Apple employees push back against returning to the office in internal letter

Apple employees push back against returning to the office in internal letter(theverge.com)

66 points by y2bd 5 years ago | 18 comments

least 5 years ago |

While there are many meaningful advantages and benefits from working with other people in a common area, very little of those benefits are passed on to people who simply don’t want to be there.

Forcing people who would prefer to work from home is mostly to the benefit of those that thrive in a social environment. Extraverts that have benefited from the status quo will largely want to return to it, regardless of any particular employee’s inclinations to stay working from home.

I don’t think “leaving it up to the employee” is necessarily the best option, either. You’re creating problems potentially in either circumstance.

For a corporation as large as Apple it seems foolish to make a policy like this company-wide when it’s pretty clear that individual teams should probably make this decision as a group.

dagmx 5 years ago | |

Per the letter, that is precisely what they're asking for. It's not asking for a blanket statement to make it up to each employee, but rather to make it up acceptable for teams to have remote employees if they so choose.

Also to collect the information regarding how the lack of remote work factors in to hiring/churn to then further allow those teams to make decisions

rangoon626 5 years ago | |

I am extroverted and I never want to go back to an office again.

Yes some people need the office to socialize, but I personally have probably a few too many hobbies and probably an oversized Dunbar number. I really don't need office culture "perks" playtime.

I strongly feel that hobbies and community are the answer, not onsite white collar office work, lol.

anonaapler1 5 years ago |

I work there. This is a nice rebuttal I think. Most managers I know don’t actually care whether their directs are in office most days anyways. Personally I can’t wait to be back in office, working alone all days is very depressing and I miss the low-pressure socialization afforded by colocation. Virtual communication has improved, but offers no replacement for this IMO. This is a me thing though, and I certainly get shit done with folks working remote, I just end up knowing them way less.

sparky_ 5 years ago |

Hearing from friends in low-level management on the inside that upper management is well aware of the impending attrition, and are willing to (and expect to) eat some low amount of turnover. Will be interesting to see how far off reality is from that. I'm expecting a large turnover across the industry for inflexible companies going forward, honestly.

Infinitesimus 5 years ago | |

A large turnover is only possible of there are enough remote-friendly companies both hiring and willing to pay high salaries for all those quitting forced-commute jobs.

As long as majority of employers demand in-office presence, we don't really have a choice with this power dynamic cos we have bills to pay...

afinlayson 5 years ago |

It's hilarious how many people are religious about WFH. Like arguing you must not have a social life or you are extraverted if you need to be in the office.... Some people like the office some don't. At the end of the day if people working from home get more done, they'll be allowed to do so. But I've seen a lot of schedules slip the last year, most likely it's because of the pandemic, but maybe it's the ability to come to a space and focus. In a year if companies that remain WFH get more done, then that'll become the norm, but if people who WFH get less done, more restrictions will be added. Instead of being a zealot about it, go prove it works for you.

k-mcgrady 5 years ago | |

>> At the end of the day if people working from home get more done, they'll be allowed to do so[...] Instead of being a zealot about it, go prove it works for you.

That's not what's happening though. Apple was requiring all employees to be back three days a week. There's a reason people are getting vocal about this stuff. A lot of people hate working in the office and don't need to and this is a one time opportunity for them. It took a worldwide pandemic to finally show a lot of bosses that "it's not possible to do this job remotely" is largely bullshit. If people relent and go back against their will, it could be difficult to make the shift again.

afinlayson 5 years ago | | |

I’d bet they have data that prove people aren’t doing their job as well. Either the taking longer to do a task, having less team cohesion (aka I’m willing to work hard so my coworker doesn’t have to do it all themselves) or more leaks because secret hardware is seen by 3rd party individuals.

If wfh is better and companies like Apple aren’t adapting they’ll see it in their stock price because they aren’t as efficient as their competitors, more people will quit and we’ll see new startups doing similar things named after other fruit.

3x2 means they can test both hypothesis and will know which is better after the pandemic. So that’s a big improvement over the company when I was there. Where only those who proved themselves got to wfh (I did at times and I have friends who have been able to for years)

clpm4j 5 years ago |

I wonder how much the $5 billion sunk cost from the new(ish) office has to do with this, or if Apple is just clinging on to their original, conservative view on WFH.

matt-attack 5 years ago | |

A very small percentage of Apple employees work there. It’s primarily top brass and artsy types.

The bulk of the engineers are in unremarkable office parks around the valley.

someonehere 5 years ago | |

I spoke with an electrician after the new campus opened. He said Apple was desperate to get the campus open on time, there weren’t enough local electricians. They were able to get more from out of state to come and finish it up for a hefty price. So I’m sure part of the push is to get value out of their investment.

thefounder 5 years ago | | |

Why do they need so many electricians? Is the UFO building sinking?

mistersquid 5 years ago | |

> I wonder how much the $5 billion sunk cost from the new(ish) office has to do with this,

On whatever day of the week one cares to look, Apple’s market value crosses 2 trillion dollars. As of January this year, Apple has nearly 200 billion cash on hand. [0] I won’t even bother to cite how long it takes Apple to earn 5 billion in profit, but I’m guessing much less than the 15 months since lockdown began in Mar 2020.

In other words, 5 billion sunk cost is probably not the reason Apple brass continues to be conservative about WFH with respect to their corporate peers.

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/apple-q1-cash-hoard-heres-ho...

rsj_hn 5 years ago | | |

From what I heard, the new spaceship offers basically zero privacy and is distracting to work in, so I think it has a lot to do with the hesitancy of people returning to work at Apple, and thus is responsible for management's drive to get everyone back into the glass box.

dagmx 5 years ago | |

Apple has a ton of offices around the bay area. some are leased, others are owned. Even if a significant number of employees were to hypothetically leave, I'm sure they'd just reduce the leases and move people into the owned offices.

browningstreet 5 years ago | |

I can’t imagine that the campus would be a ghost town with some percentage of attrition… they’d hire in and the terms of office attendance would grow stronger.

nevermindiguess 5 years ago |