Not Everyone has to go to College(blog.skillshare.com) |
Not Everyone has to go to College(blog.skillshare.com) |
1. College doesn't guarantee success.
2. Not everyone should go to college.
But here's where we diverge: I believe we'll never get to the point where everyone will "succeed". We all want our kids to succeed, but our definition of success is usually based on things like "have a high-paying job", "be important", "be powerful" or "be famous". This is because we want our kids to be happy and we come up with cookie-cutter solutions for happiness: "have a high-paying job" supplants "not have to have headaches about money", "be important", "be powerful" and "be famous" supplant "be harder to oppress by society or more powerful people".
To me, that seems to be a more fundamental problem than the problem of education and one a lot harder to solve. Disclaimer: Please don't take this as a criticism; on the contrary, when you have two important problems and you can see the solution to the one that's easier, it's a lot better to try to solve it than to sit down and lament the fact that you can't solve the harder one.
That said, I believe that we should define "success" differently for our kids. I believe we should give them a different goal: happiness. Believe it or not, you don't have to achieve greatness to be happy. As long as you can enjoy your work, your family and your life in general, you can be happy, without Leaving Your Footprints In The Sands Of History.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't teach our kids to strive to achieve as much as they can. It just means that we should try to encourage them to look for their own path to happiness. It shouldn't matter if theirs doesn't happen to pass through fame, power, influence or riches, as long as it leads them to happiness.
I want humans to achieve cool things -- build AIs, end disease and death, and settle on other planets. If everybody sought their own happiness I fear that progress would be much slower.
Like I said in my comment, I don't mean to imply we shouldn't teach our kids to strive for great achievements. There's nothing to say they can't be happy striving to "better themselves and the rest of humanity"; nor is there anything to say that seeking happiness precludes bettering yourself and others.
Bear in mind that I'm talking about happiness, rather than gratification. I'm not proposing to teach our kids to be hedonists. Just because I'm not content or satisfied all the time, doesn't mean I'm not happy. To quote Frank Herbert's "Children of Dune":
"Tell me, Namri, are you content?"
"No." The words came out flat, spontaneous rejection.
"Then do you blaspheme?"
"Of course not!"
"But you aren't contented. You see, Gurney? Namri proves it to us. Every question, every problem doesn't have a single correct answer."
I truely hope you are sucessful in instilling among your children the ideal that the advancement of the human race is more important than advancement of self.
Interestingly coming from another country to US I had a little bit of a different understanding of "success". It meant something like a general "good luck", or "happiness".
Here (in US) it seems to a code word for "lots of money" and "power over people". One wouldn't refer to someone who decides to live in a remote hut in the woods, fishing and hunting but having 0 income and not managing anyone as "successful".
Would you refer to someone like that as successful?
I think some, unspoken, element of the definition of success is "more successful than others" . This is usually related to accomplishing some difficult task or solving a difficult problem others have failed to solve. There needs to be a relevant reference point for comparison.
Otherwise, we are all incredibly successful compared to our ancestors(and many less lucky people in other parts of the world) at obtaining food and water, having a long lifespan, etc.
Not only that but the parts about Skillshare itself are so disguised that I still don't have a firm grasp of why should I go there and what can I do there besides "learn" (I can just google a cupcake recipe, why should I learn through you?).
Now about the content itself - as someone from outside of the US, I'm amazed and frightened at this phenomenon. There were similar threads on reddit with people with over 200,000$ of debt. This is irrational and borderline irresponsible to owe someone so much money. I think education should be reconsidered and a better method tried. With the internet and the wealth of information on it, I find it hard to believe we can't optimize and improve upon the current education structures.
Edit: After exploring the site, I think I really like it. I'd probably like it more if I lived in NY, where most of the classes take place :) I think this idea is great and worth expanding,
I think, since your site is fairly young, it will benefit a user voice page, since I can think of tonnes of things I'd like to see there.
I also upvote any and all comments within such posts that supply the content in a more readable format.
The point is it goes kind of fast.
I went through the slides and every one had content worth reading. The flow of it was good too.
Now I'm the idiot for not having a degree, while those same guys I knew all have fantastic jobs. I think that many companies just use degree requirements as resume filtering tools and nothing more. It doesn't seem to matter that you can't write or that you learned nothing.
Those friends who cruised through school and have good careers, did they actually stop at a BA? Or do they have, say, accountancy qualifications? Masters degrees gained while working? Memberships of professional institutions, working towards being chartered in their profession?
Obviously I don't know the answer to that, and it varies a lot between industries - many programmers here on HN get by fine with talent and experience, and don't feel pushed to gain extra qualifications. But depending what you do, qualifications can open doors to other qualifications and over a long career it might make quite a bit of difference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_U...
so while you don't need college/university you absolutely need 1-3. I picked up #1 in university because i went to a lousy, impoverished high school. I mostly taught myself #2 and #3. A new learning community focused on narrow skill acquisition won't help students acquire 1-3.
Investing in basic education will fix these problems, both investing in teachers and in pushing kids to just fucking study and take learning seriously.
This article is the "High Cost of Low Teacher Salaries" http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/opinion/01eggers.html?_r=1... is much more relevant in my opinion.
best of luck w/ skillshare but please don't think it will teach calculus to people who can't add.
While mikekarnj has some interesting points about education and the obvious higher ed bubble, he is apparently unaware of education concept of "scaffolding" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructional_scaffolding
Worth checking out the answer just for the unambiguous the answer is. (Answer starts at 3:00)
http://freakonomicsradio.com/does-college-still-matter-and-o...
[Spoiler alert: the answer is 'hell yes' (paraphrased).]
You can't argue with the global statement over time college education results in a greater income on average. However, what was pointed out in the OP was how balanced is the average?
Also I thought Levitt's point about comparing Vietnam draft high number lottery 'winners' not going to college versus lower number lottery winners attending college was weak simply because it was 40 years ago.
The experience we have as IT people is really deeply skewed. The IT industry really barely existed ~25 years ago. Saying that education doesn't matter because a handful of high-school/college/university dropouts made it big riding the coattails of an enormous technological change is really misguided. We get away without credentials here and there simply because so much of this stuff is so new. This is a quirk of this particular moment in time. It won't last. Once that change settles down, degrees will be required for just about every IT job. Hell, that's getting to be the case already.
This statistic about 17 million Americans having degrees in jobs that don't require them has appeared a few times in various articles. It's said as though the people went to school _intending_ to be an overqualified waiter. If that were the case, I would agree that is a terrible waste. With years of aggressive outsourcing, the effective destruction of the manufacturing sector behind us, and a recession all around us, can we really accept that statistic just as it is offered to us?
If student loans have just surpassed credit card debt I agree that is a problem. But if education is to expensive then do something about the cost of education. Don't go telling people to drop out and have their world view shaped by something as meagre as a job or a bit of travel. The only way to develop your brain is to have someone push you to think. Hard. Yes there are examples of this happening outside school but not as many as you think.
Really I think uneducated people are social equivalent of infected PC's on a network; they make things bad for everyone. More education, not less is crucial if we are going to make any progress as a society.
Just my two cents.
But the question is, do we get an education from colleges that we wouldn't be able to get without them?
But, watching the slides, jumping from "you don't have to go to college" to Skillshare gave me the impression (even though the slides didn't say) that Skillshare is a substitute for a college education, which it clearly is not. Based on the current courses, it's more like a "social tradeschool". I'm not saying you are misleading, but the presentation may be.
The 2 older boys both have degrees, the youngest dropped out despite good grades (chosen degree: English major) saying it wasn't what she wanted to do - and got a job at Panera Bread, where she is rather quickly moving from cashier to training.
The old guy is really stressed about it, to him and his generation, if you don't have a degree, you have no real future.
Given that the daughter is doing well, has essentially zero debt, is not addicted to anything, and enjoying her job and getting promoted--in contrast to many who are having trouble landing any kind of job; well, I am trying to nicely tell him not to worry so much.
The basic question is, why the hell don't you learn for the sake of learning. I did that. Promise. I have an inability to study for grades. So fine, I am doing ok. I took classes, I really enjoyed them (though I struggled a lot), and I learnt a lot. I love school - its the best way to learn things in a structured way, and meet really crazy smart people doing that.
I'll be honest though, I went to pretty selective school - it took me a while to get in (but I did) and it was really an awesome experience. M.I.T. was an especially great experience.
But of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and so am I.
I think that it boils down to more than just sharing skill sets, but that is certainly a good start. I argue that primarily, people have to become autodidacts and learn from the wealth of free information that can be found on the internet and elsewhere.
It's actually taboo, but we now assume that someone who graduated from college probably sucks but is willing to do boring tasks.
Everyone should have a trade, though. And there needs to be some framing of background - call it 'education' - to be able to have a cultural awareness and to also ably manage practicing ones trade.
I hear MIT's OCW is quite good now, though I haven't used it much myself. Might be a good place to start. Honestly, there are many great resources out there; just pick something and get started.
Cheap schools are a good idea, and I completely agree with that. But it can be hard to work and learn on a schedule; many people would do much better if they are able to learn at their own pace.
Whatever you are interested in, pick a book and study about it. If you are having trouble, go online and ask. What more can a college give you?
Why should I pay $25 to spend 2 hours with a random person who may or may not be a competent teacher? You trash college a lot, but you don't do anything to inspire confidence in the Skillshare teachers or 'curriculum' (if there is any).
How long can a society afford it to let gifted people clean desks and wash cars instead of giving them the education they deserve to create benefits for the society?
Every educational system which expects people to pay tuitions gives a up long-term benefits for a short-term monetary gain.
Additionally it teaches young people that it is OK to have debts. It is not. Never. Don't buy what you can't pay.
While I make a good salary and will probably continue to do so for the rest of my life (particularly because on of my present motivations is to start a company of my own), the driving factor behind my success has been my upbringing. I grew up in a shattered immigrant family. We never had enough money. It was gigantic source of stress for me. Constant fights between parents, moving at least once every two years, always made fun of for the way I dressed and carried myself. Never really had any friends.
My only recourse at the time was to fall into petty criminal activity and associating myself with hoods. "Lucky" for me, the constant moving due to being broke prevented me from creating any long lasting relationships with scum.
Eventually I found myself living in a small town far away from where I grew up. No friends. No skills. Too scared/smart to do anything illegal.
I spent the entirety of my time over the course of 4 years learning software development. I took on side projects that I was way under qualified for and learned as I went. My only motivation was money so we could eat. This was my college education. I didn't spend any time enjoying myself (other than playing video games between working). I worked for 12-16 hours per day, 7 days a week, no exaggeration.
The side effects of this? I still don't have any friends (most people made them in uni or carried them over from high school). While I do have interests and several personal hobbies, I don't do anything particularly well other than my work. The overwork of those 4 years became a part of my personality. All I do is work. Actually, it's Sunday and I'm working in a coffee shop right now. Yesterday I spent the beginning part of my day with my kid, then after noon I worked until 9pm. I'm not complaining or whining; I'm actively working on fixing the things that were broken due to my early life experience. In ~5 years I expect to restore a sense of normality to my life, but I'll never stop working like a maniac :)
The reason I told you this story is to emphasize how important it is to have a drive. It doesn't matter what your driving factor is. Could get getting laid. Could be money. Could be fame. Could a fear of being broke. Could be a fear of failure.
I don't expect my son to relive my life because he has a stable home with 2 loving parents. Instead, I will rigorously push the status quo. He must get good grades. He must go to university. Then I'll see how he handles it and make changes according to what I believe is good for him.
If he fails miserably at school, I'll try to understand why. Is it because he's an idiot, that is, mentally incapable of doing the work? Then I'll be happy if he becomes an auto mechanic and doesn't fall into drugs/crime. Is it because he isn't challenged enough and doesn't like school? That's fine, but he will be responsible for supporting himself the minute he believes he's an adult.
So all in all, I don't care if my kid goes to uni. I don't care if he does. What I care about is him having the motivation, drive, and passion to do something productive and contribute to society.
However, if they exhibit signs of being average then I would push them to get a degree. Because at least they'll know how to follow some sort of procedure and get a decent job without really needing to excel beyond their peers.
In reality though, I'm sure it won't be such a black and white problem.
Often times I find myself in the middle of a conversation about greek philosophy with some coworkers, for example. Mind you none of these people are anywhere expert level in these topics but they all have an introductory set of knowledge to draw from. I have nothing. Luckily, my parents (as crazy as they were) were HIGHLY intellectual and infused some knowledge in stubborn brain. When I was a kid, my mom FORCED me to spend 1 hour per day reading classic literature. Damn I hated that. So now when people bring up War and Peace, I'm like, "Yea I read that" (whoo)
Anyway, point is there are side effects that are usually untold.
My oldest is an Athletic Trainer and will never be outsourced. The twins are totally different. One is in textbook editing and the other will end up as a college soccer coach. At least they won't have to worry about this country undercutting what should be a professional wage.
I've been sending emails about job opportunities as crazy lately and I am really glad that the majority of the people I talk to ask me for samples of my work in terms of coding and or project design rather than instead of exams results.
And it's sad that I don't have a lot of things to show because I've been thinking that I'll be okay just by doing the silly coursework.
It depends if they define themselves as successful. That is the distinction. Being judged by others as successful vs setting personal goals and begin successful at accomplishing those goals. If those goals are to live in nature, hunt, fish then they are perhaps very successful (in my sense of the word) but certainly not in the traditionally American sense.
If that person does what it always wanted to do, this person is obviously successful.
Note to myself: The American definition of "success" is much more f*cked up than expected. No wonder that they have these problems recently...