Ask HN: Are any of you still unvaccinated? If so, why? We are an open minded community, right? We're curious. Let's listen to those who have chosen not to get vaccinated and what are their reasons. |
Ask HN: Are any of you still unvaccinated? If so, why? We are an open minded community, right? We're curious. Let's listen to those who have chosen not to get vaccinated and what are their reasons. |
1. I Have had covid and got over it. The fatality rate in my age group is <.1% There is simply no necessity. I am not going to get something I don’t need just because Pfizer needs to get paid.
2. I recall a half year’s worth of politicians and media saying not to trust “a rushed vaccine promoted by Trump.” Most people are not just going to conveniently forget that messaging.
3. I have yet to see any data that explains why my natural immunity is inferior to what’s provided by a vaccine. This would be a first. The “TruSt tHE ScIeNCe” crowd needs to explain why this is being ignored.
Hope that helps.
[1]: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...
[2]: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-study-recovered-...
That very act of avoiding the topic/suppressing it and pushing “specific science” makes lots of people - many who are very intelligent and aware - suspicious. Pretending that these people are conspiracists or of lower IQ is just counter productive, and will get nowhere.
Politicians are pushing it so hard and so persistently so I wonder why.
I want to follow the money trail.
Who pays whom? how much? Where money goes after that?
It smells like a giant collusion between pharma and politicians.
Politicians will invite corrupt, credentialized individual(s) and will incentivize them to make a claims.
That's pretty much how modern science delivery mechanism operates on the value of covid vaccines.
Also, although the vaccine was "rushed to market" relative to the normal process, perhaps the normal process for approving vaccines was overly slow? Maybe as a society we are too conservative in general with things like vaccine approval, and in fact (if you take that these vaccines aren't particularly unsafe which you may not) we were wrong before and the process for how these new COVID vaccines were approved is closer to the "right" speed.
The widespread vaccination as is happening in the West specifically targeted against the spike protein will lead to an evolutionary pressure on the coronavirus to mutate its spike protein. I think all things considered though this is just something we can accept. As the mRNA vaccines were much more suited to quick, mass production it made sense to use them and they are effective at stopping people getting seriously ill.
Primarily though, the reason is that I do not agree with the general politics around COVID in Western societies - lockdowns, performative hygiene theatre, a trend towards authoritarianism, some extremely severe dishonesty and politicking on the part of institutions I might have (mistakenly) respected before like the World Health Organization, and most of all the suppression of and hatred towards those who express any serious dissent from whatever the party line may be on COVID at any given time, which, of course, changes and even reverses. There is no real way to vote against all this, it is very hard to politically organize against it. Where I live all the major political parties support most if not all of the measures. Debate is only around degree and alternatives cannot be considered. It is a taboo and also a class marker to disagree strongly with any of it.
I think many people are aware that there are things that the government and other bodies have lied about and gotten away with, that we have had to go along with over the course of this pandemic, but accept that it is or was for a "greater good". There is a distinction in my mind between being passively complicit in something you don't agree with, and actively collaborating with it. If I go and get a vaccine, that I (perhaps mistakenly?) believe I don't need and don't want, because the government and the media whom I don't trust and everyone knows do lie from time to time, are propagandizing me and my peers to, using emotional manipulation, and even subtly and not so subtly threatening to restrict my freedoms if I do not get it, then - what am I doing? Personally I'm not much more scared of COVID than I am of a plane I take being hijacked. There is a bigger picture here in terms of how society is trending that needs to be slowed down at all costs, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and take a small risk here. It should not in my opinion be acceptable at all for governments to act like how most have with regards to COVID. I want to be able to make my own choice and have the right to not go along with and submit to the theatre of this new, dark power structure which has swept over the world. On a level deep down, I believe people know getting this vaccine is not entirely a free choice, from a political perspective. There are political and social consequences to not getting it, orthogonal to how safe, effective or beneficial it might be.
The vaccines per se are not an issue. They could be 100% safe and 100% effective and I would still be reluctant to get them. I may get the vaccine at some point in the future, but the only reason would be something like if the nature of COVID changed such that I didn't think immunity from my prior infection was sufficient, or more likely out of a sense of political self-preservation if unvaccinated become scapegoats or targets, which they are now to an extent.
Having Covid made me question whether or not I should get the vaccine. My body did fight the real disease, why should I inject myself with something that only tries to mimic the real disease? I started to do some research...
My current conclusion is that my immune system is better than that of any vaccinated person who has not contracted the actual virus.
Suspicious of what exactly? The COVID vaccines aren’t very profitable, certainly not compared to the monoclonal antibodies, antivirals etc, of which the unvaccinated are the greatest consumers. However, the data is unequivocal on their effectiveness in drastically reducing negative outcomes. The vaccines being involved in political in-group out-group dynamics is bitterly regrettable, but that is circumstantial to whether there is legitimate suspicion of the vaccines.
That might be true if the people developing and testing the vaccine were the same people belittling natural immunity. From what I’ve seen that isn’t close to being an accurate characterization. Lumping them together is just the same behavior of which you accuse them, political. Should we be suspicious of you?
I would personally choose to still get vaccinated in your situation.
Why, if I may ask?
The potential harm of a re-infection or of infecting others is higher than the personal risk of being vaccinated.
Why does it need to be confined to that group?
> Lumping them together is just the same behavior of which you accuse them, political.
Where do I accuse a group of something? Where do I “lump people together”.
> Should we be suspicious of you?
You are free to be suspicious of whoever you choose.
Because they're the ones actually presenting the vaccines to the world, and being pro-vax doesn't mean being a deceitful natural immunity denier. I.e unless there is a significant overlap of [vaccine producer and vaccine approver], and [deceitful natural immunity denier] in a Venn diagram then it isn't reasonable to lay the suspicion of the deniers onto those who produce the vaccines.
> Where do I “lump people together”
By being suspicious of the vaccines due to the messaging of people who have nothing to do with the production or approval of the vaccines. That is implicitly lumping together vaccine developers, vaccine manufacturers, vaccine testers, and regulators into the same group as a bunch of politicians, journalists, and a range of other parties on the periphery all speculating or spinning things to gain a desired outcome. If that first group didn't publish the data and all I had to go on was the spin then I'd join you in suspicion, but thankfully I don't have to because I can go read the studies myself, and I was personally in one of them.
No, the drug developers and testers are not the ones ‘presenting’ the vaccines to the world. The vaccines are being presented by politicians and drug companies.
> By being suspicious of the vaccines
Where did I say I was suspicious of the vaccines?
> I don't have to because I can go read the studies myself, and I was personally in one of them.
Being in a study on vaccines doesn’t tell you anything about the population data, but it might create a personal attachment.
In any case, you may be able to read the papers, but most people obviously can’t, and are relying on public communicators to help form their understanding.
In this context, suppression of true information creates distrust.