iPad Pro M2

304 points by doerig 3 years ago | 722 comments

roody15 3 years ago |

I Work IT in a institution with 290 employees and have had 5 switch to iPad Pro's to "replace" their laptop. I am now 5 for 5 with all asking for their laptop back.

iPadOS is nothing more than iPhoneOS renamed and the device is still too heavily crippled for desktop/laptop replacement.

In my mini test case scenario I never said a word..simply the employee asked for iPad Pro.. I just handed it to them... waited... then about 2 weeks later they asked for laptop back.

Not sure what Apple's plan here is but they continue to market this to schools and workplaces as a laptop replacement but refuse to add functionality to the OS and keep it overly crippled/restricted.

Terretta 3 years ago | |

On the contrary, I have owned MacBook Pros from the first to the last 17", then again every model since the 16". I also have iPad Pro with magic keyboard and touch pad. I don't travel with the MacBook any more, as I can do anything from the iPad. But it's not just me.

I've also been CTO at mega bank and hedge funds where we've rolled these out along side laptops. I've found that after initial objections, folks tend to agree. After a month or two, white collars who are not devs generally have switched to carrying the iPads, not laptops. Then the support costs basically go to zero, which matters a good deal at scale.

Users do have to think differently. That's ROUGH. Employees will ask for their old thing back if it changes their workflow, period. (See the book "Who Moved My Cheese?")

If they just use it, they generally find out it's fine. Could even be argued the Office / Teams ecosystem is superior.

Bonus: Letting employees have TWO screens (MacBook + iPad) also gives them two retina class monitors, portable, fantastic for hoteling or remote work or work from home. Two screens are better than one, and two that go with you are amazing. The new keyboard/cursor sharing while each device runs its own apps, with copy paste and drag drop between them is even cooler. In this model, the iPad Pro can become a Teams or Slack device, for instance, while other work stays on Mac, so you just wander off to a meeting with your collaboration tools intact. Instead of picking up where you left off, you just pick up and go.

pinot 3 years ago | | |

Anything in the gSuite is terrible on iPadOS. Excel is also fairly crippled. I can’t see how it’s usable at all.

Even just for emailing, GMail at least is a terrible application on iPad. For examples, cannot format anything, or view one email while writing another (that isn’t a reply).

I primarily use mine for

* Note taking

* Browsing/showing PDFs in a construction engineering setting. Nothing is faster or as flexible.

* Sketching for construction drawings

But the lack of good tabular worksheet and emails beyond quick replies pushes me back to my laptop all the time.

scoopertrooper 3 years ago | | |

Thing that really kills iPad for me is the web browsing experience. I just find iOS Safari so limiting.

It's also needlessly slow (considering M1). I suspect they have some optimisations designed for memory constrained devices like iPhone tuned in the same way for iPad.

Also ad blocker support is limited.

Oh and in a lot of video calling apps, if I try and browse something in Safari while the meeting is happening, then I'll suddenly stop sending video. Though that isn't strictly a Safari issue, more a Apple holding back features from third-party developer issue.

roody15 3 years ago | | |

" I don't travel with the MacBook any more, as I can do anything from the iPad. But it's not just me."

Interesting, how long have you been iPad Pro only? At the price point of the iPad pro with a keyboard and touch-pad.. why not just buy a laptop like the MacBook Air?

Hauling around an iPad pro with a touchpad.. and an external keyboard seems less convenient than just using something like the MacBook Air. Unless I am missing something here.

JAlexoid 3 years ago | | |

The biggest drawback of iPad OS is lack of windows, to drag around.If you don't need to multitask - iPad is OK.

I tried going all iPad and my husband opted for iPad Pro as personal computer - it is woefully underutilized.

"And that's not just me"

selfmodruntime 3 years ago | | |

The fact that you can do all your work on an iPad as well as you could do it on a Laptop may say more about your work than the devices. I do not mean this in an insulting way, but perhaps your work is so disconnected from technology or the creative process that you could do it, no matter the device you're using?

agentdrtran 3 years ago | | |

I cannot imagine doing my job on on iPad, it's way too limited. can you open more than one google doc at a time yet? run desktop extensions on the web? open complex sheets/excel files? I have no idea what job other than sending emails and being on video calls all day could work on an ipad.

thefz 3 years ago | | |

Maybe it's just me, but I can't think doing any meaningful work without access to the filesystem.

hnbear 3 years ago | | |

Ran a similar play recently and found a similar result.

Can’t understate how much people want the nice/fancy/pro device too. It’s hard to lure people off MBPs to generic PC laptops or chromebooks but an iPad Pro + magic keyboard is shiny enough.

Not just lower support cost, but much higher security bar at a lower cost too. Having been at the same fund, and other big banks, that’s an important consideration. Strong MDM, yubikey support if you want it, decent app sandboxing, etc. gives a lot of security control in a nicer manner than on a desktop OS.

Finally, I think the Office/GSuite issue depends so much on usecase and who’s using which bits of each suite. Gmail is so much nicer than Outlook, but GDrive horrible organizationally compared to OneDrive, while GDocs collab beats O365, etc.

jasonlotito 3 years ago | | |

This isn't contrary. Quite the opposite. None of the cases you present are iPad only. They are iPad alongside laptops. They might find cases where the iPad is fine, but none are iPad only.

And your "bonus" is basically an iPad Pro as a $1000+ chat device.

Now, if you mean that they added an iPad Pro, and eventually stopped ever using their laptop, that's a different story, but that's not what you said in your comment.

cm2187 3 years ago | | |

I wonder who at mega bank and hedge fund isn't using excel...

My experience at mega bank is that the IT department is often delusional about what business users actually do.

JumpCrisscross 3 years ago | | |

> don't travel with the MacBook any more, as I can do anything from the iPad

This is what everyone I know with both devices does. I still prefer my Mac, but I'm in the minority in the under-fifty crowd.

ghaff 3 years ago | | |

I know people who are laptop power users who are fine traveling with just a tablet and an external keyboard. (They still use a laptop when they're not traveling.)

Good for them but I've never been able to make it work for me. I'll just carry the extra weight. But, to your point, it's also true that, beyond getting an external keyboard, I've never really committed to making a tablet work for me as my only travel device (other than a phone).

bitL 3 years ago | | |

IMO companies should give their employees one e-ink screen instead to save their eyes. Most office-style work can be done well on those screens and they are much healthier. I now barely use paper as I use an A4 Onyx tablet with e-ink screen and do most of my notes there. It's so much better than using iPad for that.

jiveturkey 3 years ago | | |

> Instead of picking up where you left off, you just pick up and go.

Completely lost me. You don't logout, close all your windows, and so on, when you undock/unplug and go mobile. I never have a problem picking up and going with my laptop, then coming back to my desk right how I left it. And the 27" monitors (32" also common here) are far, far better for productivity and dev work than a 13" ipad HDR screen. iPad is a poor choice for a 2nd screen.

You can even create a separate workspace for when you detach. I don't do that myself but plenty of my colleagues do. (If you don't do that then sometimes a window re-homes itself if you resize or move it while undocked, thinking that is its new home.)

raxxorraxor 3 years ago | | |

You might not need anything else if you only do some presentation work, data display or write some mails.

It also shines for people that like to write non-digitally. Awesome to draw a quick sketch. But for anything else? Not really a working device. It seems to convince management because Apple is shiny.

This isn't some topic about thinking differently, this is a topic of being restricted, which frankly iOS (before rebranding) simply does to you. Maybe you can map all your workflows to some iOS tool, but I assure you that a notebook is still more powerful. The two monitors might indeed be an advantage though and I hate any form of hoteling and luckily don't do that too often.

danielmarkbruce 3 years ago | | |

>> Then the support costs basically go to zero, which matters a good deal at scale.

Genuine question - what is the biggest time sink/cost for support on laptops? Put another way, exactly why do support costs drop so much with the ipads?

truncate 3 years ago | | |

I think for me a major bottleneck of using iPad as laptop is that the screen is still gonna be on heavier compared to keyboard, and the whole combo doesn't feel as solid and sturdy as a good laptop does. iPad feel more physically free in some ways (you can just use screen etc ...), and physically restrictive in others (doesn't feel like one big sturdy unit with keyboard).

That all aside, as an engineer it's too restrictive and less fun. I'm sure it can get a lot of other non-programming workflows done quite well though.

overgard 3 years ago | | |

A few questions since this is a novel thing I haven't really heard of in the business world!

1) What tasks do the people you manage tend to do on their machines?

2) Why replace the laptops with iPads if you expected it to be disruptive for a month?

debaserab2 3 years ago | | |

Why do the support costs go to zero? I would think iPads would bring their own set of problems/hazards that laptops may not have.

swah 3 years ago | | |

Are you talking about second screen as in Sidecar - or just to open the same app that you would use a Macbook for - eg Slack, email?

pottertheotter 3 years ago | | |

I think there's a big difference between traveling with an iPad Pro and only having an iPad Pro.

hartator 3 years ago | | |

> Two screens are better than one

Seems annoying actually.

bradgessler 3 years ago | |

I used the iPad Pro for about 2 years for nothing but productivity apps and it was overall pretty great.

It wasn't without issue though, here's what I ran into:

1. I didn't run any dev tools on the iPad. That's insane. I used a laptop running macOS for that.

2. Google Docs updates would always ship with weird bugs, like if I'm editing a cell in a Google Sheet and hit space, the space wouldn't insert.

3. There's loads of issues with drag and drop in most apps. Dragging and dropping a picture from Photos into a document is the most common flow which works in some apps, but not in others.

The plus sides:

1. The built-in cellular connection is amazing. I wish MacBook Airs would ship with built-in cellular.

2. The Apple Pencil (2nd gen) is great if you design software or UX.

jiveturkey 3 years ago | | |

> 1. The built-in cellular connection is amazing. I wish MacBook Airs would ship with built-in cellular.

don't you always have your phone on you? i don't have any issue at all tethering.

alistairSH 3 years ago | | |

Google Docs updates would always ship with weird bugs

Is that really an Apple problem? Sounds like Google is just lazy with QA on Apple devices.

Did you try Numbers or Excel and have similar problems?

derefr 3 years ago | |

> but refuse to add functionality to the OS and keep it overly crippled/restricted

What would the point of "adding functionality to the OS" be? If they wanted to put macOS on iPads, they'd just put macOS on iPads.

My understanding at Apple's strategy here is that they're simultaneously exploring two different GUI paradigms — almost pitting them against one-another to see which wins (or, if you like, making a hedged bet):

• macOS, for building "Unix pipeline-like" workflows where you point different programs-as-tools at the same document or take one program's output as another's input. Apple encourages macOS developers to make this kind of app.

• iPadOS, for building "all-in-one silo" workflows (think: Photoshop, Garage Band, XCode), where the developer intends to solve fully for a use-case, such that people with that use-case can get by using only their app. In these cases, rather than interacting with other apps, a siloed app will embed whatever other accessory workflows a user might need, either directly (e.g. XCode embedding a terminal console) or through plugins (Photoshop plugins, Garage Band VST support.) The user might use other apps at the same time as this app, but not in a way where the apps are sharing data or interacting in any way; rather merely using each app to "do what it does" — e.g. referencing a design diagram in Miro while implementing that design in XCode, and writing down reminders in some reminders app. (Thus, the iPadOS 16's Stage Manager, which assumes you want several apps on screen at once, but doesn't implement drag-and-drop between apps or any other kind of useful inter-app interaction.)

As a user, as long as each user-story you have has been perfectly addressed by some particular siloed iPadOS app, then iPadOS should work for you. (And there are a lot of people whose user-stories have all been perfectly addressed by these siloed iPadOS apps — mostly, people with boring, predictable, traditional workflows. Novelists; illustrators; business executives; possibly salespeople.)

However, if your workflow is niche or "constantly reinventing itself" enough that nobody's ever going to make a siloed app specifically for your needs, and so you expect to get things done by throwing files between various different tools all day — then iPadOS is never going to work for you. You need a desktop OS designed around that kind of thing.

smoldesu 3 years ago | | |

Well, MacOS won. Silos don't work, and they especially don't work when Apple controls the means of distribution single-handedly. MacOS has clutched onto a shred of relevance by letting the user install package managers, download software from the web, run software compilers, and so much more. There is not a future where iPadOS "wins" and MacOS is slayed in ritual combat, or something. It's obviously not a contest, and even by your own admission the separation of these OSes is mostly arbitrary. Apple knows they're gimping the iPad, they're just expecting other people to not care.

Everyone would be happy if Apple focused more on perfecting the iPad's hardware instead of pushing iPadOS to the brink. An iPad with options to run MacOS, iPadOS or Linux would be the knockout product-of-the-decade for Apple IMO. Judging by the design of Monterey, I think iPad/Mac convergence seems fairly likely.

Fiahil 3 years ago | | |

> As a user, as long as each user-story you have has been perfectly addressed by some particular siloed iPadOS app, then iPadOS should work for you.

And then I tried sending a pdf by email. Oh well.

Can I share it on the corporate FTP ? Oh no.

Let me airdrop this to you... Wait... is this a windows / android device ?

...

Alright, I'll just use my laptop. My iPad is too niche for this workflow.

wilg 3 years ago | |

I don't even understand the advantage of an iPad for non-drawing work. It's just a worse laptop with a too-small keyboard that can fall off and a square screen so it's not good to watch video on and an OS that doesn't do anything well. But Mac laptops are amazing, run all the same software, and don't have any of these problems.

themagician 3 years ago | | |

I can't adapt to the workflow on an iPad either, and I have tried. I have really tried. However, I have seen other that have. To them the iPad is easy and macOS is overly complicated.

I am not sure if general computing is changing or there are now two branches, but I have watched other people do things on iPads that I consider impossible. Even simple things, like working in Excel, I find challenging on an iPad. But when I watch someone else who sort of "grew up" on iOS work in Excel on an iPad they are like some kind of wizard. I have found myself more than once now asking someone, "How did you do that?" feelsbadman.jpg

I think a lot comes down to muscle memory and shortcuts. While I know many/most of the shortcuts on iPadOS they are not automatic for me the way they are on macOS. I often have to think, "Wait… how do I do this on the iPad again," for even simple things. I even find drawing applications unintuitive. In the Adobe suite everything is explicit. In Procreate everything is unlabeled. This is even true in consumer applications, like Facebook vs Snapchat. Pinch here, tap there. Swipe from one of the four sides to reveal some function that is completely hidden. But for some people this is intuitive. There is an additional layer (or two) of UI abstraction in iOS/iPadOS that I have not internalized.

There definitely ARE some things you can't do on an iPad, but that list is actually shorter than you might think. There are a lot of things that you can do, they are just done differently… and in a way that, at least for me, seems to take a lot more work. But for others they are like, "Eww, why do I have to look for an icon and move the cursor over to it when I can just…" and then they proceed to input what is essentially sign language into the screen while holding down a modifier key.

alistairSH 3 years ago | | |

I have an iPad Pro M1 11" with the Magic Keyboard.

It doesn't fall off or detach unexpectedly at all. And the keyboard size is close enough to "normal" that I don't notice for normal typing. The only thing I miss is a dedicated ESC key.

All that said, it only replaced my personal laptop. I continue to use a 13" MBP at work.

thih9 3 years ago | | |

Work is not always about content creation, some people work mostly by consuming content (reading websites, browsing photos, selecting movie clips, navigating PDFs, or something else) and iPad is great for consuming content.

pottertheotter 3 years ago | | |

I think it's superior for reading. Newsletters, news, articles, etc.

JimDabell 3 years ago | |

> In my mini test case scenario I never said a word..simply the employee asked for iPad Pro.. I just handed it to them... waited... then about 2 weeks later they asked for laptop back.

If you work in IT with hundreds of staff members, why would you let them pick their own devices with zero guidance? This seems like a recipe for disaster no matter which product is picked. Do you let them do this with laptops / printers / operating systems / etc.?

roody15 3 years ago | | |

Nope there are only three computer models to choose from and that we support. The iPad Pro was added as a 4th option based on a higher admin recommendation (not in IT ). However we are now back to supporting 3 models.

martin_drapeau 3 years ago | |

My daughter is 16 and has used an iPad for school for many years. Latptops are foreign to her. Same for her cohort. They are the next generation of adults and have replaced desktops and laptops with iPads and iPhones.

solaceb 3 years ago | | |

That is scary to me, an entire generation growing up within the walled garden and perceiving only Apple's products as what is possible for computers to accomplish. These computers are confining, as much as their constriction liberates the user in its simplicity, it is a real constriction. To me, that's exactly what the FLOSS movement hoped to avoid, and failed to do so by advocating for a purist f/open stance rather than winning smaller battles with open source at least staying in the war for market share.

anotherman554 3 years ago | | |

I believe Chromebooks are more popular in the education market in general.

jbellis 3 years ago | |

If they would just allow UTM to run, that would be good enough for me.

https://getutm.app/

avidphantasm 3 years ago | | |

This! They even enabled swap on iPadOS 16. Why oh why can’t I run a VM?

lucasyvas 3 years ago | |

It honestly just needs virtualization. They don't care about evolving the product because they are mortified of cannibalizing a revenue stream in an official way.

Only nerds and IT would bother with virtualization and they'd net a new sale.

I've been eyeing an iPad Pro, but it's just a colossal waste as it trends strongly toward only consumption, which is frankly a poor purchase.

bee_rider 3 years ago | |

Programming on the iPad was OK, in the sense that Blink Shell is a better ssh client than PuTTY, and I don't want to carry my desktop around with me. Eventually I switched back to a Linux 2-in-1 laptop -- it is nice to be able to run GUI applications locally, but it is nowhere near as good a tablet as an iPad despite whatever tweaking I try...

cute_boi 3 years ago | | |

actually many people don't use putty and recommending putty in 2022 is not that good. Windows terminal etc can easily do ssh without any hassles.

Lio 3 years ago | |

What kills it for me are the apps where you can't copy a single word. e.g. Apple's own Messages app, you're forced to copy the whole message.

Same for the spell checker. For some reason I have ridiculous trouble triggering it in certain apps. I can see the mistake underlined in red but I really struggle to get trigger the correction popup instead of the "copy, lookup, etc" popup.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think I could consider an iPad as laptop replacements without some basic changes to iPadOS.

thiht 3 years ago | | |

> apps where you can't copy a single word

This one is ridiculous. On Reddit I always want to quote part of a message or copy a phrase to translate it, and it’s literally impossible to do. You have to copy the whole message, paste it in a text editor or in Notes, and finally copy what you actually wanted to copy.

This should be solved at the OS level.

KolenCh 3 years ago | |

By design it is never going to be able to replace a "laptop" running desktop OS. If the workplace is not designed to work with iPad, then I doubt anyone really can replace even a MacBook with iPad.

Your "mini test" is invalid because they are allowed to choose, ie intermixing all sort of OSes together. In that case it is very likely any workflow the iPad excels at are not used in the workplace, and vice versa that anyone else' workflow is really traditional (as simple as depending on the file system a lot) that doesn't play well with iPad.

When your mini test doesn't agree with how successful it is (for business to deploy iPad), it just means your mini test is nowhere near the norm.

Eg you mentioned school, that's the best case for the iPad to shine, because everyone are mandated to use iPad, and the IT would have already figure out how to perform all needed tasks. (And bonus is that the students are a blank state with no prior bias on how to do a certain thing.)

tshaddox 3 years ago | |

I can't speak to how Apple attempts to make deals with schools and workplaces, but their normal consumer marketing seems to pretty clearly highlight the differences between a MacBook and an iPad. If anything they seem to go out of their way to maintain significant differences in the two operating systems (which, ironically, is also a very popular complaint in tech circles).

qubex 3 years ago | |

I have an executive roll and I used an iPad almost exclusively from probably 2013 until about six months ago. It’s eminently doable.

steve_adams_86 3 years ago | |

Kids who don’t know better might become accustomed to it and, unless they are power users or interested to become that, they might prefer to scrape by with the iPad.

There is pretty strong evidence that people aren’t great at using full fledged operating systems and feel much more comfortable on a slate with a dumbed down UI

criddell 3 years ago | | |

Most people aren't power users. An iPad is a great device for lots of people. It's my favorite computer to use mostly because of the excellent apps.

What you call a dumbed down UI, I call streamlined. It's simple, focused, and fast.

jahewson 3 years ago | | |

I would not say that “people aren’t great at using full fledged operating systems” but that fully fledged operating systems aren’t great at accommodating people.

kaycebasques 3 years ago |

One current day iPad killer app IMO is Procreate. It's basically a more intuitive version of Adobe Illustrator completely optimized for iPad + iPen. I bought my then girlfriend (now wife :D) an iPad for her bday in 2020 accepting the risk that we're spending a lot of money on an activity she might not stick with (digital illustration). Happy to report that I was totally wrong and we have def gotten our money's worth through the countless hours she has logged creating art. If she didn't have such a stellar app like Procreate she probably would have tried out other illustration methods. Not a guerilla marketing plug, I have no vested interest in Apple or Procreate. Just sharing an app outside my space that seems to not get much attention here on HN. You can check out my wife's art at https://instagram.com/gabjoart

lapcat 3 years ago |

I love how "Desktop-class apps" means extremely basic features available decades ago on desktop: "consistent undo and redo, a redesigned inline find-and-replace experience, a new document menu, customizable toolbars, and the ability to change file extensions, view folder size".

delta_p_delta_x 3 years ago |

As a commment on the /r/iPad subreddit said, Apple accidentally made the most future-proof devices with the 2018 iPad Pros. There is not a single app that makes full use of the increased CPU power of these new iPads.

I own a 2018 11" iPP, and it has been a game-changer in the way I have studied. After buying it, I haven't printed a single sheet of paper for note-taking. It's also a much better Netflix device than my phone.

drewg123 3 years ago |

As far as I know, this is the first Apple hardware to support Wifi 6E, which is something I've been waiting on for what feels like forever.

I'm hoping the rumored new laptops will also support 6E.

For those that don't know, Wifi-6E uses the 6Ghz band, and I anticipate it will be very helpful in crowded residential environments where lots of Wifi APs are all landing on the same few 2.4 and 5Ghz channels.

jessriedel 3 years ago | |

I can't understand the emphasis on more bandwidth. The pain with wifi is overwhelmingly dominated by the slowness establishing a connection (why does it take more than a second?!), with connection reliability and latency (for video calls) also being important.

"Wifi 7: 10 Terrabyte/sec transfer speeds" *yawn*

"Wifi 7: Connects in 500 ms, latency 20 ms, tri-band fallover for 5-nines reliability" *Opens checkbook*

crazygringo 3 years ago | | |

I've never once noticed slowness in connecting as bothering me at all. Are you connecting to new Wi-Fi networks hundreds of times a day or something? My iPad just... stays connected to the networks it knows.

And I believe that higher bandwidth is the solution to better reliability and latency when you've got lots of devices sharing the same router, or other interference. Isn't that how digital radio works?

jayd16 3 years ago | | |

Wifi is still time sliced, right? More bandwidth means more idle time means lower latency, no?

bombcar 3 years ago | | |

All I want is wireless devices that can be connected to my 2.4GHz and 5Gz network at the same time with the same IP.

nfriedly 3 years ago | |

Agreed! The thing about 6ghz is that it doesn't travel through walls as well, and tends to have shorter range in general.

On the surface, this seems like a negative, but if you're in a crowded apartment building, it can actually be a major benefit. Even if a bunch of your neighbors end up using it on the same channel as you, you won't experience as much interference because the walls will attenuate their signals.

Of course, a single AP might not reliably cover your entire home in 6ghz, but you can always fall back to 2.4 and 5ghz and/or get more APs.

Additionally, WiFi 6 (and 6e) is better in general at detecting neighboring networks across all frequency bands and reducing interference automatically.

uses 3 years ago |

Pretty surprised they left the front camera on the side of the device. I can't figure out why they would think that makes sense after using it even once. It's so awkward trying to do a meeting and I have this weird camera angle coming from the corner of my face. The alternative is portrait orientation, which puts the camera really far from the center of the screen - feels like it's coming from above or below my face - and puts my video feed opposite to the orientation of my audience's screens, while also not being able to lean on the folded case.

retskrad 3 years ago |

Here in Scandinavia, the base iPhone 14 Pro Max, M2 MacBook Air and the new M2 iPad Pro all cost the same: $1,484. Good lord!

whalesalad 3 years ago | |

lol - they're all basically the exact same thing with a different display

davnicwil 3 years ago | | |

Stepping back and reflecting on the fact this is true is very cool indeed.

thih9 3 years ago | | |

In case of the MacBook and the iPad, seems like it’s more about the OS. At least that’s what most comments here are mentioning when comparing an iPad to a MacBook.

atty 3 years ago |

They keep on pushing on the power of the iPads. Out of curiosity, does anyone really use their iPads for something they’d consider really compute intensive? I find that the best use of a tablet is reading and watching videos. Any time I want to do anything complex or computationally intensive I find a laptop to be much more efficient, both in terms of the OS flexibility and better input devices.

duxup 3 years ago |

For me this is one of those announcements that I'm excited to see the new version, so that I can maybe buy the previous version ;)

That's not a knock on the new version in any way, just a reflection of how much I value this particular type of device / where I feel I need more power and etc.

flumpcakes 3 years ago | |

I just purchased the iPad Air last week. The model I went for was 720 in my local currency, and after today's shop update is now 850. It looks like the Magic Keyboard also increased from 270 to 330.

knolan 3 years ago |

I’m probably going to get the 12.9” model. I’m a lecturer and it’ll be very useful for my teaching. Not so much for research where I’m working with stuff like Matlab and OpenFOAM and specialist Windows software for laboratory instruments.

Currently I use my Mac and occasionally sidecar with an old 10.5” iPad Pro so I can annotate my mirrored slides while I go. It works but is awkward. When using a projector over HDMI it’s energy intensive so I need to bring along my Mac’s power brick. Often the display scaling from connecting to the room projector will offset my pencil position, the order you connect stuff seems to matter.

I teach a combination of slides and Jupyter notebooks so I need to verify that everything works as expected.

I could try to use a lightning to HDMI adapter and leave the Mac in my office, but I’m also interested in the LiDAR scanner for some research activities.

I also find the iPad great for bringing along to meetings and labs where you want to sketch stuff out, you can email the result to a student after.

I find it a useful tool for class prep also.

So it’s not a replacement for my laptop, but it’ll help me with a significant part of my day to day activities.

dubya 3 years ago | |

The iPad with pencil is really useful for marking up student papers. I bought one during Covid when everything was being turned in online, but some students still prefer to turn in scans rather than paper.

The downside is that Apple doesn't support user accounts, so I won't use anything that everyone in my family shouldn't have access to. Grading only works because it's easy to log out of Canvas. A lot of the nifty features require you to be logged in with your Apple ID, and I'm just not buying an iPad for every family member who might like to use it sometimes.

knolan 3 years ago | | |

I tend to pass my old devices down. My partner has my ancient ‘iPad Air 2’which ddg tells me has an A8X and it is working perfectly for her needs.

MichaelZuo 3 years ago |

Interestingly, the 11 inch iPad Pro still retains the LED display of the 2018 iPad Pro, unlike the FALD display of the 12.9 inch.

Seems like display technology has matured and reached an equilibrium pricing state if even Apple can't justify the cost of investing in producing the fancier displays in a second size.

zuhsetaqi 3 years ago | |

Maybe it's also because of the cooling capacity of the 12.9" vs the 11" iPad

MichaelZuo 3 years ago | | |

From what I understand it's the exact same cooling design except the larger surface area and thermal mass of the 12.9, which is almost entirely negated by the larger display generating more heat.

galoisscobi 3 years ago |

I wonder why developer tools are not a priority for Apple for “pro” iPads. At this point, it uses the M2 chip so the limitations on running IDEs, compilers and other tools just seem arbitrarily imposed.

bootsup 3 years ago |

I'm a student, about to graduate from a BSN nursing program that's online except clinicals. I went from using a Dell laptop to using a Pinebook Pro to mostly using an iPad Air (4th gen) for everything, without making an Apple account (so no installing apps).

The iPad is managed by my uni, who installed the Canvas LMS app. I can read pdfs in the Files app, submit papers written in the Word app, attend class with the Zoom ap. Most of work happens in Safari: watching videos, taking exams, etc. I'm a heavy terminal user, so use a GateOne gateway for ssh access in the browser, allowing me to do most serious work on my user's account on a NetBSD server, working in vim, mutt, sc (spreadsheet), manipulating text with awk, browsing with lynx, managing my website, etc.

A good dock is important. I use the Pinebook Pro usb-c dock with a scroll-wheel 3-button Dell mouse and Model M buckling-spring keyboard. A recent update let bluetooth keep sending music to my stereo when docked. Keyboard shortcuts (like ctrl-a and ctrl-e for moving around the lines of a textfile) are a big part of my workflow. The docked peripherals allow more functionality than the Smart Keyboard folio. I don't like touch screens.

When I graduate, I'll probably fall back to something I like better (my little GPD or old ThinkPad X61), but for school the iPad + folio keyboard + dock + shell account is better than any other single device I have tried.

joeman1000 3 years ago |

Going on from all of the comments here about the iPad not being able to replace a computer: it’s true. The I/O is not as good and the OS is lacking in terms of being able to do ‘what I want’ with it. It’s just not a computer. It’s a big phone. With that out of the way, I think it still kicks arse. I grab it when:

+ I just want to watch something (yt, streaming)

+ I want to play some music (great speakers)

+ I want to use a computer in a dangerous place (bath, kitchen bench)

+ I don’t want to lug my laptop around

+ I just want to sketch something

+ Want to read/markup a pdf

+ read a long article on the couch

+ play a game on the bus (Papers Please)

It’s great for these quick sessions. It’s more of a ‘life’ computer, where I don’t have to worry so much about it and it sort of ‘gets out of the way’.

It definitely compliments my laptop but cannot ever replace it.

thirdsun 3 years ago | |

I really love the versatility of my iPad as well but this single use case you mentioned I can't understand:

> + I want to play some music (great speakers)

Yes, the speakers are fine for their size and certainly good enough to listen to a podcast or talk-heavy Youtube video but I couldn't imagine listening to any music on it. Any budget bluetooth speaker for less than 100 bucks or headphones will sound much, much better.

joeman1000 3 years ago | | |

They’re good enough to just play some music if I’m sitting in the bath or can’t be bothered with a Bluetooth speaker.

bwanab 3 years ago |

Maybe it's my bias as a musician, but as long as Apple doesn't put Logic on the iPad, it's just not a system that works as a piece of professional kit.

CharlesW 3 years ago | |

As you know (but others may not), the idea is that you get as far as you can get in GarageBand, then move the project to Logic¹. There's also a way to export a "to go" mix from Logic for GarageBand².

You can get surprisingly far with just GarageBand³.

¹ https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/garageband-projects... ² https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/share-a-project-to-... ³ https://www.melodynest.com/hit-songs-produced-on-garageband/

codq 3 years ago | |

No Logic on iPad and the sunsetting of Music Memos... I sometimes feel like Apple is becoming hostile to musicians.

Insanity 3 years ago |

I have seen some discussions on this post about the use of iPad Pro as a device for actual work, so I will chime in with my experience.

First of, I love the iPad Pro and have been using it for about a year almost daily. I use it for leisure as well as actual work. I am currently writing a technical book, and I decided to do it all on my iPad. I hook up my external keyboard and the Mx Master mouse is paired to both my MacBook and iPad, so I can easily switch.

I initially thought that I would not really like it, but ended up using it as my preferred to device for such work. I can easily sketch things in GoodNotes, and writing with the pen helps me think. I use Termius to ssh into my development machine when I need to write some code, and I use Word to write the text content. I also use the GitHub app although that doesn’t work perfectly so I use the web version as well.

I hardly ever use split screen, so each app is essentially in distraction_free mode. I also notice that I get side tracked way less (no slack, email, or other distractions which I check often on my MacBook). Plus when travelling I only take my iPad now, I worked from airports and hotels only on this device.

I was definitely sceptical about it, but ended up loving it. It actually made me reconsider buying a new macbook, and at this point I would rather upgrade my iPad than buy the new MacBook anyway.

(It is also a great leisure device, depending on what you do. I have Netflix and YouTube on here, and I occasionally draw a bit).

In my day job, I am an engineering manager and it take notes on the iPad as well. Would I switch to the iPad for full Time development? No, probably not. But I do use it for my side projects, and for something like advent of code it is good enough as well.

can16358p 3 years ago |

Seriously, they should bring smart folio back. The one that doesn't have the unnecessary backside but only the side and the front cover.

gubikmic 3 years ago | |

This! (you mean the Smart Cover though)

Apple is pretending weight doesn't matter. They're all clunkers, even the "Air", once you add the keyboard.

My old 12" iPad Pro with the Smart Cover is still lighter than any of the new combos and yet it's heavy compared to certain Android tablets of the same size.

They're awfully heavy for a device that I treat like a dynamic book.

can16358p 3 years ago | | |

You're right. I messed up the naming and I can't edit the comment anymore.

Yes I mean Smart Cover.

gumby 3 years ago | |

I really miss that too! Unfortunately iPads now stupidly have a camera bump

user_7832 3 years ago | |

Do you have an image or link of which one this is?

> Seriously, they should bring smart folio back. The one that doesn't have the unnecessary backside but only the side and the front cover.

Jtsummers 3 years ago | | |

I think they mean the Smart Cover option.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ4L2ZM/A/ipad-smart-cove...

Magnetically attached to an edge, only covers the front when "closed", the back when open, or can be folded up to provide a stand.

jbellis 3 years ago | |

Did they discontinue smart folio keyboard? Magic Keyboard is almost 2x as heavy.

kstrauser 3 years ago | | |

No, they fortunately still sell it: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MXNL2LL/A/smart-keyboard-...

It's my favorite case.

awelkie 3 years ago |

I live pretty far from my parents, and I really want to set them up with a nice video conferencing setup so we can chat as well as in person. I started to spec out a nice setup with open-back headphones, 60 Hz 1080p camera, nice microphone, low latency screen, the works. But this would cost at least $1k, and I'm sure it would be difficult for them to operate. Plus it would be hard to use in certain situations like with children or while eating.

So I've decided to get them the iPad Pro. I'm trusting Apple to focus on things like screen latency and microphone/speaker quality in their products. Plus it should be quite easy for my parents to use. It just seems to me like the iPad Pro is the best product for setting up non-tech people with a decent videoconferencing setup.

Has anyone else solved this problem, or have thoughts on using an iPad for video chatting?

skybrian 3 years ago | |

For video chat, you don't need the latest. After the camera on my MacBook stopped working, I started using a 5th gen iPad mini. I use it with a stand on the kitchen table, in landscape mode, and it's fine.

Bigger isn't necessarily better. My wife has a full-size iPad and I find it awkwardly big for most purposes.

But for ease of use for the technically challenged, I think something like a Nest Hub Max might be better, since it will automatically point the camera. Caveats: it's not easy to set up for someone without a cell phone (it's technically unsupported), but once you do it for them, it's easy to make a call. Also, weirdly, the video only works when they call me; if I call them it's audio only. (I ask them to call me back.)

llampx 3 years ago | |

> nice setup with open-back headphones, 60 Hz 1080p camera, nice microphone, low latency screen, the works.

Why do all these niceties go out the window when the alternative is an iPad?

Based on the use case, a simple last-gen iPad should do the job just as well.

zalthor 3 years ago | |

I felt like the system that’s in the portal from Facebook would be the ideal vc setup for my parents (i.e. video calling on a tv). Though, there’s no way I’d want to put a camera from Facebook in my parents house. I did try Google duo (I guess it’s call meet now?) with a Google tv, but since it was with a 3rd party web cam, things like autofocus didn’t work as well as I’d like.

syntaxing 3 years ago | |

Second with what others said, the new standard iPad should fit your bill. It has the ultrawide camera too with people tracking which makes it even better.

gnicholas 3 years ago |

Interestingly the Apple Pencil "hover" feature doesn't require a new generation of Pencil — this works on the 2nd Gen.

Overall, this looks like it is clearly aimed at creators. I have the 2018 Pro with Magic Keyboard and have zero interest in upgrading to this model. Honestly I almost wish I could trade my Pro for a Mini, since it's more pocket-able, and I mainly use my Pro for demoing my startup's technology.

duxup 3 years ago | |

It seems like Apple has been embracing the folks who live and die on their iPad full time or mostly full time.

I don't think I could do that now but there seems to be a sizable crowd who works that way and maybe is the future.

boppo1 3 years ago | |

> Interestingly the Apple Pencil "hover" feature doesn't require a new generation of Pencil

Yeah, it requires a new ipad.

I'm a bit salty, not gonna lie. This has been basic on wacoms forever.

__jl__ 3 years ago |

The iPad Pro is an amazing piece of hardware! But the last iterations make zero difference for most consumers. The hardware improved rapidly over a couple of years. Both the 2017 model (move from 9.7 to 10.5 screen) and the 2018 model (new design without home bottom, USB-C, Gen 2 Pencil) were huge steps. Magic Keyboard from 2020 was a great addition as well and works with the 2018 model. For my own usage, the 2018 model is pretty much feature complete from a hardware perspective. Software makes the big difference now.

I am still amazed by my 2018 iPad pro four years later!

asimpletune 3 years ago |

The convergence between iPad and Mac is pretty brilliant. If you think about it, the iPad now has a lot of features that are much better than a top of the line Mac, like 5g and the display tech.

It’s all still too new but if you read the tea leaves we are heading towards a convergence. In the future there will be a device that behaves like an iPad on its own. With an app and touch oriented experience, but when connected to a keyboard and mouse will be like a Mac today. The universal app stuff is a great indicator of them moving in that direction, even if it’s still new.

One thing I don’t really understand though is how a Unix interface will work with a device that is also iPad OS. Like, if you can install stuff from online, eg through home brew, will you be able to side load apps? If that’s the case I think the app experience might suffer, but at the same time if the Unix experience has its wings clipped then what do they plan to replace it with?

I mean that sincerely. I don’t think apple is so naive as to think they can make macs into iPads and not provide an alternative. Maybe they’ll offer a native package manager, one that’s even reverse compatible with brew as a starting point, and then provide an integrated notary process as part of that system for publishing recipes.

dekhn 3 years ago |

Is anybody hooking up a keyboard and mouse to their ipad pro and using it as an interface to a remote desktop running in the cloud? If so, what software stack?

skazazes 3 years ago | |

code-server https://github.com/coder/code-server works fairly well and can be saved to the home screen as a web applet to get rid of the browser URL bar. Their are a few UI issues related to touch but it has served well enough for some light work.

You can also use a remote apps like Rainway/TeamViewer/RDP/VNC somewhat successfully to get a more full desktop experience. Unfortunately they all seem to have their own input caveats that take some getting used to.

I am personally waiting for Parsec to release native iPadOS and tvOS clients as it provides the best experience I have found.

It seems like the gaming oriented remote desktop apps (Rainway https://rainway.com/, Parsec https://parsec.app/) are the best though as the latency on the more traditional ones is somewhat of a hindrance.

USB/Bluetooth keyboard and mouse support tends to work okay, but the simulated touch mouse makes getting used to things tough. If you have not tried using iPad OS with a mouse I suggest you look into before making a purchase as it is a fairly limiting experience.

dekhn 3 years ago | | |

Thanks. I wodner if you could tether an ipad and raspberry pi running Code (which isn't really RDP, but a web app that includes a shell) in a fairly self-contained way.

doerig 3 years ago |

From the press release: "The 11-inch iPad Pro starts at $799 (US) for the Wi-Fi model and $999 (US) for the Wi-Fi + Cellular model; the 12.9-inch iPad Pro starts at $1,099 (US) for the Wi-Fi model, and $1,299 (US) for the Wi-Fi + Cellular model."

stewx 3 years ago |

> the 16-core Neural Engine can process 15.8 trillion operations per second — 40 percent more than M1 — making iPad Pro even more powerful when handling machine learning tasks

Do people actually use the iPad for machine learning?

edude03 3 years ago | |

Yeah actually, it's really good for inference at the edge. You might be thinking of training though which I doubt anyone does

foxandmouse 3 years ago |

The high refresh rate being limited to pro models seems like apple deliberately holding back a feature from it's lesser expensive models to avoid it competing with its more expensive models.

joshl32532 3 years ago | |

Well, why would any business want to have a standout SKU, and hurt their other SKUs? I guess this could also be a tactic, make one model "best feature/price ratio".

For better or worse, there's not "bang for the buck" iPad model. It really scales linearly. The more you pay, the more you get.

New budget iPad - $450 - Doesn't support Pencil 2. Want that? Upgrade to Air. Weakest processor. iPad Air - $599 - Support Pencil 2. Weaker screen technology. Mid tier processor. iPad Pro - $799 - Best of everything (except for MiniLED, which you need the 13" iPad Pro).

It really depends on how much features you can live with.

etchalon 3 years ago | |

Or it could be about profit margins.

Gwarzo 3 years ago |

I would almost want to create a new thread for this, but what is the use case of a tablet? Is this for fulltime physical meeting goers to stylishly take notes?

Is there some benefit to using this over a laptop?

deepspace 3 years ago | |

I use my tablet about as much as my desktop and laptop. My use cases are:

(1) Personal entertainment device. When relaxing on a chair or in bed, a laptop is too unwieldy. The TV gets fought over. Pretty much all my movie / YouTube watching is done on the iPad with headphones.

(2) eBook reader. Since my iPad is always withing reach, it makes sense to store all my books on it.

(3) Stylish note-taker. Not a significant part of my use, but I occasionally have stand-up meetings, and meetings in awkward locations, where a tablet makes more sense than a laptop.

(4) Signing stuff. It is much easier to store a document to be signed in OneDrive, open it on the iPad and sign it with the stylus than it is to print-sign-scan.

piva00 3 years ago | |

I was on the fence when the iPad Pro M1 was released, it seemed to finally tick off as a laptop replacement for some of my hobbies (photography and music) but unfortunately it is not a desktop OS, not supporting desktop workflows and apps that I'm used to.

If it was a screen-only version of my MBA M1 I could definitely ditch the MBA and use an iPad exclusively, even if it required attaching a keyboard sometimes. The lacking software still makes it much more of a luxury to me than something to actually replace my use cases for a portable computer... I could afford one but see absolutely no usage given that my MBA is already extremely portable and works like I expect.

gherkinnn 3 years ago | |

For me it’s the form factor.

It’s the perfect thing to take travelling. And on the work side, the pen is astonishingly good as is the app ecosystem.

It also functions as a second screen for a macbook.

Is it necessary? No. Have I spent money in worse? Absolutely.

randcraw 3 years ago | |

The iPad boots up in just 1 second. I can do 90% of what I do on a computer on it, at a much more adjustable angle, and it's a lot more portable.

A tablet is integrated into my daily routine to a degree a laptop will never be.

theshrike79 3 years ago | |

I can whip out my iPad when I'm on the train to work and watch streamed or locally downloaded stuff, a laptop is way too cumbersome for that even on a semi-crowded train.

With a keyboard cover I can actually use it for messaging, emails, IM and maybe light writing. Using a stylus, I can either take freeform notes or draw stuff faster than I can with a mouse or touchpad.

And in the pre-M1 days an iPad smoked pretty much every laptop in battery performance.

squeaky-clean 3 years ago | |

I bought my iPad (non-pro) mainly to play online chess, to read comic books, and for D&D pdfs at the table. It's also a nice web-browsing and video watching machine. The iPad Pro's are a bit excessive for that sort of "consumer" usage though.

The only great use-case I've seen for the pro is 2d digital art. I have a few artist friends who love the pro+pencil.

Music production on one really interests me, but none of my favorite plugins (effects and instruments) that work MacOS/Windows exist for the ipad. They also don't offer enough storage at the high end Komplete 14 Ultimate is 680GB. Each of the Spitfire sample libraries is near 200GB

There are some nice sequencing apps, but again don't need the pro for that, I just send the MIDI or OSC data to a "real" computer running a "real" DAW.

112233 3 years ago | | |

You mention Komplete — is there a Kontakt player or an alternative for ipad? Or do you have a way of converting kontakt instrument into something else?

I think you can get a lot out of ipad as a plugin host, by using IDAM or something like Sonobus. A few FabFilter AUv3s and you've basically saved the cost of an iPad. Plus, the touchscreen for control.

random42_ 3 years ago | |

I know it's very niche and doesn't apply to everybody but I know of a bunch of comic book/comic strip artists that are doing more and more work on the iPad pro and less on their Wacom devices.

boppo1 3 years ago | |

Illustrators/sculptors. It's not as good as wacom+workstation, but I like not being bound to one place.

nickthegreek 3 years ago | |

I know alot of tattoo artists, and they all use ipads for their designs.

gedy 3 years ago |

Looks really nice, but as a developer I'm unwilling to give that up on my local system! Maybe one day if cloud only becomes a lot better, but even then feels like a downgrade.

0xCMP 3 years ago |

I used to be a die-hard iPad-for-coding user, but with the advent of the M1 MBAs I couldn't justify it anymore.

The thing that broke me was that if I wanted a remote development env (because at the end of the day you can't do development on an iPad without some remote computer running stuff for you) at the time you needed to a) provision on via safari manually b) have some kind of script or something on the iPad capable of doing that for you c) have a cheap/low-power computer always running to run the scripts. [This is assuming you don't have a remote computer already you can turn on. E.g. "only iPad + on-demand cloud resources"]

I eventually concluded the M1 MBA is a better option because of how heavy an iPad Pro 12" + Magic KB Case is in comparison.

I still *love* my iPad Pro. The screen is almost a good enough reason to use it. Also it had LTE which was very useful.

I still think it's possible to make the iPad do everything I wanted the M1 MBA to do without significantly changing how Apps are developed or restrictions on iPadOS (and apps like ShellFish, WorkingCopy, and Blink Shell are really my go-to examples of how that could have existed all this time), but while possible today it's just much higher friction and cost to use an iPad to do the same thing an entry-level M1 MBA could do.

powersurge360 3 years ago | |

Is this using an iPad for coding or is this using an iPad as a dumb terminal and using something else for development?

At the end of the day, that’s what makes an iPad unappealing for me as a development machine. If I am going to pay for an iPad and then rent an affordable VPS just to dev on then why not just buy a computer I can develop on locally right away? Sure, LTE is cool but it probably is more cost effective to go the other way and pay for a hotspot plan for your phone and tether your computer that way.

That being said, I do occasionally feel cool doing dev on my laptop remotely from my iPad using a combination of tailscale, tethering from my phone and using iSH to ssh into an emacs session.

gorkish 3 years ago |

It's still pathetic they won't let you run OS X on it.

Toutouxc 3 years ago | |

Just FYI, it's been called "macOS" for the last eight years. The last OS X was El Capitan.

orangecat 3 years ago | |

From Apple's perspective, macOS is a legacy product with the undesirable ability to run software of your choice without giving them a cut.

jdlyga 3 years ago |

"Hover" with the Apple Pencil is something that my Tablet PC in 2003 could do. Still, I'm very glad that tablets in 2022 finally have this feature.

jonas-w 3 years ago | |

Wait you couldn't hover over the ipad and it didn't show you a pointer? The galaxy tablets had this since a few generations, why didn't apple do this earlier?

twobitshifter 3 years ago | | |

it seems to be an m2 feature only

crims0n 3 years ago |

Interesting, if only incremental update. The hardware far outpacing the software continues.

hatware 3 years ago |

I bought an iPad Pro (M1) about a month ago. I'm glad I didn't wait, most of these upgrades are superficial or would not be noticed by me.

reustle 3 years ago |

Has there been any recent discussions as to why Apple still hasn't introduced cellular connectivity on their laptops? Is it yet another attempt to get people to convert over to the walled garden of iOS? With every ipadOS iteration, they push it to be closer and closer to a desktop experience (windows, monitor support, keyboard trackpad cover, etc).

jshier 3 years ago | |

As sibling alluded to, they don't want to pay the per device royalty percentage, especially on high price devices like a MacBook Pro.

kylehotchkiss 3 years ago | |

Maybe once the apple designed 5g chips are ready. Maybe they’ll be a little more battery friendly. And apple will either have to negotiate something worthwhile with carriers or start their own mobile network to keep the data prices reasonable. None of the current carriers offer data plans suitable for full time laptop use.

etchalon 3 years ago | |

I'd wager it's a Qualcomm negotiation thing.

smoldesu 3 years ago | |

Modern WWAN might be a bit of a nightmare. I'm not super familiar with recent efforts in the space, but if Apple wanted to knock this out of the park, they'd need two things:

- Unlimited data plans, preferably at a non-insane price (sub $50-month would be nice)

- Both 4G LTE and 5G connectivity. Not just one or the other.

Both of these seem technically possible, but I'd assume they'd be incredibly difficult to pull-off from a business negotiation perspective.

ripdog 3 years ago | | |

Why does Apple need to provide the plan as well? I mean, given Apple's controlling nature, they may well wish to - but most laptops with mobile internet simply provide a SIM slot hooked up to a standard mobile baseband. Customers find their own plan, and many carriers offer plans which are tablet-oriented, with no calls/texts and sharing the data from a 'master' mobile plan.

helf 3 years ago |

I had an iPad for a long while way back. I bought the Retina one initially.

It was nice for what it was.

I just can’t get excited about anything iOS as unless you have REALLY bought into the “ecosystem” it’s a clusterfuck.

- File management is still a sick joke.

- unless they’ve really changed something that I’m unaware of (which I’ll admit is entirely possible) with “iPadOS” vs regular iOS, multitasking is still a pathetic joke. The state saving and pausing which relegates the devices to essentially fancy task switching and not real preemptive multitasking (other than extremely specific program scenarios and services functionality) which drives me insane. Why the hell does my SSH client have to constantly ping my location to get around the “you can run 13 seconds in the background before the OS forcefully state pauses you”? Why the fuck can’t apple give a nice little “this app can run run run till it’s little heart bursts in the background!” Toggle switch you can control?

People go on and on about iPhone battery life and… there’s a reason for that.

- The ridiculous sandboxing between programs that’s supposedly a security feature but just makes for an insufferably inconsistent UI and terrible management of data between programs … I guess that goes with my file management complaint.

I dunno. I just can’t abide a complete blackbox lockdown of my devices to the point of them being literal appliances. But apparently I’m in the minority there.

Also, most people appear to just be perfectly happy rapidly task switching. And having only most of their programs paused when switched from works fine for them I guess.

I will say for /consumption/ of say documents like PDFs and Comics, the iPad is fantastic. But outside of that basic usage they drive me insane.

Sorry for the meandering rant. I’m waiting for food with my 8yo and bored lol

turndown 3 years ago |

Have an M1 iPad Pro 12.9 inch with the Magic Keyboard and Pencil. Obviously won’t be upgrading any time soon(like 4-5 years minimum) and pray Apple understands that users want significantly improved OS software out of the box. Everything I’ve seen marks this as a disappointing software update, especially Stage Manager.

candiddevmike 3 years ago |

Anyone use an iPad as their daily driver?

elzbardico 3 years ago |

You need to really need to a use touchscreen and/or a pen to justify such an extravagance.

tshaddox 3 years ago | |

Or you just prefer the form factor overall to a similarly-priced MacBook. I much prefer my 12.9" iPad Pro (I have a 2nd generation one, from way back in 2017) over a comparable MacBook Air. This new iPad Pro is a tempting upgrade for me, although my 2017 device is still working fine which does make the expense difficult to justify.

nkristoffersen 3 years ago |

Best feature not really mentioned is Sidecar! Having a second high quality screen has been a game changer. So portable and so powerful. I will be upgrading my 2018 12.9 iPad Pro to the latest. Mostly for the better screen to match my M1 Max.

rektide 3 years ago |

Thunderbolt!!

As usual I'm envious of this hardware, & wish the rest of us who aren't ok in Apple's tight walled garden had options half as good.

The M2 is a great chip. Yeah, sure, way better than anything else & ridiculously great for a tablet: yes. The display is amazing, as usual. What is new & exciting to me here is Thunderbolt. For so long, "mobile" devices have not had any of the perks of modern computing when it comes to connectivity. Being able to connect to other devices via a modern high speed cable is a kick ass feature that enables all kinds of advanced uses.

With things like Steam Deck, I'm hoping we see a little less strict siloing & see mobile devices start to get competitive in interesting ways. It's a fantastic device: for $400 it blows almost every phone out of the water in almost every conceivable way, wipes the floor & makes mock of what we get. We should have higher expectations, see more cross-market products, but we've been locked into very tight market segments for a long time. One other category busting device I'd cite- really interesting- is the Lenovo Legion Phone, an ultra-serious gaming phone from 2021, which has dual batteries, cooling fans, a 144Hz OLED screen & tip top specs, but most genre-busting of all: a phone with two USB-C ports. Do it. Make your phone a connectable device! Go next level!

I'd love to see a betting pool on what quarter we first see a phone with USB4. Anyone here wanna bet on anytime in 2023? Personally I still think anytime in 2024 is only like 60/40 odds yes. There's little impetus to try, to do better, to make, even though it's so near. Even though the chipspace is tiny. Even though the IP isn't that costly. There's no perceived market, and that belief keeps the market for advancement from occurring.

I love thunderbolt here. The irony is that Apple is one of the most closed ecosystems with the least potential by far to make use of the wide range of nearly-anythings someone could plug in via thunderbolt. Ideally Steam Decks and phones should all be able to make fine use of eGPUs, NICs/infiniband/whatever adapters. They should all support CXL too, but we'll see this, like all the other good stuff, segmented off to servers for 5 years, then desktops for 5 years, before finally it becomes clear & obvious consumers would have great benefit & that it's simpler, more powerful, more flexible to use the good high power specs for these mobile consumer devices too, & we've been shorting ourselves this whole time for no real good reason.

faeriechangling 3 years ago |

Pretty boring announcement, biggest things is that Apple finally has stock of Broadcom 6E radios so you can expect those going forwards, and that ad expected Apple couldn’t manage to get over 600nits on their small screen device.

user3939382 3 years ago |

I like how it says

> Wi‑Fi 6E and 5G

So 10Gb and then as an example directly under it shows a news article with a couple small images in it lol. Personally what I'm really waiting for is 40 Gb to load my news articles.

at_a_remove 3 years ago |

I was told to expect wireless charging for these. I was excited about this, because my mother has an irrational "thing" about wires, and an uncharged iPad is a useless iPad.

nomel 3 years ago | |

There are many lightning charge docks [1]. Maybe something like that could work, if securely mounted to the back of a table, to hide the hanging wire.

Wireless charging pads also have cables. Do you hide them in table surfaces?

1. Random example: https://www.belkin.com/th/chargers/wireless/charging-stands-...

at_a_remove 3 years ago | | |

Yeah, this is what I think I will have to go with, much as I dislike it.

runjake 3 years ago |

Lots of iPad hate in the comments. But remember, if nobody wanted them, they wouldn't keep selling as well as they are.

If you have no interest in an iPad, don't buy one. For me, it's not going to replace my general purpose computers any time soon, but its great for reading or carrying around while on the go for short bursts of work (SSH/Mosh with Blink app, RDP with Microsoft Remote Desktop, VNC with Screens, etc).

xfalcox 3 years ago |

I would love a way to enable Safari DevTools on this device so I could use it to debug iOS specific quirks instead of needing an Apple laptop.

candiddevmike 3 years ago | |

Get a Mac Mini, stick it in a closet and VNC into it, that's what I do.

duxup 3 years ago | | |

Yeah I would think a Mini would be a better use case than a whole laptop.

xfalcox 3 years ago | | |

Then you emulate iOS on it to debug iOS Safari? Is it fast enough?

agrippanux 3 years ago | |

If you are needing it for web dev, the Inspect browser on iOS works great for that purpose. It is annoying you have to pay $10 for something that should be built in.

liminalsunset 3 years ago | | |

There is also one called literally "Web Inspector" from "And a Dinosaur" or something which I believe is free and a Safari extension which pops up devtools on my iPhone

xfalcox 3 years ago | | |

Is that a paid extension?

mensetmanusman 3 years ago |

Question from a gen 1 iPad Pro user (first USB-C iPad):

Is the usb>hdmi output still a disaster?

I noticed a huge downgrade in compatibility from my previous ipads doing presentations with the lightning port.

I even diagnosed an issue where the iPad pro would not output to HDMI using Apple’s official dongle if the HDMI cable was longer than 25 ft. Ha (iphone/lightning adapter worked fine in the same setup).

boppo1 3 years ago |

Illustrator here. Very frustrating that hover cursor is new-device only. Here I was hoping for an apple pencil V3. I figured it would be a $200 upgrade, not sell-current-device + $1200. I've got a top of the line 2020 (all specs max) and it seems to have lost about half of its value going by ebay prices.

adrusi 3 years ago |

With iPhone video hardware, ProRes support, and a thunderbolt interface that makes 4k ProRes actually practical to get off the device, the iPad Pro is now likely to be the best video recording device for certain creative niches. You can even edit the video on the same device that captured it in a pinch.

bovermyer 3 years ago |

So... what's the use case for this, versus say an XP Pen or Wacom graphics tablet and a Macbook?

The more portable nature?

barbariangrunge 3 years ago |

I remember I used to read a lot on my tablet before I started using anki to take notes as I went. I miss it, the screens and then light weight are very easy on the eyes and hands. Reading on a laptop isn’t nearly as nice, but you can’t beat the keyboard

fmajid 3 years ago |

It has IEEE 802.11ax WiFi6E, first Apple device with it, apparently. Even the M2 MacBook Air and the Mac Studio don't have it.

Edit: only dual-band. no 6GHz? WTF, Apple? Definitely skipping this generation, then.

balderdash 3 years ago |

If you only use communication tools, web based apps, Word, and only need to be able to open/tweak an excel or PowerPoint doc, then yeah they’re awesome, anything more and you need a laptop.

lbotos 3 years ago |

Anyone have iPad Pro screen protector recommendations? Looking to get one of these and worried about screens getting "softer glass" and would rather have a sacrificial layer on top.

jessriedel 3 years ago | |

I wanted the "paper feel", which gives the screen a bit of roughness so it feels like writing on paper rather than glass. I went with this brand on Amazon and have been very happy with it:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N362JCW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...

I bought it 18 months ago and still haven't needed to replace it. I can clean it as easily as the bare screen.

These types of layers add a very tiny amount of color distortion, so I guess not recommended if you do professional graphics work on the thing.

kylehotchkiss 3 years ago | |

Best Buy does lifetime warranties on some of the screen protectors they sell. I have them on my phone. They’re not mind blowing but they have changed them for free for me no questions asked before.

hayst4ck 3 years ago | |

I've generally been pretty happy with JETech's screen protectors, not happy with where they come from, not happy they appear to be a random amazon no-name brand, but I've been pretty loyal to them and when I've deviated, mostly to protectors bought in person, I've noticed a drop in quality.

lifeinthevoid 3 years ago |

How large a piece of the chip is that 16 core Neural Engine eating? I'd rather have a more powerful CPU + GPU or am I missing the point a bit? Anyone care to shed some light?

intrasight 3 years ago |

Imaging what a great product we would have if Apple ditched the Mac and put all that hardware and software effort towards a unified touchscreen convertible tablet.

seydor 3 years ago |

meta invests in vr goggles, apple invests in high definition. none of them invests to replace the keyboard with someting better , not worse. Computers are not useful without communication, and the slow human-computer bandwidth is the real bottleneck for these devices. Keyboards (and mice) are still better after 4 decades . Meta's wrist device might be the revolution we need

thepasswordis 3 years ago |

It is hilarious to me that apple keeps adding accessories to the iPad to make it look more and more like a laptop.

The iPad is a very bad laptop, but is a great tablet.

mnholt 3 years ago |

No horizontal camera is a dealbreaker for me at this point. I know it’s minor, but that would truly let me leave the laptop/desktop at home.

nomel 3 years ago | |

With the number of cameras on an iPhone, I'm surprised they don't just add a second.

vbezhenar 3 years ago |

Is it possible to use iPad with Safari and VSCode? I'm thinking about something like GitHub Codespaces. Like development in browser.

brikwerk 3 years ago | |

Code server might be what you're looking for: https://github.com/coder/code-server

The caveat with the above is that you'll need something to host it. You could use a computer on your local network or a VPS of some kind (DigitalOcean, Linode, etc all have cheaper plans for hosting).

Once you get Code Server running, you can add the URL to your homepage to remove the Safari URL bar.

kylehotchkiss 3 years ago | |

Try GitHub.dev on your iPad now. Totally possible. You can save a link to it on your Home Screen. It’s not a full time workspace but a decent backup option if on the go.

vbezhenar 3 years ago | | |

I don't really own good iPad unfortunately, just trying to understand its capabilities.

Can I attach proper 4K display with keyboard and mouse if necessary? Will it work like desktop (when it comes to browser)?

While I don't really think that iPad is a good replacement for Macbook Air, that's an interesting option at least.

focom 3 years ago |

Isn't stage mode the main star of the show? It looks like the first baby step to have an actual desktop environment on the ipad.

drcongo 3 years ago |

Would have bought it if it had a headphone jack. As it is, there's nothing here to get excited about over my M1 Pro.

hayst4ck 3 years ago | |

I was pretty skeptical of AirPods. Now I could never go back.

drcongo 3 years ago | | |

I use my iPad for making music, the latency on AirPods or any other BT headphones makes them a non-starter. It makes me actually angry that they removed the jack from the iPad "pro", killing one of the very few actual pro uses for an iPad.

smm11 3 years ago |

Still digging my Galaxy S21 being a desktop experience over an HDMI cable.

But I'm probably switching to a Samsung phone that folds.

ChildOfChaos 3 years ago | |

I'd love to see this explored more, it seems we have such power in our pockets, all we really need is devices to attach this too rather than more devices with the same cpu/memory and gpu's.

Particularly when you look at Apple devices, if you own multiple apple devices you have several devices with A or M series CPU and GPU's.

nomilk 3 years ago |

Any signs of a new MacBook Pro 16" with this announcement (or any indication of when we may hear something)?

carlosbaraza 3 years ago | |

Apparently M2 Pro will launch in November, not October https://www.tomsguide.com/news/new-macbook-pros-with-m2-pro-...

petarb 3 years ago |

The stage mode looks like an interesting attempt for desktop like productivity with an external monitor.

otikik 3 years ago |

> delivering the ultimate combination of portability, versatility, and unbelievable performance

Not with that OS

mensetmanusman 3 years ago |

I want to try the M2 on the iPad for stable diffusion photo editing.

Who will make that app first?

rowanG077 3 years ago |

Is it possible to run virtualized linux on these and have all hardware stuff working?

asadlionpk 3 years ago | |

Not yet. best so far is UTM.

bullen 3 years ago | | |

But does UTM support OpenGL powered by the M2 GPU?!

And off topic but what about connecting a mouse to this thing?

And what about compiling apps on it!?

What about running OpenGL on non emulated linux on this?

I know the GPU is being worked on but do the old OpenGL parts work allready or is that part of the reverse engineering?

I wish you could change batteries yourself... hopefully they have moved towards that: 3/10 on the old one: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad+Pro+11-Inch+Teardown/11...

r2sk5t 3 years ago |

Dear Apple, Does the new iPad case have a place to store the pencil when traveling?

CharlesW 3 years ago | |

Apple will not make a case with Pencil storage, but Apple sells multiple third-party cases which do (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HPKU2ZM/A/stm-dux-plus-fo...), and you can find hundreds of vendors which will sell you one.

gumby 3 years ago | |

What I found best is a strap with a narrow pouch sewn into it.

akmarinov 3 years ago |

First time for Wi-Fi 6E on Apple hardware. Expecting that in the new MBPs as well

xd1936 3 years ago |

Still no "Liquid Retina XDR" display on the $800+ 11" iPad Pro :(

nomel 3 years ago | |

It, as with the last gen iPad Pro, does have Liquid Retina XDR:

Last gen: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212527

This gen, right on the product page: https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/

faeriechangling 3 years ago | | |

The first page isn’t for the 11” model, and the second page claims it has a “Liquid Retina” screen capped at 600nits not a “Liquid Retina XDR” screen.

sdze 3 years ago |

Still no torrent app possible = no buy.

Hopefully the EU breaks Apples‘ App Store Monopoly.

jmull 3 years ago |

It's nice they keep working on making iPadOS more useable. But it seems like a waste of time to me.

Just let iPads run MacOS already.

(or put the nice touch screen on MacBooks, same difference)

If it's too awkward to use macOS without a keyboard and pointing device then, sure, maybe MacOS mode isn't the default.

neilalexander 3 years ago | |

Try using Sidecar for any substantial amount of time and you’ll realise just how awkward macOS is without a keyboard and pointing device.

jmull 3 years ago | | |

It's not like the iPad Pro doesn't have nice keyboard and pointing device options.

I remote into MacOS and Windows machines from my iPad (12.9" iPad + Apple's keyboard/trackpad case + Jump) and it works well.

stevefan1999 3 years ago |

Desktop app and I still see no Logic Pro X on the go. Disappointing

hartator 3 years ago |

Can this actually replace a MacBook for a backend engineer workflow?

kylehotchkiss 3 years ago | |

github.dev works fine on an iPad - you could integrate with their new codespaces service to run dev servers for web projects. So it easy available fancy remote terminal. If you’re traveling with just your iPad, this is a nice secure option where you don’t need to have clones of repos locally or any keys saved locally to your device.

crims0n 3 years ago | |

No - but it's closer than ever, yet still probably years away.

wslh 3 years ago |

How long does the battery last? Comparing to the MacBook Air?

mnholt 3 years ago | |

From the tech specs: Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi or watching video. 9 hours if using Cellular data.

spullara 3 years ago | | |

which in comparison is about half of an air or pro.

simonebrunozzi 3 years ago |

I was waiting for a Macbook Pro M2 2022 announcement... :(

null_object 3 years ago |

Pretty much everyone here knocking the iPad Pros for being consumption-only passive entertainment devices.

But I guess the artists, musicians, video-editors and photographers using them professionally would disagree, if they ever came here.

dagmx 3 years ago | |

It’s a big issue with the audience of this site being too hyper focused on software development.

You can see it taken one step further in threads about GitHub Copilot getting torn to bits but the threads on Stable Diffusion getting lauded as the end of artists.

It’s the double standards that come up when people fixate only on what they know well themselves.

bovermyer 3 years ago | | |

Yeah... I like Copilot for helping me with specific coding/data entry tasks, and I like Stable Diffusion for helping with my art workflow (I'm also an artist). I tend to keep quiet about such opinions on here, though, because I know I'll get downvoted into oblivion for heresy.

raxxorraxor 3 years ago | | |

My criticism of Apple is that it is a closed environment and you get dependent on one manufacturer that is already using its position to demand high prices and doesn't really make you the owner of their devices. This conflicts with engineering in general all over the place for numerous reasons.

Industry automation relies on Windows, which isn't optimal as well, but it still is a far more open system. I hope they don't try to copy Apple. In-house advertising uses Apple for designs and that works decently well. Apple is seen as cool, but it is sometimes hard to integrate them into workflows or more serious work on data.

iOS and it derivatives are simply a toy OS and very unflexible. There is one solution to almost everything and in most cases it works. But that is more or less the end.

yamtaddle 3 years ago | |

> Pretty much everyone here knocking the iPad Pros for being consumption-only passive entertainment devices.

Yeah, this criticism has never made sense to me. I think it could only come from people for whom the only purpose of computers is to make software, not to get out and... you know, do things with the software, in the actual world. I-devices excel at that. They are excellent computers as tools for doing things that aren't focused on locally testing docker containers or whatever we all do in our day jobs that require less-portable and kinda-dumber (their "view of the world", if you will, is much more limited) desktops and laptops.

srvmshr 3 years ago | |

I use the LiDAR of the iPad Pro to capture full schematic of room in 3D to prepare spatial datasets.

It isn't perfect. The sampling rate of iPad Pro is still lower than professional 3D cameras, but I can't complain when they cost a fraction of the latter. 3DScanner and similar apps do a great job at stitching the volumetric data on the fly & rendering on iPad itself (before I transfer).

We use these data to do some inference via 3D computer vision projects for clients

adrr 3 years ago | |

Do creative types use Ipad Pros? The IPadOS file system is less than optimal. Adobe apps are the real thing and missing features.

My company has a full video team, and photo team. No one has asked for an IPad Pro. They do have proXDR screens and some beefy macs. Only execs have them for a high end zoom boxes especially if they have a windows laptop that have poor mics and cameras. Center stage feature is really nice.

musictubes 3 years ago | | |

Are there any creatives that don’t work in industry? Video teams that use Mac Pros and Pro Display XDR wouldn’t even be able to use a MacBook Pro does that mean the MacBook Pro can’t be used by creatives?

So yes, creatives use the iPads. It is the main driver for more performance on an ipad. Drawing, audio performance, photo editing, hell, they are great second displays for MacBooks.

theshrike79 3 years ago | | |

Now ask the full video team to spend 30 weeks of a year travelling around the world, producing video on locations.

I bet you they won't want to lug around the proXDR screens and beefy macs at that point.

EugeneOZ 3 years ago | |

And kids. My daughter is using her iPad extensively, and not only for games - she is drawing a lot, and her current CPU is already pushing the limits in some sophisticated drawing apps.

FearlessNebula 3 years ago | |

The thing is, is the iPad really the best device at the price point for these people? Artist seems like the only one.

- for a musician, surely the full featured desktop software is better? And for $800 you can get a pretty good laptop - video editors must also prefer a desktop OS. They can use keyboard hot keys, industry standard software, and get better GPU hardware - photographers might do pretty well with an iPad Pro but again I think they’d probably still be best with desktop class photoshop - a casual artist I will contend probably does best with an iPad Pro. But if they start doing really serious professional work, they will again probably want the full desktop software and an expensive Wacom hardware to go alongside

So at both casual and professional levels, the iPad Pro really only makes sense for a casual illustrator from what I can see.

jessriedel 3 years ago | |

I use it everyday for handwritten math. Unfortunately, the software is meager compared to the hardware.

BudaDude 3 years ago | |

I am a hobbyist video editor and I am excited for this iPad. I never thought I would see Davinci Resolve come to it. Especially before Final Cut.

hbn 3 years ago | |

I'll give you that artists use them for drawing.

But professional musicians, video editors, and photographers? All the software for doing any of those things is kneecapped versions of Mac apps. If they use an iPad at all it's as some kind of supplementary tool for the real machine the work gets done on.

mixmastamyk 3 years ago | |

It's very frustrating that you can't even do simple operations on files that were standard on the '84 Macintosh. I'm not talking about rocket-science or a git-based build system.

I had high hopes for the Files app when it debuted, and was very disappointed.

boppo1 3 years ago | |

> But I guess the artists, musicians, video-editors and photographers using them professionally would disagree, if they ever came here.

I do. But be glad we generally don't, it would probably lower the quality of discussion.

jbverschoor 3 years ago |

Still no NFC?

h4waii 3 years ago | |

This isn't surprising, but it's unfortunate -- Apple still hasn't even opened up CoreNFC on the Watch.

I have a custom app for my business which uses NFC, and it's a bummer that iPads, and just about no modern Android tablets have NFC, so while I'd love to use a tablet to do certain tasks, I can't.

kylehotchkiss 3 years ago | |

What’s your use case? I’m imagining people holding a 12in iPad by a door keypad or Apple Pay terminal fumbling around trying to find where the sensor is (I’m not being very creative with this I realize)

raxxorraxor 3 years ago | | |

Our coffee machine isn't free anymore because of extensive usage, but we can pay with any NFC ID we register. My primary use case for an iPad is as a coffee coaster too, perfect synergy.

Veliladon 3 years ago |

Still can't believe the M2 chip is hobbled with Stage Manager.

Dear Apple,

I want my iPad to become a Finder based full-fat macOS when it's on the Magic Keyboard and I want it to be Springboard when I take it off the Magic Keyboard.

Make it happen already.

chernofool 3 years ago |

Too bad that Apple works so hard to strangle 3rd-party software in the cradle.

A device like this would be fantastic with a full desktop environment. Many desktop apps have solid touchscreen support now, ChromeOS has demonstrated that mobile apps can be run seamlessly in a desktop window manager, and you could easily dock it to use with bluetooth mouse/keyboard.

Alas, we've got to put up with a hi-res smartphone OS because that is Apple's vision for this product line.

lma21 3 years ago |

The iPad Pro is one of the expensive products that I never regret paying 800$ for. Incredible speed, smooth UX, long lasting battery, really doesn't even come close to the previous (Intel-powered) iPads.

spullara 3 years ago | |

There have never been Intel based iPads.

carlob 3 years ago | |

Intel based iPads?

skyyler 3 years ago | | |

With context I think it's pretty clear that they meant tablet.

My thinkpad tablets are thick, hot, and the battery lasts around 3 hours of light use.