The Betrayal at Krondor Help Web

The Betrayal at Krondor Help Web(vga256.com)

93 points by ccanassa 4 years ago | 29 comments

Wish the game was remade, it has many interesting concepts, especially for its time, but the visual presentation and some gameplay elements hadn't aged well.

It was an example of an early open world game. The most interesting part of the game is the first chapter. The game very directly makes you go south towards Krondor, and the path north contains some large enemy packs. But if you manage to defeat the two large enemy packs, it gets much easier later on and you can take a very long detour around the entire map. This means you can access some high level equipment and spells early on in the game. The game designers actually planned for this possibility, because there are some quests in those areas that can only be completed in the first chapter (normally you'd explore these areas around the third chapter at least).

brolumir 4 years ago | |

While the game itself is not getting remade, there is an “inspired by” game in the works: https://www.callofsaregnar.com/

ccanassa 4 years ago | | |

Damn! They managed to update the graphics while keeping the "feel" of the original game, that's quite an impresive feat.

ccanassa 4 years ago | |

Yes, I also think that the art didn't age very well, the 3D world being quite confusing to navigate IMO.

I forked an open source reversed engineered implementation of that game some time ago, you can see it in here: https://github.com/canassa/betrayal-at-krondor

My hope was to get it working and eventualy update some of its graphics but I never had the time to properly work on it.

bstar77 4 years ago | |

This is a pretty rare game for that time that didn't have much of any pixel art... it was either scanned images or rudimentary 3d. I had no idea what it was when I downloaded it off a BBS and was pleasantly surprised by the visuals. It's funny how our perspectives change over time.

Delk 4 years ago | |

On the other hand, I think one of the unique(?) elements of the game was perhaps because of the rather limited visual presentation.

Betrayal at Krondor uses written descriptions of events and environments a lot. It felt natural, at least to me, perhaps partially because the graphics didn't really allow for showing a lot of detail visually. Extensive voice acting wasn't really a thing in the floppy era either.

Nowadays, with the incredibly detailed graphics and professionally voice-acted spoken dialogue of AAA games, it might seem a lot more weird if what the characters saw were described in writing.

HideousKojima 4 years ago | | |

I've been playing through the remaster of Nier recently and there's one segment of the game where it transitions from 3d action RPG to text adventure. It's very bizarre, but you should go into any Yoko Taro game expecting bizarreness so it actually works out pretty well.

aidenn0 4 years ago | |

What I don't understand is why I loved Krondor but couldn't stand Daggerfall (or any of the later Elder Scrolls games). Maybe it's just that Krondor was more focused? The chapter system certainly made it easier to know what the next "primary goal" was without restricting you too from exploring the world (at least in most of the early chapters; the last 3ish chapters were certainly more railroaded).

YeGoblynQueenne 4 years ago | |

The original is on GOG, though I haven't played it and I don't know how well it is emulated.

2muchcoffeeman 4 years ago | |

I played BaK several times and never knew that.

bencollier49 4 years ago |

The book "Magician" by Raymond E. Feist, which this game came from, is a great read and interesting in as much as the book came after and grew out of a long-running RPG campaign, if I remember correctly.

stevekemp 4 years ago | |

There's a good writeup here with some more background

https://www.filfre.net/2019/10/betrayal-at-krondor/

kemayo 4 years ago | |

Magician was the start of a reasonably entertaining sword and sorcery series. The RPG campaign roots are really visible once you pay attention, but (as far as I can remember) in a better way than, say, Dragonlance managed.

I always enjoyed the political fantasy spin-off series Daughter of the Empire by Janny Wurts more, though. :D

TillE 4 years ago | | |

Feist gets a lot of flak for being yet another Tolkien ripoff, but I think he's by far the best of the ripoffs. The first trilogy, anyway.

And yeah, the Empire trilogy is probably the best of his (co-)work.

xen0 4 years ago | | |

Both Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon both feature a very literal party, gathering at a very literal tavern.

luciusdomitius 4 years ago | |

It is a great book, somewhat better than the competition, but being aware of Feist in the age of Tolkien, GRRM and even the Harry Potter lady, simply means a lonely childhood hah.

mabster 4 years ago | |

There's also "Krondor, The Betrayal" where he turned the game back into a book! Unfortunately not as good as his earlier works.

xen0 4 years ago | | |

That trilogy (Betrayal, Assassins, Tear of the Gods) is weird. 'Krondor: The Assassins' is 'readable' at least, but is also the only one not based on a game; it can be a little more focused, although it retains it's DnD campaign style story.

2muchcoffeeman 4 years ago | | |

Yeah, the later works were very much fan service. Very easy reads if you’re on a holiday though.

PostOnce 4 years ago |

Betrayal in Antara (the sequel to Krondor) was like Skyrim to me. The reviews mostly focused on the outdated graphics, but we've long since moved beyond "graphics keep getting better" and I suspect it would be more happily reviewed in 2022 than it was back then.

Also, I consistently think about art (music, games, movies, books, etc), that while you may not have massive international fame, your work might still be somebody's favorite.

xen0 4 years ago |

I have very fond memories of this game; I played it a lot as a child and can still probably recite a great number of the word-locks. I'm pretty sure my parents would still recognise the riddle music too, even after 20+ years.

I remember this site too and am saddened to learn of the author's passing.

It's heartwarming to see a relic such as this preserved, when so many similar things are left to disappear with the communities that made them.

busterarm 4 years ago | |

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgRBXulWKXE Yep.

busterarm 4 years ago |

This game and Might and Magic VI have always been my high water marks for computer RPGs, despite their flaws.

This website is serious nostalgia for me.

The Mordhel wordlocks from this game are a mechanic I desperately wish other games would pick up (who doesn't like riddles?).