When it comes to my son though, I've never once regretted the time and effort I dedicated to him.
Sounds like the real loser is Joe Lonsdale. I hope he'll come to understand what's truly import during the short time on this planet before it's too late.
Many of these people are very "do as I say, not as i do" types.
But for normal people, you're lucky if you have some family to help out a day or two in the first few weeks. In the case of my wife and I for our son, we were flying solo. And that's assuming a normal birth - if your new baby has to spend time in the NICU... that's extra nerve wracking and emotionally taxing even though technically there are trained staff "taking care" of your baby.
Asking this guy’s opinion on the matter is like asking the fox about security for the hen’s house.
The article mentions that he is the father of three.
It's also worth noting that the article title omits part of the tweet; the actual text says "...any man in an important position...", so he's not talking about ordinary workers.
(On a meta level, it's actually kind of regrettable that there's a HN guideline against encouraging posters to read the article before commenting since it's clear that so many don't.)
If you value masculinity, look for the "quiet professional" type role models. The ones doing masculine things and not posting brags, rants, and videos on YouTube or social media about it. And do[1] your own masculine things[2].
One positive role model I can refer people to is Pat McNamara on YouTube. He's got tons of "masculine cred" (retired Delta Force operator, killer workout regime and work ethic) but is in touch with his feelings, enjoys gardening and bird watching, and is humorously self-deprecating, which I respect tremendously.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pat+mcnamara+ba...
1. If you want to do masculine things. You don't have to. There are a huge variety of people out there and a huge variety of personal and cultural definitions of what being a man, or their particular identified gender, is.
2. My masculine things are BJJ, sewing, cooking (exploring Thai currently), smoking meats, woodworking, not belittling others, and lifting weights. Yours may or may not be different.
It was that line of reasoning that had me switch off the TV two decades ago. (Now I just need to also dial down my internet attention.)
Is this what social media amplifies? Some dude who makes a statement that is clearly atypical gets hyper focused on while internet “pundits” scream at each other about it?
It’s clearly an extreme statement, made with the perfect intent to stoke outrage, that gets amplified, then Fortune writes an article and it gets linked on HN.
Whatever happens to “wow that’s a dumb statement” then moving on?
You characterize the statement about paternity leave as dumb and clearly atypical, but is it? Paternity leave still appears to be an unpopular idea in the US, or else why hasn't the US moved towards the EU direction?
IMO this tweet was calculated not just for outrage but also for rallying. Rallying is more important than outrage.
I mean look at the occasional bizarre tweets from Elon Musk.
It’s ok to look at a tweet and say “thats fucking stupid” and move on.
1 - Joe immediately regretted using the word "loser" https://twitter.com/JTLonsdale/status/1453420638832635904
2 - The headline is missing "in an important position." Joe's statement applies to the top leaders of a company/country, not everyone. He's saying people like the CEOs/SVPs of a company, or the presidents/cabinet members of a country, shouldn't take six months off without staying involved even part time. That's a reasonable take that I think most boards and top executives agree with.
It's not like you have to spend your entire life at work and can never see your child. It's just that top leaders at a company have commitments to the company that shouldn't really be dropped for six whole months. If you're in one of these positions, and you take time off (for any reason), it either needs to be a short vacation, or you need to stay involved at the same time (like a vacation where you're still checking in for important meetings).
In a well-functioning organization, you (as a leader) should be developing leaders underneath you in all the time that you are not on paternity leave. That way, when you do have a family commitment, they can step into your position and the organization is just fine. This is handy for a lot of reasons other than paternity leave: it increases your bus number, it generates a deep leadership bench in case the organization wants to take on additional initiatives, and it reinforces the idea that leadership is a role and not a person, such that many potential leaders could step into the role and do it well.
I think it's pretty clear what he thinks of men who aren't the family bread winners, too.
Many new fathers would only take one or two days. So at least with my working class background this is a couple of privileged people, from an extremely privileged class complaining about how much they should use their privilege.
The landlord doesn’t care all that much, while you can get three or four months of unpaid leave no working class person can afford to take all that much time.
A man in an important position (as if any other would have the choice) who is able to but chooses not to for fear of being seen as a loser is a chump, though.
These are all misguided.
Indeed, I levy the exact same claim on all those comments.
To claim that men not seeing the point of taking six months off don't want a healthy family life is a symptom of an American / Western family life gone horribly wrong. Mom should have lots of family, friends, etc, who are able to help her with the female aspects of being a new mom, such as breastfeeding, post-birth care, etc. Try as I may, as a husband, I cannot fully give my wife what her mom, my mom, and her female friends can give her. I'm useless at practical breastfeeding advice (and frankly, most lactation consultants are too), don't know how to advise her on vaginal healing, etc. I can read all day long about these things, but I would never think of the stuff her practiced friends and family would tell her.
Because we have a strong family and community, mom doesn't need to rely on dad for child care help. Dad can instead do other things, which are also useful for the family (like making sure mom has enough food to eat). That many women are relying on their husbands for this sort of support just shows the problems with the isolation of the American family.
When I took paternity leave with my youngest daughter (four weeks, and will probably do less next time), I was still working with my eldest daughter. She would help me with various tasks around the house, various projects that I needed help with, etc. In fact, I think I was out of the house more during paternity leave than when I'm working (since we're all WFH during COVID anyway).
Instead of overly long paternity leave (and again, I am not against paternity leave in general, just the months long ones), we need flexible hours for new fathers (way more useful than full day leave) and a culture that embraces actual community (not the forced government community either, but actual human connection).
The catch ... his wife is working from home. So in fact she is doing all the hard work child care. He... essentially took a paid-off sabbatical B-)
I'm no history major but I am pretty sure woman have been as much the workers as men (think the gather component of hunter/gatherer).
Now that my kid is nearly four I would also love more time off. How about more family friendly, or just less time-demanding, jobs in general?
[going off topic a bit it seems to me like post-Covid lockdown more and more people are looking for this, and are leaving jobs that can't provide it]
Now that my kids are older I spend a lot more time with them than when they were too young for school. All of them are very good gardeners - theyve been helping me in the garden since they were old enough to move around in there without hurting themselves. My oldest daughter can swing a hammer better than most men. I enjoy spending time with them and showing them how to do things.
Absolutely agree. My toddler is much more difficult than my newborn, and much more likely to behave with me than my wife.
I respectfully disagree. Men are better at socializing children. Children without fathers have lower levels of empathy, more likely to engage in anti-social behavior, and more likely to be narcissists.
Mothers indulge children, and care for them, which is great, but leads to self-centeredness. Fathers set boundaries, enforce rules, and stop playing with children when they get mean. Many traditional cultures see the father's role as introducing children to the outside world and teaching them their place in it, and I believe this is backed by empirical data.
[1] https://www.fox26houston.com/houstons-morning-show/fathers-i...
[2] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2001/apr/05/crime.penal
Mothers are certainly better at providing for the immediate physical and emotional needs for children.
Thankfully, we don’t need to be beholden to history.
That was kind of the point of my comment. I think my snark went over your head.
If your workmate is taking a year of paternity leave and his wife is working from home, my assumption is that he'd be the primary caregiver for diapers, holding the baby, putting him down for naps, cleaning up around the house, and his wife would be nursing the baby and possibly sleeping with it (which is basically a full-time job itself in the newborn phase). That was roughly how we divided responsibilities when I was on paternity leave.
I'm not arguing for or against Jon but your statement is quite indicative of large social issue. Family. Not long ago after childbirth, aunts, sisters and grandparents would be around to help the young couple take care of the baby - and their sanity - while keeping things moving. Alas, we've reduced family to an expense line item. All in the name of progress. Whatever that means.
So maybe I will stand with Jons of the world, albeit from a different perspective.
But it is a relationship. If dad hasn't been there in the past, kid's got no reason to go to him for comfort or guidance in the future. That starts at birth, with holding & skin-to-skin contact, and continues through daily caregiving.