PayPal blocked Flipper Zero account with $1.3M(twitter.com) |
PayPal blocked Flipper Zero account with $1.3M(twitter.com) |
Do Ukrainian citizens not deserve a life free of a war of aggression caused by Russia's invasion? Sanctions are mild inconvenience for Russian citizens compared to what Russia's government is imposing to the Ukrainian citizens. Not that I would defend Paypal though, they are a shitty company.
Russian citizens can earn an honest living after Russia leaves Ukraine and pay trillions in reparations as the result of the killings and the destruction in Ukraine.
Notice the quotes and asterisk around the phrase special military operation.
From a follow-up tweet in that thread: “ We refer to these events using the "officially approved" wording in order to comply with the new law, violation of which is punishable by up to 15 years in prison.”
[0]https://twitter.com/flipper_zero/status/1503384492731510792?...
Yes, Russia bombing civilians in Ukraine certainly is a human right violation indeed, that's the collective punishment Russia's government is imposing on Ukrainians citizens.
Russia is punishing its own citizens as well they'll have to collectively pay Ukraine back of all the destruction their government caused, for the centuries to come, after Putin is long dead.
Islam isn't a nationality.
No information was given. After the 180 days "freeze" period, they announced that the funds would not be returned, ie: they stole the money.
We lawyered up. Their legal team refused to acknowledge official communications from our lawyers, citing "Customer Privacy Protection".
When we turned up the heat, we were told that our French lawyers (for a French company, and a French account) had no jurisdiction - the account was managed by PayPal Luxembourg.
We retained Luxembourg-based lawyers. PayPal Luxembourg refused to communicate with the lawyers, regurgitating "Customer Privacy Protection".
We lodged a complaint with the CSSF, the Luxembourg monetary watchdog. PayPal finally replied via the CSSF, citing that our account was selling illegal products, ergo the proceeds were illegal, ergo PayPal deserved to keep them.
None of the products they cited were ever featured on our site. They included screenshots of other sites. When this was transmitted to the CSSF, PayPal silently released all funds owed, but continued to defend their position.
We are now pursuing damages; PayPal Luxembourg is now claiming that the CSSF has no jurisdiction over them, because the accounts are French / HK / Australia.
PayPal has an active policy of abuse and racketeering. They know the legal system. They use multiple jurisdictions in their T&Cs to maximise and legalise their theft (IE, PayPal Luxembourg cites UK law in the T&Cs to allow punitive damages for perceived breaches of their illegal contracts).
They know the legal system, and use their multi-national entities to avoid oversight from watchdogs. They know customers don't have the resources to pursue them. We've spent well over 100k to recover 50k, but someone has to stand up to these thugs.
If you're in a similar situation: Don't be intimidated. Get lawyers, and pursue them via the monetary authorities in your country. They have made theft a business model; apply pressure on the entities that can apply pressure on them, and you'll have a good chance to get your money back.
You have described a pretty elaborate system designed to dodge accountability when customers ask questions. You should consider talking to a business journalist as well. Here in Canada, the public broadcaster's website has a "Go Public" section where well-documented customer complaints are publicized. In most cases, the company pays up what it owes, but only after the story becomes public.
My default reaction to being scammed is to feel ashamed. A cashier took a $10 out my change as a kid, my dad finding out and going back and confronting the clerk was painful. With experience I've gotten more (maybe too much so!) alert to scams, confidence schemes and dark patterns. A lot of them operate at a level of plausible deniability, or even subconscious action, where the person profiting doesn't have to know what's going on.
Last winter the game EFT had a winter marketing blitz, which they paired with authentication servers being down for old accounts ... as a returning player I had to buy a new account to participate.
If you were also compensated for your legal expenses in the process, then sure "don't be intimidated" is a calculated risk.
If you didn't, then it seems like you are a loser either way and should just encourage customers not to pay with PayPal. Sharing the story with your customers and other developers does more damage to PayPal than fighting.
I struggled for 3 months to get Paypal to pay out a odd $300 which I received as a refund because I cancelled a newspaper subscription. I am not in the US and had a Paypal account linked only to my credit card.
Paypal said that due to financial regulations in my country my Paypal balance may not be used at all - no withdrawals, sending it somewhere or paying with it. I may only make a payment via my credit card.
In the end I only got my money after requesting to close my account - and since they could not keep my money, the matter was escalated higher. But not before they in all seriousness suggested that I donate my money to an official Paypal charity.
0, https://twitter.com/flipper_zero/status/1503384490026151938
And the main issue is the silence from PayPal and complete lack of communication.
Seems like Stripe doesn't have a problem with them (because they are incorporated in Delaware, not in Russia?)
I don't understand how they left $1.3m sitting in a single account however. Surely they're not paying for bulk h/w component orders through PP.
I’d never trust PayPal with a nickel let alone over a million bucks.
That said, [Transfer]Wise (which is not legally a bank) will assign you American banking details and you _can_ send SEPA payments from there.
If, after knowing that, you choose to keep your money with that business, that's to some degree on you.
You can come up with all sorts of reasons why this is bad or won't work if you want.Feel free to keep your money instead with a company who you know for a fact has no problem taking it from you then. Again, zero sympathy when the inevitable happens.
Always limit your exposure and never keeping any amount of money with Paypal that you’re not prepared to lose in the worst case scenario, because Paypal is accountable to no one.
by relatively I mean that I don't care if gov/police knows, but the person who sends/receives money doesn't know me, I just don't want people from games to know me
I've used paypal account with random name like Snarky Snark
and managed to transfer like 300usd, but I'm worried that the next time they may block me somehow
Monero and that's pretty much it
Russian banks are managing deposits in etherium, and if you want you could send money over in alt-coins, bounce it around through other alt coins some and then retrieve it elsewhere, issue is that you will lose a fair bit on the exchanges with the rates, transaction fees etc
Also, you will need atleast a visa/mastercard internationally enabled card associated to a bank to your name to do any of that. Do that, or buy it personally/insitu from someone
If PayPal told them they'd literally be breaking federal law. So a money laundering flag seems most plausible given the silence.
After that, they have to consider legal action, and it won't be cheap.
What's going on with big companies? Did they just decide to give up with their reputation?
Another notch in the "never use PayPal" belt.
During this time, you can still receive funds, and you're promised quick resolution. You provide the documentation. They drag their feet. They request more information. They drag their feet. All the while, your account has accumulated more funds that you can't access.
Then, they'll request something impossible, ie: give us proof of delivery (not shipment) of these 500 orders. Inevitably, there'll be one order that was returned / was delivered without signature / etc.
You'll try to reship the customer, but you've got a 3 day deadline. You miss the deadline, and the account gets perma-frozen for 180 days, but you still believe you'll get your funds back.
180 days later, you'll be notified that your funds aren't eligible for return, because you cost them the equivalent of what was in your account due to the time invested by their legal and risk teams - because buried in their T&C they evoke Common Law allowing for punitive damages for T&C transgressions.
It's calculated extortion to seize as much money as possible.
So is the strategy to make nightly transfers out of PayPal to a real bank of whatever you took in that day?
I don't think the whole "they are a russian company" makes much sense as an argument here. For one, it would he helpful if Paypal actually tried explaining their reasoning, instead of staying silent.
And where did I said that?
so "Everything made by Americans are bad and unreliable for foreign users"
It's expected for companies to overdo the sanction considering that under-doing could get employees a long jail time.
Plus, Paypal employees get paid the same whether or not Flipper Zero is within the sanction's scope.
Do you know how sanctions work?
What kind of sanction is being violated in your opinion?
> What kind of sanction is being violated in your opinion?
You are missing the main point.
What if you are an employee and make a wrong judgement call? The punishment is you going to jail for a long time.
It is safer to overdo the sanction. You don't get paid more either way, and there is no chance of you going to jail.
What should you do?
If you are an employee, would you risk a jail time for this?
The answer would be a huge no.