You can turn off interest-based ads, but then you just get less-targeted ads.
I don’t remember ads on my CX (outside the App Store maybe).
I still use an Apple TV because I like the interface way better. But it has been a great TV.
Are they saying that there is ads even when you switch inputs to a 3rd party device or is it just in the built-in media player?
Ad Machine: * Shows Ads *
User: * surprised Pikachu face *
Outside of that, any TV in my house is connected to an AppleTV. HDMICEC is great.
Lol
You can also use Cisco's free consumer OpenDNS service to do this and override the DNS settings within the TV without messing with your router, which is what I ended up doing. But that requires the ability to update your dynamic IP from your router, so you may need to refresh OpenDNS's settings on occasion."
Or you can put your own router, a computer you control with an open source OS of your choosing, in front of or in place of the ISP's router. Then you can, through various means, control the TV's access to DNS or other servers.
Maybe the OP is stopping some ads by using OpenDNS, but he is not stopping data collection, commercial surveillance and data sharing with third parties for commercial purposes. Under OpenDNS's extremely permissive "privacy" policy, anyone, including TV manufacturers like Samsung, can potentially get the DNS lookup data from Cisco.^1
"It's ridiculous that you can spend this kind of money on a product, cut cords, and pay extra not to have ads on certain services, and then have them forced down your throat in the TV UX."
You may pay extra to stop ads, but it will not stop the surveillance, data collection and sharing and use of the data for commercial purposes.
1. Some highlights from Cisco/OpenDNS "privacy" policy (https://web.archive.org/web/20220928020026if_/https://www.ci...)
The types of personal information that we may process depends on the business context and the purposes for which it was collected. It may include:
Contact, subscription, registration, online identifiers, social media and discussion forum or communications details;
Communications (i.e., audio, video, text) content;
Online behavior and product usage information;
Financial Information (e.g., bank account details, etc.);
Details of an individual's business and other interests and opinions (e.g., where information is held in a Customer Relationship Management database); and
information about the user of our products and services, including System Information such as device identifiers, and telemetry (such as IP or MAC address) when such data is linked or tied to a specific person's device.
If we link other data with your personal information, we will treat that linked data as personal information.
Collection & Use of Your Personal Information
We may collect data, including personal information, about you as you use our websites and Solutions and interact with us. We also acquire personal information from trusted third-party sources and engage third parties to collect personal information on our behalf.
Sharing Your Personal Information
We may share personal information in the following ways:
With business partners, service vendors, authorized third-party agents, or contractors to provide a requested website, Solution, service or transaction. Examples include processing of orders and credit card transactions, hosting websites, hosting seminar registration, assisting with sales-related efforts or post-sales support, and providing customer support.
With Cisco business partners or vendors, so that they may share information with you about their products or services. To opt-out of Cisco sharing with third parties for their marketing purposes, please click here.
In connection with, or during negotiations of, any merger, sale of company assets, consolidation or restructuring, financing, or acquisition of all or a portion of our business by or to another company.
In response to a request for information by a competent authority or third party if we believe disclosure is in accordance with, or is otherwise required by, any applicable law, regulation or legal process.
With law enforcement officials, government authorities, or other third parties as necessary to comply with legal process or meet national security requirements; protect the rights, property, or safety of Cisco, our business partners, you, or others; or as otherwise required by applicable law.
They know you have no options, so they can be as obnoxious as they want once you get the TV, and they know everyone else is as bad.
But if there was a way better OS to flash on? Sign me up.
Knowing the TV makers, they likely will have that locked down tight with signed code. But if there is a way to update firmware over the air, maybe there's a way to intercept the update and swap in a different firmware
I'm fully expecting it to be automatically broken by a software update about 1-3 months after the warranty expires and the new models are released. I plan to disable updates around 1 year in to mitigate this risk.
Think about what it says about the entire industry that this is what customers expect: multi-thousand-dollar products being purposefully remotely broken by the vendors.
* Same size/resolution range as the comparable TV
* Same price range as the comparable TV
* X display ports (combination of hdmi, usb, etc)
* Wifi (and bluetooth too?)
* Audio + ports
* Fine infra-red too for remotes
* Other absoulute hardware essentials i might have missed
Absolutely no inbuilt players or software or bloatware or adware or any of that crap! May be an app (inbuilt or for the phone) to configure presets perhaps.
Here's one with carrier board for a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4, for i.e. digital signage, art display, or whatever else while it isn't showing one its external inputs: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/tv-thats-not-necs-pi-...
tl;dr you can get something close to what you want but you are going to pay 2X or more for the unit compared to a similarly sized TV.
Currently a Steam Link (old hardware), and Raspberry Pi running Plex/Kodi are pretty much my setup. Cast things to Kodi, use yt-dlp to download YouTube stuff, or remote into my PC with the Steam Link.
It is ok but "highlighted content" are ads and I am quite sure Android TV is sending every bit of info it can harvest from anywhere to google.
To me, your phone is the only thing that should be controlling your TV or sound system. It’s nice, it’s clean, and I don’t have multiple remotes to flop between.
Who wants to deal with gimpy little Linux OS’s built into their tv? They’re getting too smart in a hyper 1980’s sort of way. They provide far more than anyone asked, my TV doesn’t need a browser. I can’t help but think TVs would be cheaper without them, but built in smart boxes are so run of the mill now that I’m sure it’s at most $50 extra.
Incase I come off as a luddite, I think smart ovens are a great idea.
The only thing i couldn't 'fix' yet are the extensive ads when using YouTube via cast.
Edit:// Samsung botching Android to something ugly with shit UX is nothing new. Really just avoid buying Samsung devices
If you're willing to pay a bit more, you can buy commercial TVs/displays.
Amazon lists them under "Digital Signage > Commercial TVs & Displays", for example.
Plain ARC is supposed to work over any HDMI cable so you should only need an HDMI with ethernet for eARC, but after years of never being able get ARC to work with my Denon receiver which is from 2013 I happened to notice that in the manual it said that for ARC to use a “Standard HDMI cable with Ethernet” or “High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet”. I switched to a "with Ethernet" cable and ARC worked.
Roku is also a fine cheaper alternative to the built in interface of new TVs though it is also ad supported so you are just replacing one bad ad supported interface for a better, ad supported interface. And while it functions and is generally quick, it isn’t the most attractive UX.
I'll be upgrading to a better, eventually 4k projector, but it seems like the ad and spam smart crap hasn't hit projectors yet....YET.
I only learned this because the UI had gotten soooo slow, like five seconds to respond to each button click on the remote control. Turning off the virus scanner mostly fixed the problem. Thanks, TV software update!
The UI is great and it's nice to have everything right there without having to work for it. And as someone without cable, I even come to enjoy some of the internet channels they offer.
My takeaway would be manufacturers do not do good user software. This is true whether it's tvs or cars or fridges.
It seems like a huge benefit these days to be the sort of person who just isn't bothered by ads, like you can enjoy products and have more options available and don't have to do a ton of work to enjoy them.
>It seems like a huge benefit these days to be the sort of person who just isn't bothered by ads, like you can enjoy products and have more options available and don't have to do a ton of work to enjoy them.
You work for Google. Of course you have no problem with ads.
It's really the other way around. I work at Google because I have no problem with ads. It's another example of opportunities available if you are okay with ads!
Imagine you are Google and you buy LG Spy TV, or Samsung Spy Panel. You put it in your conference room, where you meet regularly to discuss next Pixel phone with the Samsung's remote control AI listening to you. Eh?
What products are they buying?
even worse it auto updated and it force me to go through a TOS and privacy policy.... now why the hell do we need all this on a TV
also, it’s very ironic that I got a samsung ad on this site…
The firmware update might have stricter DRM controls; it could have a tricky new way to exfiltrate data out via your streaming box; maybe the firmware update itself contains some static ads; perhaps in the near future we'll have public wifi or free Google community wifi, and the new firmware will have the smarts to use that and bypass your wifi.
And these days, once you update the firmware, you often cannot revert back to earlier firmware.
When I mounted my TV, I embedded a single HDMI cable, a single cat5e cable, and a single optical cable in the wall. Conduit wasn't an option due to the age and construction of the wall, so changing it would require power tools and drywall mud.
I have a sound bar rather than a receiver because it makes my wife happy. The sound bar works best with ARC. Optical works too, but power and volume isn't synchronized.
I have an NVIDIA shield mounted behind the TV because the TV's software stack got too lethargic, and the TV's built-in decoder has silicon bugs that break video in Netflix, and break surround sound in everything but Netflix.
Surprisingly, everything works reliably about 95% of the time. It's unfortunate that I consider that a win. I just added a 4-1 HDMI splitter with ARC passthrough in order to get a Blu-ray player back in the mix, and it was boring!
Fair enough if you have a compatibility bug it might fix maybe it's worth a shot, but until/unless that happens it's not that compelling is it?
Xfinity WiFi has been around for at least 8 years. Amazon sidewalk has been around for over a year. Wanna bet those are or will be used by your smart TV producers to connect them to the internet via wifi?
- Open Wi-Fi networks are a thing of the past. There hasn't been any around me in a residential area for a long time now. Businesses and workplace lobbies, more likely, though.
- No one is going to just give Samsung free Internet except the hapless consumer by supplying Wi-Fi credentials.
- Samsung might make a deal with providers, but it would have to have unique credentials embedded in its OS and firmware, and I doubt Samsung has the ability to keep that totally secure.
Think about it. If you could get free, anonymous Internet with credentials in a Samsung TV, crackers would be all over that - they'd be searching every crook and nanny for exploits, desoldering NAND and sniffing busses for encryption keys, connecting with Chinese friends to get original datasheets, etc.
Even if Samsung embedded an LTE/5G SIM, eSIM, whatever, it would be hacked to bits. "Get model X of samsung TV, get free Internet with this Linux application". It's not realistic for there to be a network connection that you don't know about, pay for, and have your name attached to.
Of course the p2p network interface that shows up on the Netflix diagnostic screen is concerning, though.
Now if cellular providers start selling TVs, such as AT&T, Verizon, etc. bundling Internet with them, then it can happen.
When you finally decide to shell out for a sound bar, and after hooking it up, your TV now suddenly takes 30 seconds to flicker to life from sleep, you'll really want that firmware update.
(It's similar to where we were ~5 years ago with motherboards and NVMe boot support. The motherboard had the M.2 socket; but whether the NVMe device showed up in the boot options was up to chance. Often it'd only work in legacy mode but not UEFI mode. But, after a few-months-later motherboard firmware update, things would begin to work the way you'd expect.)
So, if your TV has any other inputs, might want to try those too.
It could also be a cable issue, although I believe the option usually shows up on cables that dont support it and only fails once you try to switch.
Appallingly, this isn't enough to stop the ads. Many TVs will proactively scan for open networks and connect to them.
If the TV stops working then, well you solved the problem anyway :)
All the Samsung products were poor experiences one way or another.
I've replaced my last Samsung Note with an (my first) iPhone (that has lasted 6-7 years since and is still going!); and replaced the monitor with a Dell one (none of my current or previous Dell & Philips monitors ever gave issues!).
Hearing how some Samsung TVs now comes with ads feels like a new low for the user experience. I'm personally avoiding Samsung products until things change.
Once 5G is cheap enough the TVs will come with built-in 5G in order to always be connected.
Does it? So long as it's not connected to the internet, and generally works, then why would you want to? Whats the risk?
If it's not a networked device, then the FW update better have enhancements that benefit me, the user, and not Samsung. Otherwise, GTFO with your crab bucket of new bugs.
I disable the firewall rule if I want to try updating the TV firmware.
I guess I can solve it but any pointers gratefully rec d
No need to fight against your device IMO.
That way I can still use its inbuilt apps to play from my NAS, but it can't talk to outside.
The solution is to buy a commercial TV used in retail environments.
Easy fix for that - disconnect the antenna wires for whatever your TV is using for wifi.
All of which are available on an AppleTV, and I assume other less-intrusive devices. TFA comes to that conclusion in the last paragraph, but just in case anyone didn't make it that far. And then, as everyone on this page is going to say, never let that TV anywhere near a network connection. Why anyone would go to the effort of dicking with a pi-hole cat-and-mouse game is beyond me. Plug in a box, remove network access to the TV, watch your shows.
...even if it duplicates all the streaming app functionality in the TV itself.
I don't know, Samsung's fuckery aside, does anyone seriously think that using the duplicate app on the Samsung is going to be anywhere nearly as pleasant a UX as the AppleTV? IOW, use the AppleTV (or Roku, or whatever) regardless just for the better experience.
The most maddening advertisement is the one that is forcibly inserted in the menu between the apps and the settings. Using the remote, you must literally click past an ad to switch inputs.
You ... must ... click ... past ... an ... ad ... to ... switch ... inputs. Every time.
Unbelievable for a TV that costs this much. I almost returned it, but as the author notes, the alternatives have worse picture quality and often aren't any better in the ad department.
I will never buy anything from Samsung ever again.
Microtransactions, ads, selling customer usage data, up-front costs, PPV, subscriptions... I'm shocked we as customers can actually afford to obtain and use any of these devices anymore.
Their UI/UX is also pretty atrocious across the board, so I can imagine what their TVs are like.
I have a big 2022 Sony Bravia smart TV and while there are some suggestions on the home page, I would not call them intrusive at all.
> RootMyTV is a user-friendly exploit for rooting/jailbreaking LG webOS smart TV. It bootstraps the installation of the webOS Homebrew Channel ... At the time of writing (RootMyTV v2 - 2022-01-05), all webOS versions between 4.x and 6.2+ we tested (TVs released between early-2018 and late-2021) are supported by the new exploit chain.
Never tried it though; my old dumb 42" LG has no intention to retire.
Like the TV will take a screenshot of what video you're watching via HDMI and upload that for content ID. Or it'll turn on the microphone to listen in on what you say.
Samsung calls that shit "Viewing Information Services". I guess because it informs their headquarters of what you are viewing.
The last decade of ownership has been hell. Slow laggy equipment, HDCP problems, working but forcibly obsoleted hardware, bugs galore and ads stuffed in your face.
I now no longer own a television and will never own one again.
I realize there are ads on the homescreen of an xbox series x, ps4 pro, ps5, etc but I would much rather deal with those than whatever shoddy operating system TV manufacturers put on their thing.
I have a thousand times more confidence that microsoft and sony will keep their OSes patched and up to date (they have a strong financial/self-interest incentive to do so, for anti piracy reasons) than the junk running on a TV.
I don't feel like browsing various commercial signage websites for TV's that don't have any advertising in and I don't feel like we should be punished for paying more for this either!
I just want a TV I can turn on - and it doesn't need to load an operating system - it doesn't need to delay displaying actual TV because the computer needs to reach out and upload telemetry, download advertisements, and take pictures of what you watch. It just needs to take an HDMI/RCA/whatever ports, and output the signal on the screen.
There's no expectation of privacy anymore in society - some company somewhere has eked out a slice of the market share, and are pounding their customers with ways to extract more wealth out of you while you sit and take it - the 2 or 3 second delays eating up your life for advertisements you'll never buy things from.
It's depressing - I just want a TV. A plain TV. I'd rather not pay more for a commercial display-tier TV that doesn't have any of this smart crap built in.
Yes in this case I didn’t pay to read the content so they need ads, but the user-hostility of ads everywhere is just insane lately.
I've started to use Reader Mode a lot more lately, and it has been surprising how much more pleasant the Web is when consuming articles this way.
Maybe we should Invent a protocol for marking up text documents and sending them over the Internet or something? Maybe call it Actual Text Markup Language?
No ads's anywhere on the linked post.
WalMart sells their stuff at like half MSRP and there isn't network connectivity with which to exfiltrate your data.
I wish every manufacturer worked like this.
It is a trade off you have to be willing to make ;)
But it must be the most fragile feeling device I have ever owned, the bulk of the screen is like 2mm thick and I basically have to get myself into a state of extreme focus, meditation, stretching and so on before I dare to move it. There's no easy way to grip it without putting some pressure on the thin part, even with two people.
I seriously wish they didn't go for the brownie points of making a screen this thin. Sometimes just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Seriously, make it like 20mm thick, robust, easy to move.
I cannot imagine that any other screen, budget or otherwise, could feel more fragile than this.
I think the average consumer would much rather have a TV that they simply connect to their wifi and then get Netflix, YT, Disney+, etc as opposed to hooking up some sort of computer or streaming box via hdmi to get the TV to work. I also think the average consumer doesn't find ads for TV shows and movies that show up on their TV intrusive. I mean, that's essentially what every streaming app does already isn't it? It just shows potential shows and movies. Why would they get upset that their TV does the same thing?
What I do think is intrusive and disgusting is the fact that Samsung will happily take screenshots of what you're watching and send telemetry. The random ads for movies that show up are the least of my concerns.
My suggestion is buy a Roku, don't give the TV an IP address, and run Netflix, Amazon Prime, Plex, Hulu, and whatever you want out of one of the biggest channel catalogs out there on the Roku. It's way nicer remote, supports RF (so no pointing at the TV), and even supports using earphones (BT or wired from the remote).
The only solution is to buy "business or gaming monitors" - no built in TV, just connect up a apple box and be done with it.
Even then you can tell Apple is moving from "here is a button to press" to "let us decide what you are interested in"
(Tangent but it's noticeable that the stuff I have bought from Apple Itunes like a kids movie is several clicks away, but the latest movie that I have not bought but will need to pay for is right there on the home screen. No. That's the wrong way round. If I reach up to my bookshelf and the bookshelf needs me to climb a ladder and reach over the books for sale to get to my own darn book, the bookshelf is not doing it's job.
Apple. Be a bookshelf. I paid for a bookshelf.
Not a bad deal imo. Thanks LG.
For many years now my answer for "What TV to get?" has been "Last year's LG OLED." The screens are gorgeous. The UX is good. The differences between yearly models have been minor. The current year is naturally expensive. The previous year is nearly as good and much cheaper. And, the model from the year before that is actually often more expensive because leftover stock is low.
It lacks a tuner and don't think it does HDR but it does have surprisingly good sound.
Also worth factoring ability to update firmare without an internet connection when making a purchase decision. Sony TVs for example typically allow updates via a thumb drive.
My dad runs Apple TV since his screen is older, and it's marginally better than my Vizio because most of the time YoutubeTV continues where it left off when turning TV back on which is nice.
I've never used AppleTV. Does it come with ads and a bunch of data collection too? Roku collects massive amounts of data and has ads. For example:
"Roughly twice per second, a Roku TV captures video “snapshots” in 4K resolution. These snapshots are scanned through a database of content and ads, which allows the exposure to be matched to what is airing. For example, if a streamer is watching an NFL football game and sees an ad for a hard seltzer, Roku’s ACR will know that the ad has appeared on the TV being watched at that time. In this way, the content on screen is automatically recognized, as the technology’s name indicates. The data then is paired with user profile data to link the account watching with the content they’re watching." (https://advertising.roku.com/resources/blog/insights-analysi...)
I'm not aware of any intrusive data collection like screenshots you mention even if you do opt in to share data.
Even with AppleTV+ it contains ads for other content on other services that you have to pay for. You might be able to buy it through AppleTV and watch it there I guess. I don't know I've never tried.
Using the Apple TV app (which aggregates listings from most services, Netflix being the notable exception) will list shows on services you might not already pay for. But, you don’t have to use the Apple TV app - you can just go straight to the apps you know you want.
The apps are actually mostly identical from experience.
I actually use a PS4 at the moment, and it occasionally forces me to update before I can use the TV app, so even more hassle.
What's bizarre is that the YouTube app on a Google Android TV is markedly worse than YouTube on the Apple TV. For example, switching Google accounts doesn't work properly and takes more clicks even when it works!
Similarly, subtitles in several apps in Google Android TV have eye-searing maximum HDR white brightness, and this cannot be altered. The NetFlix app for example has this issue. On Apple TV the NetFlix app subtitles use a normal level of brightness.
The Google TV UI is 1080p upscaled to 4K so it is blurry. It's also so dark that it is difficult to see during the daytime. This cannot be adjusted. The Apple TV interface in comparison is gorgeous.
My impression is that Google doesn't have a single employee in their entire organisation that cares about product quality or consumer needs in any sense. They just want to control televisions to shove their ads down your throat. They have no business interest in anything else. The second they achieved control and could start selling ads, the mission was accomplished. The rest doesn't matter.
Expecting anything else at this point is a lot like a battered wife saying "deep down he loves me".
My Apple TV can turn my TV on and off though, so I rarely need to use the TV remote
Even if you have, say, an PS5 or Xbox Series X plugged to same TV, the ATV remote screen button causes TV to take over from console and turning on a console controller causes it to take over from ATV.
Assuming you turned on all the CEC stuff anyway.
I've gone through 4 streaming devices, and I think that even if I get a new TV, I'm likely to continue with streaming devices, unless that TV runs stock Android TV. Even then, it'll reach a point where the firmware is no longer updated.
I in general think the Apple UX experience is pretty awful across all their products with Apple TV being the worse of all. I have used the Samsung interface and it is bad but I still dislike the Apple TV more.
Most streaming boxes have the same basic interface... my usual issue is when one is laggy (e.g. TV built-in, Roku, Chromecast, etc). The Apple TV is buttery smooth, fast to scrub through videos, and never feels limited by its CPU.
I too am in the wrong group, like you. I was finally talked into becoming an owner of an Apple device for the first time in my life about a year ago (an iPhone), and I have hated its interface with increasing passion every day since. I hate getting rid of electronics before the natural end of their lives, because I'm cheap and I'm environmental and I'm obstinate, but I may actually do it in this case.
But anyway it is all right, everything is all right, the struggle is nearly finished.
That feeling of absolute helplessness when trying to deal with any issue on your Apple device, you must embrace. It is by design. Your helpless feeling will some day be transformed into a warm feeling of being nannied, which will eventually feel maternal, and that will eventually become love.
We will win the victory over ourselves, and we will love Big Brother Apple.
Fun way to pass the time for some folks, I assume.
I would wager the story is the same for the absolute most expensive TV's as well.
What I haven't seen here in this thread yet is the usual suggestion of looking into "Digital Signage" displays, which in addition to being "dumb", some of them come with a place to chunk in an RPI board!
Even more because the cheaper products have less lucrative users, and are way less likely to include ads than the most expensive ones.
They are absolutely not selling $3k TVs at a loss.
When Amazon sold the "ad-supported" Kindle, with a corresponding full-price unit, it made a pretty direct statement of the lifetime value they expected out of advertising.
I suspect both consumers and investors would be fascinated to know how much value the manufacturer expects to get out of these post-sale bleeds. Would their investors be comfortable with a firm that's willing to compromise their brand equity on halo-tier products to extract an expected $35 lifetime ad revenue on a $3000 set?
I question the "much" - I'm sure the price difference isn't as big as those who are spying on us would have us believe (and coincidentally they are also keeping their costs secret).
But more importantly, how can you attribute this to "preference", when the hypothetical price difference is front and center, while the ads and spying are hidden, and there is not an equivalent TV without the ads and spying being sold next to the ad-infested one at an unsubsidized price?
I had to cover it up with a sticky note on my nice tv until I finally gave up.
Anti consumer patterns.
The problem is that it’s becoming unavoidable. Right now the only oven with a good Consumer Reports rating requires a Wi-Fi connection, so it’s either get that model or another one with a significantly worse rating.
I have to think there's an acceptable oven on the market that doesn't have a Wi-Fi requirement. I bought a GE Adora oven a few years ago and it has been exactly as perfectly uncomplicated an oven as I've ever wanted; it was even easy to replace the handle when I broke it off in a moment of poor judgement. It looks like those are still available, and don't require any Wi-Fi access.
I guarantee you Wolf, Sub-Zero, and Viking do not require Wi-Fi connections.
If I bought an oven and it required an internet connection I'd be getting my money back.
Is this some weird American only thing? I keep hearing on HN how everything requires wifi now, but in Australia, I couldn't find any major oven that had wifi at all, and only 14 out of 504 fridges on a popular appliances site (Appliances Online) had wifi at all.
I'd be interested to know what the options look like in other countries.
I bought their brand-new-tech Quantum Dot OLED. I LOVE the screen, it's outperformed my every expectation... EXCEPT... switching inputs is a nightmare! How is that possible?!?! I still have no idea how to get to an input select screen. I use my Harmony remote to direct-select an input (impossible with the stock remote) or wait for the TV to say, "no signal, choose another input"
I'm completely flabbergasted at how ridiculous it is to do.
As opposed to what?
On my LG there's a button for input switching that does only that. It's part of the OS but I don't see how it could be more convenient.
[1]: https://webostv.developer.lge.com
[2]: https://webostv.developer.lge.com/develop/getting-started/de...
[3]: https://webostv.developer.lge.com/distribute/app-approval-pr...
How difficult has nerfing the ads been on a WebOS TV? That is the only thing keeping me away from an LG -- I want a TV which I don't have to fight.
Now I use a chromecast plugged into it for streaming. before that I used a ps4.
I remember reading memes about how you have to "pledge" to the Mountain Dew or else you can't turn your console on... and that was comically exaggerated but we're certainly getting close...
It's offline, plugged to a real computer that has internet access and I skip the projector home page as quickly as I can to get to the laptop mirrored displays.
It just makes things so much more frustrating when you're providing support for the less technically inclined.
...oh, and more ads (not mentioned in the changelog).
...and feature removals (not mentioned in the changelog).
...oh, and you can't downgrade (not mentioned in the changelog).
Firmware updates are fine, but it should definitely be illegal to not allow a device to be returned by a consumer to the precise functionality it had at the time of purchase.
I can't believe people have been brainwashed to accept this as normal.
I also considered maybe trying to import a TV from the EU - do they have stronger privacy laws that would prevent this? Panasonic makes some VERY nice OLED TV's out of the country
Memories of Memories of Laptop.
It's a longstanding thing with Google that its iOS apps are better than its Android apps. Google Voice for iOS, for example, got certain functionality years before Android did.
The AppleTV app (which you don't need to use) itself shows what shows you're watching and if you scroll down or across the categories at the top shows you what shows are on all channels it knows about. That's significantly less problematic than showing ads for arbitrary products. It does know what you've watched because it does stuff like launching the apps for you, and I wouldn't be surprised if they use that data internally. I've never seen an outright ad on my AppleTV other than when watching videos on an app that has ads (YouTube, for example).
I have found the ability to see all shows on all channels at once very useful for deciding if I want another service or not. I also sometimes see a show is available on service X, decide I don't want that service, and check to see if I can buy or rent just that one show (or movie) on iTunes. The answer is yes as often as not. Very handy!
Mileage may vary. My tv is older but does seem to have good CEC support and the newest Apple TV supports CEC.
Some devices do not support CEC and it seems others only partially support CEC so when that happens one thing, like the power on and off command, doesn’t work and you end up having to use a second remote anyway, which defeats the whole point.
Sure, but they get worse reviews, and I can get 8 years of insurance on the appliance to cover if it gets hacked for less than the cost difference.
There is an option to run as a dumb panel, but I haven't tried using it that way.
Setting the TV up normally requires accepting a disconcerting number of EULAs. You can choose to decline some individual terms at the cost of disabling features like voice recognition, but others are required.
The TV's home screen is rife with advertisements, mainly in the form of pre-loaded apps and mandatory content sections like "Top Picks for You" or "Sports Alert." The Verge has screenshots at https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/11/22223767/lg-webos-6-tv-so.... These cannot all be hidden or moved below the fold.
The home screen ads really bothered me when I first unboxed the TV. It was new, and I wanted to explore everything it could do. Once the novelty wore off and I stopped giving a damn about the smart features, it stopped being a problem. For example: you never have to see the home screen. If you're not hooked up to cable or an antenna, the TV boots into a screensaver (a Rothko-esque slideshow by default) from which you can summon an app switcher and jump directly to Netflix / YouTube / etc. This skips the home screen altogether, so you never see those ads. System menus are free from ads to the best of my recollection.
I remain vaguely concerned about background data collection and telemetry.
General -> AI Service -> AI Recommendation: turn off "Who.Where.What?" and "Content Recommendations" and "Network-Based Personalization Recommendations"
General -> Home Settings: turn off "Home Promotion"
General -> Additional Settings: turn off "Live Plus" and turn on "Do Not Sell My Personal InformationA
General -> Additional Settings -> Advertisement: turn on "Limit AD Tracking"
There's a "recommended" strip on the home page that shows various movies/tv shows from streaming services, and that's pretty much it as far as ads go.
On the wall i painted with Silver Screen Behr paint, the pixels are about 1-2mm.
But the experience of using the integrated apps is just better. It all just works out of the box, there are basically no ads (some "recommended content", but it's pretty unobtrusive) and I don't need to use my phone or worry about why youtube or netflix have randomly decided not to see the chromecast.
Surely most people (especially for anyone who is dropping decent money on an OLED) are running external speakers?
I decided to stop using it and started looking for better soundbars. Eventually I will get a 5.1 or 7.1 system but for the moment the TV speakers are more than acceptable for everything I do - movies, TV, games -- I don't use the TV for music. For now though, the speakers are sufficient. They don't sound too bad. To be fair, there's not much reason they should since there's enough space where they're mounted for decent sized cans.
But because of laziness I suppose, but also because I don’t want a sub-woofer type sound. Also don’t want a second remote.
I am sure those things can avoided, so I am open to advice on what to get.
I'd probably just go for some nice over-the-ear headphones though, unless you like tinkering with TV stuff
https://www.newegg.com/samsung-qb43b-43/p/N82E16824027232?It...
Sceptre 32" Class 720P HD LED TV X322BV-SR
Didn’t spent much time looking at Walmart however.
32"/720 won't cut it - that's what I already have, and have had for like a decade...
This one apparently doesn’t have smarts (there is a similar that does) but damn those things are way too cheap.
Actually, my employer tried to get a Sceptre as a reasonable accommodation for someone with low vision (needed everything to be huge). That panel was so unusable not even the legally blind want to look at it.
In fact that's the reason these ads are there - a lot of people can't be convinced to use an external device to escape them. If everyone used Apple TVs/etc, there would be no built-in ads because it's just not worth the trouble.
https://www.amazon.com/Android-Streaming-Control-Assistant-1...
And Chromecast is arounf $50. That's really not a high price for being able to control your own TV.
NextDNS has been working great to block Roku BS for me
I’m not about to buy a Samsung set to find out what it actually does in practice. The fridge has deep learning object classifiers and internal cameras; I assume that is a big part of its ad targeting capability.
Note that the fridge has demand response / energy use time shifting features that don’t work unless it is connected to the internet.
...seriously?
...we collectively did this to ourselves. We live in the science fiction dystopian future we deserve.
I don't understand. What extra info does it need from the internet to keep the food at the right temperature, other than just the current temperature inside the fridge?
if (Fridge is too hot) then { cool }.
That's it. You don't need internet for that.
I thought they were to keep things cold? That requires internet?
In the USA and perhaps other countries the cable provider is required to let you use your own DOCSIS modem. The list of modems that work with their system has to be on their web site.
They don't want to do this because they are all shitheads and also because they want to charge you "rent". But TBF I imagine it's also because it's easier to debug customer support calls when they manage the whole connection (e.g. GF's kids complain that "WiFi is down" when they mean the cable connection is down).
Sadly, enforcement of this directive is up to each country's own regulator, and as the map in the above link shows, only a few countries have actually enshrined this in their national laws.
My current ISP has the cable modem completely locked down. No control over DHCP, no punching service ports through the NAT for home servers. Also they've got me double NATed.
I can use my phone to fill in passwords and as a second remote on my Roku TV without needing to be locked in to the eco system of a single vendor. Haven't used the current remote but the previous one was an atrocity.
What are you trying to discover?
The only hidden gestures left on ATV4K are tap-tap home to show carousel of recent apps, and swipe up to force quit (same as iPhone gestures on iPhones or iPods w/ a home button). Everything else in ATV UI is giant buttons on screen, real buttons on remote.
> use my phone to fill in passwords
Also, 1Password (among others including keychain) works great on ATV, and happily fills in passwords for, e.g., HBO+, from your laptop logins. Any input field, you can input from another device and 1Password into those on the device which inputs it on ATV.
>I can use my phone to fill in passwords and as a second remote on my Roku TV
Mind explaining how?
No one is "locked in". I can sell my phone and my Apple TV will still be better than all of its competitors.
And many of them don't know the features they could be using and enjoying but aren't because they aren't discoverable.
>I can use my phone to fill in passwords and as a second remote on my Roku TV
>Mind explaining how?
The Roku app allows you to fill passwords via your phone and use the phone as a remote for your Roku. I can also use Roku's private listening feature to redirect its audio to my phone allowing me to listen using the headphones connected to my phone. Roku also has a remote available with a wired headphone jack which automatically redirects the audio to it when headphones are connected to the jack.
I much prefer my Roku TVs and don't have any issue with lag which bothers me.
Yesterday's news. ATV4K remote couple years now has all the buttons and no track pad (well, you can swipe in middle of the round OK button, but you wouldn't).
I like the headphone jack on Roku and it works with Airplay. I prefer the Apple TV though for overall polish and integration.
Input switching on my TV doesn't even cross the Doherty threshold, or at least not in any way that I notice. And believe me, I get as irritated as anyone with laggy TV menus - which is one reason I refuse to buy Samsung at this point.
I want ARC/CEC to work as I want a single remote. You loose that when using optical.
My setup currently has an audio drop out every few minutes. It seems to happen over both ARC and optical, though, so it's presumably just the Nvidia Shield being buggy. The UI bugs out too lately. I've had various forms of audio drop outs on that TV since at least 2020. It could be the TV corrupting the passthrough I guess. I'm not going to buy a whole new TV just to test that hypothesis.
Not that I can really recommend the Samsung-- its UI is surprisingly, brutally slow.
It's all the other stuff that's supposed to seamlessly integrate your components. Audio Return Channel so sound makes it to the speakers regardless of where a source is plugged in, Consumer Electronics Control so you can use one Bluetooth remote for everything, automatic power synchronization, etc.
Even 4k is a little weird, with different HDMI versions supporting different frame rates. I have a Yamaha receiver from 2014 or so that doesn't support 4k, but claims to "support" it; all you have to do is turn off the receiver and it will pass the signal through!
I've given up on ARC completely in my setup. The Nvidia Shield remote can control sound bar volume via IR. I just successfully watched a full movie without any drop outs. Also, I may be imagining it, but the Shield feels more responsive. It seems like it must be the TV's fault. Don't buy a Sony I guess.
But not all. So, clearly it doesn't have to be below the OS level. I agree it needs to be quick, responsive and reliable, but that doesn't preclude it from being implemented in the OS.
Cheers!
I'm not so sure. I've been using a projector as a TV for something like four years straight: no TV at home, only a projector. As a bonus the living room becomes a home cinema. I didn't see much downsides. Zero issue. No ads. Cheaper than a TV for a much wider diagonal and a more "cinema'ish" picture too (I hate it when movies look like cheap sitcoms on modern TVs).
And as many of these are made to show slides and whatnots in corporate settings, ads are a big no-no.
I think more people should seriously consider that option.
EDIT: well I remember one issue... I decided to fix it and it took longer than the time it'd have take to hook a TV. But I did it exactly once, used some fishtape to pull HDMI cables in the system ceiling and family was good to go for years.
This really is the trope about LCD TVs that will not die. I blame the manufacturers.
Yes, it looks terrible. It’s called motion smoothing (or something like it) and it’s often switched on - for reasons I cannot possibly fathom - when TVs are in demo mode and/or in the showroom.
And it is absolutely trivial to disable. Most any modern TV is either fully capable of playing 24p / 30p and 60p at native frame rate, or playing 60p at native, 30p at half-rate and 24p at 3:2 pulldown, in each case without any interpolated frames muddying the native presentation. It looks perfectly great (while 3:2 pulldown is perceived as juddery by some, that’s an issue any projector incapable of either 120hz or native 24p would also share).
There are loads of legitimate reasons to prefer projectors over flat panels (and vice versa); motion smoothing is not one of them.
Potential problems, all fixable:
Can't see it during the day or when using the lights.
Had to run power and data to the ceiling.
Lower resolution for the price.
Can't use the wall for anything else or need to install a screen; paint choice a potential issue (bad color, too glossy). (Also need a wall without windows that is large enough.)
That said, the pros vastly outweigh the cons for me and projectors have gotten cheaper and better in the near decade since I installed mine.
The "cheap sitcom" look is objectively better. With the right filters you can reproduce the cinema look; but nobody who isn't already used to it would want to to that, unless you are going for a specific "old school" style.
That has nothing to do with "TVs" in general and more the software smoothing settings that are on by default. Properly configured (takes literally minutes or less one time) using a website like rtings.com for the optimal settings, a TV will look better than a similar quality projector every time, and in greater lighting situations. There's a reason why projectors aren't popular and it's not because people forget about them. Movies on my OLED TV look incredible, better than a cinema frankly.
https://www.trustedreviews.com/explainer/what-is-filmmaker-m...
Plus there's now ultra-short-throw projectors that sit in the front of the room, rather than above / behind you.
Ultra-short-throw also has the advantage that you can use from-below lenticular screens. This means that ambient room light affects them a lot less, since they refelect light mostly coming from only where the projector is.
Sadly, "smart TV" has infected projectors as well. But maybe not as bad as normal TVs. Most projectors still have dumb inputs that work fine.
I got one of these from work, it's not a great solution. First, they're more expensive than regular TVs. Bigger issue though is that there's no remote so changing the volume can be a pain in the ass.
You would add something like a soundbar and an apple TV, with a magic remote to control it all.
How ironic. ;)
They're not in the necromancy business.
Yet.
Luke … I … am your father.
And Jar-Jar? Like the Coyote. Not even the Roadrunner.
Previously I did have a receiver, and no Nvidia Shield device. The TV has Android TV built in to it, so I still relied on ARC most of the time. The TV's built in functionality got too buggy (borked video, audio dropouts during loud scenes) and slow to use day to day, so I added the Shield. My receiver didn't support 4k, though, so I plugged straight into the TV and used ARC still. I since replaced the receiver and all the mid-size speakers with a 5.1 wireless soundbar to free up shelf space in that room. Since I know you're curious, the receiver got paired with a 1080p plasma TV in a guest house where it can retire with dignity, and the speakers got moved to a bedroom, connected to a pre-HDMI receiver and a cheap Bluetooth dongle.
I think it's implied that Samsung would pay Amazon for Sidewalk access.
> Samsung might make a deal with providers, but it would have to have unique credentials embedded in its OS and firmware, and I doubt Samsung has the ability to keep that totally secure.
I don't think this is as hard a problem as you're making it sound. Each TV ships with a serial number, let's suppose; it tries to handshake with the Sidewalk network. Sidewalk phones home to Amazon, Amazon talks to Samsung, Samsung says "yes, we sold that S/N recently and it has never connected before, here's its public key".
[edit - to be clear, I'm not saying that this is what Samsung is doing, I'm just describing a plausible way how this might get done]
I've been to two medical facilities and a large regional hospital in the last week where there were open wifi networks with no portals. My apartment building operates an open wifi network for guests so we don't have to bother giving out passwords to visitors. An airport I visited last month has wide open wifi. A see ads on transit buses all the time stating that the bus has wifi. I suspect that is wide open because the transit agency didn't want to deal with tech support.
Open wifi is far from a thing of the past.
Consumer routers are now shipped pre-configured with a password on the network so random joe who bought his router at best buy or got it from his ISP doesn't accidentally provide free wifi to his 20 closest neighbors.
Meanwhile out of the box every single xfinity provided modem/router combo provides by default an open network with no password that allows any other xfinity subscriber to access the internet via your device. They have 18 million such hotspots throughout the US. Give the expected usage of a few MB per year this would seem to be an easy ask and easily sold the end user as a feature not a cost.
Likewise nearly every major business that serves customers food refreshments or produces to buy on site provides wifi that requires only that you push a simple response to open it up. This can be and in fact is already automated on your phone for example.
Instead of referring to open wifi I would redirect the discussion to negotiable connections and they are everywhere.
And by "residential areas," I assume you mean "the very specific residential area where I live in my neighborhood, in my city, in my county, in my state, in my nation" since there is simply no way for you to have made a detailed assessment of the availability of open wifi for the entirety of the rest of the planet, or even for the small subset of its people who are on HN.
But thanks for informing me, and the 300 other people who reside in my building that we don't live in a residential area.
Generalizations generally fail.
Kindles and cars have had those for years and people haven't torn those apart to come up with free internet.
You could basically use 10MB per 10 customers per year and the only question is do you make more ensuring everyone gets ads to justify the peanuts paid to people like comcast or at worst the cost of a chip that has a cellular modem vs just wifi.
The SSID name starts with “Xfinity”.
The comment suggests that the behavior of auto-connecting to wifi is infeasible for technical reasons. My comment and the one below it show that this is technically feasible.
All of the popular embedded platforms have had scores of vulnerabilites - Qualcomm, Android, WebOS, etc. - patched over time, new ones found etc.
Heck, it even took Microsoft more than one try to start to get it right. An interesting story is Microsoft attempting to protect its first game platform--the original Xbox from the early 2000's. There were numerous security protections and all were bypassed - from encrypted boot code to a device-unique hard drive key stored in EEPROM.
Microsoft got better and smarter with the 360--this time with unique keys and eFuses in the CPU but it was still eventually bypassed--not after the effective lifetime of the platform though.
If you really wanted it to be secure, you could use a TPM instead of a private key in memory, but that's overkill IMO. Who wants to take their TV apart in exchange for free crappy internet?
