Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship(hardware.substack.com) |
Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship(hardware.substack.com) |
I want ALL my subscriptions to go through Apple Pay and App store.
Once I subscribed to New York times. The newspaper that was advertised to me for years in all Hollywood movies as a place where honesty and freedom are of highest priority. I had to spend an hour on a phone with their representatives to cancel it refusing to accept discount or a free subscription.
I don't trust many other companies. Especially if all my interactions with them are virtual and they are not specialized in information technology. At least big tech is quite rich to afford to think about users.
Each bank got their app and added some obvious features there: pay for utilities, for your phone etc. I want more progress here. I want to be able to see all my fees upfront in a clear format. I want to know my credit score. I want to be able to take this credit score to different organizations. etc. etc.
Big hope that fin tech will blow it up, but unfortunately start ups didn't deliver. There are some successful ones, but I think finance is too regulated for them to have a shot at a serious scale. Apple and Google have a shot at that and they will create a road for smaller companies.
The situation in Belarus is bad. And believe me I know. I was concerned as well about my device security. But to be honest at the end of the day it can't be Apple's problem. Belarussian government must be replaced by Belarussian people and Apple has nothing to do with that. And on top of that - what choice do I have. Android devices in Russia are preinstalled with Russian software while Apple's aren't. That's more important sign for me.
You do so only because you believe have no choice as you know that your democracy is so crippled that you don't expect them to protect your rights as a consumer any more!
Where as many Europeans and Asians, who also enjoy democratic rights, will tell you openly that we would prefer that our democratically elected government protect our consumer rights through regulations that bind all corporates to behave themselves.
Secondly, I might want to buy/subscribe to things that come from companies outside of EU.
The top 10 conglomerates from South Korea amount to more than half their GDP. This level of centralization alone should tell you how the regulations are enacted to protect the corporations, not the people.
If Germany (and more generally Brussels) was actually serious about environmental regulations, VW and all the German car makers would be exterminated after Dieselgate. Instead they got one or two scapegoats for VW (and no, the CEO being ousted and still receiving a generous retirement package does not count) and made it clear that the regulations are there just to give the people the illusion of control.
"For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law" -- this is what your democratically elected government is giving you.
What about defining a standard subscription protocol that allows any company to offer subscription management, and allow consumers to change their subscription manager if they are not happy?
Putting all your eggs in one nest because you currently like it is a very risky gamble.
Banking has worked with standards for decades that allow interoperability and competition.
> But to be honest at the end of the day it can't be Apple's problem.
That's why the trust in one company should be very limited. As a non USA consumer, I will prefer some one else managing my data.
Unfortunately, people need something that works right now.
Someone could make a single app that would handle all that for you.
I tried to stick to PayPal to manage subscriptions for a few years since it was centralized and I could change payments or cancel. Patreon seems to have taken over a lot of this--but it's even more niche.
> Big hope that fin tech will blow it up, but unfortunately start ups didn't deliver.
I just can't imagine the ROI needed to satisfy VC funding...especially without it becoming shady or predatory itself. Or, like you said, the regulations involved for a self-funded startup. I think the other aspect is that big companies aren't motivated to play ball. Yodlee is probably the biggest player and has had spottier integration as companies have added 2fa and other security measures. Very few have gone as far as adding tokens to support 3rd parties like Yodlee.
> Each bank got their app and added some obvious features there
I suspect if something does happen (I'm not particularly confident) it will be a spinoff from a bank like how Allstate and Discover Card were spinoffs of Sears or Kingsford Charcoal from Ford Motor. Do companies do this anymore?
This.
I just got screwed out of money by Couchsurfing when they started throwing a full-screen extortion prompt that prevents you from using the app or website at all so you can’t even delete your account until you cough up the dough.
They are using their own payment processing system. If they used the standard In-App Purchases, Apple could have given me a refund on the spot and hopefully booted them off the store for this bait and switch tactic.
Apple has always refunded me without question and I am willing to bet that most complaints about the App Store are from those entities that Apple protects users from.
I can do it for my emails, why not for my payment systems?
Only downside is that it's the banks that has to do the integration. I can't really figure out how they deal with the actual unsubscribing bit. The subscriptions people are most likely to want to cancel has to be those who with the worst unsubscribe process.
Sure a company can fight governments in court, if that option is available, but if it isn't or if that approach runs out, that's the end of the line. At the end of the day it's the governments and laws that need to change.
That's not what they criticize.
They criticize Apple because Apple positioned itself to be the sole actor capable of enforcing such a bad laws. That they do it, surprised nobody.
In this case, if they were not capable of destroying Telegram on iOS platform, their request would have no teeth and even the governments would not ask Apple to do it in the first place.
Several banks and credit cards offer FICO score information. The information is likely there for you, but you may have to accept some data sharing terms and conditions in order to access it.
https://www.chase.com/personal/credit-cards/chase-credit-jou...
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit-cards/features-ben...
https://www.wellsfargo.com/goals-credit/smarter-credit/credi...
https://www.bankofamerica.com/credit-cards/free-fico-credit-...
Brace for impact: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ronshevlin/2020/11/30/google-pl...
SAME. Somewhere deep in my comment history here, I tell the story of trying to cancel NYT, and needing to do it three times, because I kept getting charged. Ughhhhh.
Sadly, this is reality. It is very hard to prioritize in most places living on thin margins.
Which is another way of saying "I believe Apple should either not operate in certain countries, or should try to operate in those countries in defiance of the laws of those countries."
The beef is primarily with the government. Companies are stuck in the middle -- either operate in compliance with local laws (even if they believe those laws are wrong) or don't operate there at all (since the third option of operating in contravention of local laws doesn't usually last long, and has painful consequences).
It would be interesting to know what the people who live in the countries think -- would they prefer not to have Apple products (or any other company's products) unavailable to them?
What IS it about Apple that makes a certain class of tech geek feel like they have to dislike them in such a public and performative way?
That is the only way forward for a company so used to growth. pressure on its current customers is only going up to buy new services and pay more for the old ones. Old strategies that new tools and a device that is with you 24/7 bring to new abusive levels.
Assuming that's accurate, then I'm not sure what else one would expect them to do—not do something that gets them banned, then have their case thrown out immediately because they can't (say) demonstrate damages? Did they have any other realistic options besides just shutting up and putting up with the situation (which they have been doing this whole time)?
This is obviously false because there are other antitrust cases against Apple pending.
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/29/21493096/epic-apple-antit...
Apple has always had an unusual and often unhealthy relationship with their customers, which has garnished Apple fans with labels such as "Cult of Mac members" - Ch.3 through 5 of this satirical book actually analyzes why that is: https://github.com/jasoneckert/CultOfMac
The convenience comes at a cost.
But you continue to repeat this outright lie about Apple receiving your travel history.
There is no evidence for it, and this has been repeatedly pointed out to you.
We know if you opt in to certain services they send an anonymized location.
That’s all we know. The part about your travel history being sent is 100% made up by you.
"Censorship: Apple manages a global set of App Stores and cooperates with law enforcement in each jurisdiction in which it operates. ..."
Okay. We agree. What's the fix?
--
This censorship food fight is at least two problems.
#1 Which rule of law applies to international companies?
This is foreign policy. Just like trade agreements, treaties.
USA flagged corporations like Google, Apple, Facebook need a federal solution. Just like shipping, banking, and so forth. These corporations cannot act unilaterally, nor should they be expected to.
I have no idea what an international treaty covering speech and privacy would look like. Please share any and all ideas.
#2 Need for fair and impartial court system, legitimate enforcement.
FAANGs cannot be governments onto themselves. If my app gets rejected, there must be a separate fair and impartial court system to hear my appeal and adjudicate. If an impersonator takes my profile, I need legitimate enforcement to restore my property rights. If a FAANG closes my accounts, I must have the right to sue for damages.
--
Again: Enough complaining about unfair, arbitrary behavior. We get it.
Start proposing solutions.
That removes a lot of profit from their %30 cut although, so they are directly incentivized to prevent that from happening
U.S. congresswoman calls out Nike, Apple and Coca-Cola for lobbying against Uighur labour bills
Jennifer Wexton says companies are publicly condemning forced labour and privately trying to water down bills
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday...
The companies principally who are lobbying ... to have changes to your bills, are Apple, Nike, Coca-Cola [and] the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. What are they trying to do? What changes do they want to make to your laws?
Well, I don't know, because they haven't come to me to try to make changes to my piece of legislation, but the word is that they're trying to water down some of the enforcement provisions while publicly proclaiming that they are very much against and condemning forced labour. They're going behind the scenes and trying to change the law.
If they're against it, if they say that this is not in their interest, then why would they want to change your bills?
Because it's going to impact their supply chains and make it harder for them to profit off of this forced labour.
Which means that they're using the forced labour?
If they're not using it, it wouldn't be a problem. But, you know, it appears that they are using it. And if they are auditing their supply chains the way they're supposed to, this legislation wouldn't be an issue.
> According to a document viewed by The New York Times, Apple’s suggested edits to the bill included extending some deadlines for compliance, releasing certain information about supply chains to congressional committees rather than to the public, and requiring Chinese entities to be “designated by the United States government” as helping to surveil or detain Muslim minority groups in Xinjiang.
It’s definitely suspicious that lobbying is being done in secret, but I can’t think of many cases where any lobbying is done in the open.
[0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/29/business/economy/nike-coc...
It's actually quite simple: let things run their course. When the iPhone becomes too lousy, don't buy another iPhone. When the Apple Watch gets broken, don't buy another Apple Watch. When the laptop won't work, get something else.
Step by step you realise all the Apple gear you have is just broken or old stuff.
My Xiaomi phone is nowhere near the iPhone but it does provide 95% at 20% prices. The smart band is no Apple Watch but it was $20.
The Lenovo is no head turner but it is 16 threads at 30% the price and the display is decent.
Just as Apple evolved so did the rest of the world.
Part 1: Software and Services https://hardware.substack.com/p/falling-out-of-love-with-app...
Part 1.5: macOS Privacy Scandal and App Store Policy https://hardware.substack.com/p/falling-out-of-love-with-app...
Part 2: Hardware and Accessories https://hardware.substack.com/p/falling-out-of-love-with-app...
I could imagine Apple eventually moving its supply chain out of China, but it seems unlikely that they would be willing to be blocked from China's marketplace as Google services are. I wonder where Pixel phones and Chromebooks are manufactured, and where their components are sourced?
I would also like to see Apple refuse to cooperate with authoritarian governments, but I don't see that happening sadly.
We just bought a new MacBook Air with the M1 and my wife will use it until it dies so if it’s anything like our other Apple laptops could be 7 years or so.
My keyboard is pristine on the 2013 and after only 6 months of my 2019 they're already wearing away. I think it's to make it feel old and worn so I'll buy another.
I wonder how do these people sleep at night knowing what they are supporting under the mask of company. What will their children think? "I'm so proud that my dad/mom contributed to a company which silently supported oppressive and genocidal government's and helped make the world a worse place to live for the people".
But let's go and buy iPhones and Macs and let them know we fully support their actions.
Then, of course, there are also the real bastards, those without conscience, who couldn't care less. They also don't care about American lives, or even their friends or family for that matter. The dumb ones end up in jail and the smart bastards end up running a company.
The rest of us just goes along with what everybody else does, we are too busy anyway to really reflect on our behavior. Need to buy more presents for the holidays!
That's trying to make a cultural war of broadly accepted, democratic values. It got nothing to do with progressive politics.
If you want to go full libertarian and demand Apple to give freedom to all these medieval hate platforms, you'll have to allow IS and the Al Qaidas of this world their jihadism videos too.
That's true, but it doesn't mean your beef is only with the governments, in exactly the same way that IBM's collusion during WWII can't be pinned solely on the German government. They can choose not to do business in that country, or to be as subversive as they can until they get kicked out. Not doing so is a choice.
And that choice has implications for the company in other countries, when they become dependent on the countries they do business in, which then start making demands of the company's behavior globally.
Same with South Africa and IBM during apartheid.
Because what Apple is doing is not immoral or unethical but completely standard business practice. Every company who runs a marketplace sets its terms and distorts competition to benefit them.
In this case the author et al are arguing that Apple should be regulated differently and forced to operate a "level playing field" marketplace.
It seems highly unlikely that oppressive governments would be compelled to stop being such if Apple decided to withdraw from their countries’ markets. Yes, it is profitable to allow and tax Apple’s sales, but by my reckoning not nearly enough to pursue through a fundamental shift in political climate. (Yes, some citizens will wonder what happened, but considering Apple’s minor market share and domestic media’s capability to spin the story in favour of the leading party, public opinion would hardly be a factor either.)
To allude to an essay I read recently, a withdrawal in this context would be somewhat akin to Apple acting like Star Trek Federation (first do no harm, avoid mistakes at all costs), while remaining engaged, preserving the opportunity to enact a positive change laterally through non-obvious implications of attractive technology with superior security, would be them acting more like Culture.
Allow the iPhone to be fully unlocked, which makes it possible to install any software.
Then, Apple isn't in the position to apply the censorship to begin with, and it can both allow for a way to install these apps, and follow local rules.
It's not some issue that everyone else has to contend with. You can buy a Pixel or an LG in China and install anything you want on it. It's only Apple that has this issue.
There isn't a disclaimer in the world that would make this worth it. If someone bricks their phone with a dodgy app after "fully unlocking", they WILL be going after Apple, not the app developer.
I consider the locked nature of Apple devices a feature and an useful at that.
This has also been my experience. I know people with whom I just avoid talking about Apple. Personally I just accept that Apple is their religion (some of them have Apple bumper stickers) and that religion is something deeply personal.
Love and hate are also pretty similar emotions. I find both the people who love Apple and hate Apple to be...odd. I really don't understand either. It's a company, either use their products or don't.
This is where the hate comes from: It is frequently not a choice that one is able make, to not use their products. "You're at work, you must use $this." Is one of thousands of examples where your preference is made utterly irrelevant.
Also this is where the love comes from.
When forced to use something else and you hate it because your dislike of it is supercharged by that coercion, and you would much prefer to use this other product you might decide you love this other product and even evangelise it to increase your chance of being able to exercise your preference.
The idea that we use choose our use of, and knowledge of, operating systems by our own free will is a little fanciful. X billion smart phone users and 99+% of them freely choose 1 of 2. "It's your choice" doesn't make sense as soon as you look at it from that perspective. At best, exercising your preference comes with a non-trivial cost. At worst, you have no choice.
If it were easy to decide to use something else, something different whenever you felt like it the evangilism and ire would be more like it is for fast-food chains or clothing manufacturers. ie A little more fringe than we're seeing in computing.
Civilizations have evolved, but humans still be humans ;)
I don't see that it has much to do with religion though. It's only silly because of the specifics of what a corporation is - a somewhat amoral body of capital, very roughly speaking - but it's not always silly to be attached to an institution. There's nothing religious about supporting the Against Malaria Foundation, or the EFF, or (here in the UK) the National Health Service.
I'm sad about the latter because we apparently lost the word to simply express this profound emotion without context.
It's not healthy.
Samsung broadcast their phone events every year. As do Google. Microsoft and Sony are very happy to get on stage to tell you about their new consoles. Tesla have got a new car to tell you about too.
Surely you can see why some people might be interested?
That doesn't seem like a fair thing to expect from a consumer technology company.
Well in this case some of the reasons seem to be anticompetitive behaviour.
Tech geeks like to use their general purpose machines where they have a choice to pick their preferred tools and programs rather than feel like they're being pushed to get trapped in a walled garden of everything [company x] that comes to exist by said company exploiting monopsonies and leveraging it's platform control to slowly increase it's clout and push out competitors.
Yes the same can apply to Microsoft or the like in other/similar cases.
All that said, after building a Linux machine for development and general client work, I consider Macs the best option out there. Everything from being able to copy 2FA codes from my phone and pasting on my computer, to colored tags and smart folders in Finder make my work easier. Also, Bluetooth is just a breeze under macOS.
Ask yourself the reverse too while you're at it:
> What IS it about Apple that makes a certain class of tech geek feel like they have to like them in such a public and performative way?
In either case, I agree with you people generally have strong feelings about Apple, relative to other companies. The existence of one side brings out the other more (compared to a baseline where more people have no opinion or are neutral).
xCloud and Stadia have been trying to get iOS apps setup and Apple keeps stopping the apps. Apple does not have their own cloud gaming platform. They have been hypocritical about what apps and behavior they do or don't allow on their iOS platform.
Cloud gaming is just one recent example, is this behavior not worth of antitrust?
Apple did indeed do that before they had guidelines that could accommodate this new streaming app distribution model. But now they do.[1]
These companies can choose other platforms if the iOS platform experience doesn't meet their needs, OR choose to support an iOS-compatible web distribution experience.[2]
[1] "Apple’s new App Store guidelines carve out loopholes for xCloud, Stadia, and other apps that Apple had blocked": https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/11/21432695/apple-new-app-st...
[2] "Microsoft is bringing xCloud to iOS via the web": https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/8/21508706/microsoft-xcloud...
Most of my personal usage concerns are around the software and content areas where the user types and use cases Apple tends to prioritize aren't a good fit for my needs. For example, the focus in iOS on content consumption and app-snacking vs flexible content authoring and application depth (speaking-broadly here, as there are certainly notable counter-examples).
From a meta-perspective, as a long-time software-centric serial entrepreneur, I feel the long-term, net impacts on the market of Apple's app and content business models is, at-best, mixed for third-party developers. It can be excellent for very large developers with established brands and/or customer bases as well as the single-digit percentage of app developers that score a mega-hit. It can also be a good deal for small part-time devs that just want to get started quickly and don't necessarily need to count on consistent long-term revenue to make a house payment or employee payroll.
The app store model introduced a different set of trade-offs for developers because Apple retains certain significant value components for themselves such as the direct customer relationship, finely-grained control of distribution, some promotion avenues, margins and available business models. They also force certain requirements on developers. I agree that some of these requirements are also net benefits for users (eg privacy, compatibility, etc). However, they are also differentiators for Apple's offerings and enablers of Apple's extraordinary business model success.
Unlike some others, I don't believe Apple is guilty of being a monopoly (as defined by regulatory agencies) and don't see Apple's strategy as even especially predatory or deceptive. Sure, it's boldly aggressive and perhaps lopsided in Apple's favor, at least as compared to the Wintel proposition before it. But it's not fundamentally immoral, unethical or illegal. Certainly, the net effects and trade-offs of the app store value proposition to developers (and users) should be well-understood by now. If it's not a good fit, developers (or customers) should evaluate alternatives and respond appropriately depending on their preferences, context, requirements and priorities.
Finally, I think the difference between my viewpoint and that of Apple's biggest fans or harshest critics is more a matter of subjective value-judgements and perspective than objective right vs wrong. For example, I'm probably influenced by personally benefiting from valuation increases based on having durable customer relationships and diverse distribution channels.
you can read stories throughout the history of HN and see where a company was being heralded for what they were doing only to be criticized later on for the same or similar.
We will never have a world where every company is equally successful and rarely does one company stay at the top for very long. Apple has been at the top of the "their" game for a relatively short amount of time considering how long they have been around. Same with other companies
I guess you haven't been around for the past 20-30 years? They're part of a culture war that they helped create surrounding Mac vs PC, iOS vs Android.
Steve Jobs even created these types of wars in-house. (e.g. the new Mac team vs everybody else - see The Pirates of Silicon Valley) Business is war.
People choose sides and they must defend their choice out of pride. It's like Ford vs Chevy.
Beyond that - Apple is very much against putting general computing freedom in the hands of users especially in iOS but also definitely in macOS. Lots of people hate a tyrant and don't want to work with them and will try to convince people who don't care about that to join them. And of course there are people who disagree.
So that's basically where you get all the anti/pro Apple argumentation.
During these discussions a lot of people on HN have come forward and expressed their support for Apple’s walled garden. They like that Apple keeps malware out. Should Epic win and the iPhone be fixed wide open, that could change the situation dramatically.
Of course, I think Epic would be happy if they won a special exemption for their own marketplace but with the status quo remaining for everyone else.
After Belarus, I thought Apple would have learned it's lesson and might loosen it's so-called "security" a bit and allow 3rd party apps/app stores on their phones, but nope; they went full steam ahead into their M1 chips with forced code signing in ARM, demonstrating that they learned nothing.
Apple positioning itself as the sole proprietor of what can and cannot run on their machines will only get worse as censorship becomes normalized.
See Open Banking, that's taken many years to implement but we are starting to reap the rewards.
Is there a "ahhhh this is what it's for" moment out there yet?
Handling periodical billings on my credit cards is probably a pain, I'd have to go through all those services and update them. It would be nice if VISA or MasterCard would do that for me. Luckily all those services send me mail when my credit card expires and I get the new one.
Most of these problems exist because the one place we trust to manage our resources never pivoted on these things. In fact most banks are barely crawling out of the dark ages.
The other option is to use a different virtual credit card for each subscription and just cancel the number when needed.
Eg "If we're massively successful in building/buying the water distribution network in $city why hamstring us?" Is an argument that holds no water.
There's a decreasing long-run average total cost curve for systems software. Which is why microsoft dominated the desktop for so long and why there are only 2 viable phone operating systems - where the veondors and controllers of those operating systems use their massive market power to compete in how much abuse of the users they can dole out.
I realise trying to explain conflict of interest and market power abuse to fans of a company that literally tax the revenue of anyone selling software on their phones and tablets, then destroy success by competing with it unfairly abusing that platform control, is doomed. But it remains a very strong economic argument based on the technical defintion of market failure accross the spectrum of economics as I studied it late last century, from Friedman to Keynes.
As ever, anything that contains "...with a computer" prevents most adults from engaging the critical thought region of their brain. [1]
[1] I'm really happy to have people disagree with me on specifics if they can explain why this thing "..with a computer" is different and needs to be treated differently in law and policy to the same thing, contstructed with thousands of people, filing cabinets, paper and old-school dial-up telephones. Imagine how you would provide the service with the latter. What policy is appropriate? What law is appropriate? When should that law be enforced? Then apply just that to the same system with a bunch of servers and software.
If that "same system - computerless" analysis and case was made each time, we'd have much more sensible policy and policy discussion. I can dream, right?
I wrote this with a computer. :s
No it isn't a counterargument unless you think it's success is solely the consequence of it's anticompetitive market practices...in which case yes it's definitely at fault for it's own success.
>so what exactly is the reason that Apple can't try to convert its platform into a conduit for services revenue?
They can charge high rates by virtue of having created a monopsony in what's essentially a duopoly. This is bad for the consumer. This is bad for competition. This is bad for capitalism.
It's entrenched enough and able enough to extract this way that it's value soared to more than the GDP of a host of countries including Italy, Brazil, Canada and Russia and still there's plenty licking their boot because their product is good.
If a water utility country delivers the freshest and well filtered water to your home if it does so at ridiculous rates because it pushes legislature in it's favour and stomps on the competition using it's clout then that's still a shit state of affair
The fact that there's an alternative option in a duopoly rolling with these high rates protecting both from being called out and split up doesn't matter much. Especially if they only deliver sparkling water which you happen to dislike. Looking back it's a bad analogy because these companies would do a whole host more than just water and interconnect their services.
Without either of those, your comment is just noise.
Oh I see, you're the one asking the question - Pfft so, since you don't know the answer yourself I'd love to hear how you know that my answer is incorrect. I've only been around computer culture since the 70s when Apple was born... what could I possibly know?
Just because there’s healthy criticism doesn’t mean it’s some negative malevolent argument. Most criticism of Apple is activist focused. Most gushing about Apple is consumerist focused.
People are actively trying to move off closed platforms. So what?
Prohibiting anti-censorship apps and content-based censorship of apps at the behest of undemocratic governments is not immoral or unethical?
> Every company who runs a marketplace sets its terms and distorts competition to benefit them.
Not every company monopolizes the distribution of a third party product to an identifiable discrete set of customers.
> In this case the author et al are arguing that Apple should be regulated differently and forced to operate a "level playing field" marketplace.
That would be a valid way to remove the moral issue by taking the ability to impose censorship out of the corporation's hands.
If you can do a shuffling run, punctuated by awkward hops around a stage while screaming, "Eeeeeeeeeeeeee!" to applause from a huge crowd at a corporate event, then you've got some devoted fanatics.
Apple fanbois are annoying, but Apple haters are equally annoying. The idea that any sane person could like Apple for reasons other than being sheep never crosses their mind.
That's a really weird assertion.
Nerds as a tribe are typically not willing to let factually incorrect statements pass without refutation, but if we do that re: Apple, it's because we're insecure about my tech choices? I mean, seriously?
I did see some Reddit thread about someone creating an iOS port but saying that it lacked all the functionality of the Android app.
(Source: I’ve been on the executive team at startups with products sold in retail stores)
And same thing with the U.S.A. today! How do you think that this war-mongering country will be seen a few decades from now? My guess is that it will be seen in the same light as the British Empire of a century ago. True, they had very nice things "inside", but they were totally callous on the countries that they controlled for economical interests (e.g., India, South Africa).
It's perfectly possible to allow arbitrary third-party software without exposing the device to a risk of bricking.
I would say "fanatic". Of course the word "fan" is derived from "fanatic", but perhaps the fact that "fan" is a shorter word implies less zeal than the longer word.
Visit some investor forums and search for TSLA sometime. They make Apple fans look tame :)
With that said, and it may be my own bias kicking in, Apple anti-fans seem way more passionate than fans. The anti-fan cannot understand why any rational person would ever use a product from Apple.
All of the above completely pales in comparison to the best example of adult fanaticism - political affiliation.
They mostly don't openly ridicule people who run Android, Linux, or Windows. Whereas, as you suggest, there's a definite subset of people who think and are happy to say they think anyone who buys Apple products has more money than sense and has clearly been brainwashed.
It's assumed that if you prefer Apple products, it must be because you're brainwashed or ignorant. The possibility that there are rational reasons for preferring Apple and its ecosystem is rejected with no consideration.
The manager is the one with most skin in the game and should go to jail, does not mean that anyone else is free from fault. By working for a company that kept an unfair advantage they also benefited from the fraud, they should also face some of the consequences.
I can't pay on any of the charging points I use, not on iOS or Android.
Even if I could, it'd most likely use the roaming price of $FUCKTON, so no thanks.
Only if social dynamics evaluate as a zero sum game. Which is the exception, not the rule.
Law making is really a modelling exercise. The proof of the validity of a model is measured via the success of it's implementation. The extent of that success is a function of the ability of an authority to enforce those rules.
At surface level, centralizing mass media into a handful of channels - whether it's public broadcasting or market dominance through a single private actor - seems like a boon for authoritarians when it comes to censorship. But what censorship really accomplishes is just stripping away the convenience with which undesirable information is spread. It doesn't necessarily strip the wholesale spread of information.
History is rife with examples. In the 20th century there were clandestine newspapers (French newspaper La Libération for example) and pamphlets, or listening in on the BBC via longwave. In modern times, there's sneakernets, streetnets (Cuba, even North Korea), datacasting,... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_circumvent...)
When a big corporation doesn't play ball and seizes operating in a country, it only moves the needle in one direction, but never quite entirely to the end.
It's a common enough point of view. I disagree with it myself. There's plenty to discuss about just how evil it has to be before you can't live with it anymore. Those are interesting discussion. Binary discussions based on purity are usually pretty dull.
Yep they do. They don't do it they don't get paid. They decide to do it, they get paid. They can count the difference in revenue and profit from those two alternatives. It is literally one of the things they are getting paid to do. Can you live with doing that for monetary profit? You can certainly make arguments both ways.
This is not "sanctions against a population." Sanctions against a population is something more like blockading medical aid to Iraq through law for years prior to the invasion. Now Iran. It's certainly worthwhile weighing up the ethics of that, and there are dead bodies to count and trade off that decision, which obviously makes it a pretty unpleasant thing to consider, but that isn't what is under discussion here.
If apple refuse to do it, someone else will, to be sure. That's not a reason that should influence whether you can live with doing it or whether it's something you refuse.
> Epic's attorneys acknowledged that the company breached its agreement with Apple but claimed Epic was simply refusing to comply with an anti-competitive contract, and that forcing a legal battle was part of Epic's plan.
You might disagree about whether it should've been part of their plan (evidently their lawyers disagree, and I have yet to see either your article or yourself mention an alternative approach), but either way, everything I've seen is consistent with their intention having been to force this into court than to covertly breach the contract.
The first argument is about standing. The second argument is about, apparently, an injunction to remain available during the course of the litigation. They're two separate issues.
OP's statement, "Epic had to do this to be able to legally challenge Apple in court" is worthless if they are not a lawyer and don't have some reputable source.
The article is written by a layman and includes a contextless quote from the judge which doesn't appear relevant to the point you're trying to make.
> OP's statement, "Epic had to do this to be able to legally challenge Apple in court" is worthless if they are not a lawyer and don't have some reputable source.
Accusing someone of not being a lawyer is not a counterargument, it's an ad hominem attack. If they're right, they're right. If they're wrong, where's your evidence?
[0]: https://download.bluemail.me/docs/01869-Blix-Amended-Complai... (PDF)
I happily censor everything the government demands. Yet I do not get paid anything. Hence your logic is proven to be false. Specifically you have made a fallacy of omission.
Your perspective on what a sanction is indeed is too narrow to be very relevant. But you didn't answer, anyway. I guess you're against them as long as you can make the choice easy for yourself? But now stop dancing around and consider sanctions which restrict other forms of trade besides medical supplies.
AppleID (which you have stipulated) + timestamp (obvious) + client IP (necessary for a TCP/UDP connection) on inbound App Store requests is travel history, because client IP = city. It's quite simple.
Each time you open the App Store not on a VPN, Apple knows which city that Apple ID holder is in.
Additionally, the App Store sends the device serial number to Apple (per Apple's disclosures), so the device serial number is associated with your Apple ID.
The device maintains a persistent, serial-number-linked connection to Apple at all times (APNS) for receiving push notifications. This device-serial linked connection involves Apple seeing the client IP (and thus city) as well. Because Apple has linked the device serial with your Apple ID via the App Store, the persistent, 24/7 APNS connection allows Apple to track which client IP (and thus city) is in use by which AppleID, in real-time, whenever the device is on and connected.
I would appreciate it if you stop systematically responding negatively to so many of my comments. It feels like a pattern of harassment based on my identity to me, rather than you sincerely engaging with what I have to say.
You have no proof that Apple is recording people’s travel history, only speculation about how they could be.
It’s a lie to say they are.
Perhaps that you do not realize that storing client IP logs is standard practice for all internet services, and indeed without special and custom engineering effort is necessary for preventing brute-force attempts and denial of service as well as other types of abuse.
Any system as vast and reliable as APNS or the App Store is logging client IPs (and is thus logging approximate client location).
The data is absolutely being stored.
I have not seen sneak be repeatedly pointed out that his statement is incorrect. That is a lie. He is completely correct, which is why he has never been corrected.
I claimed your location wasn’t sent, because it isn’t. An anonymous location is being sent.
You claim it’s possible they could de-anonymize the location.
That may or not be true.
Claiming that they are de-anonymizing the data when you know you have no evidence to support the claim, is a lie.
If you or he can prove Apple is de-anonymizing location data to track people’s individual travel history, I will retract this statement and apologize.
You cannot, because there is no proof.
Note that Apple's location privacy is worse than every other platform with AGPS that I haye used, from Google, Amazon, Mozilla, and Microsoft. Each one correctly classifies this as a privacy setting and allows the user to opt out. Every single one also "anonymizes" their data collection for AGPS, but none of them are facile enough to say that there isn't a reduction in privacy for having it enabled.
That's also why you're not getting a new phone from your carrier every two years like most Americans seems to do.
I can tell you that my almost impossible to resign contract from Vodafone got quickly sorted out with their help.
Navigating your rights as a citizen and/or consumer shouldn't be a thing. It should be an automatic action.
Now if we are discussing that their support should be gratis, ok that is another matter.
Don't many operators offer mobile phone contracts that are effectively a subsidy for the low up-front cost of the device[0] ?
"Apple iPhone 12 for £49.99 upfront cost" plus you pay the rest of the cost of the phone over the life of the contract.
[0] https://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/pay-monthly.html
The internet already provides a nearly free distribution medium for software application - so even paying a 5% markup to an unnecessary middleman is just outrageous. The app store only exists so that Apple (and others) can gauge even more money from developers, who ultimately pass on the cost to us customers.
Amazon or Walmart or any other online or offline super market doesn't prevent either the manufacturer to sell directly to the consumer, or me as a consumer to directly buy from the producer / manufacturer.
Apple does precisely that with its restrictive app store on ios (and soon will on the macOS too), denying the buyer the right to buy an app directly from the developer and avoid the unnecessary burden of the Apple Tax. Due to this same restriction it is also able to charge the developer an annual recurring fee, again unnecessarily raising the total cost of an application for the user.
First off, this is still simply false.
It may be technically possible that they are in fact reconstructing identifiable location history for individuals.
It’s also possible that they do what they say they are doing, which is to anonymize as early as possible and not use data for this purpose.
They could easily be keeping these logs separate, and disposing of them in a timely fashion, and not attempting to use them to analyze individual’s locations.
You are clearly technically competent enough to know that either scenario is possible (as well as many others).
Therefore you know it is not true to say that Apple is ‘recording you travel history’ in the absence of additional evidence.
> But even so, what are we supposed to do?
Vote with your wallet. Stop consuming whatever it is that comes with attached strings. Stop putting convenience above principles. Refuse to pay/subscribe/accept any terms that are clearly not in your best interest.
You don't need Big Government to do that. You don't even need to be part of a mobilized group. It's in your hands and every individual can choose for themselves. Let's take responsibility for our own actions and stop using the vices/failings of others to excuse ourselves to do the same.
Regulations are there tools that citizens have to reign in corporate behavior. 'Big government' is just a catch name for many anti regulation lobbying entities to remove power from citizens and acumulats it on corporations.
> Vote with your wallet.
Yes. And also vote with your ballots, one person one vote triumphs one dollar one vote if you want freedom.
This is completely reductionist, and completely uninformed.
Banks, as an easy counter example to your worldview, don't have armies of third party regulators, corporate compliance staff, and auditors because they hate regulation. They love big government. It acts as a barrier to entry for them, because they already have the 10,000 person department ready to modify procedures and legal documents to comply with the next set of regulations while the little banks drown. Regulators frequently dine with top bank executives, but I can assure you they aren't dining with the citizenry or your local regional bank.
Every amount of extra regulation just increases tyranny. It makes the American dream more untenable. I want people to succeed and not rely on giant mega corporations for their well being and wealth generation. You can rightly claim that I'm an anti-regulation lobbying entity in this regard, if you wish.
This is... impossible. Ignoring the amount of time I would sink into researching every eventuality for a given service (how do you find out what the unsubscribe flow is for a site before you subscribe to it?). Some "services" have their hooks in just about everything. Good luck avoiding the likes of Google Analytics or ReCaptcha if you want to use the internet.
I avoid Google Analytics all the time. It's called NoScript. c: It actually has no effect on site functionality, either.
ReCaptcha's a different story though. :c
It might be "impossible" to do everything at once, but there is nothing stopping you from taking steps in that direction, and the more people taking those steps with you the stronger the market forces will force the companies to provide the things that you do want.
Not signing up to the NYT is a choice. Not buying from Apple and all their locked down systems is a choice. Not signing up for any subscription service that has DRM is a choice. Having an ad-blocker to fight surveillance capitalism is a choice. Adopting and promoting alternatives to every "free" offering from Google is a choice, even if they are of inferior quality. Putting your money where your mouth is and supporting the development of better alternatives for whatever comes from FAANG is also a choice. If you are doing all of that, then maybe you will be entitled to complain. But I am sure you have a lot of veggies to eat before that.
In a democracy, the government derives power from us, the people. In a good and functioning democracy there exists other democratic institutions to ensure that the government cannot abuse the powers granted to them.
"Vote with your wallet" is a disingenuous argument were all the corporates work together like a cartel towards a particular business model that maximises profit for them to the detriment of us consumers. Regulations that bind all business to certain rules and standard also benefit the businesses as it creates a level playing field for them too. (But obviously large corporates at the top don't want a level playing field).
This is kinda recursive - a "good and functioning" democracy is the one in which such institutions exist, so one where they don't is not a "good" one - but they are no less real for that. Worse yet, a "good" one can turn into other kinds - and the more centralized its governance, the more powerful it is, the faster that can happen.
This is the idealistic view. In the real world we have people in power, with their own personal interests, with institutions that are ever more distant from the people and with ever less consequences to face when they do wrong.
The one exception is perhaps Switzerland, and this would be more due to how local governments and cantons prevail over national leaders. The institutions are small and limited in reach. Aside from them, every model (US, the EU, China, Russian) relies on over-centralization and ever-expanding reach of the institutions and the consequential subversion of said institutions to the favor of interest groups.
So, unless you are Swiss I really don't have any reason to believe you actually have any power over the government, and I really don't believe you should be defending to give them even more power and attributions.
> maximises profit to the detriment of consumers
Last I checked, no one forced me to buy anything from Apple. I don't think closed systems are beneficial for me, so I don't buy them. No one forced me to buy anything from Google, either. No one forced me to buy a car or to live in an expensive metro area or even check any trendy bar with overpriced drinks. No one forced me to buy home appliances that can I not repair.
"Well, where I live there is only one internet provider, so I am forced to use it". No, you are not. It's just that the inconvenience of not having internet at home outweighs your willingness to get your community and put together an alternative. Also, more likely than not, the reason that there is no alternative is due to REGULATIONS that lobbyists from big telco managed to pass so that they have an advantage.
To truly believe that "regulations creates a level-playing field" is beyond naive. It's borderline harmful to you and for society at large.
If necessary yes. Your forefathers fought hard to earn you your democratic and associated rights that you have all taken for granted. And that's why its slow erosion has only now made you start to feel a bit uncomfortable. So yes, you too need to start asserting for your rights.
And no, to begin with you don't need to quit your job and take to the streets.
Start by writing letters to the political parties of your country. Start by making your local politicians aware that you feel the government isn't concerned about your rights as a consumer. Escalate and urge others in your network to do the same. And move on from there. Democracy is designed to slow down political changes because abrupt political changes also has a lot of chaos. Initially you will only have to spend maybe an hour or two a week to do the above. As more and more people support you, and you all work together, this may increase to 5-10 hours a week depending on how much you are willing to commit yourself. Once a political party latches on to your issue, it then becomes a lot easier - join it or offer issue-based support to them. (Yes, often it is all quite boring and just takes patience and dedication. That's democracy - it is often boring participating in it, but still worth it).
But you can be sure that if everyone puts all their eggs in Apple's (or more generally FAANG's) basket, their only interest is and will be their corporate profit, not your or content creators' rights.
San Francisco, CA
You are to ask precicely this question and think up variations of it.
I was just pondering how easy we dedicate our lives to a thing in contrast with how unpopular dying for it is. It doesn't seem both can be right at the same time?
My feeling living in Germany is that consumer protection rights goes as far as the "right" for some bureaucrat to keep their job. It's a constant feeling they create the problem so that they can sell the solution and get people to be oh-so-thankful for it.
In US, as far as I am aware it isn't even possible to have such kind of help, and those organizations that do try to help, just go through the same endless court sessions as hiring a random lawyer would do, plus having to pay them way beyond the almost symbolic "Gebühren" that you pay here.
So while the situation isn't perfect, it could be much worse.
Sneak said that they were recording people’s travel history, which is a lie.
You haven’t provided any such proof. All you have done is equate logging ip addresses with recording people’s travel history, which is false.
The best you can do is suggest that they might have the possibility of using geoIP to deduce locations from logs whose storage duration you do not know.
That simply isn’t the same thing.
If sneak were to have said something like this:
“Apple could be lying to us, and may in fact be using geoIP to deduce people’s location from IP addresses in their logs. I have no proof of this, but it is technically feasible, and I don’t trust them not to be doing it.”
I would not say they were lying. These are all true statements.
But to say “Apple is recoding your travel history” when really all you have is speculation about what is technically possible, is a lie.
It's more a bare minimum. If you're inclined to moan about how awful something is, but you're still paying $5/month for it, it kinda bounds how awful it must be in practice. If it's that bad, stop paying them, as a bare minimum, not as an exclusive remedy.
(Exceptions for monopolies like local internet or other situation where there are considerations strongly forcing you into a particular contract. Some exception for oligarchic situations where everyone has the bad terms... but only some. If it didn't even exist 20 years ago, you don't "need" it.)
Exactly what I said it was
> It is not a "bitter criticism" of you or your beliefs.
Which I never said it was, I rather said you were replying to me with your vitriol for Apple.
That is an important point. Not only realisations are needed, regulations need to be enforced if we expect the banking system to work.
Another lie. They are recording your location. You already agreed to that except last time, you said it was "anonymized." Then you said that it was recorded but not queried. Now you're saying they're not recording it at all? Keep your facts straight.
The worst part is that you're paying for this abuse from Apple and then justifying it to others. Nobody else is falling for it.
‘You already agreed to that except last time, you said it was "anonymized."’
If this is true you’ll be able to find a link to where I agree that Apple records your location.
As to me saying it’s anonymized. It’s not just me. Apple states that the location data is anonymized. I’m basing my statement on their published statements.
Do you claim that Apple is lying?
You work with the reality you live in, but you do strive for idealism. If you don't, you stagnate as the society rots.
The reality today is that in some democracies the balance of power has shifted from the people to the corporates. And that's unacceptable. Thinking that this is what's the best achievable in your democracy is just nihilistic and pessimistic attitude. Sitting silent is not an option. Regulation is one of the tools through which the government restores the balance between the corporates and the people. And it is possible to strike the right balance between the greed of the corporates and the need of the people.
The crux of the matter is that neither Amazon or Walmart or any other online or offline supermarket restricts anyone from buying a product directly from the producer / manufacture or from elsewhere.
Apple does precisely that with its app store on ios (and soon will on macOS too). By depriving us the freedom of buying from the developer (or others) directly, Apple not only violates our privacy but also raises the cost of an app for everyone (by unnecessarily charging the developer an annual recurring fee and by charging a commission on sale).
That’s not true either. Just because you aren’t away of it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Trust me, the retail world has lots of dark corners that you learn when you have to deal with it directly.
You call for increased regulations as a way to control corporations and "more power to the Government" but don't acknowledge the number of times that the elites have subverted the institutions for their own benefit. Sorry for the bluntness, but that is either malice or stupidity.
You completely ignored my argument that is important to look at the scale and reach of the democratic institution you're dealing with. It's all good if you say that you are working for democracy. It is not okay of your idea of democracy is to have some federal bureaucrat responsible in making decisions that affect so many people at once and does not take into account the desires and peculiarities of the people in the local level. I don't want Federal Government being responsible for and the arbiter of matters that are in the realm of the city council, much like I don't want the city council to step into things that should be in the realm of my neighbors association. The scale of power and reach matters. Do you understand that?
It seems your idea of "fighting for democracy" is in advocating more power and authority in an single entity and more central planning. History is filled with examples where centralization of power has always led to tyranny and abuse. Road to hell paved with good intentions and all...
So, before you start advocating for regulations that can affect so many people and have so many catastrophic unintended consequences, consider acting on the change on the smallest possible level: you. Once you do it and can honestly tell that the change was good, then you go a little bit higher in your circle and advocate for them to adopt the policies you did. Go bottom-up, not top-down. Not only is the most realistic way to affect change, it is the most ethical one.
No, that isn't my idea at all - decentralisation and independence of institutions matter in a democracy. And I consider regulatory bodies as a NECESSARY institution of democracy that strive to balance the needs of the executive, the corporates and the people (consumers). Democracy is all about balancing everyone's needs and corporates too have a role, just as the consumers do too.
As a citizen of a country that was once enslaved by one of the largest corporate of its time (East India Company)^, to me you are the ignorant one here if you think that regulation has no role in a democracy.
^(The British East India Company — the Company that Owned a Nation (or Two) - http://www.victorianweb.org/history/empire/india/eic.html ).
Which regulations do you think would've stopped East India from becoming what it did, and what democratic institutions do you think would have effectively restricted their unchecked expansion and abuse of power?
Democracy is about balancing the needs of everyone, and that includes the corporate too. Regulatory bodies should have the necessary independence to hold regular discussions with the stakeholders (the executive, the corporates and the people) so that appropriate regulations can be drafted and more importantly fairly enforced.
It is in the nature of corporate to vie for power with the sovereign and thus in a democracy it is very much necessary to ensure that the corporate never gain gain an upper hand to do so. Regulations can definitely help with this. But ultimately it all about finding the right balance as hurting the corporates too is not the aim and in the best interest of a nation.
It is very abstract. You constantly talk about "the need of regulations" but don't get to specifics. You hope that by hiding in complexity under some abstract body things will work out. In reality, those "regulatory bodies with necessary independence to balance the needs of everyone" will be undeniably influenced by interests groups and shaped by the very people you want to avoid having too much power. Worse still, they get to be put in this position of power indirectly and out of reach from people to express their will through vote or elections.
No matter how much you talk, at the end of the day we all should be asking ourselves what are the things that we want to "regulate" and make it the systems as clear as possible to avoid regulatory traps.
Here is my proposal for a system that can control the abuse of power by corporate entities and at the same time avoid this trap of believing that "regulations" are magic dust that makes anything better:
1. Put a hard cap on the headcount of a corporation. Any company that gets past a certain size (say a few hundred employees) has to be split up by the end of the fiscal year.
2. No single person can be a board member or manager at more than one corporation. No subsidiaries shenanigans, no shell corporations, no "holdings". People and companies can have investments anywhere they want, but these should grant them any executive control over the board.
3. Governments must never bail out a company. If no company is "too big to fail", there are no systemic risk and bail-outs are not required.
That is it. By limiting corporations by size, you avoid any single entity to dominate the space, you promote healthy competition, you avoid systemic risks, you avoid rampant inequality and corruption, we don't get lost in a sea of abstractions and we avoid the hell of regulatory capture. We might lose the "benefit" of economies of scale and we will never see a "Unicorn-style startup" and we will never be talking about "FAANG" again, but I think that would be a good thing overall.