USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)(overengineer.dev) |
USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)(overengineer.dev) |
It's worth mentioning that buying the same hardware from a reputable company is not always pointless. At USB 3's data rate, power and signal integrity are a serious concern, stability of the hardware is often sensitive to PCB layout. There are numerous pitfalls to shoot yourself in the foot and they are often not obvious at all. Even with exactly the same chip, or even the same circuit connections, a tiny layout change can be a life-or-death issue.
For example, any change to the data line geometry, such as a connector or capacitor soldering pad, introduces unwanted impedance discontinuities to the transmission line and degrades signal integrity. The best design carefully adds or removes copper around these discontinuities to compensate for the impedance change, on the other hand, it may not be a problem if you are lucky. Nevertheless, to truly ensure the design is not just borderline working but has guaranteed stability, it must be verified by testing, using Time Domain Reflectometer, Vector Network Analyzer, and/or inspecting the actual signal on an oscilloscope using the eye diagram.
Similarly, an incorrectly-bypassed power supply may cause random crashes. Such a bad power supply is easily created. For example, if two capacitor values are combined, at some frequency, the parasitic inductance of the first capacitor resonates with the second capacitor, forming a parallel LC circuit and can create a huge spike in the power supply impedance. If this impedance peak happens to be close the operating frequency of a subcircuit, it creates a serious noise problem. A good design would take these into consideration and ensure the power supply impedance is always below the specified target impedance throughout the frequency spectrum. Again, it may not be a problem if you are lucky, but only proper testing can confirm that.
A reputable company is more likely to validate the design, run a full compliance test, and pass the product certification before start selling this device. Meanwhile a no-name vendor sells whatever that powers on, often without regards to signal integrity, especially when you consider that an oscilloscope capable for testing USB 3.2's eye diagrams need a 10 GHz+ real-time bandwidth and costs up to $10,000. I'm not saying that buying from a reputable company is foolproof - it is not, you see sloppy work from time to time, but the chance of getting a tested system is higher.
If you just want stuff that will work and be supported I just go there.
I also bought usbc-to-hdmi cables instead of dongles and am very happy with both of these decisions. Everything works a lot better now.
[1] this one: https://plugable.com/products/tbt4-hub3c
Most work fine for a minute and then after a few months seems to get cranky and some input will start failing :/
Currently using that Anker hub mentioned. Probably the best of the bunch but that's not saying much. Lots of little annoyances.
One thing I found was putting the low powered USB A devices on a smaller hub "stick" that's USB-C and daisy chained to the Anker one. This has been the most stable setup.
But usually about twice a month stability will wane I'll have to unplug everything, restart computer and then plug them all back in one by one.
I had the same initial hub as the author, and like the author, it died. I think it was branded UGreen or something. I've currently got a Baesus. Likely it's all the same trash.
I had a Dell USB-C dock last year which worked quite well, but it's a chunky thing that isn't great for travelling.
I wish there was a similar guide that ends with finding a product that actually performs. It would be great to see Apple or something try to address this issue without having to buy three dongles.
I gave up and spent a couple hundred dollars on an ALogic dual-thunderbolt connection dock. Two wires, not one, but perfect for my MacBook. It's been flawless, even after a year (most of the cheap docks I used died after 6 months).
From what others I've spoken to, and myself have worked out, the only "solution" is to spend hundreds of dollars on the high end ones. They seem to be far more reliable (and have better support if something does go wrong).
CalDigit is what most have moved to. My ALogic one is still kicking, so I'll stick with it for now.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074DRW84M
It worked flawlessly so when I needed another two years later I didn't hesitate.
I'm using both right now to power my MBP (2018 13"), connect some peripherals and two external displays. Has been working flawlessly for years. I took it for granted. From this article and comments, looks like I got really lucky.
Looks like they don't make them anymore. I should have picked up a few more.
After two years, I'm now on my third hub. The second one was made by EUASOO and it died not being able to pass power through from the USB charger (it also wouldn't let the Mac boot when it was plugged in!). The first one (that I can't find) never really worked at all. The third one is branded OMARS and has survived maybe a month. On the plus side, it does actually let the Mac boot.
It's possible this is because the closed lid keeps heat in. I've also heard that using any external display requires the laptop to use its discrete GPU, and this generates additional heat.
Either way, it's pretty annoying because the laptop starts throttling itself with very modest usage.
I embraced the two-plug paradigm and now use an Anker USB-C adapter _without_ power pass-through. It has worked well with both Windows and Mac laptops. Admittedly, I would not notice if ethernet capped at 300 Mbps.
From Amazon? What are the odds that they were actually Satechi?
Docking Station, 18in1 USB C Docking Station for Windows/MacBook Pro/Air/Thunderbolt 3 Dock with SSD Enclosure 3 HDMI DP100W PD3.0 RJ45 SD/TF Card Reader Audio&Mic 5 USB Ports.
The decision of Amazon to allow foreign sellers directly on their platform really degraded the quality of their offerings overall. While I understand they had to to stay competitive with other retailers, the race to the bottom on some of these offerings is making me care about brand names more than I ever expected to.
https://pine64.com/product/pinebook-pro-usb-c-docking-deck/
I'm currently using the PinePhone USB-C dock with my Macbook but I don't think it has Gigabit ethernet, but I don't have a cable wired up to my room still so I mainly use it for HDMI and USB type A ports.
First was a Satechi, which overheated and broke just past a year which was the warranty period. I left a bad review on Amazon, and they replaced it. That one broke... just past a year.
Work then gave me another brand that I forget, and those too lasted only a year each or less.
I've finally settled on having two Anker Hubs and splitting the amount of cables going into each.
Sure, it also uses an RTL8153, and might need the Realtek drivers to work (out of luck if you are on macOS 11+) but it was the first USB hub that I used forever, where everything just worked.
I don't use it for PD, I don't trust that on any hub.
The USB logo! Because the device would have to comply to have the USB logo printed on it.
That's not much of a guarantee, as it is easily counterfeit, but still better than nothing in this abyss of low-cost high-price devices.
I'd buy it in an eyeblink, from whatever shop the author prefers me to use.
Many of these docks and Apple support documents say they support dual displays at 4K resolutions, but it's difficult-to-impossible to find information on # of displays supported at lower resolutions.
The longer answer is that you might be able to, depending on resolution/refresh. This will need both hardware and software for "DisplayLink". I've never kicked the tires on this setup, but I believe it's basically setting up a single frame buffer that will span two physical devices.
Hardware: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/m1-mac-dual-displayport-a...
Software: https://www.synaptics.com/products/displaylink-graphics/down...
IMO it isn't very viable, especially once you're past 60hz HD resolutions, and also because the macOS drivers/software sometimes lag behind major OS releases or even point releases.
I hang a 4k@144hz and two 1440p@144hz screens off an M1 Max. It's basically one monitor per cable at that point (docking is two Thunderbolt + HDMI). One TB cable goes to a CalDigit TS3+ for power, USB accessories, and one of the 1440p monitors. The other goes straight to the 4k monitor.
One question to clarify your setup -- So the 4k monitor is connected directly to your mac with a thunderbolt cable, one of the QHD monitors is connected directly to your mac through HDMI, and the second QHD monitor is connected through the CalDigit dock?
If you don't mind, can I ask why not just connect both QHD monitors through the CalDigit dock?
+ Belkin's thunderbolt dock - Ethernet is a mess and takes down my network switch when my macbook goes to sleep. This seems like a common issue. The fix is to "unplug ethernet when putting laptop to sleep".
+ Anker's bigger usb c dock - actually this one works for me, though I am using it with an XPS 15.
+ The spouse has a CalDigit 3. She says it has no issues.
The last time I search for a product like this were only TB3 available. I'm interested in solutions that worked for you in this kind of scenarios.
A laptop isn’t light/convenient if I’m forced to carry an armload of adapters.
It also has issues with sleep and device swapping for random devices not to wake up or a „stalled“ Ethernet Port when doing Teams meetings.
Updating the firmware didn’t help.
I'm just hoping that by the time I stop using this M1 laptop there will be alternatives because there's really nothing I like about Apple other than their SoC.
No complaints about the quality of the product btw, I have been using one myself for almost 2 years. I just found it pretty interesting that even the most recommended hub ends up potentially being just as suspect in terms of "who made it".
0. https://www.belkin.com/us/business/hubs-and-docks-for-busine...
Luckily I have not actually spent my money on these.. but we have had hundreds at work. I have had a Thunderbolt dock at my desk at work for about 4 years now, and have had one at home for 2 years now that I was able to expense. I've had both an OWC and a CalDigit Fail. My CalDigit at work failed last week after mostly sitting unused during the pandemic. IT had a rubbermaid bin full of broken ones.
I think the common thing we have is most of us have 2x 4k monitors.. one has to go into a Thunderbolt port and one goes into a DisplayPort. My desk at home only has one external monitor and seems to not generate problems. Usually one of the monitors will start to refuse to work.
The CalDigit has one set of bugs with Intel Macs and a different set of bugs with Apple Silicon IME.
Both of them have RF interference issues as well with things like Microsoft and Logitech wireless mice and keyboards.
It's all too bad cause the user experience is great when they actually work. Single cable to get everything works great.
Having used actually-junky docks, a good one is worth the money. My TS3+ is in year 3 of consistent, rock-solid performance. Most of its ports are used all the time, the host computer never sleeps (I've used it with both Intel and Apple Silicon Macs), and I've never had an issue that I couldn't attribute to a bad cable.
It's not the cables.. they handed me a new TS3+ and it immediately worked perfectly and it will probably continue to work for a year or two before starting the process of flaking out.
To be honest with the # of them I've seen break (almost everyone I know at work) the posts here seem like astro-turfing.
You might have a good one, but if you had 500 of them in an office you wouldn't think the product is "good" on average.
https://www.datapro.net/techinfo/thunderbolt_info.html#q3
> Thunderbolt 3 allows the connection of two 4K monitors, one 5K, or one 4K at 120 Hz per port. Thunderbolt 4 supports the same number of displays as Thunderbolt 3, while adding support for resolutions up to 8K.
So bandwithwise you probably need at least thunderbolt 4 (8k=4* 4k) and then not at 120Hz. Also even if the docking station can manage this, it is not clear whether your graphics card is able to, e.g. see
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000...
What might be possible is one docking station with two 4k@60Hz screens (many options) and then connecting a third screen to the laptop's HDMI port (if it has one).
I have a gigabit connection and have been using the CalDigit TS3+ since it came out. Zero issues, zero problems with it stepping down to 100 Mbps or anything else. I have GigE plugged in, two monitors, two large disk arrays, sound, and usually a couple other random things. The monitors and all peripherals work flawlessly, wake flawlessly from sleep, etc.
Every time I test the speed, it's around 940 Mbps, which is about the max that a gig fiber connection can actually push to you. Every time.
By contrast, a lot of my IT clients have tried to get by with the crappy cheap USB-C hubs or docks mentioned in this article, and without exception, they always completely suck. Eventually, they start listening to me and they buy a quality dock instead, and then their problems magically cease.
But the TS3+ DisplayPort & Thunderbolt monitor support is flaky/buggy and breaks.
It was not competitively priced and I feel a lot better about that after this post.
Somehow I couldn't ping google from my windows desktop connected via ethernet, or access the web via my phone or ipad via wifi. The router itself couldn't even ping anything.
The weirdest thing was the update never so much as paused and it wasn't using even 3% of my bandwidth. I'm not network engineer enough to even guess how the fuck it did that.
Once the update was done I just unplugged the Ethernet and used built in wifi cause I needed the HDMI/USB 3 ports on it. Zero problems thereafter. Internet was fine on every device.
It was shaped just like the pieces of shit in this article.
One could blame: Windows, crap hardware from Dell, and crap hub hardware. I think it is all three.
As a note though, its a DisplayLink dock. There's definitely performance implications on using a DisplayLink device versus USB-C alternate mode, but on the other hand its never had problems with the several Windows devices I've used it with.
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/dock...
Nope, that's why I posted a counter-anecdote. Not one has failed in my circle of friends, I think they're ugly but the build quality seems pretty great, so I'm just surprised to hear about your IT department's bin of dead TS3+ that they keep around for some reason. (I can't speak for the OWC dock personally.)
Sure a corporate anecdote is an anecdote but it's a sample size of ~500 versus 1 or 2-3.
The OWC ones do seem to be worse, that's why we transitioned to the TS3+.
What you described sometimes happens to me too, but definitely not multiple times a day.
If you don’t have it yet, I recommend purchasing SwitchResX software, as Apple’s own display management tool is garbage. What you can do is create custom “Display Sets” which are arrangements of monitors and custom settings/resolutions which you can then turn on/off. Ocassionaly a monitor will disappear, but then doing a “Detect Displays” in SwitchResX usually fixes it for me. That software has largely made a lot of my monitor issues like saving layouts go away.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HJKF2ZM/A/belkin-usb-c-to...
USB and the ecosystem is a complete mess. The naming system is horrific (and it keeps changing retroactively). You've got different connector types with different revisions. Controllers and products that are selective on what part of the "standards" they will comply with. The aftermarket cable industry is shady. On top of all that, now you're adding in different power delivery levels.
I’ve been using an HP Thunderbolt G2 dock with my M1 Pro and I get a 95% success rate.
The 5% failure rate is, I suspect, linked to my LG monitor more than the dock itself. I get some flickering sometimes that is resolved by restarting the monitor or restarting the dock. Happens 1 in 20 connections maybe. I also use the monitor with a windows computer and there is some funky color issue going on where if I go back to windows after using the Mac everything is at 200% saturation and 1% brightness or something like that.
Other than that, Ethernet is fast, I connect to 2 monitors at different refresh rates and I have all the ports I need with just one cable connected to the laptop.
I use it to switch between my work and home laptops, and it has worked without issue. Currently running 3 monitors with it (2 1440p 1 1080p), gigabit ethernet, and at least 5 usb devices.
- HDMI 2.2
- DisplayPort 1.4 Input
- DisplayPort 1.4 Output
- USB-C Upstream (PD 90W + DP 1.4 Alt Mode)
- USB-C Upstream (KVM)
- USB-C Downstream
- 5x USB-A Downstream
- Audio line-out
- LAN (RJ-45)
As far as I can tell it has the best connectivity and specs of any mainstream consumer monitor under $1k. It really doesn't feel worth it to spend $250-400 on a dock given the price point of these monitors.
It also doesn't have a power brick, which makes cable management a bit easier too.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-u...
Shouldn't the summary be "Hey, this Anker hub which looks quite different to the other two is actually pretty good"?
I'm running a Dell 27" 4K monitor and a ViewSonic 15" portable 1080p monitor along with the internal display full-time, with both external displays plugged in via USB-C on the Surface dock; and it's been reasonably reliable.
I don't have any other USB-C peripherals plugged in to the dock, and I haven't tried a fourth display; but so far, so good, no complaints.
It requires a strange driver I would've preferred to avoid. I tried a strange workaround on both and neither really works; one still doesn't display through the DisplayPort or HDMI, the other doesn't work with the M.2 2280 built into the dock.
Despite the similarity in name, it has _nothing_ to do with DisplayPort. AFAICT, does a compressed image thing over USB, like VNC. But proprietary, of course. I was also tricked into buying one by the name and was surprised when it didn't work with Linux.
Linux users should buy something that uses DisplayPort, _not_ DisplayLink. See https://www.dell.com/community/Laptops-General-Read-Only/Dem... for details on how USB/thunderbolt and DisplayPort when together.
It's a heap of crap. (Or, at least, the conjunction of it and Monterey is a heap of crap.) If I leave it plugged in when the Mac goes to sleep, eventually the Mac will kernel panic and force a restart. The ethernet just randomly dies, such that I now run the Mac permanently off wifi even though I have a superb fibre connection. The USB connections do at least work, but that's about all I can say of it.
In my experience (my team has deployed about 50k in 3 years), the thunderbolt ones are more reliable, even if the laptop doesn’t have thunderbolt.
I have had a couple of USB-C hubs and they have worked for both me and my partner. All my work machines are USB-C only and literally the only issue I can remember is where in one conference room the USB-C to HDMI output only went to 2 of the 3 screens on the walls but I think that was something unrelated to the USB-C connection.
Now I don't push my USB-C hubs hard but did run ethernet, HDMI, and USB-A device or two pretty often and everything worked as expected.
It seems like if you bought an accessory that's just a PCB (which means excluding headphones, storage, etc) within the last 5 years, there's like a 90% chance of it being dropshipped.
At this point, I've just given up and ordered right from AliExpress. I can't even name any good accessory manufacturers off the top of my head.
A hub is an accessory that turns one port into several of the same kind. Everyone understood this back in the USB-A days.
What this article discusses are port replicators. You might wanna call them docks although a pedant might take issue with that.
To the best of my knowledge, six freakin years after USB-C came to the market, there are no real USB-C hubs available. Some Thunderbolt hubs, but not simple USB-C.
I am doing these Type-C hubs, and other small stuff peripherals for a living.
My suggestion, don't look stuff retail, and don't look big brands, even Dell.
Pretty much any "brand business" had zero RnD. Their only feedback channel is the RMA rate. If it gets too bad, they just change the supplier.
Instead, I really suggest going the other way. Smaller makers have no money for big marketing, nor buying ready designs, so they hire people, and let them work until they make something sellable.
House brands often have better QC, because they are already very constrained by their pricing, and RMA will kill them. Thus, they have incentive to spend few extra thousand dollars in engineer work hours than to deal with $100k in returns themselves.
By the time I get around to using these devices, hopefully this kind of crap will get shaken out, and I'll have a nice stable of salvage accessories to choose from.
For now, I'll stick to my (also salvaged) MBP with regular USB, audio jacks, MagSafe, HDMI, SD card reader, and an extra millimeter or two of thickness. :)
I would need to burn through 8~9 $50~60 range alternatives that allegedly "suck" before I see returns, and by that time we would have 3 to 4 iterations of macbook.
I guess if you like peace of mind then this makes sense but I hope nobody drops $500+ on a hub from reading HN comments, the "crappy" ones described work fine, it just that it won't last and creates waste but it would take quite a long time to do so.
Germany is notorious for horrible customer service (e.g. the customer is usually wrong). Does the author assumes that all German companies have the same level of service of a BMW or Mercedes dealership? Hint: those dealerships are in the United States, not Germany.
Well, it's much better than its reputation. It's more a cultural thing. Germans are very direct and hate BS. Also many Germans hate to pay for convenience and aesthetics (that's why they do their groceries in these awful discounter shops where the food is presented in the card boxes used for shipping). That's why customer service workers (if available at all) tend to be more "in your face" but usually they try the best to help you if they can.
Not a dock, I don't want video, I don't want ethernet, I don't want an sdcard reader, I don't need switching
All I want is a powered 1 to many USB-C hub. Maybe my google-fu is failing me, but I can't find this category of product and I don't know why.
But this issue is we see not only with electronics. Amazon (here in germany) is flooded with cheap knockoff products. Everything under 100€ is mostly trash. It gets super annoying to find something for a reasonable price with a somewhat good quality.
LG and Dell also make similar USB-C hub type monitors as well, in a few different sizes but AFAIK none of Ethernet ports on them if that's important to you.
+ No RnD costs (staff and space, failed designs, prototyping)
+ No plant and equipment required
+ Smaller number of units required initially (no other outlays, so the number you have to sell is smaller)
+ Smaller time between investment and return
Negatives:
+ No innovation in the product
+ No control over manufacturing (quality, methods & materials used)
+ Higher risk of returns from customers (can’t control quality)
+ Higher risk of hurting or killing customers (product malfunction)
+ Loss of reputation due to the above three points (well deserved)
+ Inability to update design based on feedback
+ No control over price. You are at the mercy of your people in China after you’re established.
+ more. It’s a shitty practice if I’m brutally honest.
My point is: those upsides are appealing to both big and small players. No big upfront costs? I can just whack a label on a shiny piece of shit and make 2x ROI? Sweet! Reputation? Couldn’t care less, I’m small-time and can switch up if anything hits the fan.
So good I bought a second.
It doesn’t have built-in HDMI/DisplayPort out, but it’s easy to buy the appropriate cable to connect to your monitor (I recommend Club3D [2]). Especially if you’re trying to use an HDMI 2.1 or DisplayPort 1.4 display, as I’ve found most built-in ports on these hubs don’t support these latest standards or have weird issues with them.
It also has a nice mounting bracket [3] that lets you hide the cable mess under your desk or behind your monitor.
[1] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/device-docking-connect...
[2] https://www.club-3d.com/en/cat/cable/usb_type_c/1606/301/
[3] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/device-docking-connect...
https://www.sonnetstore.com/products/echo-11-thunderbolt-4-d...
And $40 cheaper than the Kensington branded one.
So even though it's thunderbolt and it works for you - it really is the same thing TFA is talking about.
They are virtually silent, have capable, reliable TB3 hubs. Outside the Mac Pro line, the BM eGPUs offered graphics capability to macs going back years that was only surpassed with the recent ASi MBPs.
They are remarkably stable and ultimately a great value.
The best solution to this I've seen is on Angelbird’s SD Dual Card Reader which uses a sadly proprietary shaped molded USB-C connector that goes DEEP into the reader, but it is very snug and wiggle-proof. I haven't tried, but I'm confident that I could swing this thing around by the cable and not hurt it or have it disconnect at all. It really does feel like the piece of pro-level kit that would be at home on a DIT cart like it was designed for.
The Lenovo TB3 Workstation dock worked relatively well for docking an X1 Extreme, and that too has a proprietary connector which combines Lenovo's charging plug with a TB3 connector. It's secure and doesn't wiggle much, but it's short and flexible but not terribly so (large bend radius).
Lastly, I'd just like to complain about how lame it is that there are so few docks with >1 HDMI or [preferably] DP connectors. On the OWC dock, I was literally using 1x MiniDP to DP adapter cable for one monitor, then a USB-C DP alt-mode dongle plugged into HDMI to the other monitor. Plugging a dongle into a dock is serious product-level cringe. Surely I'm not the only person in the world who wants to close their workstation-class laptop and use it with dual 4K60 32" monitors, yet there seem to be so few products that work like that. I don't want to dasiy-chain one over TB either. I understand the bandwidth limitations and hope that TB4 makes this an easier sell.
My Ideal TB4 dock: - LOCKING connector, somehow. Build a cage around it like they do for some IECs or mold in a deep strain relief or something. - 3X DisplayPort 2.0 (since they lock, unlike almost all HDMI that isn't on rackmount pro gear that news stations have)...DP 2.0 has been out since 26 June 2019. - 25G SFP slot that can take a 10GbE GBIC, DAC, or fiber. I'd settle for 10G SFP. - 2x downstream TB4 ports that can fall back to USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (ugh, really not a fan of USB IF naming conventions) - 4x USB 2.0 type A on a hub to plug in all the stuff that doesn't need much bandwidth, like keyboards / mice / phone charger / bluetooth dongle / YubiKey. - 2x USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type A ports for fastish devices like external HDDs that came out before Type C. - Pass through the entire 100W and make that actually work with MacBooks. I've plugged into so many docks that can't actually charge the larger MBPs. They'll give 45w or something, which doesn't cut it for MBPs, let alone mobile workstation class laptops. 100W would at least keep a laptop with a 45W TDP CPU and at least as powerful GPU afloat. I'm talking about stuff that comes with 200w+ power bricks here. I don't mind terribly plugging in the power adapter separately, just don't make me do what Lenovo did and plug TWO POWER BRICKS INTO THE DOCK. That's a bit much. - No damn 3.5mm headphone + mic jacks (extra audio chipset that is inevitably worse than the one built in and much much worse than a proper external pro interface), built-in wifi, bluetooth, built-in m.2 / 2.5" SSD...I love the SD card reader personally but make it a damn good fast one or just give me another couple of USB ports instead.
The closest I can get to this today is the Lenovo workstation dock, which they now make in a TB4 flavor featuring: 1 x 3.5mm Audio combo Jack 4 x USB-A 1 x USB-C 1 x HDMI 2.1 2 x Displayport 1.4 1 x RJ45 (gigabit) 1 x Thunderbolt (for Host connect) 1 x Thunderbolt (for Device connect)
Having heard positive things about caldigit, I got their USB-C Pro Dock and I get frequent screen blanking with my M1 Mac, and often some of the USB ports fail to work. I don't use the ethernet port, but I think it is a Realtek (so likely the same thing the author is complaining about)
I have spoken to caldigit support and so far they have replaced the dock once, and now have gone pretty quiet.
CalDigit's TS4 has Ethernet (2.5 GbE). I've been a happy TS3 user for years.
I've tested 5+ TS3 Plus docks, and all of them have a coil whine, which can be heard in a quiet room, without playing any music.
Sometimes I like to work in silence, and the coil whine really bothers me.
[0]: https://www.razer.com/gaming-pc-accessories/razer-thunderbol...
Your comments about the Screen Blanking sound bad and are are likely correct, I only have an Intel Mac to compare.
I’m not pushing 4K though, so mileage may vary. I’ve got a 27” TB2 Apple Cinema Display via TB2 to USB-C and a Dell via Display port.
As a guy working with Raspberry Pi and 3D printers a lot in my free time it is SO NICE to have the card reader right up front and easy to access. I also love un/plugging just one cord when I’m on the go.
Do not waste your money on high end consumer stuff, the enterprise stuff is better and the market is flooded with disposed units…
Work in a large F50 and all the enterprise grade ones we've had are decent.
This is the current model they are giving folks:
https://us.targus.com/products/usb-c-universal-dv4k-docking-...
I've been running an Intel MacBook Pro (last intel version I think) on it the last few months with 2 external HP displays, keyboard, mouse, and it is a solid performer.
I just need to swap the USB-C connector between the three and I get the same displays and peripherals.
Doing this with a "healthy array of external ports" would be a huge pain in the ass.
USB remains, of course, a donkey circus. Everyone involved in USB ought to be ashamed of themselves.
So it might be lunacy for you but it's not necessarily lunacy for others. And given the amount of market research these guys do I suspect the "never plug anything else in" crowd is pretty significant.
One for USB-C to Ethernet adapter.
One for Apple adapter that I plug USB-C power into, plus HDMI, plus a mouse.
Always works. Though it can’t prevent me forgetting to plug the Ethernet adapter in and realising I’ve been on wifi all day.
Sure this is relatively new and a ton of hubs are shit but this will only become better.
I can use my Anker mini dock on my laptop, switch and Samsung s22.
I just had to get IT to swap mine out at work last week.
We have hundreds of CalDigit and OWC docks.. tons have failed. I had an OWC one fail a couple years ago as well.
And yah, these things cost as much as a Chromebook or a cheap windows notebook.
I have used them with my MacBooks over the years as well as my gaming PC (ASUS ProArt B550 motherboard), and they are the most reliable part of my desktop setup. They are not just reliable, but reliably fast. I get full gigabit ethernet speed, fast USB transfer speeds, and fast SD card reading, without fail, every time.
Two of them would buy a complete Ryzen mini-PC, which could be another way to convey how hard it must be to make a “decent” thunderbolt dock.
I’d been thinking about this and want to add to the evidence that even though MacBooks were USB-C only for years and years Apple never shipped a dock they only shipped single port dongles.
No way would Apple not sell a $500-$800 dock that could “solve the usb-c problem” unless there was a good reason and I think the reason is this solution is inherently janky for some unsolvable engineering reason and only single port cables are reliable to the level Apple was happy with.
I had two of them with 3 Sabrent Thunderbolt SSDs each. So when you setup a RAID level and then copy data from A to B, it did crash for me each time. For copy I used "Carbon Copy Cloner"
In fact I go so far to say Thunderbolt is not reliable at all for 24/7 use, as it gets much hotter and currently would require active cooling to prevent throttling.
On my M1 Mac mini, between the OWC dock and another dongle (bus powered) and the remaining ports on the Mac, I can run 10+ drives with no problem plus multiple peripherals. That may seem excessive, but when you’re juggling between drives trying to find old projects for people or trying to build a demo reel, it speeds up the process immensely. It also enabled me to consolidate a bunch of old 1 to 3 TB drives onto a couple of master 16 TB drives with everything in front of me at once, saving a ton of time, stress, and double checking.
Frankly it’s just nice not having to unplug something two or three times a day just to be able to plug in something else. I always have an available port now and it’s got me so much better organized.
This is a known failure mode, but it doesn't hit everybody. It is solely an Apple software fault as older OSs do not exhibit it. I really wish I knew what the issue was.
On the plus side, I found this so infuriating that I finally threw all in and switched to Linux full-time (Lenovo X1 Carbon with a ThinkPad dock) and haven't looked back since.
Side note: practically every thunderbolt dock I have works fine with every x86 laptop I have running either Windows or Linux (including the Caldigit!). YMMV.
If it needs to be Thunderbolt and money is no object, there is the Apple Studio Display with 3 USB-C ports.
Gets a solid 980Mbits symmetric on the ethernet port, 90W of power delivery, etc. It's a lifesaver swapping just the one cable between my PC and laptop.
Works in USB-C mode too.
With this dock, I was able to run:
- 2 4K monitors - Gigabit Ethernet - USB-A - Audio connection for speakers - Power
all on one USB-C cable to the laptop. It also has an SD slot and a front-facing USB-A port for thumb drives, etc.
I was happy with mine until I started using an extra display with it recently. The main display is hooked up via DisplayPort. The problem arose when I added a second display over USB C.
For some reason, when I plug the monitor into the dock, there's a faint electrical noise. If I plug the monitor into a USB C port on the laptop instead, it's perfectly quiet. Maybe I should attempt HDMI instead. Either way it's frustrating.
I’m able to switch my personal (Lenovo) and work (Dell) laptops, mostly without issue. I say without issue because the Dell/Intel only supports HBM2 so won’t do two monitors if one of them is more than 1080p.
I settled on using the HDMI out from the laptop to split the difference in frustration and convenience.
It works fine on ThinkPads. Unless you are using Linux, where 4k@60Hz does not work due to lane misconfiguration (maybe this is fixed by now?). On Macs, I have found this Dock to be a complete disaster. It would often not charge unless you plug/unplug the Dock several times. Also Ethernet often doesn't work (it uses a Realtek NIC). I had two and sold both of them, because they are practically unusable with Macs, and replaced them by Startech Thunderbolt 3 Docks, which work great.
I went through 2 of these and finally bought generic usb C hubs and run 2x usbc->HDMI for 2x displays.
This is cheaper in the same way I don't use a KVM and instead change the inputs in my monitor (Also, I'd have to figure out what DP KVM supports G-Sync and 1440p 165hz).
It’s impossible to find any KVM at any price point that works with 120Hz, and certainly not 120Hz@3840x1600. Forget about G-Sync.
I resorted to just keeping short USB and DP or TB->DP cable extenders plugged into the computer ports and have a “cable zone” where I just unplug and replug all the cables to switch machines. The short extensions are to protect the ports in the machines from wearing out.
It’s way cheaper than any KVM and it actually works.
So now, comically, I have to have a type-C Ethernet adapter connected to the back of my Thunderbolt dock...
It has some Windows specific features that don’t work with Apple machines. So DYOR.
Isn't this like a known thing? Almost all peripherals on Amazon will have dozens of the exact same form-factor with different logos on it. You just buy the one that is the perfect intersection of costs, positive reviews, and shipping time. The assumption is that they all come from the same factory in China anyways.
A good example of this is the Caldigit TS4 [1]. All the ports you could possibly want. Here's what I've learned.
First and foremost, you'll be surprised at how many issues come down to a given cable being bad. It's gotten to the point that whenever I buy any sort of cable I typically buy 2 or even 3 at the same time because I assume 1 will be bad or will go bad.
Second, also to do with cables, don't use any cable to connect from your dock to your laptop longer than a foot. These cables that can take power and full bandwidth for displays and accesories are the most technically demanding. Keep them as short as possible. And again, have spares.
Third, while I'm a traditionalist and like a wired connection (and thus an Ethernet port), it's really optional now, particularly at home where you have some control over the network. Like I can get easily get 500+ Mbps over Wifi at home. This of course assumes a sufficient Internet connection but if you don't have that then Ehternet is even less necessary.
If you have flickering display in particular, your first instinct should be to blame the cable.
In contrast, I can't remember the last time I bought a USB-A, HDMI or Ethernet cable/peripheral that didn't work, partly because those specs are self-contained and simple enough that even the cheapest manufacturer will typically do a good enough job.
Drying out of electrolytic capacitors is a single largest cause of failure of electronic devices these days (apart from physical damage). My friend is in the business of restoring vintage tape recorders and audio amplifiers (from 80s and 90s) and what he does is he just replaces all electrolytes without even looking at them. This usually brings these machines back to life immediately. Resistors usually can handle the heat for extended periods of time: even if some of them bear marks of overheating, they are mostly fine.
He must burn himself a lot. It's hard enough to solder components when you are looking at them.
Intel doesn't make USB ethernet controllers, they only do PCIe. Realtek has a near monopoly on USB Ethernet, the only other supplier I can think of is SMSC/Microchip LAN7500, and I'm not sure it's any better.
> There’s also a second USB hub, but only a 2.0 one, same vendor, but 0x2817 as the product ID. That slower hub was used for the SD and microSD card reader.
That's the same hub, USB 3.0 just bolts on to USB 2.0 additively & the USB 2.0 world exists in parallel. Both hubs are contained in the same physical chip.
And ASIX.
And then there’s the specs. Which DisplayPort version does my laptop support? The answer may surprise you. I have experience with Dell laptops. Rather recent devices still only support DP 1.2 over USB-C. How can this be? GPU and everything supports DP 1.4, and have been for years.
Because most DisplayPort over USB-C equipment only carries two DP lanes, using DP 1.2 massively limits the possible display configurations. Adapters that forego USB SuperSpeed+ for more DP lanes are extremely rare. Finding them is next to impossible too, because who puts that in the specs?
With DP 1.4 you can easily power two 1440p DP 1.4 displays using one USB-C connection and still have USB SuperSpeed+. How nice that would be. I don’t need expensive Thunderbolt devices!
USB-C can do everything and it works well. However, for consumers, it’s just a big bag of incompatibility and opacity.
You'll get far faster transfer speeds, more ports, charging (and at full speed), proper display output (dual 4K/60hz) and better components/reliability. The CalDigit TS3 Plus[1] is what I've used for several years - first with a 2019 Intel MBP and now with my new 2021 M1 Pro MBP. It's pricey compared to a USB-C dongle, but rock solid.
In exchange you get a lot more expensive hubs, stiff, expensive cables, and a much more limited computer compatibility.
I imagine they're being hit by the chip shortage that impacted so many other companies. I'm still waiting on a Raspberry Pi, myself.
Here we are.
How many bad USB 2 Hubs did you have to deal with?
I got a hub with an external power connector that plugs into wall and it charges my iphone at trickle charger rates.
Meanwhile my "crappy" apple charger seems to blast my iphone up in no time.
One cost me MORE (the hub/dock).
I have an Anker one now, I guess I should expect the same.
I also have a Dell D6000, which is rarely reviewed but has been solid.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/an3nyf/pass_thoug...
Was it ever frustrating though trying to figure out why my network would randomly decide to just crap out.
My work laptop has Thunderbolt, my personal laptop does not. So this is an issue for me. I have a Plugable TBT-UDZ, which is one of relatively few docking stations that supports both. I can therefore use two 2560x1440 60Hz displays through either laptop.
This isn't without issue. My work PC (Windows) will every other week or so BSOD when connected to it, but, well, it's Windows. My personal personal computer (linux) will not crash, but every other week or so will simply refuse to recognize the docking station. So I have to unplug the docking station and plug it back in. It's annoying, but not the end of the world. I believe these two issues are the same issue, but I haven't bothered to confirm that. I don't have a Mac to try it on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQpxAvjD_30
I saw this a few months ago and it really lays bare a lot of the crazy stuff we've just got used to with amazon
" I’m writing this on an Apple MacBook Pro, and all I got was four lousy USB-C ports"
Is wildly inaccurate, as the author demonstrates in his conclusions where he explains that he's settled on a Thunderbolt hub.
Yes, they're more expensive, and yes, they're harder to find, but the fact is, for this type of use USB-C is kinda junky, and Thunderbolt is a much better option.
the Dell TB16 is just about the worst docking station I've ever used and that was Thunderbolt 3, and their USB-C equivalent (WD16 iirc) worked flawlessly.
Likely if you tore down the TB16 you would find the chip mentioned in TFA.
I tried using it on my Mac. But it's on some kind of an Apple blacklist and won't work on Macs. There was some way to enable it, by turning off system protection or some shit... But even then, you could not get all the functionality.
I have the TBT3-UDV and caldigit TS4 TBolt dock. They both rely on DC power supplies and higher quality components (intel NIC, for example). Both have been very stable over the last year for the TS4 and 3 yrs for the TBT3.
I run an engineering course and it's almost comical how often students have to set aside their $2000 Macbooks and use the desktop workstations because they forgot their dongles at home.
My Thinkpad has 6 USB ports (2 USB 3.0), SDCard, DisplayPort, VGA, ethernet and also e-sata and Firewire which I've never used.
I totally agree with the author, most of the products on the market are garbage, and many are the same garbage with different names. To a large degree to solve this issue you need to stop shopping on Amazon. Almost everything listed on Amazon not made by Anker doesn't work. Either buy directly for Apple, or buy from directly from small companies that focus on solving accessories for the Apple market (e.g. Rain Design, 12South, Hyper, CalDigit, et al). This is definitely not limited to USB-C hubs, and encompasses nearly all products. Buying direct from high-quality companies is always better than trying your luck with random brand-named Aliexpress specials sold through Amazon.
I got a USB-C Satechi hub, for some inexplicable reason, the webcam didn't work and other devices were super flaky. Maybe faulty unit? I returned it anyway.
I got another USB-C hub with HDMI and it didn't really work well with my monitor -- it turns out my monitor is 3440x1440, but has an HDMI port which does not support that resolution at 60Hz, so the HDMI is unusable. Oh well, not the USB-C hub's fault, but it still turns out I can't use one with this monitor.
So I got a Thunderbolt one. But that didn't work because it's Thunderbolt 4, and my laptop is only Thunderbolt 3. Of course, both are identical cables, and Dell's website doesn't explain this anywhere -- I only figured it out thanks to Reddit.
Okay, so I got another Thunderbolt one -- TB3 this time. That does mostly work -- except that when the laptop goes to sleep, the hub disconnects the keyboard that goes through it, so pressing keys won't wake up the laptop again. Oddly, the hub DOES feed power to the keyboard, it's just the data connection to the laptop that goes to sleep. I've to open the lid and press the internal keyboard. Meanwhile, the keyboard's power LED remains on.
I also have a monitor light connected to the hub, and it causes the opposite issue: the hub keeps powering the light when the laptop goes to sleep, so the light stays on. If the laptop turns of for any reason during the night, the light turns back on and STAYS on after that.
USB-C is a blessing and a curse. It looks like everything is interoperable, but it rarely is, and it's not at all obvious what products work together and which ones don't. Some cables charge my JBL USB-C speaker, but most don't. Some cables are Thunderbolt, some aren't. Some work with the webcam, some don't. Half these issues I have a mild idea why, half I don't.
I buy computers with the ports I need. No need for a hub at all. Even my MBA (from 2015) has an SD slot and regular USB ports. This USB-C only thing Apply tried was a big mistake.
Having USB-A ports would make no difference here, I want to deal with LESS cables, not DIFFERENT ones.
Why?!? I ended up getting a separate sub $20 USB-C to Ethernet adapter from a random Amazon brand called Uni. Get full gig, every time despite it having a Realtek 8153 chip in it. So, there might be more to it.
I have no means of verifying this, but it seems at least a plausible hypothesis.
To get 4k60 + USB3.1, you either need USB-C Alt Mode with DP1.4+ (supported by almost zero monitors), or Thunderbolt-3 (supported by fantastically expensive monitors).
It's much more economical to live with USB2.0 for your keyboards and mice, and get a separate USB3.1 hub if you need that.
https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-...
The other day, I was looking at TB4 hubs, and noticed that Every. Single. One. had the exact same layout of ports, with different cases around them. The price range was damn wide, too.
The different one was CalDigit. That does seem to be a good company; though pricey.
At that time, comments saying Anker was the best peripheral maker flooded the internet and made me feel like I was crazy.
I know that USB-C can cause interference on Bluetooth/WiFi bands, but this was never an issue with properly shielded adapters.
They have been using "Apple" style packaging (nice "unboxing experience" kind of boxes) and include slogans like "americas favorite charging brand" (the broken english on their website doesn't reassure me) on recent products I've bought from them, so they are certainly trying to make a brand for themselves as being above the standard junk you can find on Amazon, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was rebranded.
Might be a issue on the other end of the thunderbolt connector.
The last 5+ years as an Amazon customer have me feeling this way.
> Realtek RTL8153
Could the Realtek issues be related to power?
I have a Tbolt dock which is powered using a DC barrel jack (6.5amps @ 20V). The comparison is not great as the dock (TBT3-UDZ) is not a USB C dock and uses the Intel i211 nic.
The author appears to have found stability with the Anker PowerExpand 8-in-1, which has the buck converter with power management components.
I've had terrible experiences with the Satechi Multiport Adapter V2 and ICY BOX USB-C type adapters.
I suspect that the issues can typically narrow down with any dock to bandwidth or power.
The only difference you'd might expect is different QA tiers. But that's not assured.
USB-C is one of the worst in terms of compliance. He didn't even mention the complexity of getting 4k@60hz WITH USB3.0 speeds...
Anyway, for anyone who wants a single plug for Apple devices, any Thunderbolt 3/4 would be more reliable.
It's more expensive, but TB requires more certification and able to pass enough bandwidth for decent performance (even 5k@60hz with USB 3.0).
It's worth noting that the Realtek is crap, even ignoring the OSX driver situation. I have a few of the 2.5GBe dongles to make my synology speak 2.5gb/s (because a modern NAS is 2020 should have more then gigabit, but doens't because reasons). The driver in Linux is hot mess. I seem to have much more luck then some with it.
But they have turned their garbage products into a multi-billion dollar company and that's all that really matters in the world of business.
Whichever chip is the cheapest is the one that every accessory maker will use. It is rare that a company can break through with a product that advertises higher quality components but at a higher price, or they end up with such a massive premium on what should be a modest increase in BoM that the value proposition still doesn't make sense.
As a sidenote this is exactly what I expected to happen as laptop manufacturers started aggressively cutting ports from their machines. You have to switch to dongles, but dongles suck and the total experience is much worse than having a laptop that is 2mm thicker.
Even the OWC brand one I had was flakey, at similar $200-400 price point.
is there a USB-C option for me, or is my best bet a USB-A hub, a USB a-to-c adapter, and a usb c-to-a adapter.
https://www.fivebelow.com/products/4-port-type-c-charging-hu...
It is important to note that the cheapest, unbranded (or counterfeit) products may actually miss components. Looking at the PCB, you may see an empty slot where a MOV or a filtering cap should be, underspecced components or blatant counterfeits (no, that cap is not a Nichicon!). They may be from the same factories, but brand names usually don't get that low, and they have people on site making sure the factories don't pull these stunts on their batch.
I've used it on my LG television, my Levoit air cleaning machines, and other devices.
Yes, this. There are a few exceptions, thing like ssd drives, ram, sd cards, etc which I buy from companies that I know manufacture their own. For random peripherals, I just make sure it's Amazon Prime so there won't be any hassle if/when I need to return them.
I make an exception for earphones. Unless you're buying off-brand, you can be pretty certain that you're not getting white labelled. I'm listening to an audio book on Shure TW2's w/ se215 heads attached... not much chance that's white labelled. Same for the lower quality but also lower profile Galaxy Buds Live that I use as well.
Pro Tool Reviews did a big break down [0] a while ago that was very eye opening for me. It could easily be out of date by now but I had no clue how deep the groupings went at the time.
[0] https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-...
If you're dealing with off-brand or no-brand tools, you can still end up with something entirely usable but crappy. The prices usually tell most of the story.
First, Mac OS still doesn't support DisplayPort MST. If you have two or more non-Thunderbolt monitors, you'll need to use more than one port.
Second, many companies require their employees to use tokens such as Yubikeys, which are USB devices plugged into a laptop operating on human touch. Even if you dock your laptop, you will need to keep it within arm's reach so you can touch the Yubikey. You could remove the Yubikey from the laptop and plug it into your dock, but that defeats the purpose of docking.
Ultimately, I just want more desk space, and I consider both the dock and the laptop to be clutter.
Is this still true with TB4? TB4 docks can have 3 downstream Thunderbolt ports and afaik each of them can power a single DisplayPort display without MST being involved, and without the display having to be a 'Thunderbolt' display, which I think just meant that they had a TB3 hub in to allow daisychaining.
Any recommendations? I'm very happy with Monoprice's TB cables (https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24721), which start at $27 but are a lot cheaper than Apple's.
But for things like TB and DP cables, I don't have any particular brand recommendations. I'm not sure it matters. I just find something with a good rating on Amazon and buy 2 of them. Whatever gets labelled as Amazon Basics has thus far seemingly worked well enough.
Not cheap, but, they work great.
In 20 years once they atoned fir the dongle sins, I have 6 usbC adapters around the house
It's even worse on Amazon when a seller will list multiple lengths of the same cable, as there'll be reviews about how this works great for (e.g.) Dolby Vision on an Apple TV 4K, but that was for the short cable. That doesn't imply the longer version of the same cable will work for the same application.
USB-C has been such a massive disappointment.
I don't want to go back to the workstation tower life. Unfortunately, I still have to keep around a Ryzen machine for CUDA. But it is loud (even with Noctua fans), eats large amounts of power, and is completely non-portable.
Bought a USB-A hub because I needed a few extra ports for low speed devices; didn't work... turns out all the D+ and D- lines had a very high resistance to the point there the USB protocol just wouldn't work. HDMI cable, didn't work for anything beyond 720p. Ethernet cable, didn't work beyond 100Mbit, turned out to be a crappy CCS/CCA cable, said copper on the packaging, had copper in the connectors. Cutting the cable showed it was just a clad cable and the ends were dipped so you can't see it in the connector.
And returning them, the replacements almost always had the same issue because it was a bad design in the first place and you just had to get lucky that you got the "least broken" one in the batch. It wasn't a price point thing either, all of them are just crap until you get to the "we cannot afford to shit on our brand name" products.
The only HDMI cables that I had 100% success with, were the ones that came bundled with A/V equipment, even if some of them look like bottom shelf stuff.
HDMI: HDMI will silently degrade to lower versions of the spec over bad connections, so it might just be that the bad cables are invisible.
Worse is that, to a search engine, every USB product is exactly the same. Search engines take very specific queries and overgeneralize them to the point of uselessness. In the case of USB cables, basically every conductor fits--yes, even the god damned Romex. Some hyperbole sure, but it's hard to find a cable that can do more than charge a phone. "Smart" search engine "AI" has "learned" that SuperSpeed = USB = Wire = Romex. Auh god it's hard to put down the bitter sarcasm.
Having to click hundreds of product pages to look for specifics that a search engine stripped away is hell. It's not even like it's limited to USB. Try finding memory... surprise! Just like everything is a USB.... everything is a DDR. ECC, the very specific thing you need, is DDR. It literally doesn't matter if you put ECC in your query. Because DDR = DDR.
Specs don't help sell the product because search engines will take all of that spec sheet and decide it's exactly "USB."
And don't get me started on bad product pages that claim to sell "SuperSpeed 480 Mbit/s charging cables" Yup, Optimized. What does a search engine learn about that product page? Some people buy it therefore: relevance +9999. "I was tricked" never makes it back to the engine. You can't even flag a product page as inaccurate anymore.
I'm so exhausted that I don't want to buy anything anymore. Search engines were better when they gave you two results for some queries. At least then you knew that the engine wasn't capable of servicing the query in a useful way. You used to be able to hone your "search skill." No longer. You don't need to because now we have learning machines that... can't tell the difference between "gave up in futility" and "found what I was looking for."
What a spectacular failure search is today.
/rant
I made this mistake, and I ended up with a grossly overpriced monitor which fails to charge a MacBook Pro and whose video through USBC support is hit-and-miss, in the sense that it doesn't always work.
though of course my laptop's intel GPU + mesa drivers tears drawing to the screen, but i generally don't care and don't watch video or play games on the laptop
And you can just swap between them by switching the active input source?
KB/mouse -> switch -> desktop/monitor
Monitor <-> laptop (usb-c)
Desktop -> monitor (HDMI)
The downsides are that it only supports 45W charging, and you can't really use dual monitors.
Ideally I could use a KVM so everything is switched in one device. But USB switching is cheap and reliable (my switch cost $25 and has been rock solid), whereas the cheapest KVM I could find to do this cost $150, doesn't support 144hz, is stuck on hdmi 2.0, etc.
Depending on my needs I can run one of my computers using the full width, or run 2 at half width each.
This route doesn't have to be expensive either, my 1440p, 27 inch Philips docking monitor cost $270, basically the price of mediocre level docking station.
If you want a proper docking station, a higher end Dell monitor [0] will do with USB-C, display daisy chain and USB-PD. It'll enable single cable connectivity to anything you care, sans ethernet, which can be attached to the monitor's USB hub, if you really need.
For my mobility needs, I use a Kingston Nucleum [1] since I don't care about Ethernet, but about fast card readers. It also supports 60W USB-PD, which is ample for a MacBook Air M1. That thing is really high quality.
[0]: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-u...
[1]: https://www.kingston.com/en/memory-card-readers/nucleum-usb-...
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-a...
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HJKF2ZM/A/belkin-usb-c-to...
As far as I understand, Thunderbolt 3 needs to support 4x PCI Express 3.0, DisplayPort 1.2, and USB 3.1 Gen 2 [1] (slides 8, 10-15). And Intel advertises that their Thunderbolt 3 controllers can switch to DisplayPort-only alt-mode [1].
All the Thunderbolt 3/4 Macs that I have had (Intel and M1) definitely supported DP alt-mode (I hooked up a 4k@60Hz that way for years) and also USB-C docks that allocate lanes for DP alt-mode and USB 3.1. Obviously, Thunderbolt docks also work.
[1] https://www.thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/ID... [2] https://www.thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Th....
Are you sure? From what I've seen, it seems common for laptops to support the combination of Thunderbolt and DisplayPort Alternate Mode. (Both my MacBook and my Thinkpad T480s have ports like this.)
Outside of that… some USB-C based docks likely use the above standard internally, plus USB-C spec support for driverless Ethernet, hubs, etc.
That said, there’s always something to complain about with these accessories and cables, it seems…
What Macs don’t support ist DisplayPort MST. So the only way to power two monitors with one adapter would indeed be Thunderbolt.
Out of curiosity, in your engineering course, what are students expected to used to their own computers for? In my experience, any engineering course with labs that would require dongles supply desktop computers anyway. Your school doesn't have desktops in the classroom right? What equipment are you interfacing with that would be easily both mac and pc compatible anyway?
If "I want it to just work" is a lifestyle, then yeah, it's a lifestyle brand.
Can I ask why you bought a laptop that doesn't have that already on it?
The question is obviously why people buy laptops without ports they need.
3× USB 3.0 1× Thunderbolt 3 (with USB-PD support) Lenovo Charging port Lenovo Docking port HDMI, SDcard, Ethernet, SIM, SmartCard
It works with the oldest thinkpad docks and the newest thunderbolt docks at the same time.
If you can find an adapter that uses the Realtek 8156 chipset, which I believe the CalDigit TS4 uses, macOS will utilize the NCM driver and your performance will be rock solid.
ECM is a very primitive USB protocol for ethernet, whereas NCM is a more modern and performant one. NCM is to ECM as UASP is to BOT mode, if you're familiar with USB external drives.
Though, I myself had misfortune buying broken RTL8153 based ethernet NICs. Mismatched coupling capacitors, PCB shorts, possibly broken firmwares.
40%-30% people who do EE in China are just above the Arduino level.
Chinese engineering companies can make good hardware if you pay them, and give time to fix self induced issues coming from rushed development schedules, but in that case, they are not really that ahead from any other EE companies around the world.
One of the issues with the RTL8153 NIC is (as a sibling commenter points out) that on M1 Macs, you are confined to the CDC-ECM driver. RTL8153 with this driver usually cap at ~700MBit and cause a lot of CPU load (usually restricted to the efficiency cores, but it's still pretty bad anyway).
For USB docks, I can still understand the choice. But IMO this is inexcusable for Thunderbolt docks. You can tunnel PCI-E, so nothing holds dock makers from hanging a good NIC with well-supported drivers on the PCI-E bus. Some higher-end Thunderbolt Docks do this AFAIK. The Apple Thunderbolt 2 Ethernet adapter uses a Broadcom NIC on the PCI-E bus and can reach 1000MBit without causing high CPU loads. Unfortunately, it requires a Thunderbolt 3 -> 2 adapter, which is more expensive than the Ethernet adapter itself.
I also recommend the TS3 Plus, though it’s not as rock solid. Mine sometimes has a high frequency noise issue when the DP port is in use, though your resolution changes the hum’s volume. Also it freezes up occasionally, but I used it for 2 years without many troubles.
Otherwise both worked fine allowing me to drive 3 screens on the OG M1 mbp. They each cost around 350 eur though.
Probably time for a change I guess.
The funny thing is that 2015 Intel MBP (with Apple TB2->TB3 adapter) with the same dock and same monitor didn't blank or flicker. I guess it is something about the new Apple TB implementation in M1.
I had bad luck with the QNAP QNA-T310G1S and Sonnet Solo 10G SFP+ (surprising as their stuff is usually rock-solid) -- both based on the AQC100S chipset and the aQuantia AQtion driver just didn't work for me under LTS Ubuntu.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/usb-graphics-adapter,30...
When chips die, that's not something the standard could affect.
When a USB to Ethernet converter happens to be on the same circuit board as an actual hub, the USB standard isn't responsible for the Ethernet part.
The screen connections are pretty much just passthrough. That's the narrowest you can get.
And it doesn't sound like the USB ports on the hubs had any problems.
If you split things up by standard, you'd have a USB hub that always works, with a flaky ethernet converter plugged in one port and a flaky HDMI converter plugged in another port.
I was originally hoping to have gigabit Ethernet on the same monitor hub, but settled on the 300mbps actual throughout USB 2.0 allowed. At least it provides reliable low latency.
Not many will bother finding the item and review it n months ago when the bad capacitors dies or they gave up frustrated by a recurring but intermitent issue.
I haven't bought the new studio display, but the Thunderbolt Display was great and the LG UltraFine 5K is, too. Used both as daily drivers (and docking stations) for years. I only haven't bought the new one because that LG one is still going strong.
Regardless: my point is that this certainly seems to be "the vision." You don't need a docking station because your monitor functions as one. If I had to guess, they probably think normal people don't want to buy a docking station and then deal with a series of poorly-integrated peripherals.
[1] https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/apple-studio-display/stan... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210205
I have no idea what led you to believe that someone searching for monitors that charge MacBook pros with thunderbolt did not checked if the monitor charged MacBook pros with thunderbolt.
(1) I keep my MBP closed. It take 10-30 seconds for it to wake up on keypress. That's so long that I often have no way to tell if it noticed I pressed key.
(2) If XCode is debugging and the screen sleeps then MacOS 12 never recovers unless I disconnect the cable, open the lid, get it wake up on the laptop monitor, and then plug it back in and finally close the lid.
I get why #2 is rare and therefore not fixed but still (T_T)
Pretty lame that one of the "best" laptop mfgs in the world can't make docks work right with one of the biggest CPU / IP mfgs in the world. Laptop sleep states were a problem back in the early 90s on Linux...some things really never change.
So for the feedback on keypress, I'm using devices with backlight. Both keyboard or mouse work fine, once they light up, you know that it is waking up.
Here we are 7 years later, and the SAME lighting cable apple has had for 10 years (!!) is more sturdy, has great low latency (if you compare to USB-C for music making the difference is crazy), has fantastic reliable power delivery.
I mean, after 10 years you'd think the new standards would be absolutely crushing Apple's old tech.
But I can't get the low latency on USB-C for audio I get on lighting (anyone know why? Both are wires) 10+ years later.
It's maddening. And the power delivery and speeds of USB-C/USB3 are just crazily all over the map. You can plug into a blue USB3 port and go no faster than you did on an old port!
Docks are always a hit or miss thing. I had Dell docks before, also ~350 eur or so, and they consistently failed to wake up the external screens on resume from sleep. Same screens worked just fine on the Startech.
Quick Google Search. This is what I used to get it working, as much as one can consider it "working" https://github.com/rgov/Thunderbolt3Unblocker/releases
I don’t use external monitors with that device which probably makes a difference but IMO the point still stands - I think there is a silent majority of people who don’t want or care about more ports.
Flash drive? Hardly ever used one; networking existed before they were invented.
I'm using a BT mouse explicitly not to bother with a stupid "2.4GHz USB Receiver" and keep one (USB-A!) port free.
but I can comment on what a polygot cross-platform cross-cloud software engineer who supports a plethora of native portable devices integrations require, and thats USB hubs with ports coming out the ye-ha - otherwise im constantly playing musical chairs.
But why did you have to begin your comment with the condescending “all the sheep/ad devs”? It makes you look insecure and I only read beyond that because your comment was so brief.
There are machines with lots of ports and machines with few and someone’s choice of which to use is not a moral judgement.
It's a nice way to avoid the lunacy here.
I wasn't thinking that though - I was thinking something like the ones reviewed in the article but perhaps with a Apple Thunderbolt connector to prevent them from having to support Windows PC users.
There is no such thing as "Apple Thunderbolt" just "Thunderbolt". It was developed by Intel, Apple was involved early in development with Intel and first to market >10 years ago but that's it. Most Windows laptops come with Thunderbolt and both Dell/Lenovo offer Thunderbolt Docks just as much as USB-C docks. Being Thunderbolt or not has no impact on whether or not the dock will support Windows/Linux vs macOS.
It notes that the Kingston, Sonnet, and others are rebrands of the Goodway DBD1100.
I do dev and browsing work at 30hz and the only thing I notice is the little gaps when moving the mouse fast.
I just notice discomfort when my monitor isn't >90Hz or so. On Windows it occasionally will reset to 60Hz, maybe due to video card driver updates? I could probably re-adjust back to 60Hz in a few weeks but I don't see the point of going through the discomfort, especially when I occasionally do play games where the higher frame rate makes a much more drastic difference.
Level1Techs a small shop that I discovered via their YouTube channel. While they don't manufacturer the KVM themselves (all to common, see the OP link), they look to have done rigorous testing and compatibility analysis. They claim it works up to 3840x2160@120hz because it supports DP 1.4.
https://store.level1techs.com/products/14-display-port-kvm-s...
I actually did many days of research into assembling my own KVM. HDMI is surprisingly straightforward but DP is a nightmare of nested standards. Just one example: There is support for running i2c tunneled through another protocol. The biggest issue is the link speeds that a DP1.4 cable runs at. The chips needed to do the switching are expensive and pretty much need to be machine assembled. When you get to those frequencies the trace design and board composition even become a factor.
After all that I don't find the $299+ for a good KVM to actually be that excessive. It's surprising how difficult it is to electronically do "I unplug cable and plug another one in".
I don't even need stuff like display spoofing, etc, since I only use one machine at a time and don't constantly switch, but it was just way too much work to put together. If you only need slower link speeds it's doable.
I'll have saved enough to send him to College.
.
Hack 1. Gas light your children ...
Since "real" USB-C hubs seem to be garbage, why use one?
Hand tools are sometimes more about feel than actual performance differences, but over the years I've come to appreciate (and be able to easily afford) the nicer stuff. It's nice not stripping Phillips head screws now that I've got really nice drivers with excellent sharp grippy tips in all the different sizes to properly fit. I grew up with the poorly-made fake chrome set of "jewelers" screw drivers that I'm sure many of y'all also learned on. I guess it makes me appreciate Wiha / PB Swiss / Wera / Felo / Klein MIUSA / custom boutique stuff (check out Scout Leather Co and CountyComm TPSK for some of the best precision multi-bit drivers I've used) more now.
On hand tools, Project Farm reviews those too, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP4uECoH8cc for torque wrenches.
I admit that there are some made-up Chinese brands that are just slapping a random name on stuff coming out of the same few factories and selling on Amazon (then changing the name if they get bad reviews) for tools, but that's only really at the bottom of the market. Mid and top-tier tools do actually have measurable performance differences in many cases. Whether that's worth it to you is for y'all to decide. I just really hate ruining a project / breaking stuff because of bad tools that can't do the job, and I dislike supporting companies that make knock-off designs (i.e. they don't pay for their own R&D) out of cheaper, weaker metals then selling look-alikes at still-too-much-for-what-you're-getting prices. There's actually a name for this in the bicycle world: "bike shaped objects".
Life hack: use a better screw. Pozidriv is 60 years old!
Every other windows laptop brand, not so much.
Mileage will of course vary - any thinkpad centric thread on here has a bunch of people with experiences like mine and a bunch of horror stories, after all.
I don't think that's a good thing though. No adapter/hub should be this complex IMO. I don't know how the ubiquity of USB got us to this point, it seems worse than before.
> Motorola 68000 CPU running at 12 MHz, 512 KB of workspace RAM, and a 1 MB frame buffer.
vs the Mac 128K with
> Motorola 68000 microprocessor running at 7.8336 MHz, connected to 128 KB RAM shared by the processor and the display controller
No it isn't, lol. Thudernbolt/usb-c docks are a solution to a made-up problem.
It is absolutely possible to have all the necessary ports on a modern slip laptop.
Just look at the Dell Latitude 7390:
- https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/dell-latitude-7390
- https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Latitude-7390-i5-8350U-SS...
That might not be a full-time goal. Some want a machine that works on the move but can be expanded to bigger screens and such when at certain locations (office and/or home). A laptop and dock allow this compromise.
It is a compromise, not one suitable for all. But it is the list inconvenient option for many.
I wouldn't say "some". Probably 90% of developers I know require exactly this, in fact off the top of my head I can't think of any who don't. Even the permanent, full-remote, no-really-there-is-literally-no-office types want to sit in a different room sometimes or work from a coffee shop.
It's pretty rare to have a "workstation" setup that cannot be moved.
And good luck getting anything close to RTX 3090Ti performance in a laptop. It'd basically be a toasted oven on your lap.
Desktops can just sink a ton more heat, and as process shrinks and die size increases have gotten us less and less additional performance each year, we're just pushing power up to the point now where a TOTL gaming desktop is pulling close to 1KW. A laptop will never come close. If you really do want to try a literal desktop CPU in a laptop, there are mfgs like Eurocom and Sager that will sell you one, just don't expect it not to throttle a lot under actual heavy workloads.
Wait, what? Are you like cryptomining or something? That's actually insane. I charge two electric cars at home, work from home using a powerful workstation, and my electricity is about £100/month. How do you manage to spend 800 euro a month????
I find it surprising that the appeal of the above would be confusing for anyone.
Sure, you could buy a separate desktop for that, but if you also go portable, don't want to bother with some kind of online sync solution, and want to move between laptop mode for on the go and something docked to big monitors and a no laptop keyboard/mouse for when you are at your primary workspace, getting a good laptop plus a dock rather than spending more for a laptop plus a separate desktop which makes you have to compromise on syncing somehow makes a lot of sense.
(Obviously, if you need desktop processing power, thermal envelopes mean that laptops aren't going to be competitive. But if that's your need, you aren't going to be looking at laptops, and how to connect peripherals isn't going to be your limiting factor.)
The only things that move around are my laptop and I. I don't want to carry around a desktop computer and plug in power, screens, and USB hub every time I switch desks.
More examples in the winter fashion industry: supposedly, to wear a Patagonia jacket says you care about sustainability; to wear a Canada Goose jacket says you have a quality coat and can afford it; while to wear Arc'teryx means you're a pro outdoorsy bloke prepared for extreme weather. A lot of the price comes from people wanting to communicate stuff about their identity.
(Slightly off-topic, but the cheapest and most functional way to stay warm isn't a parka, but wearing multiple layers, e.g. a base layer, a puffer jacket, and a waterproof windbreaker.)
Well, where do you buy USB hubs in a world w/o capitalism and consumerism?
And a great way to advertise to your peer group that you're comfortable and wealthy enough to be able to choose to disengage from the capitalist rat race!
The practical advantage of no logos is that this avoids judgement. People may look down on you for spending so much to get an item from a brand, while other people might look down on you for spending too little. You could just not care about others' judgement, though other people could still treat you differently. Separately, there is the ethical issue of whether one frames visible logos as 'free advertising,' which might not be desirable to do.
The sociology text "Class: A Guide Through the American Status System" by Paul Fussell also explores why some people deliberately wear brands, while others avoid them.
On a (potential over-analysis) of why some people deliberately have branded items: ""Legible clothing" is Alison Lurie's useful term to designate things like T-shirts or caps with messages on them you're supposed to read and admire. [...] When proles assemble to enjoy leisure, they seldom appear in clothing without words on it. As you move up the classes and the understatement principle begins to operate, the words gradually disappear, to be replaced, in the middle and upper- middle classes, by mere emblems, like the Lacoste alligator. Once, ascending further, you've left all such trademarks behind, you may correctly infer that you are entering the purlieus of the upper class itself."
"Brand names today possess a totemistic power to confer distinction on those who wear them. By donning legible clothing you fuse your private identity with external com- mercial success, redeeming your insignificance and becoming, for the moment, somebody. [...] And this need is not the proles' alone. Witness the T-shirts and carryalls stamped with the logo of The New York Review of Books, which convey the point "I read hard books," or printed with portraits of Mozart and Haydn and Beethoven, which assure the world, "I am civilized."
On why some people deliberately avoid logos: "X people are independent-minded, free of anxious regard for popular shibboleths, loose in carriage and demeanor. [...] Since there's no one they think worth impressing by mere appearance, X people tend to dress for themselves alone, which means they dress comfortably, and generally "down." [...] If the Xs ever descend to legible clothing, the words-unlike BUDWEISER or U.S.A. DRINKING TEAM-are original and interesting, although no comment on them is ever expected. Indeed, visibly to notice them would be bad form."
The TL;DR of the whole hypothesis by Fussell is that some people avoid having brands on their physical stuff because they don't want others to see a logo on an item; connect the logo to values of a corporation as part of that corporation's "brand identity"; and make assumptions about that person's personal identity based on that brand identity.
I do the same input switching he mentioned, and it works very reliably.
It also has support for pbp mode, where it can display each computer on a portion of the screen.
Also, of all the MacBook Air users I know, I'm the heaviest user in terms of processor load, and given that it's the company computer, it wouldn't be my first choice for a personal MacBook (in fact, I have a personal MacBook Pro).
At the end of the day, having a featherweight computer which can do all my work related tasks and some heavier stuff and doesn't needs its charger and ports most of the time is really a spoiling thing. However, for heavy development and photographic work, nothing beats on board ports and a bigger screen.
[0]: https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-air/n/images/specs/mba_charg...
[1]: https://images.macrumors.com/t/MsiVifkTbdhdqh2z2tvJZXIuH80=/...
HDMI would require curving the bottom differently but would easily fit in a laptop of that thickness.
> Engineers: "Okay... but it's going to be expensive and complicated..."
> Apple: "Money is insignificant next to the power of user experience."
> Intel: "Oh, people are actually using this thing we created?"
> USB-IF: "But us, b..."
> Intel: "So the USB won't let me B. Or let my TB be USB, so let me C."
> USB-IF: "You are again our hearts' delight."
> Customers: "Why is this so complicated? Remember when one connector meant one kind of cable? Those were great days."
And that's how we got here.
'... where we came in. Having to buy an external dock is such a compromise! I want to have all the ports on my laptop!'
'But if all your peripherals are connected directly, you need to connect and disconnect them every time, so you have to compromise on mobility. Isn't this...'
And different variations on this same spiral.
Currently I have a 34" 3440 x 1440, and with two separate docking stations (one for each laptop) and a USB hub for my peripherals that is connected to both docking stations. It's a lot of extra mess on my desk that ideally I would like to cleanup with having everything connect directly to the monitor.
BTW, how is the resolution on the 40"? Can you use it with native resolution, or do you have to do any scaling? Having all of that extra screen real estate would be awesome
For most peripherals, there are software solutions. I ditched any kind of KVM, and my monitor does not have USB ports. However, I use my monitor to switch inputs and use barrier to use the same keyboard and mouse on multiple systems (up to four). It works well and when traveling I also use it to work on my work laptop, with my personal laptop off to the side for reference materials, calendar etc.
But whatever, whether it fits or not with the current molding, the laptop does not need to be thicker to fit those ports. It just needs to change the curve near the back. Look how thick the middle is between the ports it has. That's way more than enough. Thickness including screen peaks at 16mm.
Just re-measured with a USB flash drive and an actual MacBook Air M1 (which I'm actually typing this comment on), and it's not. Do you want a photograph with a caliper?
> But whatever, whether it fits or not with the current molding, the laptop does not need to be thicker to fit those ports. It just needs to change the curve near the back. Look how thick the middle is between the ports it has. That's way more than enough. Thickness including screen peaks at 16mm.
Actually, you can see in [0], there's no space to fit a full depth, full height USB-A port inside there. You need to make the machine definitely thicker to accommodate that ports, given all the shielding a USB-A port around it [1]. This is a listing for a straight port. You'll probably need a 90 degree version in a MacBook Pro, unless apple does something ingenious.
[0]: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/eIi44fP1clanGHWQ.f...
[1]: https://sa.rsdelivers.com/product/wurth-elektronik/692121430...
But let's go back to the side view you first linked. Would you really say that this distance is too shallow for a USB A port? https://i.imgur.com/OtqDMh1.png It's more than a centimeter.
The machine reaches that thickness under the keyboard. Around the middle Torx screw holding the screen hinges on the top of the image.You can of course carry the thickness like the MacBook Pros to the edge, but there are other problems.
USB-A ports are a bit thicker than the opening themselves. A proper, high quality port has some spring loaded shielding pressing towards the port opening and it flares out, Also, 90 degree ports have some distance between the port body and contacts, since you need to fix the port to the board via quite a few pins (9 pins on electronic side, plus at least two for retention, unless you clamp in down via a retainer, which needs screws, etc).
All of this "machinery" adds quite a space required to implement a USB-A port on a board. As you can see in the article itself, the hubs themselves use "through the board, unflared" ports to minimize space use as much as possible, and none of them are very slim.
The slimmest USB 3.0 hub I've seen is from Anker [0][1], which I also use almost daily. As you can see, you need to have that slack around that port. Same port on a laptop needs same amount of slack around [2][3]. My older MacBook Pro also has similar amount of slack around its USB-A ports.
All in all, a MacBook Air doesn't have the thickness and space to include that port, in its current form. We're always talking about thickness, but insertion depth is at least 15%-20% greater for USB-A too. Plus you need the depth required for supporting the pins on the plug side. That needs to be taken into account, too.
[0]: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0493/9834/9974/products/An...
[1]: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0493/9834/9974/products/A7...
[2]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16131/a-15inch-thin-laptop-fo...
