It's fine to disagree with the protesters, but at least be honest about what they want. They've been squeezed off online platforms and out of mainstream discourse, and this is what happens when it bubbles over.
I can certainly agree that humans tend to demonize the sins of the other while turning a blind eye to their own side's, but is that really what is happening here? To me it seems like this protest is of a different type.
My own image searches only turn up upside-down Canadian flags, "Fuck Trudeau" slogans, and stuff about "freedom". I'd have to think that if somebody really wanted to undermine them and had such a photo, they'd have posted it.
How bad is the reporting? I checked the NYT; https://archive.fo/Jny6X
It's not awful in any obvious way.
It does describe the protest as "mostly peaceful". As that phrase is a little notorious, I laughed a little. Since NYT staff spend a lot of time on Twitter, I imagine they know the significance. But hey, if it was peaceful and they said so, then they've done their job ok there.
The headline does have some negative connotations: The convoy "descends on Ottowa" (not, I dunno, "protesters gather to demand justice").
And there is one sentence that is incendiary enough that it really needs more context:
"Some of them carried Canadian flags upside down; at least one flag had swastikas drawn on it."
This invites the reader to draw one conclusion, but the meaning may be something else, as in my first paragraph.
So I'd have to see to be sure. But no photos are forthcoming.
There is no reason to ever allow Nazis to have any sort of freedom. We literally had a world war about this.
There's actually pretty large bounty to identify the person who was holding that nazi flag. The assertion is that this was not one of the protesters at all. Afterall the trucker convoy is quite diverse given so many truckers are Indian.
The CBC has been caught creating propaganda so many times: https://www.mississauga.com/news-story/7081133-opp-shuts-dow...
My favourite is this one: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/dear-qallunaat-white-pe...
Don't worry, the CBC clears says "racism against white people does not exist" right on that page. CBC is on the record they don't hire white people anymore: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian
—-
So far, the “peaceful” protestors have desecrated the national war monument and the Terry Fox statue, flown multiple Nazi flags and Confederate flags and large numbers of “Fuck Trudeau” signs, stolen food from a soup kitchen, assaulted and threatened reporters, thrown rocks at ambulances, smashed car windows, threatened anyone wearing a mask, defecated on the lawn of a house flying a pride flag, harassed mall workers so badly that they had to close the stores for their safety, blocked paramedics and health care workers from getting to the hospital, intimidated Ottawa residents so badly that many are afraid to leave their homes, and openly threatened to murder the prime minister and overthrow the government on the exact spot Cpl Nathan Cirillo was murdered defending the seat of government from a gunman.
They're not OK with trucks going honk honk to the point of entertaining the idea of military intervention.
The hypocrisy and contradictions is expected at this point but never ceases to amaze me.
In what world is this a working class uprising? It has no meaningful ties to any labour movement, and it’s stated goal seems to be to force Trudeau to over rule provincial — not federal — mask mandates. All because this disorganized, disruptive and aimless rabble believe wearing a piece of cloth on your face is the deeply offensive and tyrannical.
Has anyone actually been squeezed off online platforms for saying they are against mask mandates? I’d be SHOCKED if you could find any evidence to back that up. People HAVE been denied access to PRIVATELY OWNED social media companies because they spread hate, unfounded political conspiracies and worryingly misleading medical misinformation.
Surely you’re not saying that there’s significant overlap between these two groups?
This is why I'm skeptical of the push towards unionization I see of late. I'm from a working-class neighbourhood. I first heard about this protest on social media from high school friends who went into blue-collar professions. This is as grassroots and working class a movement as I've ever seen. But because it's not endorsed by major unions that have to negotiate with major employers, it's seen as 'not legitimate'. The argument seems to be that a labour movement needs a managerial class at the top or it's not really workers uniting. Ironically, the managerial class is somewhat besieged at the moment because it's possible to automate a lot of the organisation we used to perform, such as what is needed for something like this. Whether there's Koch brothers funding behind it or not, the Freedom convoy enjoys incredible working class support, to claim otherwise because it lacks 'officialdom' is an irony I hope we can all laugh at someday.
@yesenadam, any concerns about my wording?
how would you describe it?
Not masks, but I've been banned from most of Reddit for posting CDC stats about covid vaccines, questioning their value for younger people, and recounting adverse reactions in people I know, as well as questioning lockdown measures. I don't use any other social media.
> worryingly misleading medical misinformation.
Most of that worrying misleading information is now acknowledged to be "science" now- like the fact that the original vaccine does not make a difference between likelihood of spreading Omicron. Or getting banned for ascribing the Lab Leak theory, which is pretty much accepted as the most likely cause.
> In what world is this a working class uprising? It has no meaningful ties to any labour movement, and it’s stated goal seems to be to force Trudeau to over rule provincial — not federal — mask mandates.
If it were only about mask mandates, this protest would have occurred a year ago. It's about bodily autonomy and right to work. Just because no other labor movements seem to care yet, doesn't mean this isn't a labor issue. I understand that it's a provincial issue largely, but the federal employee vaccine mandates are just that- federal.
And people have an issue with the federal guidelines, and federal pressure on provinces to fall in line. Much like the Biden admin has been "strongly encouraging" illegal federal mandates, but simply penning them and waiting for courts to challenge them. And incredibly incendiary statements blaming the pandemic on the unvaccinated instead of a host of other more relevant issues like our always-at-capacity healthcare system.
And this is just conjecture, but people do suspect federal involvement in non federal matters. Trudeau, in his recent address from his lake house, has a portion of his speech not directed at us- the general public, rather he addresses other politicians in a really creepy, dystopian tone.
> 'think long and hard about the consequences of your actions.'
Either way, people are sick of the lockdowns and government overreach, none of which has been particularly effective, while simultaneously being detrimental, especially to those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Not everyone has the privilege of working from home.
I see it as a working class uprising. Trudeau called them a 'fringe minority' but such a minority also requires the military to remove them? They also need their funds frozen?
>and it’s stated goal seems to be to force Trudeau to over rule provincial — not federal — mask mandates. All because this disorganized, disruptive and aimless rabble believe wearing a piece of cloth on your face is the deeply offensive and tyrannical.
Mask manadates have been ongoing for 2 years. What's new is that on Jan 15th Canada's federal government made vaccination mandatory for truckers. Provinces are powerless here, CBSA is entirely federal. CBSA will be enforcing this rule mostly at the border.
So truckers who never even cross the border are still potentially subject to proving they are vaccinated. Though that's far less probable and on top of that a high percentage of truckers are fully vax.
If they're going to lock or delete an account (regardless of reason), there should be a requirement that funds are either paid to the benefactor or refunded immediately.
Edit: link: https://rumble.com/vtz6fg-freedom-convoy-2022-press-conferen... starts around 5:00
What it reminds me of is that 2014 standoff with the Bundy family on federal land in the US or farmers in France. Some groups can just do whatever they want apparently.
People may not agree with these guys, but being selective here means that other legimate causes may not get funded.
And I'm pretty sure that crowfunded strikes scare the shit out of some of the big boys since it takes away their leverage. They are gonna stomp this out at the first opportunity.
Also the biggest problem here is that the people fundraising weren't saying what they would do with the money, it's unclear if they were even part of the organizing committee or authorized to fundraise on their behalf.
so because there are trillions of dollars in crypto value already and many individuals already own that crypto, they would just collect from them to their own address or smart contract. websites just become GUIs for helping that and are also optional. then if fiat is actually desired for the cause, they can call any random trade desk and do a big order for fiat and have cash in the organization's bank account. for their supporters that don't already own crypto, it would be some friction for them to acquire it, but forget about those people and don't view how it would work from their perspective as the main perspective.
Then there's revenue loss for the businesses forced to shut down and wage loss for their employees.
Class Action Suit could rightfully clean out the GoFundMe.
Gofundme partially locked the funds because they don’t know who the benefactor is anymore (according to their official statement). Who gets the money? Does it just go to every person in the city with a semi truck or is it just going to some random person that we hope won’t take the money and run?
As for refunds, I would be willing to bet anyone that donated could go ask gofundme for a refund right now and get their money back. Sure they could mass refund everyone right away, but it seems like a bad policy to do a mass refund whenever the benefactor becomes unclear. It would be incredibly annoying to fund a huge project and the point of contact for the project quits and for all the funding to instantly get refunded.
It's a problem that is suspiciously one-sided, at least as far as 404ing/disabling the linked page, locking the account, and pausing donations while being resolved.
There are clear definitions, regulations, and penalties for operating as a dollar holding/ transferring financial institution.
Especially since the percentage paid as a fee makes it essentially a defaulted account, or at least a service not provided and funds not returned.
These types of donation accounts have a long history at brick banks of helping those in need (while taking a hefty percentage off the top). It's not a new idea.
I suspect it's more likely this isn't lack of regulation, so much as a loophole or stretched legal definition. Maybe someone here is familiar with their regulatory classification. You don't launch something like this without reasonably ensuring the feds aren't coming after you.
Regardless, i doubt people waving swastikas and demanding that democratic leaders be replaced with a dictatorship is exactly the type of "standing up to government" gofundme envisioned.
Kolfage was indicted, along with Steve Bannon and two other co-defendants, on federal charges of defrauding hundreds of thousands of "We Build the Wall" donors by diverting money that was raised to personal use. Federal prosecutors said that despite "repeatedly assuring donors" that Kolfage would not be paid, the defendants engaged in a schemed to pass $350,000 to Kolfage "which he used to fund his lavish lifestyle." Kolfage was separately indicted in May 2021 on federal charges of defrauding the IRS and filing false tax returns.
Expressing yourself is fine, disturbing public life because you don't get your will isn't. That's not how civilized societies resolve issues. This is now apparently a controversial take on multiple political sides.
Sounds awesome until I come to your place banging pots and pans all night and blocking your driveway, for an extended period.
As long as someone else is paying the price, standing on principle is easy.
And generally arresting looters and rioters seems quite popular on both sides of the political spectrum. They often didn't have anything to do with the protests, and were just taking advantage of the police being busy.
Edit: See my comment below for sources on homeless shelter
So every protest that has ever happened ?
If anything, the associated violence and demands of the protest are pretty tame in comparison to what the BLM or Indian Farmers protests demanded.
It is easy to dismiss the protestors because the reason for the protests sounds unimportant within our peer groups. However, a Democracy bestows equal rights onto people, and the validity of a protest is determined more so by its ability to be visible (the emotional fervor) than the merit of its points.
> Some groups can just do whatever they want apparently
Yep.
Ottawa, being the capital, gets two types of protests. The legal ones who get a permit have their route planned out in advance, and the police shut down the streets while the protest occurs. It's sort of like a parade. It's inconvenient and annoying, but no single street gets shut down for more than a couple of hours.
And it's not just the agreeable protests that get permits. They pretty much have to give a permit to anybody who asks for one.
For the illegal protests like the G20 occupation and when the indigenous people blocked a freeway exit, the police come in fast and hard.
> If anything, the associated violence and demands of the protest are pretty tame in comparison to what the BLM or Indian Farmers protests demanded.
Not in Canada.
edit: there's a third type of protest, the small ones. You're welcome to stand on the sidewalk with a sign and yell as long as you don't interfere with anybody.
Some level of discomfort is ok. Some is not. There is a line somewhere. Usually it involves the level of violence involved (terrorists after all are just making people very "uncomfortable" [what's more uncomfortable than being blown up] to achieve a political end.).
To make the ad absurdum argument explicit: if your argument for why this protest is ok applies to 9/11 to the same extent that it applies to this protest, maybe its a bad argument. That doesn't mean that this protest is neccesarily not ok, just that this is a really bad argument to use to prove the point.
Now they can’t drive away the <N> trucks in downtown Ottawa. You just exhausted all your leverage with them when you decided to throw the book at them.
You call a tow truck driver. They say “I don’t have a class 3 tow truck, there’s no way I can move a semi.”
You call a class 3 tow truck driver. They know they’re risking their reputation with the trucking industry, so they refuse. If they’re the trolling sort, they say they have COVID.
Now what? There’s a lot of mess to clean up, and you don’t have the equipment you need to do it.
Please, give me examples of what you'd consider "lawful" protests of any significance.
What makes it unlawful?
I'm not saying that they should be prevented from protesting (and I strongly disagree with that protest), just answering the question as to why this might be illegal.
The pearl-clutching about this protest has been something else.
I would say, just end those unlawful and unscientific vaccine mandates that have a detrimental impact on societies and businesses, so everyone can move on.
Could you elaborate on what makes the protest unlawful? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly
If all it takes to invalidate this human right is a couple agent provocateur's causing some violence. Then protesting is essentially illegal for everyone. That's not how it works. Which is also why the ottawa police are backing off and saying the military has to do it. The military backed off saying nope.exe.
>Can someone explain to me why this is tolerated and why these people are not simply being arrested?
It's a peaceful protest that has every right to exist.
>What it reminds me of is that 2014 standoff with the Bundy family on federal land in the US or farmers in France. Some groups can just do whatever they want apparently.
https://notthebee.com/article/come-and-laugh-with-me-at-the-...
Many great videos on there that make it abundantly clear that the media has quite falsely mislabeled this lawful protest. If I might make a suggestion, analyze your media source's bias. You seem to be listening to the yellow journalism.
This is why things like ConstituionDAO can happen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConstitutionDAO
If it’s good or not is another topic, but it is definitely possible to skip banks and other middlemen.
Activists take that discomfort w/ the status quo & advocate for concrete policy changes. Popular support often starts small & grows.
To folks who complain protest demands make others uncomfortable... that’s the point."
What about the losses because of lockdowns? Who will pay for those?
Still, violent rioters are everywhere. Sadly, in Europe we're already used to them. Any excuse is valid for them to destroy public property. Some of them are "professionals" and travel to any protest in Europe just to vandalize and destroy. Some of them get detained and identified.
Even if GoFundMe don't want to support this campaign they should refund all the unpaid donations back to the respecting patrons quickly with an apology.
In Europe several countries are already removing all restrictions and allowing people to live like it's 2019 again (Denmark[1], Finland [2], UK[3]...). Even in my southern European country are slowly removing them.
COVID-19 is evolving from a pandemic to an endemic disease. Stop pretending that countries will be able to remove all traces of it. We'll have to live with it from now and on.
Things like vaccination passes have been proven useless against the latest variants (Delta, Omicron). Vaccinated and non-vaccinated spread the virus the same. And also both groups get sick of Omicron (even if this variant is "milder" I don't recommend going through it).
Outdoor masking makes no sense since transmission at open spaces is really low. Only indoors or in dense crowds (concerts, really busy streets) masks make sense and work. But... Only the FFP3 or FFP2/KN95 [4] have a good protection (cloth, surgical masks have only a little effect). And that protection is limited in time.
Oddly enough, countries like Canada, Australia, New Zealand instead of removing all measures seem to double down on them.
[1] https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/denmark-eases-c...
[2] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finnish-government-remo...
[3] https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-pm-johnson-drops-covid-1...
[4] https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/q-a-what-...
> Either way, people are sick of the lockdowns and government overreach, none of which has been particularly effective...
How could you possibly know this? We don't have an alternate universe we can examine to see how things would have gone globally without public health measures.
> while simultaneously being detrimental, especially to those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Not everyone has the privilege of working from home.
Yah, I do fully agree that the public health measures pursued have had a negative financial impact on those more economically vulnerable who work in low paying jobs. But at the same time, these are the people who most need protection, as they don't have much job mobility and have to work on the front lines. You know what's worse than getting paid less? Dying from covid, or being unable to work because of COVID, or suffering the long-term effects we don't fully understand yet. I've heard so many horror stories from people working in grocery stores, etc, where there are mask requirements (In some cases, implemented not because of government legislation, but rather because the private businesses decide it's appropriate) that are routinely ignored by customers. These customers, when confronted, often become verbally or physically abusive (AFAIK there was a story about a security guard being murdered somewhere in the states).
Just FYI, I work in a customer facing job (onsite IT), and have been working in an office with a large number of people for almost the whole pandemic. I have to a wear a mask 8-9 hours a day. I say this because I don't want you to assume I'm arguing in favour of something that I won't be subject to.
That's not civil disobedience, at all.
That's just civil obedience.
- How many bulldozers do you have nearby?
- How many bulldozers do you have nearby that are on the government's side here?
- Where's your nearest hole or parking lot big enough to put a couple thousand trucks in, indefinitely?
- Who's going to pay for that? Your truckers are in jail, so you threaten to...jail them if they don't pay?
It's Canada, not Xinjiang. The worst they can do is jail you in a cushy prison for longer, with people who already counted the cost.
Perhaps you suffer from a false dichotomy. "You are not immune to propaganda."
All crypto is is a signature on a document. These documents are not guaranteed to hold up in court, especially when there isn't good case law around whatever you invented to get around existing laws.
“shills” to me are more like commenters such as rasengan, who is actively advertising his cryptocurrency-as-DNS nonsense whenever given the opportunity.
Could governments hypothetically not block those transfers/confiscate the wallets?
Again, speaking out of ignorance so forgive the dumb question.
More specifically there are some best practices that would prevent anyone, including a determined state sponsored adversary, from being able to seize or block this. Without the best practices there are some theoretical capabilities.
In any case, an organization like go fund me could not bow to corporate policy, public pressure, or a state backchannel, to prevent this.
So with or without due process, the people can still form capital and act.
(Not saying they were 100% peaceful,i know there was some unrest in montreal, but my understanding is it was quite minor and nothing like what you are describing)
No moral self-examination, disgust of the outgroup, arguing against private citizens' medical and bodily autonomy... does any of that sound familiar? What do you do when you realise you were the Nazi all along?
There is zero excuse for any group to put up with it.
What would it take for you to have an 'are we the baddies?' moment? Is symbology all that matters in that regard?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/la-hospita...
> While the sheriff's department said protesters at one point blocked entrances and exits at the hospital, no videos or photos confirmed that was the case.
[snip, most of the article about the shooting itself]
> Rather, video footage showed a handful of deputies standing in a driveway (apparently an entrance to the hospital’s emergency room), while the small group of protesters paced up and down a sidewalk feet away from them.
> At one point, deputies detained a journalist with LA’s NPR station, KPCC, who was reporting on the small protest, as well as a male protester who “refused to comply” with deputies’ demands to leave the area.
> The sheriff’s department said the reporter, Josie Huang, ignored deputies’ repeated commands and did not present “proper” press credentials. But she said and videos of her arrest show she didn’t have time or space to react to deputies orders before they shoved her and forcefully took her into custody. In one video, she can be heard shouting “I’m a reporter… I’m with KPCC” as officers push her to the ground. They cited her with obstructing justice, though KPCC is urging authorities to drop the charge.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/13/politics/supreme-court-va...
> In freezing a lower court opinion that allowed the regulation to go into effect nationwide, the majority sent a clear message the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, charged with protecting workplace safety, overstepped its authority. In contrast, the justices said that a separate agency could issue a rule to protect the health and safety of Medicare and Medicaid patients.
So they made an exception for healthcare workers in order to protect "the health and safety of Medicare and Medicaid patients". Patients are only protected by vaccination of healthcare workers if the vaccine is sterilizing, which is not the case (science).
Strictly speaking, SCOTUS erred in its decision (other vaccine mandates in the past _have_ passed constitutional muster), but that’s unsurprising given that there are no thoughtful conservatives on the bench. Even Scalia, one of the most ignoble Justices to ever serve on SCOTUS was smarter than any other conservative on the bench now and would _likely_ have disagreed with this decision. Most of the recent justices have no business being on the court either as wholly unqualified or because of unconstitutional abrogation of duty by the legislative branch under Mitch McConnell.
all modern causes are normal people on both sides with a few crazies because thats how populations work
Why is that less of a concern than the environment as a whole?
It's no more right to justify that than it would be to justify putting all of the country's debt on a single person or taking all of the pollution in the atmosphere but smothering individual children with it so that everyone else can breathe freely.
So we bring in huge ships with oil from the middle east that often run into trouble and spill into the ocean. The money we send allows dictators to force millions into slavery and prevents women from having basic human rights.
There are many reasons why a pipeline was preferable to the status quo
It would also create millions of American jobs and pour trillions into the economy with the increase in speed and quantity of shipping that can arrive for distribution, and curtail piracy around the Horn of Africa.
First, federal jurisdiction includes: mandating vaccine passports at the border, firing employees in federally-regulated industries that are unvaccinated, and preventing unvaccinated Canadians from being able to travel via plane or train domestically. There is also evidence to suggest that the Canadian government pressured the US government into implementing their own mandate on cross-border transportation to match ours.
Second, over 30% of Canadians polled support these specific protests, and over 50% of Canadians want to see an end to all provincial and federal mandates. In the face of omicron there is zero science to support vaccine passports or other restrictions, and frankly there never was.
Third, many vaccinated Canadians like myself are supportive of peaceful protests aimed at restoring basic charter rights even for those we might disagree with. I've always thought it disgusting that Canadians cheered on while unvaccinated Canadians lost their jobs or couldn't send their kids to university... this is exactly why minority rights are so important.
Finally, it's common for protests to occur in Ottawa about all manner of issues because it's the nation's capital. Suggesting that none of the protestors understand who has jurisdiction over what is false.
Amongst governments that have been driven by science and not by pseudo-scientific bullshit covering crypto-capitalist garbage (like New Zealand), the subsequent waves have been smaller and more contained—and they have _not_ returned to the levels of lockdowns required. What makes vaccine passports required are people who refuse to give the first damned care about their fellow citizens. AND THEY WORK. Vaccination appointment went _up_ when SAQ implemented vaccine passport requirements.
There are no charter rights being violated either by the lockdowns or by vaccine mandates. Your statement about "minority rights" is extremely disingenuous, as minority rights are not about people who _choose_ not to do something based on misinformation and disinformation, but on characteristics of who they are (skin colour, Indigenous, etc.), where they are from, the languages they speak, their gender and/or orientation, the culture from which they hail, and/or religions that they practice (and courts tend _not_ to pay much attention to any claim of minority status without historical evidence of discrimination against claimed minorities). The assholes in the Truck Tantrum are — by and large — WASPy conspiracy believers. They are the exact _opposite_ of minority, and exactly why they need to be laughed out of town.
I have no problem with them protesting. I also have no problem with laughing at them because they are claiming things which are demonstrably false and are whining over loss of privilege as if it were the same as real discrimination. People who _choose_ to be antisocial like the Flu Truck Convoy jackasses don’t get to claim that they’re discriminated against because society tells them to take a hike.
> legal ones who get a permit have their route planned out in advance
So the kind of protests that don't matter ?
A protest, by definition, is meant to display discontent from the masses because conventional means have failed. If a protest does not hit where it hurts, it isn't an effective protest. If shouting loudly worked, then twitter outrage would have been sufficient for pressuring the Govt. into accepting their demands.
A slight tangent, but this is exactly why I dislike 'permitted' or 'side walk' protests. You're walking down a pre-cleared street supporting an already popular movement with institutional support to show what exactly ? It reeks of the kind of slacktivism that has been memed to death over the last decade.
The people are clearly expressing their disillusionment with the overreach of the Govt. in terms of the intrusion of privacy permitted to the Govt. by law. If you are disillusioned by the system, of course you'd just extra-legal means to display your discontent.
Now, the Govt. ofc is allowed to react with force. If anything, I support removal of actively destructive protests with force. But, the current Canadian Govt. has supported far more egregious protests in the other nations (specifically the farmers protests and 2020 riots). So, I am enjoying a bit of schadenfreude seeing Trudeau get a piece of his own medicine.
10,000 people marching through downtown get lots of attention and they get heard. They shut down the downtown core for most of a day, and inconvenience a lot of people. They attract lots of media attention.
This protest is only 250 people.
The Federal demands they have are for our democratic government to resign and instill a dictatorship made up of people of their choosing...
Why the fuck should anyone listen to these people?
My original point stands, if you don't kick out a Nazi, your being absorbed into a Nazi movement.
[1] https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-homeless-shelter-staff-hara...
[2] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/31/canada-trudeau-deno...
[3] https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/police-say-ottawa-tru...
[4] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/31/world/canada/trudeau-truc...
Since this protest is making him look bad, I’d take what he says with a grain of salt.
I beg to differ. Any attempts to contain the mass violence were decried as "Trumpist fascism".
My former workplace hired outside therapists to attend to us people of color, and held special town halls and discussions. Meanwhile, I was losing sleep because the local strip mall was being looted, and I had to listen to gu shots all night. I spent one night sleeping on the floor of my living room with my guns due to reports of break-ins in my neighborhood.
Okay bigot.
It's very basic stuff here.
If they are having counter protests e.g.seperate protests within proximity but clearly distinct, then no.
If you're in a group and someone starts throwing stones at a cop, you help the cop get that person (at the very least by getting away from that person so you don't interfere with the cop). If you're in a group and a person joins the group and pulls out a Nazi flag, then you kick that person out of the group unless your group sympathizes with Nazis.
The Coutts border crossing and highway is currently blocked. This is in contravention of the Critical Infrastructure Act as highways are included.
After how many court proceedings?
Aside from that, I have lived in the approximate center of a moderate sized city (metro area of ~1 million) and noticed that there are occasional, authorized events that take over and prevent any and all traffic. Bicycle races for instance.
Assuming one isn't vehemently against a protest in the first place, debating blocking traffic boils down to the technical requirements for permits and coordination with authorities. It's only a shocking breakdown of public order if people strongly oppose the underlying cause.
I was just trying to show that the homeless shelter claim is beyond just random stranger on the internet ( he argubly is more credible than me however Low that maybe)
https://images.theconversation.com/files/443549/original/fil...
https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/CooperMain-900...
https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/Flags1-238x300...
https://albertapolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/Flags2-300x245...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKMstBjXsAcY0C4?format=jpg&name=...
https://i.cbc.ca/1.6173258.1631709823!/fileImage/httpImage/i...
The Gadsen flag for most people is a symbol of independence and freedom. Historically it was not associated with slavery, the confederate secession, or the civil war.
This[2] is one example how protesters react when they try to infiltrate the actual crowd.
[1]: https://twitter.com/stobione/status/1489320295764660228
[2]: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1488325761572478981
I haven’t followed this but have heard friends saying that Nazis are participating. I would expect that this means some Nazis were participating. But these images don’t show that.
The confederate flags just seem like jerks.
But yes, Nazis are getting involved with the anti-vax protests, on the same side as Trump, not on Science's side.
In Germany’s east, far-right extremists find footholds in escalating anti-vaccine protests:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/30/coronavirus-...
>While Kohlmann contends that Free Saxons is not an extremist group, German authorities say it is clearly so. The co-founder, Stefan Hartung, is a member of the district council for Germany’s National Democratic Party, a neo-Nazi party. Kohlmann professed to seek the return of the Saxon monarchy and independence for the state.
>He said the pandemic is an opportunity to reach more people. A “much broader range” of demonstrators join the weekly walks on Monday than anti-immigrant rallies.
>He doesn’t have to reach out to people, he said. They are coming to him.
>“It’s exploding,” he said of the group’s social media presence. The Free Saxons’ Telegram channel had 48,000 followers in August 2021, it has now grown to more than 140,000.
Also very far-right and nazis groups have joined the protest and were close to the organizers
https://www.antihate.ca/the_freedom_convoy_is_nothing_but_a_...
"Oh, everyone knows ipaddr! He hangs out with a bunch of Nazis that protest to entrench "born white" as the de facto ruling class of the country, kill all the gays and trans people, and to have two separate sets of laws, one that only applies to them, and one that applies to everyone else, but he's sweet as can be!"
No one is going to waste the brain power.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
It's weird how people want so, so badly to be in some counterculture. And to be "owed" something, in the moral accounting. That Green Day song plays in my head, with the music video: "I Want to be a Minority!"
I guess we sort of have a word for this, ressentiment? It's close, but not exactly.
Vaccine cards (I am vaccinated and boosted and would have done it based on my own decision making) feel significantly similar to me. As in Russia, when dealing with totalitarian aspects of government, I find it easier to just comply, but if I had more free time on my hands I would refuse to show the card on principle. Needless to say politicians advocating for these would never get my vote...
It's not odd to publish editorials from activists when a bunch of protests are going on. That doesn't mean everyone is on board.
The intent of swastikas in that situation isn’t pro-nazi or anti-Semitic.
I’m not sure what real Nazis in Germany being anti-vax has to do with our conversation. RFKJr is anti-vax too, what does that matter about this convoy.
I was trying to figure out if there were Nazis in the convoy. It seems like there aren’t.
Nazis were/are violent sociopaths who are a threat to people. They’re scary. People making nazi metaphors and deeply offending you aren’t a threat to people. That’s not newsworthy to me.
It’s like the people who think the Soup Nazi episodes of Seinfeld are deeply offensive. Because they compare delicious soup to Nazis. If TV guide reported that nazi paraphernalia was in those episodes it would be misleading. Seinfeld wasn’t pro nazi and there was no risk of them doing nazi things.
If the Nazi flag had Justin Trudeau's face on it I would instantly get the message that Trudeau is a Nazi not support for a group from a foreign country in the 1930s.
A nazi flag is a taboo topic with certain imagery attached. These protesters think Justin Trudeau has been acting like a nazi would.
You may agree or not but don't fail to understand the message.
Does this mean that you should be able to immediately end any protest you don't like just by going to it and then pulling out a Nazi flag when you get there?
Either way, confederate flags aren't normally flown in racist intent. Most people fly them to represent their heritage. The Dixie line, Outlaw country, etc.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a libertarian from deep Georgia fly both and not be racist in the slight.
I think you need to leave your bubble and learn about the people you are trying to demonize.
That may be an inconvenient truth for those who want to avoid its tainted history but it's definitely not nonsense.
Don't take my word for it -- feel free to peruse the selection at your local confederate flag dealer:
https://ruffinrebel.com/product-category/gadsden/
https://rebelnationok.com/page/2/?s=gadsden&post_type=produc...
Or show up to your local Klan rally:
https://contexts.org/files/2017/09/Charlottesville_-Unite_th...
If you want to fly a patriotic flag in the US, I'd suggest the American one.
That's what's beautiful about giving government arbitrary power that is so broad it is not always used "in reality" - it gives individual actors discretion to discriminate. Like with literacy tests to vote, war on drugs, etc.
Again, I'm not seeing the connection you're trying to make and if you want to see similar tactics employed by police in the USA, I recommend YouTube. The interesting part is I have a vaccine card and I've never been asked to present it. Then again, I was immunized to serve anywhere in the world when I joined the military and saw it as a perk when I travelled abroad.
This is just poor student level; I bet others paid much more, Moscow road police were legendary, although I didn't drive so cannot confirm.
That said I think it's a separate issue from unprompted ID checks, although one could facilitate the other.
