Using Apple Silicon (M1) as a cloud engineer, two months in

Using Apple Silicon (M1) as a cloud engineer, two months in(blog.earthly.dev)

101 points by vladaionescu 5 years ago | 96 comments

smoldesu 5 years ago |

Honestly, I'm starting to understand Louis Rossman's indifference towards these computers. In one of his most recent streams, someone asked him what he thought about the M1 Macs, and he simply responded "it's faster than the last computer Apple made", which summed up a lot of how I feel about it too. I'm saying this as my M1 Macbook Air sits on a shelf collecting dust a few feet away from me, which is definitely not the fate I wanted for it.

I bought the Macbook Air with the intention of using it to replace my aging desktop rig, but was pretty surprised to find that it couldn't drive both of my monitors. Now I had to choose between my 1440p monitor which flickered violently when attached to the Macbook, or my 1080p panel which had a much less disturbing pink line in the bottom half of the screen. After a few hours of troubleshooting, I plugged my desktop in and promised that I'd use the Macbook Air to replace my Thinkpad. At that point though, the value proposition of the computer was so diminished that I couldn't really justify using it. I can't use my OS of choice on it, I can't use my software of choice on it, I can't upgrade or fix anything on it, and I can't trust the swap to not shred the SSD.

Am I missing something here? Time and time again I hear people say "you're not the target audience", and I'm getting the impression they're right.

least 5 years ago | |

> I bought the Macbook Air with the intention of using it to replace my aging desktop rig, but was pretty surprised to find that it couldn't drive both of my monitors.

> I can't use my OS of choice on it, I can't use my software of choice on it, I can't upgrade or fix anything on it, and I can't trust the swap to not shred the SSD.

Minimal due diligence would probably have helped you not waste 1000+ dollars on a laptop that pretty apparently wasn't going to meet your needs.

You can't will the laptop into running linux/windows or x86_64 software. You can't will it into having better connectivity or supporting more than one display. These are things that you knew or should have known before purchasing it.

I think the value in a macbook air is that it's relatively powerful for its form factor, has excellent battery life, and is completely silent due to being fanless. A lot of the attractiveness of the product goes away if you _must_ run linux/windows or if you're using it primarily docked.

volta83 5 years ago | | |

+1 I'm in a similar situation as the op, but I didn't buy a new macbook air due to most of the reasons mentioned.

Everybody knew that Linux support was going to be broken on day 1 and require multiple months of work to get better.

TBH I was surprised at the lack of multi-monitor support, this is something that one just expects "it just works" on 2021. Only discovered it reading the comments here, completely missed it when watching the Keynote and looking at Apple's website.

rattray 5 years ago | | |

Speaking as another sad owner of a Macbook Air (pre-M1), I do wish Apple made it more clear that they can't drive monitors well, but I agree with your overall sentiment – OP probably would have been much, much happier with a higher-spec'd M1 MBP (though given the price and their OS preference, maybe still not happy enough).

smoldesu 5 years ago | | |

I agree, and they were big mistakes on my behalf. I'm not particularly hostile towards Apple, and I exclusively used iPhones for the first half of the last decade. My assumption was that Apple would have these issues ironed out, especially on a product they were comfortable calling "Pro".

marricks 5 years ago | |

Apple launch M1 for their smallest cheapest computers first, if you want drive multiple screens you are not their target audience.

I think it's understandable devs are confused a bit, it's a flashy new thing and we want to try it, but it's not for power users. Another confusing aspect, at least to me, is it's stand out feature is battery life! We're all stuck at home though, so when is a charger more than 4 feet away from me?

Since they have an apparently amazing thermal headroom and battery life for their entry level machines I think it's safe to hope that whatever powers their 16" MBP will be a barn buster and meet your multiscreen needs.

AtlasBarfed 5 years ago | | |

Apple is "Premium" computing products company, and further advertises in the content creation space for artists, etc.

Not properly driving monitors is a major fail, if that's true. It also ignores the fact early adopters will be technical and have a "basic" technical need like that.

Apple almost always supports the highest-bandwidth ports, precisely to drive large high-resolution monitors.

I've been thinking about M1, but this comment just nixed it. Maybe when it's out of beta.

smoldesu 5 years ago | | |

I can only hope. It would also be nice to see proper Linux support, but I guess that's wishful thinking from Apple.

abc_lisper 5 years ago | |

Just as a counterpoint, I got a M1 just because, but actually love it as a dev machine. It is the first laptop I have that is absolutely silent, and the only one that doesn't try to burn my lap. If it is hotter than my skin below, I can't tell.

serverholic 5 years ago | |

Honest question, what made you think that a macbook air would replace a desktop computer?

smoldesu 5 years ago | | |

I used a work-provided Thinkpad P51 that did replace my desktop, and it was a dream to use alongside the docking station. It's no longer in my possession though, and the specs on that machine were looking a little dated. I bought the M1 Air because it was cheap and supposedly replaced some people's desktops. Even still I don't think I took a loss on it. In a few months I could probably sell it for a cool $800 and not lose terribly much of my investment.

tyingq 5 years ago | | |

It sounds like he just wanted it to drive external monitors without issues.

AmVess 5 years ago | | |

My M1 MBA is faster than my 4790K desktop, and by a decent margin. It is fast enough that I'd be able to have it as a main computer if I needed it to be. My main PC is an 8 core Ryzen.

folkrav 5 years ago | | |

A decently fast laptop can definitely replace an older desktop computer without issue. When my old gaming rig died in 2017, I bought a laptop for work and plugged it in my monitors. Apart from graphics, the laptop was measurably faster on all accounts.

folkrav 5 years ago | |

I'm getting the feeling the first gen M1's was about dipping their toes, just launching the line and getting people ready for the transition. There are still rough edges, very popular pieces of software still haven't been ported over, and they definitely have some limitations (you're not the first I hear talk about issues with multiple external monitors, IIRC). I'm fairly certain that first generation was more about getting the I-don't-mind-tinkering early adopter types on board, then following up with more "complete" products next time around.

brokenmachine 5 years ago | | |

And I can presume that Apple mentioned all of that in the keynote?? They did, right?

mrtksn 5 years ago | |

Sound like a Desktop Linux experience. I know, very controversial to say it here but if you think about it, through the years using desktop Linux meant that you will have a lot of cool stuff alongside with a dealbreaker like a monitor not working properly or a flashdrive causing kernel error.

How long it has been since M1 introduction? 4 months?

I recall the story about Microsoft buying all the available software out there and testing it one by one on the new version of windows and creating workarounds for specific versions of specific software. On the linux side of the things this never happened.

I doubt that Apple is doing it too but it looks like the developers are doing it instead. Probably most of the stuff will iron out within the "2 years of transition period" which we are at about %15.

The stuff that doesn't iron out will simply get obsolete and replaced. Why? Because Apple means "I have better things to do than dealing with this gadget and I am prepared to pay for if you can help me not deal with it".

Whatever software or hardware is broken is some competitors opportunity. Oh, and Rossman has his own agenda. That's why he doesn't care, he will care if there's a scandal or something.

folkrav 5 years ago | | |

> I recall the story about Microsoft buying all the available software out there and testing it one by one on the new version of windows and creating workarounds for specific versions of specific software. On the linux side of the things this never happened.

Considering 90% of Linux contributors are paid by Red Hat/IBM/Intel/Linaro/SUSE/Samsung and some I'm forgetting, not that surprising that the focus isn't particularly on the Linux desktop. As for the desktop, AFAIK the only desktop environment with any sort corporate backing is GNOME, so I don't even know how "Linux" could even buy all software and test it out.

> Rossman

Well of course he has his own agenda - which he quite literally spells out pretty clearly every time he has a chance to do so, IMHO. We all have an agenda, what's important is interest and disclosure.

addaon 5 years ago | |

A computer is a device for running software. A particular implementation of a computer can be so flawed that it's unpleasant to use, regardless of the software; but it can never be so perfect that it overcomes that it doesn't run the software you want to run. If your preferred OS and software don't run on the system, you're not going to be happy with it -- I think that's what people mean when they say you're not the target audience. When people say that Apple builds high quality systems (which I agree with), I interpret that as meaning that the systems flaws, such as they are, do not interfere significantly with the overall goal of running the desired software.

smoldesu 5 years ago | | |

I suppose that's a pretty level-headed way of looking at it. My frustrations with MacOS mostly come down to death by a thousand papercuts. Perhaps my biggest mistake was assuming that Homebrew could replace a package manager like apt or pacman, which I've quickly come to realize is not the case. After that, I realized that my mistake was trying to make my Mac as Linux-esque as possible.

hctaw 5 years ago | |

I wouldn't have expected an Apple device of the last generation to fit your needs, let alone the new ones. Why did you buy the computer?

grecy 5 years ago | |

> "it's faster than the last computer Apple made"

While true, I don't think that alone tells the whole story. It's worth adding that it gets about double the battery life of the last computer Apple made. It's about $1000 less than the last computer Apple made and it's so much quieter it can't really be compared.

When judged on the metrics that really matter to end users, it's a significant improvement from "the last computer Apple made".

smoldesu 5 years ago | | |

Well, I think that's the whole point of the remark. If we're going to continue to use Apple as a benchmark for Apple, then yes, they will improve year-over-year. The rhetoric behind the sentiment is that we should give up trying to compare Apple to x because their users will never hold them to those standards. If Apple releases a perfect laptop next year with replaceable components, an SD card slot and a magic smartcard reader, the community will parade and say "I told you so" rather than wondering why they let Apple get away with it for so long in the first place.

rapind 5 years ago | |

You're not alone. There's a support thread with 31 pages (that continues to grow) about external display issues affecting all M1 macs (Mac Mini too... which requires an external display!). https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252174979?page=31

jmisavage 5 years ago | |

There are some known issues involving ultra widescreen monitors and color issues that are suppose to be fixed in the next release.

This may help you get multiple monitors running https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/24/m1-macs-able-to-run-six...

lostmsu 5 years ago | |

Exactly same for me.

I am looking with wolf's eyes at the M1 and A14X performance. Desperately want it... in my Android phone, where I can install Firefox with uBlock Origin, and in my Windows laptop, that has a touchscreen and has no problems connecting external displays.

brokenmachine 5 years ago | | |

Me too. I will never buy a Mac, but I'm hoping the good things about M1 will influence the industry for PCs that I would actually pay for.

A fanless laptop would be great.

sys_64738 5 years ago | |

Get a Display Link USB graphics dongle for USB port. This works seriously well.

smoldesu 5 years ago | | |

I'll look into it, is it capable of driving 1440p@144hz?

rvz 5 years ago | |

> I can't use my OS of choice on it, I can't use my software of choice on it, I can't upgrade or fix anything on it, and I can't trust the swap to not shred the SSD.

It is just as locked in like an iPhone.

When at least one component of that computer is ruined, as you said it can't be simply swapped out and it time for a trip to the Apple Store if you're using it for the long term. If the SSD in the M1 is dead for some reason, you might as well buy the same model again but with your data lost.

> Am I missing something here? Time and time again I hear people say "you're not the target audience", and I'm getting the impression they're right.

It's true. It's for those who really love the Apple ecosystem and don't care about computers or opening them up. Right now the early adopters are realising the limits of the first generation M1 Macs.

Are they show-stoppers? Not for some of the casual users using Slack, Zoom, Google Docs, Word, Chrome and their favourite email client and users that aren't developers or professional creators but for those working in those fields will probably run into more 'incompatible software' complaints and using unstable workarounds.

sundaeofshock 5 years ago | | |

> If the SSD in the M1 is dead for some reason, you might as well buy the same model again but with your data lost. <

Really? I would imagine that professional creators and developers would know enough to back-up their data.

yjftsjthsd-h 5 years ago | | |

> It is just as locked in like an iPhone.

Software-wise, it's a lot less locked-in than an iPhone - there aren't technical measures preventing a user from running an arbitrary OS or programs from non-Apple sources. (There is a temporary gap while people write drivers, but Apple's not stopping them, just not actively helping)

djrogers 5 years ago |

> Battery life on the M1 is really really really good - half a day of Zoom meetings + email only took 20% of my battery.

This may be the most compelling thing I've read about M1 Macs, and I've read a lot of compelling things...

woof 5 years ago | |

After using the 8GB M1 MacBook Pro, my new job gave me a 16" 32GB MacBook Pro 2,6GHz i7 - and I actually miss my M1!

Battery life and fan is rather annoying now :(

barkingcat 5 years ago |

Git going missing is likely to do with macOS updates. Since Apple moved to sealed system partition and "non-diff" os updates, each OS update comes as a unified whole package (often sized in the multiple gigs of data)

This wipes out the xcode-select installed git (because instead of "patching" the existing system, it just replaces the whole lot of it with whatever is in the archive). It leaves xcode alone (since that's in the Application folder), but any additional xcode command line tools gets wiped out by the OS update, and the system needs that reinstalled.

I ran into this with Intel based Macs running the beta 11.3 as well, so it's not necessarily an M1 issue.

kitsunesoba 5 years ago | |

I wonder if it might be time to shift the majority of package installations to user-local. Outside of things where system-level is unavoidable (e.g. kexts) are there good reasons not to?

wereHamster 5 years ago | |

I just got a M1 macbook yesterday and this annoyed me. I installed git via xcode-select, then macOS prompted me to do a OS update, which I did, and then found out that git is gone. Definitely not the most pleasant experience. Especially that after the update macOS didn't prompt me to install the commandline tools like it did the first tie I ran 'git' in the terminal. I had to find out via some googling what happened and how to fix it.

sudhirj 5 years ago |

Similar experience here. Doing Rails dev at the moment, Ruby, Go, Jetbrains all work great. Using Postgres.app which still runs on Intel under Rosetta, but works fine. There are some Postgres crashes happening intermittently, not sure if that's an emulation problem or the app. Haven't tried native ARM Postgres yet, but heard it works great.

Apps are being updated pretty quickly, and generally makes for a very snappy machine. Comparable to maxed out Corei9/32GB 16"rMBP in performance, but a bit snappier and no fans.

cageface 5 years ago | |

Unfortunately I’m getting the same Postgres crashes running the ARM version. It’s the only real downside of using this machine for Rails dev at this point.

dolni 5 years ago |

As an outsider looking in, it's hard to take this post seriously. There are biases evident, the most glaring of which is the proclamation that "all of my software 'just works'" followed by a laundry list of software for which beta versions had to be installed in order to be functional at all (including Docker).

It's frankly surprising to me how many hoops people are willing to jump through to use an Apple machine when Docker, arguably the single most important tool many developers use, is just a crappy experience on that platform (ARM or not).

M1 from a hardware perspective is neat, but I am not holding my breath that the rest of the industry is going to move towards ARM for regular old PCs. The only reason M1 is viable _at all_ is because of reasonably fast x86_64 emulation. And that requires special hardware that non-M1 platforms don't have. I suspect Apple would jealously guard against any attempt by a competitor to build something similar.

Shadonototro 5 years ago |

Same here, i'm loving my M1

To the detractors, you better ask your favorite laptop company to step up their game instead of being jealous at apple and M1 in particular

PS: i'm not talking about microsoft people, or maybe i am :D

Bonus: https://twitter.com/NovallSwift/status/1356111709602160640

brokenmachine 5 years ago | |

>instead of being jealous at apple

Believe me, I'm not jealous. It's baffling to me that anyone would buy Apple's consumer-hostile disposable crap.

Shadonototro 5 years ago | | |

disposable crap?

i own an iPhone 5 since day 1, and it still works perfectly fine today, even the battery

go ask samsung, acer or toshiba if you want to complain about "disposable crap"

tommoor 5 years ago |

Love my M1, but a heads up – if you're dependent on Postgres-based tests running inside of Docker (quite a common usecase!) the performance is completely unusable still:

https://github.com/docker/for-mac/issues/5236

We're talking a suite that normally takes 30 seconds taking 10+ minutes.

fabienpenso 5 years ago | |

My solution for such is parallels beta (m1 supported), and arm Debian Linux.

reasonabl_human 5 years ago | | |

So you primarily use a virtualized Linux install on your M1 machine for dev work? That seems really cumbersome... at that point I’d just point to a headless Linux server

drewg123 5 years ago |

I'm a kernel engineer, focusing on performance. My intel MBP died and i replaced it with an M1 about 6 weeks ago. The M1 has been very handy, since it gave me (via a Qemu VM) a local FreeBSD/arm64 native build environment just when I started looking at FreeBSD/arm64 performance.

The one issue that I have is that Intel Vtune crashes when displaying data collected on our servers.

maxekman 5 years ago |

I kept my old 13" MBP close at hand when moving over to the M1 Air. Turned out I didn't need the old MBP hardly for anything. The recent Go 1.16 in Homebrew was the final piece of the puzzle for me. Docker in preview has been really smooth, especially if sticking to ARM images (the performance alone is worth that).

wait_a_minute 5 years ago |

Great post and I have a similar experience. I’ll be buying Apple’s 16” M1X or M2 (whatever they call it) maxxed out on day 1 because I am endlessly impressed with my 13” M1 pro.

rvz 5 years ago |

> I like bleeding-edge technology, and I had to use preview versions of some software, but had no major issues in my typical workflow.

Those who are in the music production industry would say otherwise, especially those who like using Ableton Live. They got burned on the '64 bit-only' software move from Mojave to Catalina and now they are getting burned again for the hardware move to M1. Not surprised why I see them still running Mojave these days.

As for the developer software on M1, I would rather wait until it is optimised for the processor and the software ecosystem fully supports Apple Silicon before making the switch rather than wasting time finding workarounds that 'sort of work' and ends up breaking in a software update.

Until then, no thanks and no deal. (Until M1X or M2 comes out)

imbnwa 5 years ago | |

This is actually partly why I moved to Logic from Ableton. I plan on staying with Mac (I just can't do Windows unless I need Skyrim with all the f'n mods), so might as well use the software that will be highly available on it.

brokenmachine 5 years ago | | |

I don't know the numbers but Ableton would be losing a huge percentage of their market if they stopped supporting Mac. I can't imagine them doing that, ever.

God I wish they would support Linux. I understand why they don't however. I would dearly love to leave Windows but Apple is not an option.

fumar 5 years ago | |

I've been running Live 10 just fine on M1. Is there something I am missing? Push 2 works fine too. I haven't gotten around to installing 11.

spullara 5 years ago |

I had good luck with the M1 native Azul OpenJDK for my testing.

JoeMayoBot 5 years ago |

Good read for me - just bought a MacBook Pro M1. After years of working on Windows, this is my primary development machine now. Still learning and making adjustments. Doing all JavaScript/TypeScript/React work in VS Code. Using VS for Mac for .NET work, which is an adjustment, but working so far - they're working on better M1 support in the .NET 6 timeframe, which is in preview 1 right now:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/visual-studio-20...

uncledave 5 years ago |

Pretty impressive outcome after less than 6 months on the market. I’m using mine for dev work but it’s mostly as a terminal at the moment to stuff in AWS. Oh and PyCharm which works perfectly.

RantyDave 5 years ago |

I'm doing embedded development using an M1 and encountered my first arm/x86 related problem yesterday (trying to open an arm dylib from an x86 application didn't work).

Edit: VSCode Insiders build (referenced elsewhere on this page) is mad fast. Get it!

Honestly very impressed with this thing.

CapriciousCptl 5 years ago |

> An issue I ran into with the amd64 version was that I did not realize that the terminal was also an amd64 process...

Wow! That’s a huge gotcha that for some reason I didn’t even consider when I was having package issues with numpy among others.

submeta 5 years ago |

For me this sounds like way too many issues, too little time to tackle. I‘ll wait a year or two until I get an M1 based MBP. Didn‘t even install the latest macOS because I see friends having too many issues with their setup.

ksec 5 years ago |

83 Comments has no mention of M1 MacBook SSD Heavy Data Write problem.