So poignantly expressed. I am usually skeptical of 'true love', but these kind of stories remind me I could be so utterly wrong. It is rare to find people as committed to each other as Judy & Steve.
Wise, thanks. That very concisely captures what I've been coming around to understanding about having relationships with anyone. I've had it easy with best friends that were so similar (because we grew up together), but life is long(ish) and people change and grow apart. Even if you have a a relationship that is on easy-mode, it will change for a sufficiently long time-horizon (marriage).
When couples come to ministers to talk about their marriage ceremonies, ministers think it’s interesting to ask if they love one another. What a stupid question! How would they know? A Christian marriage isn’t about whether you’re in love. Christian marriage is giving you the practice of fidelity over a lifetime in which you can look back upon the marriage and call it love. It is a hard discipline over many years.
If she got really sick I would stay with her and care for her. A huge chunk of that is because I'm attached to her, the little human pattern that the universe mumbles out. The other mind that looks at me and convinces me I actually exist.
I personally think it's irresponsible to set up these weird transcendental expectations. If anyone reading this has yet to fall in love or be in a long term relationship, it's all flowery and cute and lovey at first and then one day you fart for the first time in front of her. There's like, non-subjectively evident demands that you agree to impose on yourself when becoming a union. Physical. Social. Emotional.
I would not leave my wife if her mind was gone. Besides my irrational human attachment, I can't imagine putting my family, her family, our friends, through the experience of seeing her be abandoned by her life partner. Of having them experience evil unmask itself through the act of relegating her to a meat body, which we all are.
I don't know why I felt such a strong urge to express my cynicism. I don't believe in souls, I guess is part of it. I also don't like when people get hyped into expecting the universe from others. My wife loves me deeply, I feel it when she randomly puts her head on my shoulder or I catch her staring at me. She would also yell at me in embarrassment if I farted loudly next to her at the grocery store.
I never thought of leaving or not caring for her, just as I am sure she would have never left me if I was in the same situation. Was this because of a deep love, a result of thirty years spent building a life and habits together, civic and marital duty or some combination of all of these? The thought of not caring for someone in her situation so close to me is anathema.
Concerning diseases that reduce ones mental acuity; every time she would lose the ability to speak or understand, it was crushing. She would often regain some functionality, but each time something was lost. In her final days, she would sometimes regain consciousness and speak to me, but couldn't understand what she was saying. This is/was one of the most distressing things for me to experience. I often sit and wonder what it was she wanted to tell me and how I will never know.
It is perhaps the gravitas and wordsmanship which makes the author's story remarkable. It exposed us to his thought process, and the minutaé of his feelings. As a thinking species, we perhaps appreciate this expressivity. These adversities are more common than depicted & many couples with disabilities do share meaningful time together.
Osho – The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha
My mom is suffering through dementia right now. We did something similar. We made photo albums, and went through them every day, until my mom stopped responding to them. Within a couple of years, she forgot who we were, or she would mix up my sister for her sister.
After 7 years from her diagnosis, she no longer talks and she no longer responds to me. My sister is taking full time care of her, and she is cleaning her several times a day because she's incontinent. My mom recently has stopped swallowing. She also seems to have contracted a mild case of COVID, and my sister has been self-flagellating herself because she felt guilty about it. I of course told my sister there's no reason to feel guilty, everyone is getting it and it's something everyone will deal with, especially my mom. I secretly wish it would take my mom's life to end her misery.
The worst part in the first few years were her lucid moments. During one of those moments she wrote a letter to God, asking to die, because she knew something was wrong but she didn't know what. We found the letter hidden in her dresser. Every time I think about it, I burst out in tears, even now. It's disgustingly cruel for someone who spend her entire life sacrificing her life for her kids and family, and asking nothing else.
So when articles like this come out, it is extremely difficult to contain my contempt at any stories that don't paint the picture exactly how it is: a complete and utter shitshow. It's unfair for the victim and it's unfair for the caretakers. And it's extremely expensive and almost impossible to keep your loved one living in a modicum of dignity.
Donate to your nation's dementia or Alzheimer's research foundations.
My wife of 11 years left me this year (I still don't know why). I think about the same thing... I still (probably) have time to find out what it's like to be married 30 years, but I (probably) no longer have the time to experience a 60-year marriage. And that was, honestly, the only serious goal I had for my life, so that sucks.
But, you know, once upon a time a girlfriend of 7 years left me, and I was sad that I'd have to start again. But my mom told me, and she was right, that when the next go-round happened, it's not really like starting again in many ways. Much of the maturation that happens in a relationship is actually carried within to the next relationship. So, although I still envy those who get to stay married, and those who are still married and so might yet stay married, maybe I don't need to believe that my dream is completely dead. If it's not too pretentious, maybe I can hope that I can make kintsugi of myself.
I started this message hoping to commiserate and perhaps encourage, but actually I guess I'm just wallowing. Dealing with grief is still tough, what a surprise.
My point is that I'll never develop the depth of stories that I had with my ex-wife. Fortunately she and I are still friends (strange after trying to destroy each other for several years), so we get to keep our stories alive.
You hardly need any reason to go get your Tdap booster. Any faint possibility that it might stave off dementia ought to be enough by itself. Get your shingles vaccine, too, while you're there. And, get prescribed some valacyclovir: studies in Asia have shown that had a desirable effect, with no risk.
[0] doi:10.1093/gerona/glab115, https://sci-hub.se/10.1093/gerona/glab115
Academic journal publishers are the scum of the earth.
They're quite connected though.
When I visited him for the last time he knew who I was.
But he clearly repeated very similar behavior patterns.
He also showed clear signs of not remembering 'state'. Like time or location.
It was very hard for me because that gave me the feeling that he as a person was gone.
I cried after that for a while and it was basically me saying good bye .
My sister didn't see it like that. She didn't mind doing a sleepover and having her daughter with her. My mother also glanced over that. My other sister agreed on my thoughts.
I liked that she didn't see it like that and spend time with him but I could not do that.
Of course I might be wrong. I don't assume I know how he thought but what else to assume?
I don't think I could do that if my wife started to show similar pattern.
And, it can be terrifying to not know where you are or who you are for some people in those moments. So maybe he found some comfort in those moments with that one sister. That's how I think about it.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/scott-whitt-9b1261_cassava-sc...
Every experience is different. But most people think "oh, they just start getting forgetful", but as the mind decays, everything, everything, goes. Imagine your parent screaming at you in rage because they are hungry, but they've also decided that they hate every food you put in front of them, and they have refused to eat for two days. They are quite literally starving. "What do you want, I'll literally make you anything!", and they scream back "JUST BRING ME SOME FOOD!" Your life is falling apart trying to take care of them. And your parent tells you they hate you, and that you must hate them, since you aren't helping them. They can't shower, they can't brush their teeth, they can't use the bathroom without help. You start to need to take care of them like they are a baby, but babies are tiny and weak, your parent is large and while they're not "strong" anymore, they're still able to fight you in a way a baby cannot. They're in constant physical pain, but they can't describe where, and they lash out both physically and verbally.
They'll forget how to speak, or maybe they just stop trying. Then, they'll forget how to chew, and then once you move to a liquid diet, they'll eventually forget how to swallow.
Fuck this article.
There is absolutely nothing good about losing a loved one to dementia. It is constant pain, for years.
I still remember the first time my Mom flinched in fear as I went to give her a hug, as she didn't recognize me. Her greatest fear was losing her mind, and it happened, and there was nothing any of us could do about it. It was a mercy when her body passed, as everything she was had died, inch by inevitable inch, years before. It was cruel, horrible, everything.
On my father's increasingly rare good days, I often think of Stanislaw Lem's "Solaris" — "I persisted in the faith that the time of cruel miracles was not past."
It just boggles my mind that the moral crusaders scream endlessly about ending the suffering of these people or those people… and yet they do nothing to end the suffering of millions who are right in their back yard and who’s suffering can be ended relatively quickly and easily through very simple legislation, awareness and education. It’s the lowest hanging fruit and yet it goes unpicked.
And there is a large skilled nursing industry that is very happy to profit from it all…
I've found that when I'm honest about my feelings, even the messy ones, honest about my thoughts, even if they don't paint me in a good light, my spouse hears me and eventually, accepts me. And it makes me fall in love all over again.
It frees up my consciousness. I don't have to do the mental dance of "oh, you can say this, but don't say that. Say it this way, not that way. Don't mention this."
And I have to do my best to afford her the same.
You have the choice of either a 10 minute, awkward conversation, putting everything in on the table. But having your conscious cleared. Zero parallel threads running in the back of your mind. :)
Or keep these thoughts in the back of your head for months/years, where you expend mental energy suppressing them, sacrificing your creativity, closeness, and vitality. You'll find yourself getting mad at seemingly superficial stuff when the honest truth is because you're seething or ashamed or afraid, with so much to say.
Your choice. Choose the courageous path. Surrender the outcome.
- Learning to Speak the Microscopic Truth
https://hendricks.com/newwp/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Micro...
- Great story from Michael Brody, SAAS entrepreneur, ex-addict
(1. Practice Rigorous Authenticity, 2. Surrender the Outcome, 3. Do the Uncomfortable Work)
https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_brody_waite_great_leaders_...
― Carl R. Rogers
I first encountered this idea from the Conscious Leadership Group (Gay Hendricks works with them), and now I can't help but notice that it seems to apply to HN comments (and the result of a given thread), as choices in the words and grammar of each statement.
I appreciate how we almost reflexively communicate about those emotions in bits of poetry. They splay out in so many directions, it's like we're picking fruits from an orchard and showing each other what we discover. It's really nice to get to be in the orchard.
Marriages between college-educated people are only about 30% likely to end in divorce.
Their work has helped my second marriage to be 10x what my first one was.
Them teaching me to tell the difficult truths was a big part of that.
>reserved only for the deepest of lovers
For some reason I interpreted this as deep love being random. Maybe that wasn't the intent, after re-reading it.
Just wanted to demonstrate what had worked for me to rekindle intimacy. And that it was teachable.
The book "Conscious Loving" by Gay and Kaitlyn Hendricks is the book that talks about telling the Microscopic Truth. It's helped me tremendously.
I enjoy their newsletter a lot. They discuss in detail many of the concepts in their books. And it's free.
Relevant to this conversation -
Here's Why Sharing Your Emotions - Even The Messy, Angry Ones - Is Critical For A Great, Intimate Relationship
https://www.heartsintrueharmony.com/m/email/ar/truth-our-emo...
From Wiki:
> Ultimately though, as an explicitly "self-parodying" guru, Rajneesh even deconstructed his own authority, declaring his teaching to be nothing more than a "game" or a joke.
Perhaps that's why, as an atheist, I find him so fascinating - he covers a lot of genuinely useful and interesting ground (meditation, philosophy) while never seeming to take it too seriously.
In today's economy, even for the relatively well-off, home ownership is essentially a pipe-dream and it is much harder to put down roots of any kind.
The second the marriage becomes hard, it's a lot easier to break a lease than it is to break a mortgage.
Before she stopped talking at all, she also had a period that she spook gibberish. I learned to just pretend to understand her, assuming that she meant something positive with her attempt to say something. I learned to read her face instead of her words.
In the last year her eyes would usually be dull and only now and then there would be a spark of light in her eyes that would not last longer than a second. I never wondered whether she still recognized me. I assumed that the concept of husband did not mean anything to her anymore. I am happy that I still recognized her till the end, because I know that some people with Alzheimer's Disease will change so much in their behavior that relatives do no longer recognize them.
We will never know what your wife wanted to say. Maybe the words that came out of her mouth were not even the words she wanted to say. Maybe you should take the fact that she attempted to talk to you as a sign that she was happy that you were with her at that moment.
Thank you for giving us your thoughts. I hope to live up to the standard you set with the clearly towering love you shared with your wife. I'm dumb, young, unwise so I'll dare to presume: I am certain she would have told you how important you are to her, how much she loves you and how thankful she was that you shared your life with her.
Sorry, I try not to be emotional. Especially on a forum like HN where rationality and clarity of thought seem to be the M.O. Its impossible to imagine what you've gone through and what you're going through. I send you a huge, digital, hairy man hug my dude.
Thanks for the hug. It is much appreciated.
I choose to believe that your wife wanted to tell you how much she loved you and what a wonderful life she had with you.
Hugs from me and the dogs
A bit of family lore had it that when some distant ancestors of mine no longer could live independently in old age, one child took in the husband to live with them, and another child, quite distant from the first one, the wife. My mother, upon learning of that arrangement, exclaimed how hard it must have been for that couple to be separated in their final years, only to hear "Quite the opposite! They couldn't stand each other for the longest time."
> Having such a marriage in this day and age is truly a luxury, reserved only for the deepest of lovers.
> Having such a marriage is truly a luxury, reserved only for the deepest of lovers.
One contains a positive claim that something is worse now than it was before, which I think invites dispute and is entirely unnecessary anyway. It's a fine sentiment without the judgement.
I've encountered this sentiment, several times, lately. In my experience, any mention of a time before now, especially, when they find out that I am "chronologically-challenged," is met by a "Don't tell me about the 'good old days,' Grandpa!".
This day and age, seems to have established a culture of real, nasty, institutionalized, anger at previous generations. It is unlike what I experienced. Younger folks have railed against their seniors for all of human history, but now, it's personal.
I think I understand where a lot of the anger comes from. My generation has caused a lot of damage, and has exhibited almost awe-inspiring levels of selfishness. I'm pretty pissed, and I'm one of them.
But that ain't me. I have lived a long-ish life, and have developed a lot of experience and PoV, as a result. I'm a kind, unselfish person, looking forward to the future, and making the world a better place, for my having lived in it. Not all that is old, is bad. Much is not directly applicable to today's world, but should not be discarded, wholesale. In many cases, only minor adjustments need to be done, in order to make a viewpoint, technique, or philosophy applicable to today's world.
The story is a heart-wrenching one. I have many peers, experiencing a lot of these types of things (One of the things that happens, as we age). Not all of them are handling it as well as the author.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all of us are destined to become "boomers." Every. Single. One. Of. Us. No exceptions. The alternative kind of sucks. One day, we will all be where I am. That is what makes ageism so crazy.
I have been around long enough to watch some folks hoist by their own petard (a classic saying, BTW). They established a corporate culture, that eventually excluded them.
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news-in-pictures/news-briefly...
> My generation has caused a lot of damage, and has exhibited almost awe-inspiring levels of selfishness.
With respect, I think some self-reflection may be in order.
And you have no idea how much self-reflection is a fundamental aspect of my life. I challenge you to match it.
It’s entirely possible that some facets of the past were much better, e.g. today almost half of the US is obese, that certainly is a large change in 50 years…
It doesn't need to mean this.
We've got so much choice in how we structure our lives now.
Choice mostly makes things better. Lots of bad outcomes become less prevalent.
But some good outcomes become harder to find, and one can rationally have nostalgia for them.
Gah.
I apologize for this dumb thing aimed at you. I know it's not your fault. But I think this is what you're coming up against when people tell you not to tell them about the good old days.
My past is not really something I want to go back to, thank you very much. I prefer looking forward.
I also don't want it to be rancor. If you look at my commenting history, here, you will find very, very little, and what you do find, will be fairly mild. I'm a reformed troll, and feel that I must atone for being an arsehole of the first water, for many years. I know that I come across as "stuffy," but believe me, when I tell you, that the alternative is not pleasant.
But it is also important to understand that every person is an individual. This is something that I have to struggle with, every single day. It's very easy for me to be intellectually lazy, and dismiss whole swaths of people, simply because they tick one box of many.
I have fast friends, that I would never have had, if I had insisted that they meet my litmus tests. I won't engage them on certain topics, but I know that we have a great deal of mutual respect.
I participate in a community, that is ... eclectic. Its members are quite varied, and we have learned to put aside our differences in pursuit of a common goal. I really wish that the world ran this way, but it's difficult work. Really humbling, but also extremely rewarding. A central tenet is to be of Service. I like to think that I've done OK, here.
The article was written by an old dude that has been dragged through hell, but has also managed to do well for himself and his wife.
Believe it or not, I hear stories like this almost daily. Very few ever make it into the mainstream, and I am a truly privileged person to hear them.
Not all that is old is bad. Not all that is new, is good. The world has been damaged for a long time, and no one of us can fix it all, so we do our part to police our area.
I'm reminded of Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" lyrics. I believe he's trying to say that his generation (Boomers) did not start the shit show. It's always been there, with different details.