Ask HN: Building a startup while working elsewhere and parenting?

43 points by lamida 4 years ago | 50 comments

Founding a startup is often associated with grinding, long hours and low pay (for a possible high compensation in the exit). I want to start a startup but I feel that I am bit too late because now I am 35 years old software engineer and has a family with 1 toddler and another child is coming in couple of weeks.

Is it possible to build a good startup part time (while still working in another company for full time)? Is there any founders out there which still can start and grow their business successfully while raising up children? Should I wait once having enough life saving and once my children a bit older so that I will be more ready for grinding?

This is the only link related to this topic in HN[1].

[1][https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10019268](https://news....

jenshk 4 years ago |

Founder in my 40s here. "1 toddler and another child is coming" - Then you want to work one and a half or maybe two jobs? Unless your wife is Superwoman, sounds like a divorce to me. Wait until your kids are in school and more independent. In the next few years, your wife and kids need you. There are plenty of successful founders in their 40s. In fact the average age of the successful founder is 44. Plenty of time! Focus on your wife and kids or you will regret it.

fsvavsd 4 years ago | |

Here is a counter point, do startup if you think you cannot handle kids.

I have two under 3 years old kids. Working from home during pandemic, helping my wife and managing two kids brought me to the edge of my sanity. The worst thing is tantrums, high pitched screams would leave me physically exhausted within a few minutes. I started to drink more often.

I didn't think I could continue to work from home with kids in the house. I was ready to quit and figured it won't look so bad to have a gap on your resume during pandemic. But then instead I got second part-time job as a junior developer.

This gave me real excuse to avoid managing kids during work hours, and then later night. I spend 5-8pm with my kids and I have more energy and it is much higher quality time with them. After putting them to sleep and watching some TV with wife, I go back to work. I wake up more refreshed than when I was going to bed early. Pure coding is almost meditative for me, so maybe that's why I feel more rested.

Also extra money allowed us to hire babysitter who can assist my wife during the day and we still have extra money after babysitter's expenses. We also got cleaners, started to send laundry out, ordered in more food, enrolled kids in various day camps or classes.

But this is not really apples to apples comparison, startups are a lot harder than a job as a junior developer. And if your startup is not bringing in cash, you may not have enough of extra money to hire help, which may strain your relationship.

joshxyz 4 years ago | | |

> Also extra money allowed us to hire babysitter who can assist my wife during the day and we still have extra money after babysitter's expenses. We also got cleaners, started to send laundry out, ordered in more food, enrolled kids in various day camps or classes.

300 IQ move here, bravo sir, well done. That also alleviates workload from your partner for sure.

natalyarostova 4 years ago | | |

I cannot believe this works for you, hahaha, but I’m glad it does. Nice!!

jonplackett 4 years ago | |

This.

You have to stop and ask yourself what it’s all for. What is the point of anything? For me kids filled in a large missing piece of the puzzle I couldn’t tell was missing.

Your startup can happen any time. Kids happens once, maybe twice and you are going to want to be there.

They’ll be in school so soon and then you’ll at least have a clear time in the day.

The more time you spend with your kids the more you’ll like it - and it will probably inspire a ton of ideas!

Misery is doing one thing while thinking about another

math-dev 4 years ago | | |

> Misery is doing one thing while thinking about another.

That is a great quote!

luxurytent 4 years ago | |

Elevating this. The youngest years are the hardest for the parents and also the most formative for the little ones. Take the time, work somewhere with good parental leave (and take it!), and become a founder a few years later. Or stay a founder and iterate at a pace that's balanced.

For the kids, for your health, for your wife :)

danieltrembath 4 years ago | |

Small software business owner/developer echoing the others here.

I'm 40+ and have a child under 4. When they were born I cut my work back to 1/3 so that I could be a home dad.

It's the best decision I ever made and well worth the (real) financial pain. I can't convey in this text box how fulfilling being a dad has been. This is a time and joy you can never get back. Your kid will be better off from time they spent with you than what the money could have bought.

Raising a kid is a never ending exhausting slog. Two parents that can do everything means you can both get some mental respite. I'm sure our relationship would be worse now if I'd been away working every day. You get to know a lot of other parents and the tension provider/parent puts on relationships is real.

There are downsides. With my wife and I both working part time (nights, naps, 2 days of kinder) we are going backwards financially, but we will survive until school when I'll go back full time. I'm extremely grateful to work in an occupation where that's even possible.

jonahbenton 4 years ago | |

Founder in 50s. Echoing others. Give all your energy to your family now. It will be hard with ideas and founder energy and motivation to read again that book you have read to your toddler a dozen times. Meet that challenge, find the love to do it, again and again and again. Your kids will be better humans, you will have a better marriage, and when the time is right, you will be a better founder. (Hint: do NOT optimize for grinding).

Best wishes.

nostrademons 4 years ago |

Former founder and current parent here. My startup died because my kids were born.

I certainly couldn't do it, and I had a lot of advantages that most people don't (family help nearby, effectively unlimited runway). I tried for a couple years, but I just found I was so much slower as a father. There's no such thing as focus time with young kids in the house, you can't pull all-nighters to bang a feature out in a couple days, and then you lose a lot to context-switching overhead. And it's hard to get high-performers to work with you as a new parent, both because you have so much less time and flexibility to seek them out, and because they also know that your kids will (should?) come before the startup and "Why make someone a priority when you're just an option for them?"

Ended up going back to a big company known for work/life balance and generous paternity leave, where my efforts don't make a material difference to the success of the company. If there's effectively zero chance of success, it's not worth sacrificing time with my family to beat my head against the odds.

zemvpferreira 4 years ago |

I just finished reading The Cult of We. If the author is to be believed, Adam Neumann managed to build WeWork into a $50 Billion unicorn while fathering 5 children and being perpetually drunk and/or high. And having no real talents beyond incredible salesmanship and incredible obliviousness.

So yeah, it's possible. But is it right for you? We can't say without knowing more.

wanderingmind 4 years ago | |

Being an incredible salesman is the most important trait to be a founder. You can easily start a company if you can sell your vision to a technically skilled person and to the angel fund. You can never succeed no matter how technically strong you are or how good the product is, if you cannot sell it. The sheer arrogance of technical people waving off selling as a lesser skill is getting boring even to me and I'm not a sales person.

kenrose 4 years ago | | |

As a founder, you have to get comfortable with doing sales. It’s how you get, you know, money and revenue.

But you don’t have to be an “incredible” salesperson.

Be able to explain the value prop of your product. Know your customer and know how you help them. Become good at having them know this too.

But that’s just rote sales and marketing. Nothing “incredible” about it.

But yes, if you are technical and hold “sales” as some kind of contemptuous skill, you won’t do well.

zemvpferreira 4 years ago | | |

Personally I'd put luck and resiliency at the top but I can't say you're wrong/that I'd disagree that much - WeWork is exactly proof of that, at least in times when money is cheap.

But WeWork is also proof that unless there's some substance to go with the selling the story won't end well.

jl2718 4 years ago | |

I didn’t read it, but, if true, this seems possible once you understand the broader personality disease associated with alcoholism. These people are ‘extreme takers’, and they are like magnets for codependents who pride themselves on their contributions. Then the taker puts this relationship into overdrive by creating a never ending string of disasters for the codependent employees to clean up. They will exhaust themselves trying keep him away by making it work without him.

I have a lot more to say about how this works and why the codependents keep falling for it, but that is the gist of how it works. Sounds like a great book to look into for a CoDA study.

softwaredoug 4 years ago |

Not a startup, but on the birth of my second kid I committed to writing a technical book. About as hard as having a kid in my experience :) I averaged 60 hour weeks for about 1.5 years.

What made us not go insane was:

My wife was stay at home.

My wife supported what I was doing and bought in to the impact it could have on my career.

Grandparents nearby that regularly came to help out with the kids. My parents were very supportive (again they knew it would help my career)

I would wake up early on weekends and spend time with the kids so my wife could sleep in and have a break. This gave me 1-1 time with them. Usually I’d take them out of the house somewhere fun.

My main work wasn’t too intense. Indeed they even gave me some time to work on the book.

I’d say it’s doable if your full time job is laid back, your wife is fully onboard, and you have lots of extended family support. Even better if you can get your main job to invest or supportive!

lamida 4 years ago | |

Writing book is my another bucket list beside building a startup. Speaking about scope, writing book is still hard but seems more doable than startup.

I remember have skim your book, although I didn't read every pages. But as any good technical book and as you said, not everyone are having sufficient energy to average 60 hour weeks for 1.5 years. Put aside they are also a parent. :)

burlesona 4 years ago |

I’m a parent of three kids (all under 7), and I’m also the Cofounder of a startup that is doing quite well so far (though we are still early).

I would say that it all depends on funding. I have bootstrapped before, and I could never do that now. Perhaps more accurately, I would not want to do that now.

Having raised funds for this start up, my salary is a lot lower than it was working in enterprise, but it’s enough to support me and my family.

I have two Cofounders to share the load. One is also a parent, one isn’t. They pull a lot of weight, but none of us have to work ourselves to death. Having a good founding team is crucial.

My wife is at home full-time - Chief of Domestic Operations - and that’s what makes it work. Because she enjoys that role and I can feed us all, things work out.

With that support structure (funds, founding team, supportive spouse), it’s very doable. Still hard work, but the very enjoyable good kind of hard work.

stncls 4 years ago | |

> My wife is at home full-time - Chief of Domestic Operations - and that’s what makes it work.

I feel that this is very important and makes a huge difference. I think most families still have a "primary" caregiver (by that I mean it's not 50%-50%), even if not stay-at-home. Not only being that parent is incredibly time consuming [1], but it also comes with a draining mental load (raising kids is an endless grind of having to make decisions in the dark).

Grandparents and other community support can also be very beneficial.

[1] At some point during partial lockdowns, I clocked 70+ hours per week spent with my children. Meanwhile my partner was not slacking off averaging 40+ hours. That's with two full-time jobs, only two children, and still some daycare access (child care was prioritized in my area and was shut down only during the direst of the pandemic).

langfo 4 years ago |

Life will continue to get busier. Once they are over 5 and sports activities and creative activities start you'll be driving around for training, games etc. At least by then you will be enjoying uninterrupted sleep again. As a 30 year old software developer, I had a startup going great just a few years prior to kids and into the early years of my 3 children. I found the technologies I learnt and used on the startup project allowed me to utilize those skills in my job and be more efficient and a more valued worker. I did have another partner who grew the business and I just focused on the tech. I would suggest to just start and see what happens. I know many 40+ dads who have ventured down the path of an MBA which to me is serious commitment compared to what I was doing with a software side project!

lamida 4 years ago | |

I want to be more present during children golden period time. I want to nurture their curiosity, problem solving and creativity, so that they can be better than me in their careers and life. Of course I want to continue to be present as they grow older too. But as they older the attention span needed should be not as much as before.

Yeah I think I should start with simple software side project and taking it slow but steady.

dwd 4 years ago | | |

The upside to doing your own thing is that you set your own schedule and define your own "office hours".

This could mean that you can be there at the times you need to "be there" and work around that: like in the evenings when the children are in bed, and/or early morning if that's more your thing.

smackeyacky 4 years ago |

I did it in my late 40s, I don't think age is an impediment but finances might be. I have 3 children, two adult aged, one at high school and one still semi-dependent at University. Lucky my wife has a well paying job and is tolerating my low pay while we bumble along. Not sure I'm really waiting for the "high compensation at exit" though, more just really wanted to scratch an itch and do something for myself.

lamida 4 years ago | |

Nice point. I also understand age factor is a myth in determining business success, as presented by Ali Tamaseb in his book Super Founders. About finance, I am thinking to continue working hard and as employee while saving aggressively, have family time and start some idea experimentation part-time. Once the children older, then only will start something more focusely.

nickjj 4 years ago |

What if you switched to a part time job that let you take care of the bills without dipping into any retirement funds?

That would give you the option to work 20-25 hours a week for your main part time job and then another 20 hours a week for your start up idea while still working ~40 hours a week.

Personally I would say it's well worth spending a couple of years trying that out instead of going down the path of 12+ hour work days with a family.

sfifs 4 years ago |

My wife is a startup co-founder and she started up when our daughter was three. They were bootstrapped initially and now have raised a couple of rounds in 5 years. Our daughter has grown up into a little person with a very kind character and promising developing talents. So I'd say very doable amd some enablers are: 1. One partner should have a steady sufficient income to keep head above water with sufficient buffer for unexpected expenses. I've had friends who tried it single income and they had to pack it in 2. You need to keep a schedule where you'll be there for some sufficient time in the day for the child or the child will start missing the parent and act out. In my wife's case, she usually takes three quarters of an hour break when our daughter comes home from school and also puts her to sleep at night during school days. During weekends, she usually spends Saturday morning exclusively with our daughter. During vacation weekdays, she spends a couple of morning hours (time zone benefits)

So I'd say go for it! Best of Luck!

ezekg 4 years ago |

I'm 30, I have a wife, a toddler and another child on the way as well. I'm not sure I would classify my solo bootstrapped business as a "startup", but bootstrapping a business with a family is definitely doable. I ran my business on the side for years before reaching the point where I could do it full-time. I work 7am–6pm most days, and never work on weekends unless things "break." I try my best to prioritize my family above my work, even if that doesn't always happen.

You don't have to "grind" at the expense of your family (i.e. what you're working for!) like the influencers continually tout.

Was it hard? Absolutely. Is it still hard? Absolutely. But I absolutely think it's doable. You're not late.

lxe 4 years ago | |

7am–6pm sounds a bit like "grind"

ezekg 4 years ago | | |

With a 2 hour lunch with the family, not really. But to each their own. :)

c0nfused 4 years ago | |

I agree. I did a security start up after child #1 and it was hard but not impossible.

I would recommend testing heavily as there will be inevitable interruptions around toddlers and infants and it's easy to half finish something and forget you did it. Or worse rip it out but not replace it with the refactored version.

jimshi 4 years ago |

I started my startup when I was 36. Had a four year old and a one year old. To your question - yes it’s possible but how you accomplish it will depend a lot on your situation. For me, I was fortunate enough to have a supporting spouse that had a great job. Our living costs were low enough that she could support our family (albeit with very few luxuries). She did this for a few years while we bootstrapped, and eventually we were successful enough that she ended joining the startup full-time. Five years and 13 employees later we’ve been acquired and are looking forward to the next leg of our professional journey together. This is one of the most difficult things I’ve ever done but also the most rewarding. Good luck to you!

codingdave 4 years ago |

It is possible, but you need to carve your own path. If you do the full startup grind, you won't have time. If you run your kids through the grind of various after school activities and classes, you won't have the time. But if you think carefully about what you really need, the project needs, and the kids need... you can still meet all the needs.

Set aside time for all of the above. When it is time to spend time with kids, really spend time with them instead of chauffeuring them around to have other people spend time with them. Do things with your family, and then sit down and focus on the project.

I'm not saying it will be easy. It will be harder on all fronts, and it probably is not the answer for most people. But it can be done.

lionheart 4 years ago |

It's definitely possible, but you have to do it in a sustainable way and not focus on the grind.

I'm 34, have a 3 year old at home and my current startup hit product-market fit at pretty much the same time as my son was born.

I work about 40 hours a week, keep a sane and flexible schedule, pay myself a market salary and try to keep the business mostly profitable.

It also helped to have investors that were 100% on-board with all of this and are supportive of running a calm company: https://calmfund.com/

Aeolun 4 years ago |

If you can spend a good 9-10 hours a day on travel and office time, then presumably you can spend that time running your own business.

I would agree with starting on the side though, regardless of how hard that may be. The stress of suddenly being without a job, or worse, having the pressure on you to make your company work while also dealing with the stress of raising a baby does not sound great to me.

Source: currently trying this, and while the side job often has to give, it’s always at the expense of more important things, and my livelihood doesn’t depend on it.

tzm 4 years ago |

Yes, totally possible to build a startup part-time. 35 is a great age (experience / energy), but insignificant towards specific success. Your personal situation is more of an indicator. Frankly, I recommend saving money while focusing on your network and/or personal brand. Work towards building a startup: quality people, innovative product, efficient process and cheap capital.

speedgoose 4 years ago |

I don't know how parenting will not take all of your energy. From the comments, it seems that people who say you can do it remove the parenting or the first job from equation. I don't know about your family, but I personally value more parenting than building a startup. You can do the startup later.

garmaine 4 years ago |

I did a startup with a toddler and a newborn when we got funded. Both the company and my marriage still exist, so I guess that's evidence that it is possible.

But personally, I would not recommend it. Find a job you can spend lots of time at home or otherwise spending quality time with your new family. They're only young once, and this is not time you can get back later.

jeztek 4 years ago |

It's not easy but it's definitely possible, especially if you can stack the deck in your favor -- line up childcare and appropriately configure your company's work culture.

I juggled a day job and side-startup while my child was a toddler. My wife and parents picked the slack on the nights where I had to push towards a hard deadline and I leaned heavily on my team so that I could be present for family time. The company was profitable and we successfully sold it to a private party.

For my current startup, I was very up front with my co-founder about making sure I was around to do school drop-offs and pick-ups. We're fully remote so there's no commute and we predominantly work asynchronously to avoid meetings. I mostly work during school hours and pick up again in the evening after the bedtime routine.

It's not for everybody and doesn't leave a lot of "me" time, but I'm personally finding a lot of fulfillment in trying to build a family-friendly remote-first company.

SkyPuncher 4 years ago |

Hours scale linearly. Startups scale exponentially.

IMO, the grind is overrated and merely covers up impending failure in many startups. Start small, stay focused, be extremely intentional in everything that you do/don't do. Grind when necessary (like to close a client or a big push).

I really enjoy thinking of it as "working at the peak of sustainability".

rsyring 4 years ago |

Why do you want to do a startup? Money, "success", really care about a cause? Whatever it is, how much of your family will you sacrifice in pursuit of it?

Does it have to be a "startup." Is there a business you can start and grow at a reasonable pace?

There is such thing as ministry of presence. It's the value others receive by your simply living life with them in an attentive and caring way. IMO, the typical startup will require so much from you, you won't be able to invest well in your family.

I'd encourage you to make family investment a top priority. I'm 40 and I've done freelancing and now own a dev consulting company. But I deliberately avoided the startup lifestyle or expectations. I prioritized my family and I've not regretted it. I'm not successful by some standards, but I won't lay on my death bed someday regretting not being there for my wife and kids.

muzani 4 years ago |

There are many ranges of startups. I've been able to do one with a toddler and kids and a full time job. It's a light one, and I just had to sacrifice some entertainment time and get up earlier. Lockdown has given me more time too.

There's plenty of examples of lighter companies you can do on Indie Hackers. But generally, it's the ones which aren't profitable enough to be seed funded or too risky to the point that you wouldn't jump into it full time. If you're making a SaaS or a Instacart, you won't be able to manage that part time.

Some old problems might be worth it. For example, Android still doesn't have a good note taking app. It's a problem old enough that nobody is going to fund it.

And if it doesn't work out, at least you've done a little research and can get a head start once your kids are a little older.

kenrose 4 years ago |

I did it at 37 with two kids.

As others have pointed out, the key is focus. You have a family and they demand / deserve some amount of your time.

So make that time. Prioritize it.

There will always be more to do in your company than you or your team can address. Focus on the important stuff, say no to the rest.

rideg 4 years ago |

I work full-time on my upstart. I have five kids, the oldest is 7 the youngest is 1. I am not sure if I will be successful, but I think it is doable. I might have a superhero wife tho. :)

codegeek 4 years ago |

Yes I am a parent and a founder. In fact, when I started, my 2 kids were toddlers and infant. The key is to figure out what your goals are and work slowly towards that. There is no right or wrong answer. Do what works best for you. You want to quit your job ? Go for it if you can manage. You want to do this on the side ? Go for it. But totally doable if you have the discipline.

tarun_anand 4 years ago |

Right here.. Founder in 40s..

Don't sweat.. If there are systems and processes you will be able to manage after an initial period of grind

angmarsbane 4 years ago |

If you go down this route, your spouse needs to have a real understanding of what it means and she has to be onboard.

You also need to have an agreement on what trade offs you’re both willing to make, and for how long.

joshmanders 4 years ago |

36 with a 6 year old child. I am building two companies on the side of my day job.

sethammons 4 years ago |

founder Isaac Saldana created SendGrid while maintaining his family.