Connecting a gaming PC to Apple Studio Display(justin.searls.co) |
Connecting a gaming PC to Apple Studio Display(justin.searls.co) |
I don't get these articles or why you'd even buy one of these monitors for this case, even though I own one. I'd grab a random 144Hz 4k jobby instead. But I'm not a fan of punching myself in the balls over and over again for the hell of it.
So far with this monitor I've read pages of whining from people who shouldn't have bought it or didn't buy it. Everyone who should have bought it and did buy it seems quite happy. I know I am!
When all was said and done, the monitor I found turned out to have similar specs to the Thunderbolt display. Color reproduction, pixel response rates. Basically the same panel and driver. It was $100 cheaper than the Thunderbolt display, at the outside. But made of plastic. So I said fuck it, $100 for an aluminum exterior isn't that crazy, and I can pick it up today instead of dealing with UPS.
I just unplugged that monitor a couple months ago, and I keep trying to figure out if I can squeeze it back on my desk by rearranging some things.
Isn’t the webcam one of the selling points? I thought it was 12MP and supported center stage?
I don't want to be the Apple apologist here, but ... really?
And my (limited) understanding is that this is all on-spec; in practice you also have stuff like the power supply could be expected to deliver an off-spec amount like the Nintendo switch chargers and not work, etc etc
I'm all for repurposing things, so I don't blame them for attempting something most rational people would not bother. Been there done that, will attempt it again on something different.
But I actually really appreciate this comment. I'm just trying to have a decent monitor for work that I can also play games with sometimes in the evenings and would rather not have two monitors on my desk.
edit: Sounds like it does, but missing the additional features like audio.
So it was either get the big brother of my primary display (larger but lower ppi), or wait. Last fall they bumped that monitor to... I want to say better speakers and a uniform bezel (old model was fat at the bottom).
I really miss the speakers in the Thunderbolt display. Holy hell are people shipping bad speakers in some otherwise excellent monitors. I'm back to using external ones and dealing with the EM interference.
Commenters complain that it's 60 Hz but I don't know of an external interconnect that could drive that many pixels any faster.
HN is weird sometimes.
(I don't plan to buy this monitor either, but not for the reasons above. The LG 5K monitors are perfectly adequate for my needs. And like the post's author I was sorry to see target display go).
For what it's worth, it shouldn't be hard from a purely technical point of view to create a DisplayPort-to-TB adapter - all that should be needed is a Thunderbolt chip with a DP connector for input and a TB connector for the output.
The problem is Intel has had exclusive control over TB chips [1] and never released datasheets or made the chips otherwise widely available if you did not order a ridiculous MOQ and signed on for an expensive NDA and got their blessing to implement something like this.
Maybe we will see something like this in the next years, now that the TB spec is pretty much an open standard - eventually some third party will finally be able to develop a TB chipset.
[1] https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-motherboard-asrock-fir...
>I ordered one the minute that they hit the store in the hope I would receive what I thought I had purchased in 2014
One would think that he'd think twice before dropping that much money on a peripheral. Or at least do some research first.
That satirical video where the guy wishes Apple made books so he'd know what to think wasn't far off the mark.
I see why they do it: I bought an apple watch 0 figuring I'd get an idea of what the fuss was about and then buy v3 when they got it figured out. Instead, within the first week, I turned around on my way to work because I hadn't put my watch on.
OTOH I got an M1 ipad pro when it launched and ended up returning it and getting an air which was just as good for my needs. As it happens the pro had some hardware bugs anyway but if I'd liked it I would have just asked them to swap it.
When people were farting around with the “one cable to rule them all” a decade or so ago it seemed like a great approach at the time. I don’t remember anybody predicting this downside.
Displayport with DSC (Display Stream Compression) should be able to drive it faster than 60.
None the less, it's Apple. None of this sounds surprising, sadly.
In Apple's defense, the specs are pretty clearly laid out with the ports: https://www.apple.com/studio-display/specs/
So here is what I think Apple should add if they ever want to get serious:
1. An HDMI 2.1 port.
2. Basic Windows and Linux support
3. AppleTV built in. If you are going to add an a14 you might as well use it for something (I have this fantasy that they will unveil a 24 inch consumer targeted monitor introducing this feature). You then add the ability to use this as a nice small tv or computer monitor, but they will probably never do it.
4. For $1,600 it should really be 120hz or higher, but I imagine if they do introduce this the Pro Display XDR will get it first.
"If you just want to use the display and don’t care about the speakers, microphone, or USB-C ports, then by far the simplest solution is to just plug a high-bandwidth DisplayPort cable with a USB-C connector or adapter from your GPU to the Studio Display’s Thunderbolt port. No Thunderbolt cable is actually needed, as the display will happily handshake DisplayPort 1.4 alt mode when connected with a high-bandwidth cable."
So, number two is solveD?
3. I think this is a kind of cool idea, but totally unnecessary. It's a 'studio display', I like that it's focused on being one specific thing.
4.I'm 99% sure that 120hz is not possible. Another commenter posted this math:
"Does it use Display Stream Compression or something? Raw 5120x1440 x 240 fps x 8 bits x 3 colors = 39.55 Gbits/sec. DP1.4 has a maximum data rate of 25.92 Gbits/sec. DP2.0 on the other hand does 77.37 Gbits/sec.”
Also, the only other widely available 27" 5k monitor is the LG ultrafine, which is just a few hundred dollars cheaper. With the studio display, you get much better product design, a newer panel, really good speakers, a really good webcam, and better connectivity.
In CAD, the studio display is $1999, the ultrafine 5k is 1749$. If you don't think this is a 'serious' response to people who have been asking for a '5k imac without the imac' display, I don't know what to tell you.
I built an AMD gaming rig last year with a motherboard with a TB3 port built-in (one of the few AMD options to support this) but because of how it is configured (there is only one DP-in port on the motherboard and you need two of them over DP 1.2 to get a 5K signal), the LG 5K only outputs at 4K. All things considered, that was a fine trade-off.
But it looks like the new display is DP 1.4 (at least in theory), meaning I can at the very least use the adaptor cable to just get 5K signal, even if speakers and webcam don't work.
I wish all of this were easier and that Thunderbolt were easier, because it's such a great technology and it is frustrating we have so few options.
0: http://johnwilger.com/2019/01/27/lg-utlrafine-on-linux-gnome...
The same boy way to power a display of that resolution was over a dual link DVI connection which no PC consumer graphics card supported.
I ended up having to purchase an outrageously expensive CAD optimized card but the screen estate was absolutely worth it.
Plus I kept the display for a decade (and migrated to macs in 2006ish) only to replace it with a 27” retina iMac in 2015
Electronic ink has terrible refresh rates, but is great for reading.
Apple's displays can run at 24FPS, which is terrible for gaming, but perfect for editing 24FPS films and shows.
I spend most of my workday either writing code or editing video, for which this less-expensive (relative to Pro Display XDR) model is out-of-this-world PERFECT.
The sound is amazing and would be perfect if paired with a subwoofer. And despite terrible reviews, the built-in camera is just fine for video calls. I think a lot of people don't realize that people only look good on their own screen in video calls, because they are seeing their own video before it gets massively compressed to look just as bad as everyone else.
I solved this problem with https://www.delock.com/produkt/89582/merkmale.html?g=1112 . By a problem I mean connecting my monitor (DELL) via "thunderbolt" (it's actually usb-c dp alt) to desktop. I use my monitor as USB hub and I wanted to connect it with just a single cable (usb-c dp alt transfers both video and usb utils).
Driving it on a modern device with anything other than a powered active adapter (near $100 until recently apparently) just doesn't work. I went through a lot of adapters before I stumbled on a USB-C to Dual Link DVI adapter that actually does the job.
I've tried and tried but hooking it to my Xbox has proven basically impossible.
The hdmi ports only do 1080p and despite having a newer Radeon card with a DVI port I haven't been able to get that to work either (It must not be a dual link port?)
This is a 3007WFPT - it has for input Dual-Link DVI, VGA, component, S-Video (should give you an idea of the age) and Composite.
https://jdon.at/OwFuAV - image of the ports
I have an old 30 inch HP that I'm reluctant to replace, but dual link dvi isn't available on new graphics cards. And it'd be nice to hook up my mbp.
It's a 5 year old LCD screen, where given price it's reasonable to expect better dimming. It's outdated in color accuracy as it scores well on DCI-P3, yet poorly on AdobeRGB (86%). For normal monitors these are good values, but they fail to impress for studio work. Further, factory calibration is shit, the white point is far too warm.
Where Apple brags about "billions of colors", it's not a true 10 bit screen. You just can't trust a single thing they say.
It's only 60hz. It's not a gaming screen but I'm just looking for any feature, any at all, to justify the price.
It's intentionally consumer hostile. Not only will it not really work on Windows, it also doesn't have a single button, not even a power button. It's entirely software controlled, and that should make you anxious.
There's no HDR support at all. Come on!? This is no longer a niche thing, it's a core need for videographers.
The stands, both options, do less than the cheapest stand on any other monitor.
All of this fits nicely into their line-up of non-pro screens. Like the bigger Pro Display XDR, according to Apple comparable to Sony's 35K$ reference monitor. Except that it isn't. Apple's display is not uniform and blooms all over the place. It's not a bad pro monitor, it's not a pro monitor at all. It literally cannot be used for color-critical work.
But in general, this monitor, though it's impressive, does not have the features needed for gaming.
That being the case, I'd much rather trade away frames in exchange for improved image quality, as I'm doing in this case.
The author's use case for this monitor doesn't make any sense at all.
An apple fanboy would, apparently.
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/Pr...
The result of this built in magic is that a single USB-C cable leaves my PC and goes to my desk. At this point it terminates into a CalDigit TS3+ and sprawls out to all the devices on the desk.
I would be curious to see whether this motherboard could work directly with the studio display fully featured. Not that I expect it to be good, I expect Apple have added something so that the display only shines when connected to an Apple device.
You should be able to send audio over DisplayPort too, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple doesn't support that.
It's not a great experience having to plug multiple USB-C devices into my machine, especially in a WfH world. I'm going to end up damaging a laptop shuffling things around at some point.
Ah well, plenty of other displays available. There’s no real reason to buy a Apple Studio Display for 1600$ for a PC, as there are plenty of other great displays for that price. I got a 27” 4K 120Hz HDR1000 G-Sync display for that amount (Acer ConceptD CP7 / CP7271 or something).
Sure, it’s not 5K, but other than that is is a great display and doesn’t look “gamery”. It uses local dimming for HDR and gets really bright. Looks really good!
The all-USB C aspect of the monitor was fine when I only used it with my Macbook, but made it terribly painful to use with anything else.
In the end I found a HDMI to USB C dongle which worked, also included a plain USB 2.0 cable for audio.
Apparently I was ‘lucky’ to have the 4K rather than 5K, because, from my research at the time, nobody knew of any dongles or cables that would support the latter at full resolution (I think this is the same issue as in your article)
It might be similar to the Apple Developer Transition Kit from two years ago, which was an A12 with extra GPU power. But until someone can get software actually running on it, will be hard to know.
The ability to run something and have it be preformant are two completely different things.
MacBook runs a little slow but it’s more than enough for word processing and web browsing.
I'll never understand why the display industry went went with 720/1080/4k/5k etc. (And the camera industry with another, but I digress) — but:
4k: ~8.3 megapixels
5k: ~14.7 megapixels
That's a huge difference in resolution.
I use a DisplayPort and USB KVM switch to comfortably switch between my gaming PC and Mac mini.
Both PC gaming and Mac work in 144Hz, PC also with G-SYNC.
It is a pretty unique display. Too expensive for my taste but I wish there were other 5k / 27" options. And no, 4k on a 27" display isn't even close, primarily because you'd give up a lot of screen real estate with macOS' recommended 2x scaling.
They all follow interoperability standards that have been around decades and that customers have come to expect as normal. Vendor lockin here isn't an "innovation" customers want
But it's resolution is quite high. At this resolution, I think there's only one other monitor, the LG Ultra Fine 5k is which is like only $200 cheaper.
I think for people that care about resolution/pixel density, this monitor has basically zero competition? There's plenty of lower resolution monitors with higher refresh rates.
The LG has its problems. It’s kind of wobbly, cheap feeling, and the USB-C ports can fail over time from strain/use. The extra $200 for the quality and features of the Apple display sounds reasonable to me given that benchmark.
Is it expensive in absolute terms? Yeah. The LG is too. But it’s those two options or step up to the Pro Display at $5k.
$300 cheaper and 8 years old now, so likely can find used examples if you wanted. It's pretty clear that 5k / 218ppi just has no significant market appeal at this point outside of the Apple ecosystem. There were a few other 5k displays, but they've all packed up since (including LG, they don't make that 5k Ultrafine anymore afaict)
Although arguably since the LG comes with a height adjustable stand it's $700 cheaper than the Studio Display 27"
In fast paced games the difference between 4k and 5k is going to be barely noticeable, but the higher framerate will be pretty a pretty obvious improvement (both because of the higher refresh rate, and because the GPU can run the game faster at the lower resolution).
I think even if you only have a 60hz monitor it'll compare 60 vs 30, you should be able to see a difference between them.
I have mine at 180hz and it's extremely easy to track horizontally moving objects at 180hz, and it's almost impossible to see anything in the 30hz content.
The easiest test: move the mouse cursor in a circle repeatedly. The trail at 60hz will complete the full circle, while it will be barely visible at 120/144hz.
The problems are…
- Very, very few Nvidia or ATI cards have USB-C video out. They seemed to stop caring when VR failed to take off a couple years ago.
- So you're left using DisplayPort-to-USBC — but have to find a high-bandwidth DP 1.4 cable. Many of these are incorrectly marked or advertised.
- HDMI to DisplayPort/USB-C is a whole other game I won't cover here.
- even with the DisplayPort working, you cannot control screen brightness or get audio without a USB signal
- which can be solved with some very esoteric Wacom and Belkin VR devices
- but which appear to not run a fast enough USB spec to be useful with the new Studio Display due to all its A13-driven weirdness
- also some setups may require a USB signal to even turn on? I'm a little unclear on this mark.
I've been through several of these hoops trying to get the earlier, TB-only LG 5k working with anything beyond a MacBook, so I've been watching these discussions with interest.
- Yes, plenty of people including USB-C advocates like Benson Leung really wish NVIDIA didn't drop it for the 30-series. Most new laptops have an appropriate port, however, and probably at least a quarter of new motherboards.
- A low bandwidth cable should work; if link training appropriately trains an HBR2 link then it should light up at 4k60 (or 5k60 if DSC is supported.) The more likely issue is that his original cable was one of the majority of USB-C -> DisplayPort cables that is unidirectional in the wrong direction. They only advertise USB-C -> DP, after all.
- The internal webcam and speakers are connected to the USB 2.0 bus; you can verify this in System Profiler on a Mac when connected via Thunderbolt. Whatever is going wrong with the Wacom link is not because USB 2.0 doesn't have enough bandwidth.
iPads are now TB devices.
When you're working with 4K images and video, that’s enough space for video editing tools on the side and timelines at the bottom, all while viewing "UltraHD" in its full, unscaled beauty.
Until you've experienced what it's like to use a 5K (or even 6K, which will really spoil you), it's hard to appreciate why 4K is insufficient for many professionals.
Regardless multi-monitor setups exist and are well supported, so it's not hard to get both a 4k preview at 1:1 scaling and have plenty of room for controls by just running 2 displays.
It'd be nice to have it all - 5k, >60hz, and a decent HDR support. Even just 90hz would be a good improvement, but 120hz gets you zero pulldown for 24fps video! But alas that display doesn't exist. This display doesn't seem to really strike a good balance of what's achievable, it feels like a stop gap placeholder for the now canceled 27" iMac
Reading VSCode off this monitor feels like reading analog text on paper. It's amazing for eye strain. Really doesn't feel like you're staring at a screen all day.
This seems more like a moral panic than a true compromise of the functionality of the monitor.
Also, would that monitor you linked be good for office use?
Sounds like it shipped with some last-minute firmware bug that degraded the image quality way below what it's capable of. Should be fixed by a firmware (iOS?) update.
[1]: https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27MD5KA-B-5k-uhd-led-monit...
Would you use a Maple Ridge (TB4) card instead of Titan Ridge?
I am impressed with Apple's ability to seamlessly handle all of these scenarios. Their product integration really does create a great experience within their ecosystem. I didn't expect my setup to work perfectly but I'm happy it gets most of the way there. I'm not pulling the trigger on Apple Studio Display but I'll be watching progress to see if it works.
My use case is an outlier, I guess: I'm in the Apple ecosystem for all personal stuff but use a Dell Latitude for work (TB3, GPU chokes on 5k but technically works) and have a beefy Windows desktop for gaming and personal development work in WSL. I love the idea of just plugging a single cable into whatever system I'm using at that moment.
I even prefer using a high refresh-rate screen for office and coding use. I notice it a lot by dragging / moving stuff and scrolling.
I was talking about using it with a PC, and I stand by what I said for that. >60hz is way too good.
You mean the PC ecosystem. Microsoft did not design the specs for USB, TB and DisplayPort.
Still, I'd much rather have this ecosystem "mess" that's more or less open and has healthy competition with a variety of solid options, rather than an ecosystem where stuff mostly just works but is 100% proprietary and locks you into a walled garden designed for rent seeking, planned obsolescence and e-waste generation (i.e. Apple that sells monitors with non user removable power cables attached to them).
Many people can't perceive that LED flicker either (or before that, fluorescent light flicker), while others can.
I'm a huge fan of the RTINGS monitor reviews, which measure backlight flicker and identify which monitors do and don't have it, because I can notice that flicker and it gives me a headache.
I'm starting to wonder if vector formats and layout engines need pixel hinting capabilities, like font formats already do. As far as I'm aware browser engines already have to hack in these sorts of layout tweaks to avoid, say, float-based layouts collapsing into multiple lines at odd zoom percentages. Apple's insistence on integer scaling ratios is noble, but it also renders the display part of their hardware ecosystem an island.
For sim games the difference would still be noticeable and welcome, yet not dramatic as racing.
Bottomline: try 120Hz if you can.
I have reached the point where even the desktop feels sluggish at anything under 120hz.
Saying 120Hz feels sluggish is also confounded since the mouse / keyboard have 8ms lag unless you use a gaming one or manually change the polling rate, and games and desktop implementations all have variable input lag up to 100ms or some crazy number. Whether your desktop has vsync is another variable.
None of this of course changes the fact that input lag on a monitor should be zero aside from the pixel transition period.
When it was released, the 27MD5KB wouldn’t boot reliably as the Mac Mini’s only monitor on whatever macOS was out at the time, so I couldn’t consider it a valid display for a Mac. No doubt it’s fine for PCs though.
This is the standard that was implemented into cards for a couple years in the hopes it would result in headsets that connected to a computer with single cable. Compatible headsets never materialized so the port disappeared
And we also only have a few high budget/tier games that are made for VR (arguably, only HL Alyx)
The Quest isn't really relevant here, and it's also extremely heavily subsidized.
It is by no means mainstream.
It is just 60Hz, so you might not want to use it for gaming, though there are higher refresh TVs out there these days. Of course you have to dig through the marketing fluff to see if they are a true 120Hz panel or not.
But yes when I have the option I tend to choose the smaller UI settings too.
If you're looking for specifics, I recommend: https://www.rtings.com/
The one really nice thing about this monitor is the built in KVM switch. That's so bloody useful I ignored a lot of other things.
A direct reply to that tweet shows the Apple documentation stating that they consider it non removable by the end user
https://twitter.com/aaron_bukovsky/status/150500134118950502...
It required significant force to disconnect it first time but then it goes out and in as expected.
The thing is that it's not about what you think the product should be, because the product won't morph itself into your desire. Just because there are 100 variations of the same monitor out there are all behave nearly the same (And might as well be condensed into 1 version with 2 bezel color options) doesn't mean that that is all there is to it.
The ECU in your car uses the same SoC as the ECU in a truck. But that doesn't make your car a truck, or a truck your car. Just because there are technical similarities doesn't mean that therefore the products must be the same. If a manufacturer decides to focus on some form or function and simply not make other forms or other functions, that simply means that what you wanted and what the product is do not match, and therefore you should either not buy the product, or adjust your wishes. Since the latter isn't really required, not buying the product, but buying a different product instead seems to make the most sense to me.
Trying to make yourself the center of the universe and complaining that 'they should have made what I wanted' neither helps you nor does it help interaction with other people. Pick the product that you want instead.
This is a monitor and I want it to work as a MONITOR where is the rocket science here ? I don't think I could see someone defending Linux exclusive monitors, then why are some people defending apple's inability to make a monitor this expensive behave as such ?
Trying to dilute what a thing actually is makes no sense, especially if you're essentially then trying to boil it down to the $100 category of computer monitors for home web browsing usage.
Technically a display panel, row and column drivers, a tcon and an interface buffer is "a monitor" too. So is a CRT. And a DLP screen. But they are not the same thing and are not useful in the same scenarios.
And while I acknowledge that Apple made a trade off for pixel density, they weren’t forced to make tradeoffs for other features that are common on high end monitors.
I have a Mac. I also have a work-issued PC. I have both machines connected to the same displays, and switch between them.
DisplayPort isn't some obsolete technology here. I understand why this display doesn't have HDMI, or DVI, or VGA, or Composite, or S-Video, etc. But DisplayPort would be nice.
Buy the Apple monitor, be impressed, buy the Studio to go with it.
I might just get rid of the monitor. I'm not convinced I loved it for my workflow anyway compared to 2 monitors where I can switch my Mac workspaces independently
Everyone: Yeah, not particularly common, nor do they really add much.
PC gamers specifically (and series/ps5 now too, with those consoles supporting 120hz with compatible tvs and games): Quite popular, and they do significantly add to the gaming experience.
The banwidth for 4k at 60hz is only now becoming mainstream.
That means when I bought my current laptop, still under the 3-year warranty, I would have had to get something worse to get HDMI 2.0 support, since I compared everything available.
IME even non-techies find 30Hz uncomfortable to use.
Definitely not my thing too, I'm all in for 120Hz, but it does have some niche uses at 30Hz.
To be clear, Display Stream Compression is different from Chroma Subsampling[2], which the parent referenced.
https://www.cablematters.com/blog/DisplayPort/what-is-displa...
Which yes, means that a hypothetical 6k120 could be done at the same compression level as current 6k60 by using both HBR2 streams that a Thunderbolt 4 host port is required to support.
I have the M1 Max 14”, and also bought the XDR around a month ago for the extra 6k screen real estate. One thing I noticed is that I can’t figure out what pixel depth it’s running at on my M1 (intel shows 30 bit framebuffer in System Report, M1 shows nothing). SwitchResX software is reporting that it’s running in “Millions of Colors” (8 bit), but I’m not sure if that’s true. The same setup is reporting Billions of Colors on an intel MacBook.
It overall seems to be there’s things missing for the XDR <-> M1 interactions :S
So are D-sub connectors and HDMI. Should it have those as well? What about S-Video? Composite?
> they weren’t forced to make tradeoffs for other features that are common on high end monitors
They don't sell any products with DisplayPort connectors, nor do I think they've ever done so (certainly not recently). Selling a product with that connector is a commitment on some level to supporting what people plug into it, and as demonstrated by the OP, PCs are not really supported. It's also more engineering effort, but that's probably marginal.
This is a standard connector with cheap cables that adapt it to legacy devices using the DP alternate mode of USB-C. Apple are known for getting rid of legacy connectors. USB-C is a superior technology, it's only a matter of time before it's used for everything, and I appreciate Apple's efforts to hasten that day.
This is apparently true, and it's baffling. I was able to pick up one of the now-discontinued 5k PC displays a few years ago, and it's fantastic in Linux and Windows with 2x scaling.
You'll likely see 8k as the next common step up from that (it's already happening with TVs). Who knows, maybe we'll have this same conversation again then because Apple will release a 9k display at that point.
I would not expect any Windows users to chose this display unless they are the few who would make the same quality vs price choice that an Apple customer might.
That's a pretty elitest take that doesn't really hold up to any scrunity at all. Other than the resolution, this is a pretty mediocre quality display. At this price point there are no shortage of displays with much better overall image quality, other than the resolution. You're paying for that 5k in more ways than just the price at checkout. Even within Apple's own ecosystem it's pretty weak. It's bigger than the display on the MacBook Pro you're probably docking to it, obviously, but it also looks way, way worse than the display on that MacBook Pro.
The resolution is the essential feature of this display. And it's an important one due to the way macOS handles scaling. You basically always want to use 2x scaling in macOS. On a 4k / 27" display (which are ubiquitous) that results in an effective screen real estate of 1080p which makes the UI feel too large and cramped.
One of the bad qualities of the LG UltraFine was it's stand was not very stable and prone to wobble. I had one.
> Trying to dilute what a thing actually is makes no sense, especially if you're essentially then trying to boil it down to the $100 category of computer monitors for home web browsing usage.
Are you saying that this is a super duper monitor that no casual should use, or that this is an all-in-one PC?
If you're working in a professional video studio, chances are you're probably going to encounter 24fps video. So yeah, still matters beyond gaming.
Until they get so blurry that reading glasses are obligatory. And then, suddenly, everything is sharp again and that hi-dpi is nice :)
> One problem with high pixel density is that you either have to scale everything up
The bad news is, as a Windows user, very few apps support scaling (aka DPI awareness).
For larger displays, ex: 49" with 5120x1440, you'll take full advantage of every pixel without scaling.
Completely false. I've forgotten the last time I encountered an app that wasn't super ancient and didn't support fractional scaling on Windows 10/11. Sometime in 2017 I think.
That is not true in my experience. Also, for those who don't support it (which by default look blurry) you can enable it in compatibility options and it will generally work well.
Type C is one of the standard interfaces for the Displayport standard, and Displayport is the standard video transport on a thunderbolt cable.
Yes, it's confusing. But it's also a good thing as you can carry lots of stuff over the same cable and connector. A USB-C type cable and connector can carry USB, Thunderbolt, DisplayPort, HDMI, even analogue audio.
Before USB-C, Thunderbolt was using mini-DisplaPort connector and cables.
Everything on the product page suggests it was only designed for Mac: https://www.apple.com/studio-display/
That it happens to work on a PC at all is, I guess, an unintentional side effect that they'd rather not even acknowledge. You can try it unsupported but it's not their problem...
They've never been good at supporting standards not invented there. Hell, ever tried to use a Magic Mouse with a PC? Everything about it feels completely off. Part of me wonders if subtle incompatibilities, where hardware works 80% of the way, is maybe even part of their deliberate strategy to introduce small headaches to the PC experience to frustrate you into switching.
(Of course OSX has its own share of frustrations too, but nothing like using PC hardware on a Mac or vice versa).
All of these are pathetically small numbers compared to the >400ppi we all carry in our pockets, though.
That may be your opinion. I'd say it's downright terrible.
There's also a term for audio, but I forgot the exact terminology.
Things like this is applying lossy compression carefully with lab test on real humans to claim that under an A/B test an average human would not discern the difference.
But it still doesn't mean it should not be taken with a grain of salt. In any case, it is objectively inferior (and subjectively might not matters.) On top of my head one thing I'd question is generation loss (but if I am serious in the market of this kind of display I should study more carefully what their claim really is.)
But this is enough a technical detail for anyone to say "they only achieve XxY resolution at Z FPS with DSC" because the theoretical bandwidth isn't there and make do with lossy compression.
For most of what developers and even graphic designers do, 120 MHz refresh rates aren't required. People who need high refresh rates on large screens already know that and are prepared to spend the money necessary.
Non-curved 60Hz monitors are a thing of the past they should be relegated to monitors that cost 200$.
Obviously it’d be amazing if what you said is true, because both retina and HRR are very nice to have
Every ginormous “4k2k” or whatever display is just that: ginormous, so the actual pixel density is much lower, and is comparable to a typical (smaller, 1440p, etc) display.
I suspect this is because the fabrication of the LCDs is tuned to a particular pixel size, so if a company wants to make a 4K monitor, they scale existing LCD production up to a large enough size that they can get it 2160 pixels tall (by however wide), and that’s the size of the display. They can advertise having both a large display (which people like) and 4K (which people like), so there’s no downside to the manufacturers.
But if you want actual high pixel density, 200+PPI, your options are basically an Apple monitor (LG’s apple-sold display notwithstanding), or a smartphone.
(I’d love to be proven wrong on this! My holy grail monitor is 200+ppi, 120+Hz, large (27”+), and ideally ultrawide, but alas, such a thing doesn’t exist.)
- fast pixel response (CRTs are close, but the light to dark transitions fail)
- strobing, or a refresh rate that is high enough such that there is no blur (240Hz still doesn't fix this)
- at least 100Hz or so (perhaps only because I haven't used stuff over 144Hz enough yet)
- non glossy without grainy artifacts
- retina pixel density
- no viewing angle issues
- *at least* as good contrast as a 90% dead CRT I got in the trash
- no bloatware in the monitor or whatever they do that adds tons of input lag for no reason
- no local dimming type artifacts that (obviously) local dimming causes, but more importantly what the alpha OLEDs have
- low minimum brightness. most LCDs even at the lowest settings are far too bright
- the option of warm color temperatures
- perfectly flat screen, and pixel sharpness, for the sake of being fair (but the latest CRTs almost pass)
- no backlight bleedThere are plenty of 13" 1440p laptop panels being made. You just have to mate 4 of them together to make a 26" 5K display and yet this isn't done. Hell, I'd just settle for someone selling 13/15" 1440p/4K panels in a cheap, thin bezel enclosure with a VESA mount on the back for $250 - $400 a pop and I could make my own 5K/6K display for cheaper than what they're selling for.
edit: in case anyone knows, I see this monitor "requires two DisplayPorts" for full 8k. Does anyone know if I can plug two display ports into a docking station, and one cord out of the docking station into my 14" m1 mbp? Ideally this would also charge the mbp. Is this possible? If I were to buy such an expensive monitor, I really only want one cord.
That said, the easiest way to get this working is probably to get one of the TB->PCIe expander chassis and plug in an external GPU and let it drive the display.
Desktop PC's/workstations still have their place, and driving multiple high resolution monitors is one of them.
PS: Been drooling over that monitor for the past couple years as an upgrade to my dell 5K's I picked up when apple released their first standalone 5k monitor and more than a few high end mac users apparently ebay'ed their dell monitors to get the apple version. Their loss, my gain... :) Hey apple, why don't you release a 8K monitor? Lol.
(PS: There are a couple other manufactures putting that panel in monitors (viewsonic for one), so its not just dell, and a bunch of 8K tv's if you want higher resolution).