I’m using Apple Maps for the app that I’m developing now.

The alternative would not have been Google Maps. It would have been MapBox.

Google Maps will give app developers like me severe sticker shock. I watched a friend of mine get it in the shorts (forcing him to switch to MapBox). After watching that, I decided that I will never depend on Google services as a linchpin technology. In fact, it simply hardened my resolve to avoid third-party dependence, wherever possible.

When I started the project I’m working on now, Apple Maps had already grown to cover all of the US, albeit not as well as Google Maps. I’ve been seeing Apple Maps cars driving around here, for at least a couple of years.

I’m pretty confident that relying on Apple Maps was not a mistake.

Even if Apple Maps doesn't have as much data as Google, the experience is so much better. Makes a lot of sense that Google is copying it as per the article.

Whenever I use Google Maps, it constantly harasses me about how there's a slowdown ahead, puts a little tray across the bottom of the screen hiding the information I care about, with no way to get rid of it except tapping and other nonsense. I searched throughout the settings and can't find anyway to turn off all these annoying pop ups it has. Someone needs to write an ad blocker for it.

Apple Maps not only doesn't constantly harass me with meaningless notifications I can't dismiss without taking my hands off the wheel, it also shows traffic lights, and the voice over instructions include them as well. With Google I often turn too early or too late because it isn't very clear exactly when to turn. With Apple Maps that happens a lot less because Siri will flat out tell you, turn at this light, turn at the next light, etc..

I've been recently trying out the new Apple maps' turn by turn navigation. Some of the directions are almost human like - "Take a left at next traffic light" Must say makes driving directions easier to follow compared to take a left on X street, when I can't even see what X street is at night.

> Perhaps the most noticeable difference between Apple’s old and new maps is all of the vegetation detail Apple has added.

I really don't understand the way they blend forests and fields together. It used to be that forests and grasslands were marked green and agricultural land was white, so you could easily tell the difference. Now they are the same, or nearly the same, color while the difference in landscape is massive. To actually tell the difference now you have to switch to the satellite map.

I don't see how this is adding more detail. If anything it's providing less information.

I still don't understand why Apple map is so bad compared to OpenStreetMap given that they contribute a lot to it (they are even the biggest company contributor to OSM). There must be a reason, legal or something, but why don't they just use OSM as a default for places they didn't map by themselves?

[1]: https://www.gislounge.com/openstreetmap-one-of-the-worlds-la...

Every time I've tried Apple Maps, I run into the same problem--it doesn't seem to predict your realtime location ahead by X feet to account for your speed and delay in GPS signal. Google Maps does this. The result is that on Apple Maps, your position is "behind" where you really are at the moment, and it's harder to make the turn. Google's tradeoff is that if you miss a turn, it will momentarily show your position as if you'd made the turn correctly. Perhaps this is a matter of preference, but I am much more successful at navigating while driving using Google Maps than with Apple Maps.

I’m on the big island of Hawaii and Apple Maps is basically useless. I can’t find my hostel by name. I also can’t find it by address. It’s just very bad.

Meanwhile, in other parts of the world it cannot even get the shape of land and country borders right. Here's an example on the border of Montenegro and Albania: https://imgur.com/a/B3aVJYH

This article is from last year but the latest iOS 15 updates show how mature Apple maps has become (see https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-maps/). It’s not just at parity but actually better than Google maps. It has beautiful rendering and easy readability, and I haven’t encountered odd routing issues for a couple years now. The added privacy is a welcome bonus. The only thing missing is a way to report police presence like on Waze.

I’ve been impressed by Apple’s pace and wish there was more I could read about their engineering and product journey for the maps product.

I recently started using Apple Maps in my car using CarPlay and just pleasantly surprised with some nice features as showing STOP and SIGNAL signs on the map so I know when to stop way beforehand in my mind rather than straining my eyes to look for those signs when I get closer to them. Makes a huge difference when you are tired and can not focus 100% when driving.

To compete, Apple Maps will also need to have a fully accessible web version

Since this 2020 post, Apple's home grown map data has extended to all of the US and it's territories, Canada, Ireland, The U.K., Spain, Portugal, and Italy.

I believe Australia is the next addition.

https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-expansion-12

You can access the Apple Maps web interface through DuckDuckGo.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Rome+Italy&ia=web&iaxm=maps

This needs a (2020) in the title.

Google = data company

Apple = design company, who's getting better at being a data company

As an aside, I really love reading these yearly posts from Justin. I always drop what I'm doing when I see one of these posts from him.

From 2020.

I discovered that Google Maps is consuming a huge amount of data, several GB during my last vacation, nearly depleting my contingent. How does Apple Maps compare?

I still don't get it. Apple is a company people cheer for, yet it continues to accrue substantial and dangerous power.

They don't let you repair devices, install your own software, or run your business unfettered. They spy on your files. They coddle and report to authoritarian governments.

This monopoly is lauded and praised as it continues to get bigger and encompass everything one does.

I don't understand it.

It hurts to watch this.

I suspect they want to review and check every inch of OSM in an area before they import it.

Just incase someone has hidden something extremely offensive within the dataset, and deliberately mutilated the maps to create funny images etc

Google had a few very public cases of people using their open contribution process to embed images of Android, penises and hate symbols into their maps. All this created a huge about of negative PR, and eventually resulted in the contributions system being shutdown.

Apple is still in the process of creating and rolling out their own map data.

In areas where they haven't converted to their own data, they still rely on map data from others, like TomTom and OSM.

I think it might be because Apple will have to give visible attribution to OpenStreetMaps, which may attract users towards it to the detriment of Apple maps.

Google Maps is better[1] but none of them come even remotely close of Open Street Maps[2]

[1]: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.858832,19.3550722,13.71z

[2]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/728419973#map=13/41.8835/...

You can report data issues at https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/149 (Montenegro) https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/148 (Albania)

>it cannot even get the shape of land and country borders right

Neither can Google.

>From Pakistan, Kashmir appears disputed while from India, it appears as a part of India, the Post report said, adding that "Google Maps changes disputed borders based on what country you search from".

https://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/google-maps-redraws-d...

While the maps themselves are excellent, it's a shame you lose out on Google's frankly ridiculous business data. I've had Apple Maps route me to a café that was temporarily closed, while Google Maps knew it was closed, for example.

I find I prefer to use Apple Maps for driving because it's just a nicer experience (though that's largely due to having hooks in iOS that Google Maps is not allowed), but I still don't really trust it when walking around a city. I'm in the UK so I'm not sure if it's better in the US, but it's not there yet over here.

Can’t speak for elsewhere in the world, but I find Apple’s navigation quality to be at least on par with Google’s here in Canada. Its biggest deficiency for me now is its relatively poor point-of-interest data

This is might be true but only if you live the US. In the UK, Apple Maps is not par with Google Maps unfortunately.

Apple Maps really look nice. But depending where you are the information can be shocking barren. Especially in Japan. They look really great but there is no labels, or anything. And if they are not as well double labeled (english and japanese).

They are amazing compared what crap we got back in 2012 or so when apple maps replaced google maps.

Speaking of Waze (which is originally an Israeli company, if you didn't know):

I was in Tel Aviv in 2017 in a rental car at Ben Gurion airport, trying to find the rental car return. The signs all pointed me one way, and Google Maps agreed. I followed them, and got to a place where Google said "your destination is on the left."

I cursed "no, it f&cking isn't!" After much driving around and stopping to ask people, I finally found it. The rental car company had given me a sheet of paper saying where it really was, which I had neglected to look at (never having had a problem before).

I never checked to see if Waze had it right.

Nowhere close to how accurate Google is in India

“Easy readability” on this point I find myself wishing there was a way to make street names and fonts in general bigger in Apple Maps. Also green font on green backgrounds, why ? In terms of planning there is still no way to add multiple routes along the way which would be a nice addition.

I'd love to use Apple maps for driving directions, but I just can't get used to its mostly-overhead navigation view. I regularly take wrong turnings when following Apple Maps, which almost never happens with Google Maps or TomTom.

>It’s not just at parity but actually better than Google maps.

In North America.

Google maps is accurate down to minute details in African countries.

You can report things. Even with Siri.

You're not wrong, but you're making the classic Hacker News mistake by assuming that the average person gives even the slightest crap about any of that stuff—or if they do, that they are directly affected by it.

Apple makes (mostly, with some fairly large asterisks attached) reliable devices, with all the software most people want to run. Most people do not sell apps and therefore are not familiar with the bullshit that is App Store policy. And many of their customers are based in the west, where their stance on privacy at least _seems_ substantially better than their big tech alternatives. For those based in China, coddling with an authoritarian government is just business as usual.

The most important factor to most people, myself included for the most part, is that they make devices people enjoy using.

Brand and personal investment of time and money in that brand means people will defend their investment.

It's why you can detect so much anger and pain in anti apple threads, because people's personalities are wrapped up with the brand.

A consumer doesn't just get one apple device, or just use one apple app, they buy the watch, phone, desktop, laptop, subscriptions, walled garden store, etc, and it works. It's a family which is hard to leave because you like it there.

First, I don't think your comment is relevant to this discussion, but I guess that has never stopped anyone on HN. People complain about Apple maps, and the article is about how much work Apple is doing to improve their maps.

As to many of your other points, they are just wrong. I do repair my own devices, I do install my own software and I do run my business unfettered. I can't speak for others, but your assertion is not consistent with my own experience.

Which files do they "spy" on? They do offer on-device services like automatic photo tagging, rule based email filtering, etc. I can use those or not. I can grep and search my files, so I guess Apple (the OS) is "looking" at my files. Is that different than any OS? Basically any OS vendor has access to your files. You either trust it or you don't. Apple's business model is not built on selling my data to advertisers so I choose to trust them. You are welcome to make another choice.

As far as coddling to authoritarian governments, yes they follow the laws of the countries they operate in. So do any other companies that operate in those countries. That stinks, but that is the reality. Companies can either abandon markets or follow local laws. Which of these is the long term good? Lots of valid arguments both ways, but there can be no argument on one point. Operating in country X requires following the laws of country X.

Look, they are no saints, I get that. But they build great devices that do everything I want them to do. Of course there are people that have bad experiences, but overall Apple's customer satisfaction numbers are extremely high and people keep buying their devices. That's not an opinion.

To your central point, yes, as Apple offers more services that I find useful they do accrue more power. Which large companies that offer useful services do not accrue associated power? I choose to align with the company whose business model is not built upon selling me and my data to third parties. Eyes wide open. There are other good choices and I am happy for other people to make different choices. I don't feel pain for them.

I don't understand why you focus on apple. The problem is accros the entire mobile space, the frightening thing is not the power of apple, it's the fact that _alternatives are not much better_

Yeah, it's extremely frustrating. It's like everyone's efforts to preserve our freedoms and control don't matter. All progress is undone because Apple's offerings are just that much more comfortable. It's a constant uphill battle against billion dollar companies who are always light years ahead of us in terms of software and strategy.

It sucks.

They make stuff people want to buy and overall devices that people can use to get things done. Unpopular opinion around here I know.

Ever seen folks decked out in Harley-Davidson, NASCAR, or MOPAR gear?

Never underestimate the power of good branding.

I’m not an Apple fanboi, but I don’t regret choosing it as my main development platform.

> continues to accrue substantial and dangerous power.

> They coddle and report to authoritarian governments.

There's an interesting tension here. One strand of complaint is "Apple is too powerful", and the other is "Apple isn't ignoring laws".

If you're worried about the accrual of power to megacorporations, maybe you'd not like for them to be picking and choosing what laws they'll obey based on their own whims?

I have never needed to repair an Apple device, because they work well for the duration of their lifetime in my experience. When I have occasionally needed repairs, Apple does a fine job of servicing my product for a reasonable price. I can install every piece of software that I want on my Mac, and every business/startup I've worked at has used Macs as the default hardware so I'm not so sure about your "they prevent you from running your business unfettered" claim either.

tl;dr - the stuff you're worried about is probably moot to the average consumer, which is why Apple continues to make sales.