anyone have recommendations for units they've bought this way? I've avoided upgrading my super old LCD because at least my current one is somewhat stupid and so long as I don't connect it to the network it mostly does what I bought it for: display the pixels.

saiya-jin 5 years ago | |

Unnecessarily expensive. Just use any TV without allowing internet. Not connecting some (maybe not newest) TV vs not connecting commercial panel should be about same amount of work.

I use few year old Sony like that, couldn't care less about any of these complaints. It requires trips to PC to manage content, which I think is the biggest hurdle of this approach for lazy couch potatoes.

newhotelowner 5 years ago | |

I am thinking about upgrading TVs at my hotel and 49 inch low to medium quality is between $440-600. These are designed for hotel/hospitals.

conradfr 5 years ago | |

Do they have sound?

newhotelowner 5 years ago | | |

They have sound.

CamperBob2 5 years ago | | |

Who uses their TV for sound? I don't even know if mine has a built-in speaker.

It's unreasonable to expect the average person on the street to be an expert on the subject and to have fully researched everything before walking into a store, so if the TV's packaging doesn't say anything about the subject, how do they learn?