The Social Life of Forests

105 points by 0DHm2CxO7Lb3 5 years ago | 21 comments

noobly 5 years ago |

Another thing that trips me up about clear cutting is the amount of organic matter that's removed from the forest that would otherwise return to the soil; soil nutrition has to be dropping like crazy in land that has been clear cut for several generations.

Also, I hope we figure out how to fruit mycorhizzal species sooner rather than later :-)

andygcook 5 years ago |

If you prefer video, this Ted Talk from Suzanne Simard does a good job of summarizing her team’s discoveries about how trees communicate.

https://www.ted.com/talks/suzanne_simard_how_trees_talk_to_e...

cmsefton 5 years ago | |

In Sheldrake's book, Engtangled Life, if I remember correctly, he suggests that it may be better not to think of it as trees communicating, but rather mycorrhizal networks passing on the information to other trees because it's in their interest to do so (the article posted alludes to this). It's similar to how mycorrhizal networks will transfer chemicals and nutrients between trees, because it's to their benefit to keep as many trees alive as possible.

One thing I do remember that was quite fascinating, is that the exchange of nutrients and chemicals is almost like a trading network: mycorrhizal fungi will send stuff it produces that trees need to places where the reward (payment) will be highest. An example would be, if the mycorrhizal fungi has phosphorous to "trade" for carbon, if there is a tree that will "pay" less (perhaps because it doesn't need the phosphorous, or it needs carbon for itself), the mycorrhizal fungi would rather divert that phosphorus to another tree that would give a greater return of carbon.

There's a description of this "trading network" here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6584331/

Apologies if I described it wrong, I read the book a while ago.

filoeleven 5 years ago | | |

Yeah, it’s wild stuff. The linked Radiolab episode below discusses (among other fascinating things) how fungi are responding to climate change by choosing to trade more with trees that are better suited to the new climate; I’m guessing that they get a “better deal” from those trees. Fungi farm forests.

I don’t remember if it’s in that episode or if I read it somewhere else, but fungi will also help parent trees to preferentially provide nutrients to their offspring over other trees of the same species. Perhaps that uses the same mechanism: “this tree tastes a lot like that one, let’s pool their resources.”

The more I learn about forests, the more I see them as superorganisms. I guess that’s what an ecosystem is; it’s just getting harder and harder for me to differentiate a cell vs a plant vs an animal vs an ecosystem in many ways—scale being the main difference, and complexity quite close to it. But that perceived complexity could be an artifact of my perspective as a conscious participant at the scale in which I live, and my familiarity with “what behaviors matter to humans and organisms more like humans.”

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/from-...

animal_spirits 5 years ago | |

I recently watched the film Fantastic Fungi and I think she makes an appearance in it. I was really fascinated when they mention how trees can use mycelium to transfer nutrients to other trees, but wished they could go more in depth on how that works. This Ted talk is a great supplement to the research

agumonkey 5 years ago | |

I find her ted talks way too anthropomorphic to be honest.

Now that nature is a complex web of mutually beneficial interactions, why not (and I'd root for this actually).

If she could remove the emotional side of things it would help I believe.

iamwpj 5 years ago | | |

I think the mere concept of this level of communication sounds very intimate -- very emotional. I would stop focusing on whether or not the science is presented in a way you expect it to be.

19g 5 years ago | |

This is also a good book on the topic:

https://www.npr.org/books/titles/488266595/the-hidden-life-o...

chrisweekly 5 years ago |

Anyone who finds trees interesting should read Richard Powers's amazing, Pulitzer-winning book "The Overstory"

http://www.richardpowers.net/the-overstory/

Loughla 5 years ago | |

I would also listen to his interview on NPR. The way he talks about trees. I just love it. It's everything that I have always felt inside, but he did the research to prove it.

I knew being a tree hugger would make sense one day.

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/19/602903697/novelist-richard-po...

Or this one

https://www.ttbook.org/interview/writing-inner-life-trees

laurex 5 years ago | |

I just finished this yesterday (excellent) and now I'm wondering... So much is prescient, but is anyone building the video game that will save us ecologically? My fingers are crossed.

thehealthycoder 5 years ago | |

Can +1 that, read that book recently on a friend's recommendation. The way he describes how the trees feel is so impressive

mymythisisthis 5 years ago |

Mushroom once grew to 8m tall, 440million years ago. I wish someone would try to bring them back, at least one.

Radiation-fed mushrooms were found inside Chernobyl.

Mushrooms make up the bulk of a forest, you just can't see them.

animal_spirits 5 years ago | |

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiosynthesis_(metabolism)

ibraheemdev 5 years ago |

Reading The Hidden Life of Trees by Peter Wohlleben was pretty mindblowing. I encourage anyone who found this article interesting to check it out as well.

jvanderbot 5 years ago |

I had read that forests form mega-organisms, but hearing details about the actual exchange of resources facilitated by fungal networks was really fascinating.

phgn 5 years ago |

There also was a free audiobook version of this article on The Daily recently, that I enjoyed hearing:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/podcasts/the-daily/tree-c...

iamwpj 5 years ago |

Another book recommend related to this subject: Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. I'm 100p in and vibing. I really recommend it!

arnoldthepimp 5 years ago | |

A third book in a similar vein is Lab Girl by Hope Jahren. It's a bit of her own story mixed in with useful info, but you can feel the love she has for the subject.