Ask HN: Have you experienced decline in problem-solving skills? How to improve?

128 points by Woberto 3 years ago | 150 comments

I think this might actually be a few questions:

  1. Has anybody noticed their own cognitive decline? I'm 30 but am interested in experiences at all ages
  2. Does anybody have a good way of testing their intellect or problem-solving periodically? This would at least help me keep track going forward
  3. Has anybody found ways to improve their problem-solving skills? Or critical thinking?

I feel like my ability to solve problems well - efficiently, cleverly, satisfactorily, completely - has reduced over time (past year, maybe multiple years? I'm not really sure.) For example, I'll find that a programming solution didn't account for things I should've considered or introduced a new bug; or a co-worker will suggest a different solution and it seems obviously better. I don't think this has always been the case; I used to be pretty school smart in subjects like math and comp sci. My theories:

  - Maybe my intellect has diminished from using alcohol and weed at an early age?
  - Maybe that I've been feeling a bit burnt out
  - Maybe I've gotten lazy and rely too much on, e.g., stackoverflow
  - Maybe medicine I take for mental health?
  - Insufficient sleep? I've been getting 6-7 recently but should probably be getting 7-9
  - Maybe I've actually always been dumb and am only now realizing it!

Any thoughts would be appreciated. If it's something I can change, that would be a huge relief.

DamnYuppie 3 years ago |

I am in my mid 40's and recently really noticed this. It felt like some of the teeth in the gears of my mind were worn down and things were slipping.

After complaining about it to some peers I was informed this could be due to low testosterone so I went and had that tested. Apparently my testosterone level was that of a 70 year old man so I started testosterone replacement therapy. I can say that it is a complete game changer! Yes I feel like a shill saying/typing it but it is true. My energy has gone way up and my mind is feels much sharper than it previously was.

To be honest at 30 this may not be an issue for you but I put this out there for others who maybe older I definitely recommend getting tested at a clinic that specializes in testosterone replacement therapy.

fnordpiglet 3 years ago | |

You should investigate clomiphene citrate instead of testosterone directly. Clomid mutes the brains response to estrogen, the final feedback product of the testosterone cycle. This causes the body to produce more testosterone in the testes rather than front loading the cycle. The primary impact is your testes continue to function, while testosterone over time will chemically castrate you.

This has been in use for 60 or so years but isn’t an FDA approved use of clomid. The primary reason is clomid is cheap to produce and not patented. It’s extremely safe and if you shop around you’ll find a urologist that’s aware of it and will prescribe it - but most urologists get marketing benefits from the rather expensive testosterone replacement products so not all are either aware or are willing to forego the lucrative marketing funds.

I switch to this about 10 years ago after starting testosterone for a few months. I wanted to have kids and I was very worried. I researched the biological processes for testosterone and stumbled on clomid as a relatively well known but unmarketed low T therapy. I went to a top urologist at NYU and he ranted about urologists that don’t use clomid. He gave me a prescription and it worked like magic. Two years later I had my first kid. I still take it at a low dose because I feel great. My testosterone levels are high normal range.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182219/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clomifene (other uses section)

adamhearn 3 years ago | | |

Suggesting long term SERM use in replacement of a bio identical testosterone does not seem like the brightest idea. There have been reports of blurred vision, floaters in the eyes, and more (look on pubmed under just about any SERM, but specifically clomid).

In my opinion it would be much safer to suggest recombinant FSH and LH. The brain testes axis seems to have the least amount of atrophy over time from anecdotal experiences of those online and in a few case reports. I do not think HCG should be used long term due to the non-bio identical nature, but it is a good short term LH mimic if my memory serves me correctly. Would be a great addition to a TRT protocol.

tootie 3 years ago | | |

I'm pretty sure the FDA has never denied a drug use application because it's not patentable and that's just a conspiracy theory used by people pushing bogus treatments. If there's peer-reviewed research that it works, it would be prescribed without doctor shopping.

riekus 3 years ago | | |

What is your current dose and frequency? Researching this at the moment while I wait fory T test results

vsareto 3 years ago | | |

>The primary impact is your testes continue to function, while testosterone over time will chemically castrate you.

Anastrozole or HCG (I forget which) should have prevented that

pstuart 3 years ago | | |

I'm intrigued and am going to "do my own research". Thanks for the lead!

300bps 3 years ago | |

I am in my mid 40's and recently really noticed this

Honest question - how much exercise were you getting before you went to testosterone therapy?

The reason I ask is because of the studies that have shown that the decline in testosterone associated with aging is because of poor health, not age. Example:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110607121129.h...

I am in the next decade after you and have noticed no decline. I do heavy weight lifting three days per week and burn about 1,000 calories per day with cardio. That seems to be a sweet spot - too little exercise or too much and your testosterone will take a hit. Rubbish diet will not help though either.

teaearlgraycold 3 years ago | | |

As someone that only recently started exercising after a lifetime of being sedentary - everything they say about exercise is true. If it was a pill it would be the greatest medical discovery of all time and worth trillions of dollars.

DamnYuppie 3 years ago | | |

I have been very active my entire adult life.

Part of what really tipped me off was my energy before and after the gym was much lower than it used to be. Also I would be tired starting around 2 PM in the afternoon, this isn't sleep related as I sleep like a baby, which I am grateful for. Also I never drank coffee or took lots of caffeine so I was perplexed as to why I would just crater in the afternoons.

After starting the treatment I am no longer tired in the afternoons, my mind feels sharper and I can tell I am recalling processing info better. The energy at the gym has improved as well.

sillysaurusx 3 years ago | | |

How do you measure testosterone? You make it sound like you just step on a testosterone scale each morning and take note of the value. If that’s the case, I need to get me one.

radicalbyte 3 years ago | |

Thanks for posting this - I'm having this problem, but I've put it down to having small children, the chronic lack of sleep and the rarely having more than 1 hour time in a week where it's quiet and I can focus. That combined with being totally out of shape (covid + terrible two's).

magicalist 3 years ago | | |

> I'm having this problem, but I've put it down to having small children, the chronic lack of sleep and the rarely having more than 1 hour time in a week where it's quiet and I can focus.

Evidence of testosterone supplementation improving cognitive performance is weak despite many studies.

Evidence of sleep associated with cognitive performance is extensive and well documented.

The (not that helpful in the moment) good news is that kids get older and will eventually sleep more and more independently.

DamnYuppie 3 years ago | | |

I would recommend trying to work on diet/exercise before I would go down the TRT path. If you get those squared away and stress at home is reduced and you still are having the same issues then it maybe something to look into.

blindmute 3 years ago | |

Testosterone has been declining in the population for decades. The reference levels for "normal" 20 year old now include what were, 60 years ago, levels considered too low for a ~60 year old man. It's not an exaggeration to say that at least a third of men have never experienced a normal hormonal level of testosterone. Testosterone affects nearly everything about the male physical and mental state; not only the stereotypical aggression and lust, but also mental clarity, happiness, even health.

ivandenysov 3 years ago | | |

That is fascinating. Where can I read more about this subject?

guenthert 3 years ago | |

Uh, did the doc mention why the testosterone levels could be low to begin with? Diet / "life style choices" / stress / lack of exercise? At mid 40s simply 'age' isn't all that convincing.

What about side / ill effects?

dominotw 3 years ago | |

> I can say that it is a complete game changer!

Could this be a placebo effect. I have low testosterone too. I've been doing "natural" ways by changing diet, cardio/weights, sleeping in a lot, trying to have sex regularly. But my numbers just don't seem to budge.

I think my only options now are TRT or just accept and make peace with it. If I do TRT, my impression is that you have stay on it for life. I am not sure i am ready for that kind of commitment.

DamnYuppie 3 years ago | | |

I 100% feel you as the fear of having to do it forever was a big hold up for me as well. The reality is you can stop whenever you want you will just go back to having less energy etc.

Having done it I can see myself doing it until my late 50's at which point I should have the majority of my adventuring done as well as be out of the workforce so I will probably not be too concerned about lack of energy.

fnordpiglet 3 years ago | | |

See my reply above about clomiphene citrate. I had that same worry. While I still take it I could stop at any time and my body will produce testosterone naturally. TRT is castrating and there are medical alternatives that work.

blindmute 3 years ago | | |

Once you experience a normal level of testosterone, you would not consider for a moment returning to "baseline". The commitment would be like your commitment to having a roof.

bjourne 3 years ago | |

But there are also many drawbacks to TRT. Some have speculated that the reason for womens' longevity relative to men is related to lower testosterone levels.

tylerneylon 3 years ago |

I'm in my 40s and feel sharp, with some evidence to back that up (such as career success and learning new things well). I believe these things help me stay sharp: I prioritize sleep. I try to get exercise (most often running) every day. I try to write every day; I write about ideas (typically new ideas in math or philosophy). I often read something I'm learning, such as a math book, something for work, or learning a new language. I meet weekly (online) with someone who's teaching me a new language - in this case French, but I think what's important is to keep learning. My work presents new technical challenges regularly, and I made a life decision to change my work whenever I feel burnout approaching.

To address other comments: I have two young kids, and I've been a single dad since my youngest was 3. Some commenters speak as if having kids kills your work or thinking life. This is partially true for the first year because of sleep depravation. And it's a new level of difficulty in terms of organizational demand on your life. It's harder. But it doesn't kill your mental abilities, and in fact I'm a happier person with my kids around, which gives me more motivation and life satisfaction. I've been able to solo run a successful bootstrapped startup while being a single dad. It's difficult and requires focus and deliberate life organization, but it's possible, and in fact quite rewarding and nice.

(Also, maybe the above makes it sound like I've had zero problems, but that's not true. It's been a long journey to figure out my priorities, with many mistakes and setbacks to being where I want to be. I have had times when I felt mentally less sharp, and worked to recover from those.)

alibova 3 years ago | |

Wow how do you have time for sleep, exercise, bootstrap start up, learn another language, etc. as a single dad? Any suggestions on life organization? Do you have a team of nannies/house help?

sdnews 3 years ago |

I can relate. Recently I've started working for big company and they have quite complicated and over engineered microservice architecture - the product I'm working on.

What I found is that I'm slowest dev in the team. I can do my work well but I'm spending time improving things that are not important in the scope of the ticket I'm doing.

I've tried to convince myself that this is because I'm trying to address issues with infrastructure but recently I started thinking "maybe that's because I'm getting old, and my performance is declining".

But on the other hand I found that I'm still "clever" and fast and bright if it comes to things that got my interest.

In my case it seems like some kind of middle age crysis. I'm just simply getting bored with programming, I've seen all of those issues before, now it's not different except scale, and I just feel like my effort invested in improving will be like drop in the ocean. Where back in my 20th I would flip everything upside down until I would succeed and make a difference.

What I'm trying to say is: Maybe you just getting bored of those problems... and thinking about mental decline is natural thing in our age.

I'm 37

emaginniss 3 years ago | |

"middle age crysis"

Maybe you're playing too many computer games :)

sophacles 3 years ago | |

> In my case it seems like some kind of middle age crysis.

If you can run crysis, you probably aren't too old and broken down just yet. :P

tobtoh 3 years ago |

One thing to check: Your hearing

I went through a period of life in my late 30s where I felt I was getting stupider. I was struggling to pickup new concepts and get a handle on new situations quickly like I used to. I was made redundant during a 'restructure' and I strongly believe it was due to these issues I was dealing with.

Several months after being made redundant I got my hearing checked - I had moderate hearing loss in the higher frequencies (where speech occurs). After getting hearing aids, it changed my life.

HA made me realise I had been relying on lip reading and context to understand what was being said. When I encountered new technology/concepts, I didn't have pre-existing base knowledge or context to 'fill in the gaps' of my hearing.

HA reversed all of the issues I had previously been experiencing.

jamal-kumar 3 years ago | |

That's freaky this can happen in your 30s. I should really consider turning the volume down in my earbuds.

They are actually developing a drug which regrows the cilia in your cochlea which is pretty interesting [1]

[1] https://news.mit.edu/2022/frequency-therapeutics-hearing-reg...

throwaway2037 3 years ago | |

Wow, this is a superb post. Have you blogged about this experience? I am sure many on HN would be interested to learn more! I have lost hearing from dance clubs. I am always the first person in a moderately noisy setting to say "Huh / What / Can you say again?" When I dine out, I try to sit side-by-side. It is so much better for me than across a table!

scottLobster 3 years ago |

Also in my 30s, one thing I found that improved my focus/cognition more than I ever expected was strength training and exercise in general. I had never exercised regularly until a couple of years ago, and after two months of 2-3 times a week strength training with some cardio mixed in my brain felt like it was 20 again.

YMMV, but that and adequate sleep was what really did it for me. Also go easy on the alcohol, see if you can restrict it to once a week. Chronically imbibing even low amounts of depressants tends to, well, depress cognitive function. The enlightenment was driven by coffee and tea, not beer.

worker_person 3 years ago |

Yes. Got to the point that I was taking dementia medication. A loop was a major challenge for me.

After a few years it came down to two issues. I had a clotting disorder. (Factor 5 Leiden) I was suffering minor strokes (TIA) without knowing it. I had high cranial pressure (IIH), which leads to brain fog.

When I started blood thinners, and got IIH under control It was like a flip was switched. Problems that had been taking me weeks of work were done in minutes.

chaostheory 3 years ago | |

This is for everyone else since hindsight is 20/20, but heavy and consistent cardio exercise can help prevent issues like this. That and keeping your weight on the lighter side.

worker_person 3 years ago | | |

For the IIH. You are sometimes correct. Weight is usually, but not always the issue. Its kind of a checkmark in things you should be doing.

An interesting pattern is IIH can prevent exercise. I spent years getting a major headache and brain fog for a week after each workout session.

For Factor 5 Leiden. Sometimes genetics just says you're screwed. Nothing other then blood thinners was going to matter for this one.

karmakurtisaani 3 years ago |

Just wait until you have kids. Your mental capacity will nosedive and you have no time to worry about it. Just hope that no one notices!

jeanvaljean2463 3 years ago |

In my own experience there was a precipitous decline in my job performance related critical thinking around 32-34 ( I'm 36 now ) that I chalk up to a variety of factors:

    - Stress 
    - Family obligations
    - Not enjoying the work I do anymore
    - Solving the same problems over and over because I can't fix the org that produces them.
    - Solving the above problems in a new technology.
    - Crappy co-workers that I don't want to interact with
    - Giving my best to people and projects that never give back.
    - Making creative solutions that the client doesn't use because the clients are broken beyond my paygrade to solve them.

I burned out really badly around 5-6 years ago and it took a long time to recover. I feel better now mainly because I've stopped working on software projects in my spare time and now do manual labor on large project on some land I bought in my spare time. It's insanely satisfying to see the fruits of my labor add up over time without deprecation or having to do work every time an upstream project changes things or feeling "less than" about my work. My work speaks for itself on the land and it pleases me, no one else's approval required. ( Something I never felt about the software projects I worked on. ) It's also fun to talk to non-tech folks about the work because they usually have good suggestions about how to do something better that, for the most part, they give constructively.

My only advice/thoughts would be maybe take a step back. Do you TRULY enjoy what you are doing? In my own experience, it's hard to motivate yourself to work on things that you don't truly care about as you get older. Solving other people's problems was fun until I realized the entire world ( including the billionaires that have "made it" ) are mostly just people getting along and aren't necessarily more capable or knowledgeable than me. Some people get lucky with timing, tenaciousness, and talent... it's probably too late for me, but that's okay.

phonescreen_man 3 years ago |

Surprised no one mentioned it. Sugar. If I eat a lot of candy or sweets for example on a weekend, my logical faculties always seem low. Pattern matching and quick thinking is replaced with scatter brain. Booze is a lot worse of course. Weed seems to do other things, can help with creative out the box thinking but sometimes that’s not what you need.

aszantu 3 years ago | |

I get that with caffeine and milk. Recently with milk only. Trying around with alkohol-free beer now. But also feel slightly tired after drinking it

Rury 3 years ago |

It's hard to stay motivated/sharp if you feel sick, fatigued, achey, etc. So I recommend taking a close look at your health... more specifically how you actually physically feel day to day, alongside looking for potential causes. Keep a health journal if you have to. Believe it or not, most people don't realize how some things subtly affect them.

Take this for example. Every couple of weeks or so, I noticed my stomach would ache, and bowel movements would burn. Wasn't sure why, but it turns out, it entirely coincided with me chewing gum or lying down after a large meal. Ceasing to do these things removed these acid reflux symptoms I'd occasionally get. Now I don't have this problem anymore.

Another example. I use to get migraines with aura almost every weekend. Again, wasn't sure why until I figured out it was due to my caffeine consumption. I use to drink coffee during weekdays at work, but would avoid caffeine otherwise. This meant I would undergo a caffeine withdrawal every weekend, and it in turn would trigger my migraines. So I cut out all caffeine from my diet (including chocolate) 2 years ago, and I haven't had a migraine since. I now sleep easier, focus better, and my mood is more stable.

Both of these changes have improved how I feel, which in turn have improved my stress tolerance and motivation for things, which I think has helped me on cognitive tasks. Maybe there are similar changes you can find and make.

p0nce 3 years ago |

> 3. Has anybody found ways to improve their problem-solving skills? Or critical thinking?

For me nothing ever beats running and the associated runners's high. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4915811/

Probably you could analyze how so-called β-hydroxybutyrate is synthesized and eat precusors too before going.

throwaway2037 3 years ago | |

I agree: For me, the primary focus of exercise is high intesity to trigger huge dopamine releases ("runner's high"). It is my legal drug of choice. Plus, I try to visualise past high quality athletic performances to get my mind in the right place. Running / cycling / swimming (tri-) helps me the most, but I heard that people can also trigger huge dopamine releases through strength training -- hitting new max weights is very inspiring to them.

ironlake 3 years ago | |

I never get a high from running or any other kind of exercise.

tumetab1 3 years ago | | |

For me getting "high" from running is pretty hard. Bicycle rides in the other hand, pretty easy... just need to pick some speed :)

I bet some people get "high" on messing others lives :D you just need to seek yours :)

bri3d 3 years ago |

Early 30s here: focus has been the most important thing for me, and the resource that's been in the greatest decline.

I used to be able to multi-task to the point that I never really had to explicitly consider what I was doing: I could address everything, everywhere, well enough to not worry about it. I didn't have to reject incoming tasks or make a list and plan for my day, because I could meander through and come out the other side successful.

Now I am probably just as capable as I was at an earlier age, and in many areas more capable, but I need to manage my focus explicitly as a resource. I can only do so much in a day, now. This means I need to explicitly reject work which I am not able to do, make lists, and maintain a personal backlog and "actively working" section.

Make sure if you do this that you consider your personal life and obligations at least as important, if not more important than your work ones, or you can also easily tunnel vision into work tasks.

Also, with respect to your comments about programming solutions and co-workers - consider that you may have just moved up in the world, and are now solving harder problems with more experienced people.

throwaway4aday 3 years ago |

45 minutes of sustained aerobic exercise at least 3 times a week or every day ideally if you can fit it in. The method of action is probably neurogenesis in the hippocampus which is the brain region responsible for forming new memories but may also play a dominant role in associating information that the brain is already storing with new information aka problem solving.

https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=aerobic+exercise+and+neu...

https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_vis=...

mettamage 3 years ago | |

Other than running any ideas on what aerobic exercise I should do?

Cycling and swimming are the only ones that come to mind.

throwaway4aday 3 years ago | | |

Anything that will get your heartrate into zone 2 and keep it there for the duration of the exercise. It really depends on what you prefer to do since being consistent with it is the most important thing. If you're unsure, you could always join a gym with a decent selection of equipment and try each of the machines for a week and see which one you feel like sticking with. If you don't want to go to a gym then your options are more limited, pretty much just the ones you listed.

If you don't really do any exercise at all at the moment I'd recommend starting with just walking for 45 minutes, you'll need to do that or some other low intensity exercise for a while to build up to being able to doing 45 minutes of fairly intense cardio. Do a search on YouTube for "how to start running" and you'll find a lot of good plans that you can use and they generalize pretty well to other types of cardio.

balaji1 3 years ago | | |

Sports should count towards aerobic right? It is hard to find partners and teammates as we age. So individual sports like tennis, squash, etc. Seen plenty of older folks playing those also.

I think forms of martial arts are also fun and sustainable long term. Cycling as a group also good fun.

akeck 3 years ago | | |

I row on a Concept II.

yboris 3 years ago |

This probably depends on area of concern. Mathematicians seem to be best in their youth (though of course they can continue amazing work into their late age). Philosophers are often able to write their best work in later stages of their lives.

I know a day (or few) after use of marijuana, when I speak, I'll have to pause for a bit to remember a word I had intended to say. I suspect this can affect problem solving skills too, but so far none of my coding seems to have been affected. Weed seems to me an acceptable trade-off (enjoyment / temporary mental degradation).

claytongulick 3 years ago |

I'm in my late 40's, and have been thinking about this a lot.

I've definitely noticed changes, but I'm not sure what they mean, if there's a decline, or just a change.

I notice that I tend to think more before doing.

I reply slower, I try to fully form a complete response and think about what was said before I answer. It takes time. My answers are slower, but (I think) higher quality.

I'm less self assured. I'm acutely aware of my limits, and I've long since left behind the pressure to prove myself.

I don't boast anymore, but used to in my 20's and 30's.

I don't feel the need to be "the best" anymore.

I disagree with the "strong opinions, loosely held" philosophy.

I'm better at listening.

I'm not as snappy as the kids in clever conversations. But I also don't do all the dumb things that they do.

I purposefully slow down my coding. I've had to deal with the pain of "stream of consciousness" code bases too many times. I spend about ten times as much time thinking than coding, and I'm ok with it. Sometimes I won't "do anything" for days, and just let my brain gnaw on a problem until a very clear solution presents itself. The result is less complex, higher quality, and better performing code.

I'm approaching 50, and have come to understand that my role in society isn't to compete with the 20 and 30 year olds, it's to think differently, and to support them.

tumetab1 3 years ago |

Felt the same but I think we were both wrong :D

"I used to be pretty school smart in subjects like math and comp sci" probably means that you felt smarter than some/many due to your surroundings (it's always in comparison with others).

That perception gradually is being corrected but it messes with your self image. You weren't that smart, as in, imagine now trying to learn the easy things that learned at that time... you would still be great at it :)

The problems are harder, life is harder, your peers are better and it is all a bit less exciting because you have seen it before.

Thing to do: * Improve your energy/capacity management. If you're tired, relax don't try to brute-force as it's usual when young. I sometimes half listening to a podcast, execute tests and read an article. Other times I low on energy/capacity I need silence, close HN and just focus on code.

* Find other things to excite you at your job... Maybe having junior devs be happy that you're helping them light a spark again.

* Do individual/team sports. Whatever allows you to clean your mind from work/tech and be excited to do it.

> Does anybody have a good way of testing their intellect or problem-solving periodically?

Join a code challenges site. You will find that you're pretty good at the easier levels :D And you can retest it regularly.

I sometimes used to a quick sleep deprivation test just to be sure that I was slow due to lack of sleep. I use to throw a pen in the air and catch it after 3 turns, it was very obvious the days where I needed sleep.

JohnHaugeland 3 years ago |

Psychiatry observes that in the 20s, most people cannot see their own failures, but in their 30s, most people can.

Think about someone you know who is around your age, and who you knew in your and their early 20s. Now, imagine them creating something that's fit to their personality. Programming, cooking, writing, whatever. Assume that what they created is pretty good for them, and fairly good for everyone. My personal experience with people suggests that the 20s version will be exaggeratedly proud, whereas the 30s person will be asking contemporaries for advice on how to improve.

My personal belief is that this is driven by the 20 year old thinking the work is genuinely great, and the 30 year old thinking "geez, I could do better than this, have I been wasting my talent?"

I would wager that it's likely that you're simply becoming more discerning. It's unsettling, but positive, in the net.

Genuine cognitive decline is currently believed by medical science to kick in in the late 40s or early 50s for most people.

Another significant possibility is sleep quality, which for some people declines drastically in the 30s (often tied to weight.) Sleep quality has a huge amount to do with cognitive performance. Do you wake up tired a lot? Do you snore? Have you ever been checked for sleep apnea, which a little over a third of humanity has? My getting a CPAP really deeply changed my mental state. My doctor said that they thought I hadn't had a genuinely good sleep in more than a decade. It takes about a month to start feeling okay again.

It is genuinely worth talking to a good doctor about this. They will be much better than the wisdom of the crowds.

renewiltord 3 years ago |

I had a dip at one time. Solutions attempted (linearly in path):

- Adderall: task execution increased, but general success did not

- Caffeine: same as above

- Spend more time with all friends, weighted higher for closest: Positive pleasant experience. Work performance did not improve

- Better Sleep Timing: Mood improved, but general success did not

- Sleep Tracking: Watch revealed low pulse ox. Sleep Apnea tracking device did not. However, deviated septum and enlarged turbinates. Intervention (anti-allergy meds period of use not over and surgery I did not follow up on)/

- Exercising regularly: Got addicted to this (1x Barry's a day for 60 days, my weight lifting numbers at end - I already knew how - 375 lb DL, 275 lb back squat, 225 lb front squat, 175 lb bench [lame], 135 lb C&J, 105 lb snatch). Work outcome dropped - I'd rather hit the next PR than submit a PR, if you will

- Diet modification: Attempted zero-sugar, attempted high-greens+high-meat, attempted ice-cream-only (no significant change except lost weight), attempted take-out-only (gained time, but wasted the gained time)

- Switched job: Quitting had the best outcome on mental health. Performance did not spike at new job.

- Switched out of remote to in-office: Massive improvement in mental health and performance.

I can't guess at what your experience is, but this is a summary of my raw experience. For background info, I am in my 30s, live in San Francisco, and I am fortunate to have lots of friends across backgrounds and genders to whom I am as important as they are to me - this part was important since it provided a base level of self-esteem through their support. Completely normative otherwise.

balaji1 3 years ago |

I do feel the decline as I get older. A few reasons I believe are the reasons -

- Too much information overload. I consume way too much info and infotainment that are not core to my life or work.

- Not having enough time and bandwidth to work on a project. Life has more competing priorities. And lot more admin work in life - especially in the US where you cannot outsource anything - physical or mental chores.

- Also agree with your last theory to an extent - or at least accepting my limitations more now instead of trying to "self-improve" everything. We are all led to believe we need to be a supreme individualist generalist. There is no community or mentors to rely on.

- Expectation of perfection on everything. So stuck without much progress.

simonw 3 years ago |

I had a nasty car accident a few years ago and felt like my memory wasn't as good afterwards (despite tests from medical professionals that disagreed with me on that).

I addressed this by developing new, very detailed note-taking habits. Absolutely anything I work on now happens in a private or public GitHub issues thread. I take notes on my progress constantly - decisions I've made, dead ends I've explored, things I need to do next.

Whether or not I actually have any memory problems this approach has been a huge boost to my productivity. I wish I'd worked like this for my whole career.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3 years ago |

In my late thirties, I noticed a decline in my problem solving ability.

However, I began to exercise more, and get good sleep, and also worked on problems that were more interesting to me, and I found that not only did my problem solving ability not decline when compared to my younger self, it was actually better since I could bring years of knowledge and experience to bear on the problems.

Sometimes, there is a lot of fatalism about growing older, however, if you can take of your body, you can find you are often better than you were at a younger age.

colechristensen 3 years ago |

I had a minor head injury in a car accident and definitely noticed a decline.

Ways to cope:

1) accept it and don't attach yourself to a probably inflated sense of what you were capable of before

2) take care of yourself in the food, sleep, exercise, stress, and stimulation departments. especially valuable is doing things that stimulate your brain in entirely different ways like playing music or doing artwork or some mentally involved task that isn't the same as your day job

3) medication absolutely can have these kinds of effects, you have to weigh the costs and benefits

4) get better and more organized at the practice of problem solving, if you're having trouble doing it without thinking about it, create a system. Checklists, playbooks, or any other sort of organized framework where you have a plan with steps how to solve a problem,

5) each day take time to reflect on that day. what went well, what didn't, what you'd like to change and ideas of how to change it

In the end, often things that were easy get harder with time and that can be mitigated by being a little more intentional about trying to do well at what you want to do. Also, give yourself a break!

thecleaner 3 years ago |

Sleep comes to mind the first thing. I prioritise it and regularly clock 8hrs (I dont have kids). Perhaps stop the alcohol and weed ? One hack is to drag yourself to the gym. Bad habits would have to away or you won't be able to lift shit. Anecdotally I have been lifting for like 1.5months now and I do notice that I can think more calmly and patiently now. Not sure if they are correlated.

karmakaze 3 years ago |

My problem solving skillset is different.

I'm slower dealing with large volumes of detail or tasks, typing, reading, etc.

I'm better at deeper work involving higher level concepts and how it connects to lower ones, inter-related domains, reducing the solution space while covering the problem space etc.

I find the best way for me to improve is avoid being clever for its own sake. Instead tackle each problem and produce the simplest thing that does what you need it to do. This doesn't mean the easiest way to get the result making additive spaghetti, I mean the most compact representation that covers all cases old, current, and immediately foreseeable. You'll know that you've done it well when someone sees the whole thing and goes 'meh'. Or when they ask what about A, or what about B, and you have a quick way to describe how each fits in that might not have been immediately apparent to the asker.

The great advantage of working this way is that when you do actually need a big solution, it will be solving a huge problem because the big problems were solved with small solutions.

sershe 3 years ago |

I am in my late 30ies and few years ago I started to occasionally "lose" words. Never happened before... like the other day I couldn't remember the word raccoon. "Trash panda! Dumpster bandit! Badger? No. Beaver? No. Definitely not coyote. What was it?" the word just legit wasn't there when I needed it. My mind was wandering around it in the concept space, but couldn't find it until I googled. Affects both my native language and English.

It happens maybe once a week or even more rarely, but the scary part is what it symbolizes. The sack of shit that my mind uses for life support is starting to glitch! And I remember exactly how it feels for it to not be glitching. It's all downhill from here, but how fast?

I do exercise a lot and eat healthy, no kids, ok sleep, so it's also kinda depressing to read the comments - no obvious easy fixes to try!

agentultra 3 years ago |

I find overall cognition in myself to be fairly elastic. There were periods when I was raising my kids where the sleep deprivation took a huge toll on everything I did. However I did eventually recover and learned quite a bit about logic, proof, and type theory in the following years. I think I'm a lot stronger as a developer now than I used to be.

I went through a period of burnout a couple years ago. That had a strong effect on my mood, energy levels, and interfered with my short-term memory a lot. However I've recovered from that too.

Best thing you can do is stay rested, eat well, and get a therapist. Stress can play a huge role in our lives and managing our emotional states is as important as our physical ones to overall mental health. It can be good to have a coach in your corner to help you recognize patterns and behaviours. They can often offer helpful guidance on how to manage them to achieve the outcomes you desire.

MrUssek 3 years ago |

This post feels identical to one that I had been considering writing for a while now.

I'm nearly 28, and the past ~4 months have felt like I have been suffering from acute brain fog. And not even regarding challenging topics; most of the decline feels concentrated in parsing relatively simple logical statements and arguments. I used to be able to do this without any difficulty, and now, suddenly, it feels like it requires conscious effort. I too feel like I used to be decent at math and computer science. It's gotten so bad that I'm wondering if this is an actual medical condition (perhaps there is lead in my water? perhaps I have long COVID?).

As far as testing intellect (2), apparently it's not so far out of the ordinary to request a clinical psychologist to administer an IQ test. Additionally it's easy to get tests from Mensa or other organizations. I've been considering doing this for a while myself, but have delayed due to anxiety over the result. IQ tests are evaluated against individuals of the same age, so it won't tell you how you compare against people of other ages (including your younger self), but you can probably compare against earlier aptitude tests you have taken to see if there is a decline. I get the whole IQ discussion gets toxic really fast, so I'll just say I'm not endorsing any of the rhetoric or ideas that co-occur when people start talking about it.

For (3) I think the research on this is rather grim. I don't have time to come up with a good survey, but I'm sure the "rationalists" among us will happily chime in. I think the consensus is that it is possible to increase abilities in a narrow domain and only for a short amount of time.

I have to admit that this has been a very hard thing to come to terms with. I've already felt my work performance suffer, and I'm not sure if there is anything I can do about it. I've been exercising regularly for years now, and recently got my sleep habits in check, but to no avail.

meowfly 3 years ago | |

I suspect there is something going on with the number of people I see describe brain fog symptoms. If you look at google trends there was a marked increase in 2020 (probably covid related?).

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=b...

positivejam 3 years ago |

I don't mean to be alarmist and I have no idea what the likelihood is, but one thing you didn't list as a possible cause is something that has changed in your brain. When I was 32 I started noticing an increase in typing mistakes and having some cognitive trouble. Later that year I had a seizure, got an MRI, and found out I had a brain tumor.

You're probably fine, but in addition to asking HN I'd recommend asking a doctor. After having surgery to remove the cancer, I also got a cognitive psych eval (several hours of testing) to establish a baseline. They were able to estimate the degree of decline I'd experienced due to surgery.

throwaway957234 3 years ago |

I'm in my mid-30s. Single, no kids. I noticed I've lost a lot of motivation and mental sharpness during the pandemic.

It isn't a covid "brain fog;" I got it too recently for that.

I think I got a lot out of working in the office. I don't have many friends, so I got a lot of my social interactions there. I'm single, so I didn't fall back to the married couple thing, and I'm old enough that I didn't want to spend the pandemic with my parents, and I'm not close enough with them for that, anyway. I suspect it's loneliness and depression, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

nick__m 3 years ago |

Here are my awnsers:

  1. Has anybody noticed their own cognitive decline? I'm 30 but am interested in experiences at all ages

I am 40yr old and still feel as mentally sharp as I was in my 20's but I have a lot less endurance, I used to be able to do deepwork for an almost infinite amount of time and nowadays I have 6 hours in a good day.

Also when my wife had cancer my sharpness at work really dropped but it came back with her remission, stress is awful on the mind and the body.

  2. Does anybody have a good way of testing their intellect or problem-solving periodically? This would at least help me keep track going forward

How much I am solicited to solve random problem at work is my indicator that I am still sharp. I have become a true full stack debugger and my stack start with the Fibre channels, between the SAN and the VMs hosts, and end in the browser !

  3. Has anybody found ways to improve their problem-solving skills? Or critical thinking?

Push-ups and reading as much technical material as I can.

  - Maybe my intellect has diminished from using alcohol and weed at an early age?

Alcohol and weed effect are temporary, unless you are a morbidly alcoholic

  - Maybe that I've been feeling a bit burnt out

Maybe! From experience burnout or intense stress has a dramatic negative effect on mental sharpness and motivation

  - Maybe I've gotten lazy and rely too much on, e.g., stackoverflow

I have no theory on that, except that I usually read manual before resorting to stack overflow.

  - Maybe medicine I take for mental health?

If your medicine has a significant anticholinergic component (paxil is one of the worst https://www.theseniorlist.com/medication/anticholinergic-dru... and that list is not extensive as they says), you have your culprit.

  - Insufficient sleep? I've been getting 6-7 recently but should probably be getting 7-9

I too sleep 6 to 7 hours a night but I feel like it the amount of sleep I need. If you feel that you need more sleep, do so !

  - Maybe I've actually always been dumb and am only now realizing it!

I don't know you so I cannot say for sure but since you noticed your decline, it's unlikely!

scrapheap 3 years ago |

First of all - things change, you aren't the person you were in the past (this isn't a good or bad thing, it's just what happens).

Some things will decline, but what declines in one person will differ to another.

Some things will improve, importantly your knowledge base will improve (a good knowledge base is an older coder's superpower).

Before comparing your problem solving abilities with your past-self have a look at what your past-self was doing. I suspect that when you look back at it you'll find that the problems they were solving were simpler problems, had a narrower scope or ran in more stable environment.

Tevias 3 years ago |

Small anecdote: Back in 2017 when Zelda: Breath of the Wild came out, I was able to easily solve the labyrinths. I had all the turns I took in mind and was easily able to backtrack. Back then it was a walk in the park. When I tried to do the same labyrinths a few weeks ago, I was heavily struggling. I wasn’t able to keep all the paths in mind and lost easily the orientation which surprised me quite a lot. Of course can also be attributed to a varying mental state but nevertheless it scared me a bit about the apparent loss of certain cognitive abilities.

travoltaj 3 years ago |

I find it varies a lot from day to day and time to time. It probably has to do with a combination of sleep, food, type of contexts and tasks I'm working in, distractions (active and passive/background), and probably other factors.

I've considered and tried to optimize it so that I'm working clos to the peak, but then decided that'd be too much effort and too restrictive, and instead try different things (music, isolation, gaining context, writing/thinking, approaching the work in different ways etc) when I feel I'm not working well

mbrodersen 3 years ago |

I am 50+ and no not at all. Quite the opposite. Having 25+ years of experience in very different software development contexts makes most things super easy to figure out. I have either done something similar before, or I have proven general solutions that can be easily applied to specific cases. Having said that, I also very carefully manage my diet and exercise. Learning as much as I can about keeping my body and mind healthy. That might be a reason as well?

1-6 3 years ago |

I think as people age, its easier to get distracted. However, age does make people better at conceptualizing a bigger picture rather than focusing on individual pieces.

he0001 3 years ago |

I’m much older than you, and I don’t feel any of what you are describing. I’m taking on harder and harder problems, and in fact I believe I’m improving. I’m doing all R&D for my dept as none of my colleagues do/want or can do this. I’m usually the one people go to when they have problems. I haven’t used drugs, stopped drinking alcohol couple of years back and workout regularly. When I feel slow, it’s usually due to bad or little sleep.

caseyf 3 years ago |

do you struggle with anxiety? that will make clear thinking difficult

if so: therapy, meditation/mindfulness, exercise, and talking to a doctor about medication

mamcx 3 years ago |

A little aside: Accept and enjoy the slow path.

You can't run fast as before, but exist a lot of value in pay attention to the road, something that being younger rarely happened.

The past experience also helps to be faster: You know what to avoid or have develop a proven way to solve things.

Also, learn to rest well. Is more than just sleep, maybe the rest of the day is attempting to be too hectic and now is not the time for that.

psyc 3 years ago |

Mid 40’s and no, I haven’t noticed this. If anything I’m still taking on increasingly greater challenges. I also drank heavily until becoming sober 8 years ago, and smoked truckloads of weed in my twenties. I would investigate circumstantial, health, and mental health explanations first, well before I thought about it being age or brain damage.

sbrother 3 years ago |

I'm fairly useless at IC work right now with two kids under 5. I was getting smarter again as the first got more independent and I got more sleep, but now we have another newborn. Just hoping I can coast on previous accomplishments until either I move full-time to management or the kids get older and I'm able to think straight again.

frogger8 3 years ago |

Similar experience in thirties. 46 years old now. Brain fog hit me hard. If I didn’t get a 15mg Adderall prescription I would probably make a third of what I make now.

Btw, I tried everything to solve this without Adderall. For over the counter I recommend L-tyrosine but careful with potential anger side affects.

Edit, active cyclist. Category 3, sometimes win races.

granshaw 3 years ago |

Exercise in the morning can help - you may feel tired immediately after but for many it provides an energy boost for the day

jhoechtl 3 years ago |

Stop using find in pdfs but instead read the thing.