Ask HN: I did not get pay rise – as only person in team. Should I quit?

31 points by hansor 3 years ago | 84 comments

Hi.

I'm sole developer working in some niche industry in team with 9 engineers.

Today our CEO announced that 80% of people in our company (thousands) received pay rise(due the inflation etc.).

It is first time in 4 years that I did not get any pay rise.

Just month ago I asked(via email) for feedback from my boss and he praised my skills, ambitions and working speed.

Reason that I did not get pay rise might be that I'm not afraid to criticize some stupid ideas, and I'm very offensive when it comes to handling projects (I lead, and I work hard). So I often have some silly(very short lived) conflicts with some of the engineers.

I love my job and industry, but I often have problem with my team (non programmers) and I lack "emotional" support form my boss(no "thank you" for working in weekends for example).

My boss refuses to talk with me about it.

Should I just quit?

joshstrange 3 years ago |

You should never quit until you have another offer in hand.

> Reason that I did not get pay rise might be that I'm not afraid to criticize some stupid ideas, and I'm very offensive when it comes to handling projects (I lead, and I work hard). So I often have some silly(very short lived) conflicts with some of the engineers.

I'm all about pushing back on "stupid ideas" but you might want to think about coming up with a less abrasive way to do it. That won't win you any friends and could hinder your ability to get other jobs in the future "He was a hard worker but no one wanted to work with him". You can skate by for a while acting this way but it will come back to bite you. Working on your soft skills can be invaluable and let you go much further than you otherwise might.

But all that said, I'd look for a new job unless you want to try asking for a raise. Even if you get the raise, if it feels like pulling teeth, then start looking. Also don't work outside 9-5 hours unless you are compensated, companies will take advantage of that and not care if you burn out.

nicoburns 3 years ago | |

> You should never quit until you have another offer in hand.

Assuming you don't want some time out in between jobs of course.

itake 3 years ago | | |

You can still quit and delay your start date. You can also request to go on unpaid time off. You don't need to disclose that your time off will be spent on interview prep :).

joshstrange 3 years ago | | |

Of course! I just meant don't quit out of spite ever. It's always better to keep plodding along at your current job (income, health insurance, etc) until you find an alternative.

Whatever spike of adrenaline/endorphins you get in that moment will not be worth it in the long run.

cogman10 3 years ago | | |

Eh... Most companies are flexible on start dates. If you want to take some time off, just put that start date a month or two past your end date.

corrral 3 years ago | | |

All bets are off if you have even minimal "fuck you" money, of course.

Most people don't, though. They can't go long without a job, and having a gap on their résumé is scary (for good reason—if you need a job, anything that might make getting the next one a little harder isn't good).

Verdex 3 years ago | | |

I would personally try to get the new job to delay my start date if the alternative was to hunt for a new job while having none.

itake 3 years ago | |

+1. There is a Venn diagram of your best interests and the company's best interests. These circles often overlap, but personally, I would prioritize my own career development over my own (potentially wrong) opinions about what projects I should work on.

kaycebasques 3 years ago |

I personally would take a step back and get rid of any assumption about why I did not get a raise. You have jumped to the conclusion that you did not get a raise because of some personal defects. It could just as well be that 80% of the company was profoundly undercompensated whereas you are already compensated in line with market rates.

I think it's reasonable to expect your manager to provide more details. I would give my manager a heads up that if they do not explain I am going to escalate. In my escalation I would stick to the facts. "The CEO said 80% of the company got raises. I did not get a raise. I have asked my manager for an explanation. My manager refused to explain."

P.S. you should totally work on those personal defects that you've identified in yourself. It sounds like you may also have some responsibility in creating a toxic work environment.

teilo 3 years ago | |

> It could just as well be that 80% of the company was profoundly undercompensated whereas you are already compensated in line with market rates.

As a manager, I cannot emphasize this enough. It happens all the time.

treis 3 years ago | | |

It's very unlikely that a developer hired 4+ years ago is compensated in line with market rates. The market has gone bananas in that time and it would be very rare for a company proactively give raises big enough to match.

codingdave 3 years ago |

If you admit to being offensive and often having conflicts, it sounds like you already have an idea of why you did not get a raise. I'd tell your boss that refusal to talk about makes you feel like you are not wanted there, so if they do want you on the team, that discussion needs to happen.

And if it doesn't, then yes - it sounds like there are some problems in both directions, so maybe it is time to find something else.

rsyring 3 years ago | |

> I'd tell your boss that refusal to talk about makes you feel like you are not wanted there...

IMO, he's probably not wanted there given what he's said about himself and that the boss won't talk about it. The whole situation sounds to me like they don't want to fire him but are hoping he'll leave.

kcplate 3 years ago | | |

> The whole situation sounds to me like they don't want to fire him but are hoping he'll leave

Depending on where the company is located, I would say this could be likely. In certain places, an intentional termination of any sort, can result in legally mandated exit payout packages.

swat535 3 years ago |

I'm an older engineer and having been in your shoes, here is my advice:

The best way to get a pay raise is to change your job. This is how the industry works.

Many people fail to realize that their relationship with the company is a contractual one and nothing else. Sure, your coworkers are most likely pleasant to be around but that does not change the _nature_ of a corporation. It exists to simply generate profits for itself and has no other goals.

This is why getting emotionally attached to your work is a mistake because sooner or later it will harm you in some way (burnouts, preventing career growth, slowing financial growth,..). Companies know this of course and usually use it to take advantage of people. What do you think all those ping-pong tables, free foods, team building "exercises", lectures about how we are in the trenches together, etc are supposed to achieve? All those are meant to amplify one's emotional investment to a soulless corporation.

Still not convinced? Just look a the CEO of bolt right now with his emotionally charged war speech as the ship is sinking.. Lord knows what he is saying to his team internally to squeeze a few extra cents out of them before the end.

But I digress; Yes, you should quit if you are unhappy. Don't go to your boss, don't "discuss it", all that will do is paint a cross on your back if they find out.

Start interviewing, as soon as you have a position you like, hand in your resignation letter and rotate off. No feelings hurt, nothing unprofessional this simply business.

Remember that you are a professional and your health and happiness of yourself, loved ones and family members is what takes priority over everything else.

Best of luck!

MattPalmer1086 3 years ago | |

I have found that if you're good at what you do, companies would like you to keep doing it. That limits the potential for growth into new positions.

I'm not particularly good at office politics, and corporate performance management is pretty useless. Moving jobs is how I have maximised my growth, experience and pay.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean that this is the right thing to do in this case. Understanding why no pay rise was given is a huge learning opportunity. I would certainly take no pay rise as a signal that the company wasn't happy in some way. Knowing why that is would be very helpful for personal development, whether staying or moving on.

It would help to approach from the position of wanting to improve and asking if improvement in any areas are needed. Maybe they don't have good reasons, maybe they do and were too scared to tell someone known to be abrasive. A bit of humility goes a long way.

Many years ago someone taught me the value of learning from my mistakes. It's not enough to just acknowledge your mistakes, or apologise for them, which is difficult enough. Then you have to do something about it.

fooqux 3 years ago |

> My boss refuses to talk with me about it.

Well, that's a red flag if I ever saw one. It sounds like you already have some areas you know you should be working on, and that's good. But if your boss refuses to talk to you about your career / pay then something is going on. Or maybe you just have a bad boss. Either way, I'd be looking for that reason alone.

m00x 3 years ago |

Maybe you need to learn to work as a team.

Hard work alone won't make you grow your career, you need to be tactful and you need to be a team player. Calling an idea stupid is childish and unprofessional.

If your boss announced that almost everyone else but you got a raise, he probably wants you to quit, just not enough to straight up fire you.

Either find somewhere else or consider this a wake up call to change.

Cd00d 3 years ago |

I don't know why CEOs make these sort of announcements.

Several months ago my CEO mentioned in a townhall that raises would be larger than normal this year due to recognizing inflation.

At the tail end of my reasonable and normal performance review I got by far the smallest raise I've received in close to a decade.

So, I'm job searching, because the clear signal is my contribution is no longer valued. Had the CEO said nothing, I might be telling myself that the company was in hard times or something, but instead I know I'm an outlier.

omgJustTest 3 years ago |

"Bosses refuse to talk to me about it", if you have given them reasonable time to consider your request there are a couple of realities to consider: 1. They may not be able to meet your request (ie their hands are truly tied). This could range from they believe you are already at the upper end of salary 'bins' for your position or they do not have the money. There are many reasons, and you will not know which it is, and whatever you think its likely wrong. 2. They aren't in your corner, at least in this issue, and potentially believe that giving you a raise sends the wrong message about near-term performances (this could include "tough" talk about "stupid" ideas or outright confrontation that is causing them headaches). No "thank you" for working weekends is another example of headache generators as it represents crossing the professional/homelife boundary. Bosses don't want headaches.

You should apply to other positions, it sounds like you are frustrated... or worse get some enjoyment from being frustrated. It is in your best interest to not be this way, and it can give you some illusionary ego boosts that are toxic.

From someone who has treated most jobs like a lifestyle, a job is a job and you shouldn't be more invested than this.

lkxijlewlf 3 years ago |

Yes. But first:

Secure a new job. And while you do that, work on your soft skills. You admit to being "offensive" and yet you want "emotional" support.

stuckkeys 3 years ago |

Someone mentioned below "fuck you money". If you are in a good position financially, you can fuck right off that place and never look back. Take a month off or two. It really does free space in your head. I can only speak from my experience, but it is the best thing that I did. I was making good money, but when you are burnt it really does not matter. Also like someone suggested, around August is when the hiring process gets hot. And yes, job hopping is where you will get most of your pay increase. Never get attached to your job. It is always business. Good luck!

Tade0 3 years ago |

Do you have "fuck you" money?

If the answer is yes then I would still wait until September or so if I were you - summer is slow season in recruitment and the job offers are usually uninspiring.

mikkergp 3 years ago |

1. I've worked with very few people who are smart enough to criticize ideas as "stupid" and the fact that you're in the position you're in suggests you're not one of them. And that's fine! 99.99% of us aren't and I'm not one of them. But there's lots of reasons that people come up with ideas that are different than yours. Maybe they have a different context and are optimizing for different things. Maybe they're less experienced. Maybe they don't think over-optimizing in that case is worth while. Maybe they are stupid! But if you can't communicate with them about that and either get to a better place, you may not be that valuable. Which brings me to point 2.

2. I've worked with very few people who's individual contributions are great enough that it exceeds their contribution/output if they were a technical lead mentoring other engineers. It does happen, people who build libraries and frameworks and solve intractable problems for the business can be great IC-IC's. But it's not most of us. So if you're constantly having non-productive conflict with other engineers, you may be undermining your own productivity, and your value in the eyes of your management.

I guess there's two factors. If you think you can make more somewhere else, go somewhere else. Or if you think you might be fired, time to start looking.

That all being said. I'd love to dig deeper into the fact that you seem value emotional support from your boss, but seem to admit to denying that to your peers.

happymellon 3 years ago |

Sounds a bit shit.

If you can find a better work environment then quit. I wouldn't work weekends without some form of recognition, which is sounds like you are not getting.

brianwawok 3 years ago | |

I mean, why would you give 80% of a company a raise and not this guy? Sounds like maybe he isn't someone they want to keep around long term?

happymellon 3 years ago | | |

Indeed, it sounds like they want him to leave and if he isn't getting on with the other engineers it might be for the best for everyone.

coinbasetwwa 3 years ago |

Just quit dude. I worked and was underpaid while working for a douchebag boss on a scummy team for years and it caused a ton of stress. As long as you have a few months of expenses covered you’ll be fine.

I was trying to “wait till I got an offer” like everyone says and interview during work hours. Eventually a meeting got rescheduled to a time I had an interview, so I told the meeting organizer I couldn’t make it and didn’t show. Then my manager & director started hounding me like a pack of howler monkeys. After I was done with my interviews I got back to them and quit on the spot because they were being jackasses. Then I literally got multiple job offers the next day and had another company compete against them, now I’m making 2x what I was making and everybody is super nice and cool.

Looking back, I wish I had just quit earlier, when you’re in a shitty situation you stay in it hoping it gets better, when you should really just give up and recalibrate your life. There’s no glory in working on a team of uninspiring douchebags.

IdontRememberIt 3 years ago |

Jerome Powell announced an important factor for you during the last FOMC meeting: "We can't allow a wage price spiral to happen."

This means that the FED will certainly increase the unemployment rate and put pressure on companies. Why? Because they do not want a 70s type of inflation auto-fueled by wage increases which is actually already the case in the US but not in Europe.

During a time of layoffs, HR uses generally a LIFO (Last In First Out) list. => Changing job adds risk.

As several have noted: Work is not an individual sport (Forget the tv shows). You need allies. Working on your social skills will increase your income faster than changing job. And it will decrease your probabilities to be fire if (when?) a recession hits.

keikobadthebad 3 years ago |

Don't work weekends, it isn't buying you anything.

No rush, look for a better job. If you find one you would be happier with, just take it if you also get a raise.

pkrotich 3 years ago |

Sounds like you’re a brilliant asshole.

Some developers can sometimes lack the social skills to work cohesively with a team especially if they regard everyone as beneath them when it comes to IQ (stupid).

It’s a good thing you recognize friction points - perhaps it’s something you can work on?

kcplate 3 years ago | |

I can tell you from my experience in management, if a “brilliant asshole” isn’t perceived as being invaluable, they are generally not worth the cultural chaos in the organization they cause. I have exited quite a few extremely smart folks simply because their personalities created toxicity far beyond their value.

gus_massa 3 years ago |

> no "thank you" for working in weekends for example

At least, stop working in weekends. (Unless you can somewhat compensate the hours reducing the time during the other days of the week.)

cm2012 3 years ago |

Don't quit until you have another job offer in hand. But you should start getting job interviews.

z3c0 3 years ago |

Do not quit, but do start interviewing. Once you get a better offer in hand, present it to your boss. If they refuse to match (or outbid) for you, then take the competing offer.

xydinesh 3 years ago | |

I'm not sure if I agree with this approach. I would say ask for a raise without showing you have an offer from another company. If they don't then leave. I feel like it is awkward to show them that you have offer and then stay. But It could be just me.

z3c0 3 years ago | | |

Personally, I don't care if they feel awkward, nor do I care to be perceived as loyal in matters of business. The awkward exchange wouldn't need to happen if they ensured that they're employees felt taken care of. You shouldn't feel accountable for that.

snvzz 3 years ago | |

Uh, no. Just take it and quit.

bluGill 3 years ago |

It can take years to find a job that is better, but you should polish your resume and start looking. In some cases you should tell your boss that you find the last raise offensive and you so you are forced to start looking - they may have options. But in others talking about it will put you first on the lay-off list before you find a new job, and this in turn may force you to accept a job you don't like as much just because you need some income. (even in countries with a safety net you probably like a nicer lifestyle than the safety net will allow)

The important part is once this starts happening nothing will change until enough people - not just you - force the issue by leaving for someplace that treats you better.

You have indicated an awareness that are are not always perfect. I have no idea how bad you are, there are some people that the company would be better off if they left, and the company has decided you are such a person. Maybe you need to reform yourself? I cannot answer that other than to point out everyone has room for improvement.

maerF0x0 3 years ago |

> My boss refuses to talk with me about it.

Get a strong documentation trail going, send an email indicating you need to speak with them about x, you're free anytime they are, send calendar invites etc.

Once you have their explicit refusal or implicit from negligence -- go to skip level (boss of your boss) and be prepared to need to move in the org as retaliation is too likely to risk.

desireco42 3 years ago |

Find another job and then quit for sure and you will get a raise.

It sounds like you already know what the issue is. It will not get better.

On the other hand, you should work on yourself and examine what you can do better (as opposed as blaming you for when things went wrong ie. you snapped at somebody etc).

I would not work on weekends, like, just don't do it, let them hire another dev if they need it.

angarg12 3 years ago |

I'd like to take a step back for a moment here.

I see this pattern in career conversations online. Someone has an issue at work, they ask online if they should quit, and the overwhelming answer is a resounding yes. The problem with this is that this reaction doesn't leave room for introspection. If OP has an underlying issue that's holding them back, they might resolve it by changing companies in the short term, but it will always come back to haunt them if left unaddressed.

Back to your question, I would consider unacceptable to not get at least an inflation meeting raise every year. On the other hand you admit that your behaviour might be at the root of this outcome.

So yes, by all means make your stance clear and start looking for new positions. But before that, do some deep and honest introspection and consider working on yourself. Otherwise we will likely see a similar post in a couple of years complaining about how unfair your new workplace is.

toomuchtodo 3 years ago |

Yes. Start interviewing today.

micromacrofoot 3 years ago |

> and I'm very offensive when it comes to handling projects

Offensive as in aggressive? or offensive as in rude? the latter will only hinder you. You can have a no-nonsense attitude without being annoying.

> no "thank you" for working in weekends for example

stop working weekends if you aren't getting paid for it

mrwh 3 years ago | |

Proactive, rude, driven, suffer-no-fools, fast, unsustainable, etc. There's a lot that "offensive" could mean. I must admit, I'd look askance at anyone I work with describing their approach as "offensive".

hansor 3 years ago | |

offensive as in aggressive/agile/slick/no-nonsense/not lazy

dekhn 3 years ago |

your boss refuses to give you feedback on why you didn't get a pay raise?

email their manager and ask them why you didn't get a pay raise because your manager isn't answering questions.

Also, important: did you clearly indicate you wanted/expected one beforehand?

dv_dt 3 years ago | |

If their company went through a regular pay assessment cycle, and they did not get an inflation adjustment, then they received a pay cut - especially if all other employees received an inflation bump.

Many companies break down a cost of living adjustment separate from a performance increase, and it sounds like at the very least the op should be asking about a missing cost of living adjust.

hansor 3 years ago | |

>Also, important: did you clearly indicate you wanted/expected one beforehand?

yup

dekhn 3 years ago | | |

Yes, this is a skip-level discussion. Don't threaten to leave, or anyhting. Just patiently ask why you're not getting feedback (written or verbal) on why you didn't get a raise. Make it clear you're interested in learning precisely what you need to do to qualify for one.

If at that point they dont' give you actionable feedback, get a competitive job offer and share it with the head of HR at your company along wiht a short note saying that you can't afford to keep working there.

asthar 3 years ago |

It sounds like emotional support from your boss is important to you. It also sounds like your current manager isn't someone who can provide that (refusing to talk validates this). I personally think that your work place should feel psychologically safe and should enable you to thrive (very important for your long-term career success). You are probably feeling let down by this event and your wanting to quit is a fair reaction. You probably should. But I'd recommend making a plan, getting a job somewhere you'll find that emotional support, and then quitting. Also, because the market is kind of weird right now. All the best!

bmk44 3 years ago |

Sounds to me like your abrasive attitude and deficiency in soft skills may have strained your relationships with your boss and coworkers. Improving your interpersonal skills will be very beneficial to you in the long term, even if it does not salvage your current situation.

If I were you, I would just start searching for a new job and make a conscious effort to be easier to work with in your next job. No one likes having to work with jerks, no matter how technically skilled or brilliant they may be. I'm not saying you are a jerk but it sounds like others may see you that way.

dudul 3 years ago |

So many red flags in here.

First, the CEO is an idiot for publicly saying that. This is most likely alienating 20% of the company.

Second, pushing back on stupid ideas is good, but being aggressive and offensive is not. Knowing how to rally people is a critical skill to master. You can be the best technical dev in the world, if you behave like a dick and nobody wants to work with you you won't get far.

Stop working during weekends. All you're doing is normalizing what should be very exceptional.

Finally, the fact that you can't talk to your boss about it is really messed up. It is a clear signal that you need to GTFO.

pc86 3 years ago |

Regarding your last couple points, are you being asked to work on the weekends or are you just doing it? Is the stuff you're doing over the weekends needed for Monday, or is it gold plating stuff that wouldn't otherwise be completed? Said another way, is it affecting timelines positively or is stuff shipping the same day regardless?

Saying either one of "I'm very offensive when it comes to handling projects" or "I often have problem[s] with my team" by themselves would be enough for you not to get any sort of raise IMO (or worse).

chrismcb 3 years ago |

Working weekends? Yeah you should find another job. Often have problems with my team. Yeah you should find another job. No pay raise... Is this a rhetorical question? Without those other red flags, no pay raise is a very good indication you should be looking for another position. There are plenty of options out there. No reason to be stuck in an unhappy job especially one that won't give you a raise (any raise, even over less than inflation)

et-al 3 years ago |

Don't quit right away, but start interviewing and get an offer. You'll be in a better position to negotiate. And you can still quit then.

the-anarchist 3 years ago |

"I'm not afraid to criticize some stupid ideas", "I'm very offensive", "I work hard", "I often have some silly conflicts", "I often have problem with my team".

Yes, you should quit and you should stay as far away from anything that requires social skills whatsoever. And also, what is wrong with you other people here?

apexkid 3 years ago |

Unless you were recently hired, you should look out for another job and quit. The argument that you are already compensated as per market standards only holds true if you were hired less than an year ago. Also, the company should have given you raise even if it was smaller value in percentage terms. Not giving any raise is a clear indication.

sys_64738 3 years ago |

Take a month of vacation then see how they feel afterwards. Either way you're looking for an exit strategy.

rr808 3 years ago |

No pay rise is pretty common in most companies in most years. You should think about what you really want. Do you want higher comp? Or do you want to work less? or a change to a different role? Promotion? Time off? Dont ask us what is best for you.

bluGill 3 years ago | |

I want my pay to keep up with inflation - I understand that with 20 years of experience I'm at the top of where and engineer can get, but if my raises don't match inflation I'm getting a pay cut. If you really mean to give me a pay cut, then be honest about it.

hansor 3 years ago | |

Higher comp. always.

energyguy78 3 years ago |

If they don't respect your opinions anymore , look for another position and take that position. I agree do not just quit.

gitpusher 3 years ago |

As a hiring manager, I interpret this as... you are probably making more than those other people. Possibly at top-of-band for your role, so there's no way to give you more unless you are promoted.

chanux 3 years ago |

Use the current job as a safety net and look for a better.. net. I'm probably repeating but if you are anything like me, you need this repeated a lot. Good luck.

bitL 3 years ago |

New offer with current + >15% salary -> bye bye.

mattwilsonn888 3 years ago |

If you are seriously thinking about quitting you should at least go all out asking for what you think you deserve before quitting.

novateg 3 years ago |

I think it’s not a good time to quit, unless you have enough savings. Ask for a raise

time_to_smile 3 years ago | |

Having gone through a few major recessions in my life and survived (and not) layoffs, I find that the idea that "it's not a good time to quit" is a myth, and potentially a dangerous one. That is assuming "quit" implies having another job lined up (even in the best of times I'm not a big fan of just quitting with nothing lined up)

First off, if you want to change jobs, doing so when people are still hiring is a good idea. It's much easier to change jobs now that it will be in 3 months when other companies start doing layoffs. This stage in the down turn is right before the music stops in a game of musical chairs.

Additionally, at this stage in the down turn, it's impossible to know what's next and how bad it will be and who will be impacted the most. I've known far more people laid off while working at "safe" companies than those knowingly taking risks at smaller companies. Sure some companies will layoff new hires first, but others will layoff older, less productive division, other will look for highest paid employees etc. Nowhere is really safe and only hindsight will tell you what was and wasn't a good move. Best time to join Amazon would have been right after the dotcom burst.

Most important, in the last few down turns I've been through, agility and adaptability where the keys to survival. The "play it safe at a big co/job you know" path, somewhat ironically, only works really well is times of stability. This is a time to keep your eyes open, start thinking about a wide range of next future moves. It's better to jump without hesitation (and be ready to jump again) than look for stable ground.

That said it's more important than ever to do you due diligence on a future employer. Now is not a great time to join a startup run by "kids" (this is not a comment on age, but on maturity) that don't know what they're doing and make rash decisions and are delusional about the future of their product. I was take a hard pass on any crypto companies right now, and on companies that won't talk much about their financials.

_bax 3 years ago |

Wait to quit. Wait for do your daily jobs unless the boss explain its choice.

throwusawayus 3 years ago |

wondering, any culture clash aspect? (did you move to other country for job)

this is tough in US and Canada in my experience. manager has to tread lightly too, or else manager gets fired for sounding xenophobic

snvzz 3 years ago |

>My boss refuses to talk with me about it.

Leave. Find another job, and then quit.

croes 3 years ago |

How often did the others get a raise in the last for years?

hansor 3 years ago | |

Vast majority of them once per year.

kache_ 3 years ago |

Job hop every year :)