U.S. Is Open as Canada Shuts Down. The Difference? Their Health Care Systems

U.S. Is Open as Canada Shuts Down. The Difference? Their Health Care Systems(bloomberg.com)

14 points by brimnes 4 years ago | 17 comments

brimnes 4 years ago |

> "David Naylor, a physician and former University of Toronto president who led a federal review into Canada’s response to the 2003 SARS epidemic, said hospital capacity probably plays a bigger role in Canadian decision-making than in the U.S. because Canada’s universal system means “the welfare of the entire population is affected if health care capacity is destabilized.”

> But he also argued that focusing only on hospital capacity could be misleading. “Both Canada and the U.S. have lower capacity than many European countries,” he wrote by email.

> The major difference between the two countries’ responses to Covid outbreaks is cultural, Naylor argues. In Canada, more than the U.S., policy is guided by a “collectivist ethos” that tolerates prolonged shutdowns and other public health restrictions to keep hospitals from collapsing." -article

version_five 4 years ago |

I wish this got more attention.

At the same time, it's not just about the private system having more capacity, it's also about the whole attitude that comes with thinking it's the government's job to take care of people and the idea that when they can't, the should restrict peoples freedoms as a result (and anyone who has dealt with Canada's health care system knows its mediocre at the best of times)

We need much stronger decoupling between the governments inability to deliver on programs and the restrictions it places on people. Somehow we manage to find enough police to enforce all the restrictions...

I'd be interested to see how this is different in other European countries with socialized healthcare, because canada is not the only one

emkoemko 4 years ago | |

"Canada's health care system knows its mediocre at the best of times" sorry what? you seen south of the border? 50,000 people die a year because they don't have access to health care... they have 3rd world disease spreading...they have what looks like 3rd world humanitarian efforts where doctors/dentist etc go to parts of the USA to provide basic healthcare... its a joke for one of the richest countries in the world.

https://youtu.be/JHDkALRz5Rk?t=1454 people need to see this when they push for privatization

mean while Saskatchewan moved to privatize MRI because they said it "would increase capacity and be cheaper" and what happened when money got involved? now rich people skip the line and guess what? it got more expensive and the wait times doubled for the regular people... Canadian system is not perfect we don't have universal pharmacare yet but hopefully we will soon, but thinking we should go the route of America is crazy.

brimnes 4 years ago | |

America's COVID death rate is 3x that of Canada's.

natvert 4 years ago | | |

This is not true. The case fatality rates are very similar. https://www.cmaj.ca/content/192/25/E666

Even if the rates were very different, the any difference claimed to be caused by specific measures would not necessarily be causal as implied by brimnes. For example, what are risk factors for COVID? Here are some data on obesity: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db56.htm#:~:tex.... What about weather differences? The list goes on.

version_five 4 years ago | | |

And?

effie 4 years ago | |

In one small EU country with socialist public healthcare that was already in disarray years before COVID, we see largely successful introduction of totalitarian government methods, similar to those used by the Nazi and Bolshevik regimes from 20th century.

On the premise of hospitals being full, hard freedom restricting rules are introduced for a selected group of people while government ignores the rules when it would mean loosening up the restrictions. Selective use of scientific facts in government narratives (vaccine benefits vs vaccine failures), TV stations and major web sites are one sided propaganda mouthpieces (government gave them money to ensure they will help out). Public figures criticizing government policies are being smeared, healthcare professional criticizing government policies are being smeared and threatened, some even investigated by committees for "spreading disinformation about pandemic".

The government has learned to use the word "science" and that is a major problem. It uses the word to shield itself from criticism and is foisting on the dangerous thesis that consensus of a small, invisible and government-chosen group of people to handle the pandemic is the definition of scientific truth.

mthoms 4 years ago |

The title doesn’t seem to match the tone or tenor of the article very well.

It could just as easily say “US Covid deaths are 3x that of Canada’s - despite its hospital bed shortages. The difference? A more collectivist ethos.”

MattGaiser 4 years ago |

Many parts of America would be open (and have been open) no matter how full the ICUs become.

jleyank 4 years ago |

That and the fact that almost half of the us sees covid as fake or irrelevant. As others have said, they’re open and staying open no matter what.

mitchbob 4 years ago |

Archived: https://archive.ph/DBEVM

emkoemko 4 years ago |

wow didn't know this, so why do 50,000 Americans die from lack of health care in America each year?

toomuchtodo 4 years ago | |

Because a functioning healthcare system (either single payer or a more regulated public/private arrangement) is considered socialism/communism by enough voters and their Congressional reps, and so every actor in the healthcare system operates to maximize their profits, with the citizen healthcare consumer on the losing end. Most expensive OECD healthcare, worst outcomes, and people who cannot afford health insurance or expensive healthcare services die.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/03/u-s-pays-more...

https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2020/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare...

https://www.brookings.edu/research/a-dozen-facts-about-the-e...

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2019/us-health-care-spending-hi...

emkoemko 4 years ago | | |

watched this doc a while back https://youtu.be/JHDkALRz5Rk?t=1458 this is America by the way but you could be tricked into thinking this is some 3rd world country with a NGO trying to give medical aid....