OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022(2012.osmz.ru) |
OpenStreepMap 2012 vs. 2022(2012.osmz.ru) |
When we map (e.g. when we click on the "Edit" button), we use satellite images from providers like Bing, Maxar, ESRI, who have authorised their imagery to be used as base layer. Many countries also authorize their national orthophotography to be used as base layer.
https://data.maptiler.com/downloads/dataset/satellite-2021/#...
That's like 20 m per pixel at its highest zoom, completely useless for most things.
For reference, I've used ortho4xp to get some satellite imagery based x-plane scenery. I have several hundreds of GB of scenery like that for a few relatively small areas, like my home country the Netherlands, the area around Berlin, and a few more places. That scenery comes in at multiple GB (4-6GB) for just a single rectangle on the map (1 degree latitude by 1 longitude degree, depending on the zoom level. You typically use it at zoom level 17 but you can configure it to go for zoom level 19 near airports, which helps when coming in to land. This stuff is huge. At zoom level 19, you can see quite a bit of detail. It looks great from a few hundred feet up in the simulator.
What map tiler offers us looks like it is similar quality to that. I assume they are licensing some satellite data for this. Zoom level 19 resolution for the entire world is likely to be in the peta byte range. 500GB is probably zoom level 15 or 16ish. Still usable but not great if you want to zoom in and see details.
Edit. Another point is that zl 19 and better does not come from satellites but from air planes and isn't available everywhere (only in populated areas typically).
(You can have a look into vector tiles like from MapTiler or their open source project openmaptiles.org)
I just found this example (has nothing to do with openmaptiles as far I can see): https://js.protomaps.com/examples/multi_language.html
But you are right as this approach does not scale well in regard to using it for all languages out there. So a vector tile stack is a better approach for just switching languages.
However, some image sources are available under free licenses, or in Bing's case, a special license for drawing roads in OSM. Many of those can be found if you go into the edit mode, because the default web editor (iD) has those in the background layers menu.
OpenStreetMap is a database, not a website.
Its purpose is to reference stuff that you can see in the street, not to provide a sleek map website.
OpenStreetMap provides map data. They are not a provider of satellite data. You would have to go look elsewhere, and pay someone else.
Now, the openstreetmap.org website still does a decent job at showing a map, though its geocoder is lacking. The website also lacks several features, some are provided by overpass (https://overpass-turbo.eu) for instance, https://brouter.de, etc. OpenStreetMap data is integrated with satellite data and much more on a lot of websites.
For instance, https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/carte has aerial photography imagery for France, plus a few map overlays, including OSM. French national geography institute (IGN) releases free aerial photography, there are other sources for other countries. If you go to "edit" mode on the openstreetmap.org website, you'll see aerial/satellite imagery too, licensed for free from bing and others. AFAIK, that license is only for editors, thus they can't have it on the main website (and that wouldn't be a showcase of OSM data anyway).
I agree it's a bit of a shame that the openstreetmap.org doesn't do a better job of showcasing the wealth of data, and it could be more user friendly. There are a lot of other websites that provide the same data, represented differently. https://osmand.net/map for instance. https://www.qwant.com/maps has vector maps and is quite good too!
I think I was pretty clear about what I was interested in, namely satellite data on the same level of detail as what is available from Google Maps. My question wasn't really about what OpenStreetMap is or isn't is, but it's a nice bonus I guess! That French website is a good example of the type of imagery I was looking for.
Google Maps app is great, lets you gain points by adding information & photos & reviews etc. They even send you a free bespoke pair of socks or a badge if you're active enough. So fun to add photos and then see how many views they get (I posted one of a chippy in Scotland (for Americans that's Fish & Chip 'Thick French Fries' shop) which got over 1.4 million views - mental). The location history feature suggests things to contribute which helps too.
Would be good to have something similar to make contributing fun.
Take a look at StreetComplete [1]. It is gamification of updates to OSM.
[1] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.westnordost.streetcomplet...
Was a really rude intro to the community and reminded me a lot of SO or Wikipedia with its gatekeeping.
I've never submitted a single thing since then. If that's how you treat newcomers then I want nothing to do with you.
One thing I wish it had was the ability to add an entirely new building. I'm currently living in a town that is experiencing massive growth and I'll often see a structure that's still a vacant lot on osm, and I don't think you can add it with StreetComplete.
For more task-based editing with gamification elements check out StreetComplete, an Android app.
Also, the markers disappear entirely past a certain zoom level. When that happens, zooming out one notch does not cause them to reappear, either - I had to do like 4 levels before they'd show up. The worst part is that it also happens when you click on a marker and the map auto-zooms on it.
EDIT: just realized that for that last problem, what happens is that a single combined marker (the one that shows a number) is broken up into individual markers. The problem there is that those individual markers often end up outside of the viewport, and so it looks like the combined markers just disappeared.
On the one hand it's free work benefiting the corporation... but on the other hand it's genuinely helping sometimes thousands of other people. I benefit massively from reading Amazon reviews, and it feels good to give back. But it is also a contribution that further entrenches Amazon (or Google Maps), it's not like Wikipedia where contributions can be used by anyone.
What do we do when we can help other users, but doing so also supports corporations for free? Although then again, I've never paid a dime for Google Maps and use it daily, it's literally a major part of my life -- so does getting the product for free also play a role?
On the topic: I think it would be a good idea for OSM if done in a good and non-technical user-friendly way.
I found the "Emergency" door of a local hospital hard to find IRL, so I added a photo of it from the driveway POV. Another sort of real person you can help are the web-clueless owners of local small businesses.
I also enjoy adding a food shot or a representative photo of places I have enjoyed as a small reward and enticement for others to do likewise.
But personally, I have a ton of fun just mapping for the sake of it. Seeing my contributions rendered is a satisfaction.
Doing it because you get a pair of socks or some smiley clippy character telling you something cute is very different.
Do they protect against self promotion somehow? seems like it would be an easy way to market something to a huge audience. I mean something like giving a completely legit review then dropping a link to your website or something.
The database contains an incredible level of detail which can be used in completely different contexts and I'd say what's rendered is roughly only 1/10th of the data
There is a script (disclaimer, that I wrote) to set up a couple of docker images so you can create / host something like this yourself: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/399939. It requires downloading of a "full history" OSM data file for the region of interest.
They were terrible years ago on GM, so this is part of the evolution. But I can see how OSM will end up better than GM, like Wikipedia over Encyclopedia Brittanica, but it needs a bit more to get there.
Btw: the online process to make changes on OSM is wonderful and encouraging.
Everyone who can help OSM should. There's no reason OSM can't be a wikipedia-quality product, to the point where close source, advertising-beholden alternatives can't meaningfully compete. Add businesses in your town today! Add business hours if you can! Fix any errors you see. And try to switch to OSM for everything you can. Every little bit helps.
This is incredible work and I'm sorry that I held such a negative opinion of it for so long!
I was wondering if someone(s) consume data feeds from local govts. Stuff like permitting, licensing, change-of-address.
I ask because it seems that I'll idly spot a business, while driving around, that I'm sure didn't turn up in a search. (I mostly use Apple Maps.)
Then I thought "surely adding new listings could be automated".
My next thought was "well, just because it's in the database doesn't mean Apple, Google, Yelp will show it".
But the 2022 version suffers from a number of issues that Google and Apple are both suffering from recently: a lack of focus on who this map is for. Is this map ornamental? Or is it for driving? Walking? Finding tourist locations? What is it for?
One of the obvious changes in OSM between 2012 and 2022 is the addition of building footprints at the cost of removing a lot of street names. At this scale, do footprints really help? Am I planning a walk and need to know the street name where I will turn? When you are close to a destination, yes the footprints help one identify the correct building. But not here.
Here's a Google Maps example: if you put Canada's Yukon Territory into frame, does it show you the major roads? No. Does it show you any roads? No. Even if you select "traffic" it doesn't get the hint that you care about driving. It just wants to show you a map of geography.
And now an Apple Maps example: put California into frame. Freeways and two-lane roads are shown as thin lines that are nearly invisible. Good luck planning a route with this map! Want to go from Point A to B? It can do it! But want to consider side trips or general routing yourself? Nope.
There's still no adequate substitute for a AAA map for driving. I suspect hikers, bikers, and walkers are also poorly served by these non-specialized maps too.
It only works in my town in the UK, so don't try scrolling the map too much.
The detail was really good even back in 2012.
For me it isn't down, just taking a very long time (multiple minutes) to load the 2012 data.
I actually found StreetComplete a few days ago and have started fixing issues, at least for my neighborhood.
It showed/shows a side-by-side view of Open Street Map 2012 vs. 2022.
See https://shtosm.ru/all/verni-mne-moy-2012/ (or translated: https://shtosm-ru.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x... )
OSM editing is usually done over satelite imagery these days, so I would imagine the old one must've been very far off in some areas.
Linux, OpenStreetMap, Wikipedia, Audio and Video codecs etc.
The world needs more examples of how building a digital commons is a good long term strategy because it's far too easy to take the short term view each time this comes up.
I'm guessing you're talking about private, proprietary imagery?
It's clear that they are added in blocks - edges to forest-cover data are at edges of very large (100km?) tiles.
I wonder, though, where that information comes from. Public sources GIS, and analysis of public satellite imagery, are two possibilities that come to mind.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States/Public_lan...
Believe things if you believe them to be true.
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/415779/193375980-7...
Edit: I found Geofabrik but their Google api key is invalid I guess.
https://musical-osm.netlify.app
I'm always surprised by how active it is whenever I visit it. OSM is such an amazing project.
Avery Fisher Hall
David Geffen HallIs this a prank or broken? What year did OSM come out?
That's the whole point! Think of OpenStreetMap as a global spatial database of raw map data. An infinite variety of specialised maps can be generated from this data. Maps for driving, for hiking, for public transport, for cycling, and much more: it all depends on what renderer is used.
It's important to remember that OpenStreetMap is primarily a database and the rendered tiles you see on this page are secondary. Data consumers can decide individually whether they want to display a map for cyclists, pedestrians etc. For example, on the official homepage you will also find tiles rendered for cyclists. The important thing is that the data is there and can be used freely by anyone.
It could also be a niche thing, like if you make an app that shows the nearest defibrillator or other emergency facilities that people might need in a pinch. Any area gaining good coverage of this type of data would immediately have an app to turn to. With adoption also comes the influx of new contributors.
It of course lacks many features of OsmAnd, but you can't have both. UI issues of OsmAnd come from its features.
Also important tools in OSM land are osmium[2] and imposm[3] but the latter I think is Go not C++.
[1] https://osm2pgsql.org/ [2] https://osmcode.org/osmium-tool/ [3] https://imposm.org/
Both map renderers Tangram-ES and Maplibre-GL - https://github.com/tangrams/tangram-es and - https://github.com/maplibre/maplibre-gl-native are also written in C/C++.
Finally, most routing software, such as OSRM or Valhalla are written in C/C++.
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.seznam.mapy...
I have discovered lots of places in my local area thanks to StreetComplete!
> making it MUCH more pleasant to do GIS
Totally. Back then, everything was all but bespoke. Almost zero interop. It was a huge hassle. Now GIS can be just a feature set on top of a proper database. Something like PostGIS was inconceivable to me back then.
Adding together OSM’s rules are stacked against imports, the vocal anti import contingent and specialized software knowledge needed means that few imports happen.
OSM is mostly volunteers, and if no one has happened by on your street in the last 6 years, then no one has noticed to update the map.
> I actually found StreetComplete a few days ago and have started fixing issues, at least for my neighborhood.
This is the expected outcome, locals fixing local issues. Given a sufficient amount of that, and you have a better map than googles offering. Of course, as you discovered, if no one is around to make the fixes, the data also goes stale.
And OSM is the only map that shows the new roundabouts near my house. I just put them in yesterday after riding my bicycle around them several times to get a track.
We are OSM! If it has shortcomings, we've no one to blame but ourselves.
It'a however a little bit more technical and not all gamified and glossy.
For example if you wanted to put in your new directory whether company A has a car park at their premesis or has disabled access etc, you would need to pay somebody to either go there and perform a survey or call them up and ask them. Googles monopoly enables them to just ask the question to everybody that has ever been there and get the data returned back into the system automatically and free.
I see this as anticompetitive and so I choose not to participate.
It's harder for map corrections though, as the user-presented data mixes commercial and user-supplied data. Maybe legislation should require regular data dumps of all user-supplied content much like Wikipedia makes available in XML form? Then no scraping is even required.
Contributing to Stackoverflow is my one exception.
There must be folk who dedicate their time to searching the OSM database for unresolved notes, because whenever I leave a note on StreetComplete mentioning an inaccuracy (e.g: a path where there isn't actually one, a driveway marked incorrectly as a road, etc.) I get an email alert a few days later notifying me that the note has been resolved - often by someone who lives in an entirely different country (and who can use the information I provide in the note plus the satellite imagery to resolve the note).
So thanks for leaving notes allowing remote fixing!
If you want to add an entirely new building on the go, there is Vespucci:
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.blau.android/
But, honestly, adding a building on a phone sized screen, while quite possible, is much more easily done with either of the two desktop editors:
JOSM, Java based: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/
iD, Web based, this is the editor available from the "Edit" button from the OSM website: https://www.openstreetmap.org
For example one company caused noticeable damage as UK was mapped by people from Belarus who were unaware about many local intricacies.
> The user's answer is automatically processed and uploaded directly into the OSM database.
https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/
Of course uploading a few months of changes all at once is going to cause issues, naturally some will conflict with other changes that have been made in the meantime.
I hope you reconsider and try again. Many of us are actually here to help.
It happens automatically in default configuration.
You can enable manual upload in settings if you want, but then, well, you need to upload it manually.
I am contributor to StreetComplete - so maybe I will add feature to start reminding about upload if edits are old.
in my experience, you don't have to manually submit in streetcomplete, and it does happen automatically.
> a few months worth of my travels
Was this travels in your local neighbourhood, going home daily, or one trip to another country or in a very rural area? I'm asking if you had constant data connectivity, intermittent, once daily, or none during that time?
It sucks to have a bad first experience from a Gatekeeping community. Of course, as newbs, we try to move slowly with small changes first to test the waters. That worked for me, sorry that it did not work for you. I also take the point that was raised about not editing based off months-old data.
OSM is like Wikipedia for maps. Complete with all of Wikipedia's baggage and wannabe bureaucrats.
OpenStreetMap has strict demands on how contributors should structure their changes, but has no way to enforce them. The best it has is having someone review your changesets _after_ they've been already submitted, when it's too late as the "damage" is done. Start implementing a technical solution to problem, instead of disciplining the ones who are volunteering their time trying to curate your dataset for you.
(Also, if StreetComplete is a repeat offender, start a conversation with its devs instead of reprimanding users.)
Granted, that still doesn't solve the case that you may have no connectivity and are basically forced to upload a big batch later. It annoys me a bit as well.
On the other hand, despite how angry the changeset comments may read, this isn't a big deal. Globe-spanning changesets happen all the time and yes, they do annoy local users trying to keep a watch on what happens, but the history on the OSM site isn't really well-suited for that either. Also, with enough other changes, those large changesets also fall out of the history range fairly quickly, except in places where no one maps anyway.
Then why be angry about it at all? It either is worth gatekeeping about our not, decide.
> Globe-spanning changesets happen all the time
I noticed! But this only makes it worse. That's precisely my point: the requirements are there but can't be enforced and then the matter is addressed with... hostility between contributors? Who's benefiting from this behavior, exactly?
Thanking them and advising is the recommended way to handle this.
Unfortunately, as happens in all large crowdsourced areas, some don't adhere to the recommended ways and "do their own thing", often to the detriment of the project as a whole.
Some things like reverting vandalism or fixing large geometries like coastlines or motorways often make large edits necessary anyway. And often it just happens by accident. I have added some cleanup changes to the wrong changeset more than once and then got a changeset for a whole continent. The immediately visible history on the OSM site soon ceases to show that changeset and another will take its place, so personally I don't see much of a problem to get worked up about.
So my stance is basically: It happens, we can't really prevent it anyway (although I'd love a spatial auto-split in StreetComplete and JOSM – Every Door has it, I think), and as long as the norm is that people try to make smaller changesets, I guess we can live with that.