Ask HN: Is there any worthwhile management training out there?

27 points by thatsamonad 3 years ago | 12 comments

Hi HN,

I recently made the move from technical lead to full-blown engineering manager about 6 months ago. I was aware at the time that I’d be using a different set of skills than what I was used to when I was doing technical work. That being said, I picked up some of my technical skills and knowledge by attending some quality trainings, online courses, etc, so I know those kinds of things are out there for technical topics.

Are there any good/quality training courses or learning paths for engineering managers out there that you would recommend? A lot of the things I’ve been exposed to so far are pretty “fluffy”, so I’m hoping to find some good resources that will aid me in building the skills I need to help my team succeed.

afryer 3 years ago |

High level: https://personalmba.com/management/

Management is the act of coordinating a group of people to achieve a specific goal while accounting for any Change or Uncertainty.

These are the six principles of Management:

    1. Recruit the smallest group of people that can do the job quickly and effectively. 
    2. Communicate clearly the End Result, who is responsible for what, and the current status.
    3. Treat people with respect. Use The Golden Trifecta consistently.
    4. Create a productive Environment, and then let people do their work.
    5. Have an aggressive plan to complete the project, but don’t have unrealistic expectations regarding certainty and prediction.
    6. Measure what you’re doing to see if it’s working, and make the necessary adjustments and Experimentations.

Concepts applied: Comparative Advantage, Communication Overhead, Commander's Intent, Reason Why, Bystander Apathy, Golden Trifecta, Importance, Clanning, Environment, Guiding Structure, Cognitive Switching Penalty, Change, Uncertainty, Planning Fallacy, Parkinson's Law, Tradeoffs, Measures, Key Performance Indicators, Economically Valuable Skills, Five Parts of Every Business, Friction (among others)

Medium level: I like the handbook from Gitlab for looking at interesting Management Artifacts you might produce (https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/engineering/)

Low level: Might want to search for curriculum from "Masters of Engineering Management" courses and find role-model mentors. Good luck!

kjellsbells 3 years ago |

My experience has been that too many management training courses have an Idea Metaphor that they then try to warp reality to. If you are lucky, its merely cringe ("be a warrior monk!"). If you are unlucky, its actively harmful. I assert that this forcing of metaphors on trainees is the #1 reason why corporate mgmt training feels like such a high mental friction game.

I would suggest that the best training is one that takes a world view that you are already somewhat sympathetic to and expands your thinking. So for example I've drawn some inspiration from commentary in the Gita about focusing on the task at hand, not attaching too hard to the outcome, because of my cultural background, but Ive also read Jung and found it useful to think about the ways organizations build up a common store of mental state like a collective unconscious. That worked for me, but your background and interests will be different. Reading fiction, strangely, also helped me, esp when I started to manage more diverse teams. It can be easier to reason about fictional characters than real people sometimes, like a practice runin a sandbox.

dfcowell 3 years ago |

This is a fantastic question that doesn’t get asked enough by new managers. Great to see you’re actively trying to build the management skill set!

Manager Tools is great for the “nuts and bolts” of management, regardless of industry. They have a book and paid membership, but start with the podcast hall of fame/HOF episodes to see if their methodology works for you: https://www.manager-tools.com/all-podcasts?field_content_dom...

More engineering-specific, The Manager’s Path (book) is fantastic.

Radical Candor (book) is excellent when working out how to build relationships, coach and communicate effectively with your team.

If you’re working in a multicultural environment The Culture Map (book) is very helpful.

I’d also recommend joining this Slack community to find a wealth of wisdom from experienced engineering managers, and to share your journey with other newcomers: https://engmanagers.github.io/

Good luck, and welcome aboard!

mattbrewsbytes 3 years ago |

Some good suggestions in here. You're in a role dealing with people, their emotions, egos, life outside work, etc. - its not science and there aren't formulas as much as all the guru's out there selling books/courses will tell you.

You need to approach any management/business training with the idea that there are some models/ideas that will work for you and some won't. Don't take any of them as a prescription for certain outcomes. Try to read competing approaches/ideas and see what you think works well.

smt88 3 years ago |

Mentorship is worth much more than any of those training courses. If you can't find one internally, your city might have a meetup for engineers-turned-managers to discuss their issues.

roey2009 3 years ago |

I would recommend books. Psychology (Deep Work Rules, Thinking fast and slow) , sociology, theology (Buddhist, Confucianism, Tasoism, Alan Watts), Ethics and Philosophy (Stoicism, Ego is the Enemy, Bruce Lee), Communication Techniques (Non-Violent Communication, Brief)

etc, etc. Eventually, constant shared truths that you will find in all of these fields will occur to you, and you will develop an organic leadership based on grounded knowledge of yourself.

Everything else is either a band aid or supplementary, in my opinion.

jsmith99 3 years ago |

The brain is not a fully understood or exactly specified system so much of of the management 'science' is indeed fuzzy but it's still better than nothing. Look for articles on how to listen and coach, such as encouraging open conversations and avoiding making people feel threatened.

gadders 3 years ago |

This is a pretty good weekly newsletter that collates some great articles on tech management: https://softwareleadweekly.com/

romanhn 3 years ago |

If you haven't read it yet, I think The Manager's Path by Camille Fournier is probably among the most practical books on engineering management out there.

jnash 3 years ago |

Study history. More specifically the management techniques used by the Royal Navy when it was at its peak.

walterbell 3 years ago |

Dale Carnegie Course (original version, unchanged for decades, in person).

sys_64738 3 years ago |

There is no better training than getting an MBA. Those who rail against it don't understand it as it will give you a fantastic grounding.