How should I, legally, deal with a minor as a contributor?

5 points by xenoterracide 5 years ago | 8 comments

Ok, firstly, to clarify when I say minor, I mean someone under the age of majority, he appears to be of legal working age in Texas (where I am) and Massachusetts (where he is). In this case his father reached out to me regarding a sort of mentor/apprenticeship, so I know I have his approval (but do I need more? like something in writing?)

I have 2 contexts, Open Source contribution, and possibly on the startup I'm working on. For the startup, I need to ensure I don't leave some gaping loophole that screws me/the company later, so if it's not possible it would be good to know.

What sort of CYA's do I need to have in place? Yes, I'm certain I should talk to a lawyer, but I'd like to get an idea ahead of time, especially since the startup is only in prototype phase.

I asked about this on StackExchange here, but the answers weren't great and doesn't cover the startup problem https://opensource.stackexchange.com/q/11436/1060

uberman 5 years ago |

The younger the minor, the more restrictions you are going to run into.

For example, it is probably the case that a 15 year old cannot work more than 2 or 3 hours on a school day and they may not be able to work after 7pm or even sundown depending on state laws. The DOL has rather strict rules about when a minor is actually an intern vs an employee. If you are thinking of not paying this minor I would think again as the ramifications could be catastrophic.

The DOL has 6 tests. Fail one and your minor is an employee and you had better be paying them at least minimum wage. These are the ones you are likely going to run a foul of:

1) The internship, is similar to training that would be given in an educational environment

2) The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern;

3) The employer shall derive no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern, and on occasion, its operations may actually be impeded

In any case, enforcing age based job restrictions remotely is not feasible and I would thank the individual and encourage them to reach out to you when they turned 18.

xenoterracide 5 years ago | |

> In any case, enforcing age based job restrictions remotely is not feasible and I would thank the individual and encourage them to reach out to you when they turned 18.

I mean, I wouldn't consider it if I hadn't worked with his dad for 5 years. It's not like I'm actually hiring, but yeah.

I was aware of those 3 rules, and was really looking for the citation on 3 earlier. I was thinking about paying him, I can afford a few hours of minimum wage, and if I think I can't I can always stop it, but even then I'm not 100% certain what I'd need to do for that. Do I actually need to file for incorporation of some kind? at this point I'd probably just go sole proprietorship if I have to. Then I'd guess I'd need to either have him do a 1099 or W2 of which I might need to contract out to a HR company to deal with some of it, especially because of the across state lines stuff. I honestly only vaguely remember my employment around his age.

I just want to ensure I don't somehow end up with them owning half the startup if it ever goes somewhere by virtue of a later lawsuit.

DoreenMichele 5 years ago |

This might be a pertinent thing to read:

https://www.mass.gov/service-details/volunteers-and-interns

IANAL. This is not legal advice. This is me spitballing in hopes of helping you figure out where and how to get answers.

Open Source contributions may fall under volunteer work and this may be the easier thing to work with. It probably cannot be for a for profit business though. Check state laws. Talk with a lawyer.

You say his father reached out to you for a sort of mentor/apprenticeship. This might fall under the definition of interning.

Is the child homeschooled? Would the father be counting this as part of the child's educational portfolio?

If so, this might fall under interning for academic credit.

The devil is in the details. These are a few details you might explore to try to help you sort out a solution that is both legal and ethical.

Best of luck.

devenblake 5 years ago |

I'm a minor and have contributed to numerous open-source projects (nothing of particular value but contributions nonetheless). Why not just treat them as an adult? If you're interacting with them in a professional manor I can't imagine how their age could be relevant, and minors (I think) can still own and concede intellectual "property" according to US law.

bsldld 5 years ago | |

> Why not just treat them as an adult?

For some reason this made me chuckle. You indeed are a minor :D

The problem OP is facing is not that s/he is unable to treat the contributor as adult. Which probably s/he is. The problem is the law does not treat minors as adults. There are reasons for this. Minors are exploited in all sorts of ways. Infact, interns(even adult ones) are treated badly. Once I was working for a company(a world leader) in the UK. A new intern joined. Next day he goes around everyones desk in the team as starts asking if they would like tea or coffee! And everyone was telling them their preference. He came to me as asked this question. This was new to me. I asked him, is this his assigned task? Who assigned him this responsibility to bring tea/coffee to everyone at thier desk? He looked shocked and confused. I said to him that I would be happy he if rather come to me with a work related problem. He did not say a word and went to the company kitchen and bought everyone else their preferred drink! This is how interns are treated. Think what will happen to minors if there was no law.

uberman 5 years ago | |

Open source contributions are one thing (and thank you for yours). Working at/for/on behalf of a startup is completely different.

Disguising work on a startup as "open source contributions" would be fraud. The type of fraud that might lead to violations of child labor laws with hefty fines particularly since the original poster is fully aware of the status of the out of state minor making it a "willful violation".

xenoterracide 5 years ago | | |

right, but what if it is open source code? even though it's something the startup would use.

Also it's not clear to me if a minor can actually contribute to an open source project legally as they have to be able to accept a contract legally I would think.

brudgers 5 years ago |

Having a minor make unpaid contributions to benefit your startup is unethical, if that is what you are asking about.

Ordinary employment is the simplest way to have ownership of the work done on your behalf (in the US).

In terms of long term consequences, don't work with people you can't trust.

Good luck.