Ask HN: Is everyone on Hacker News super charismatic? I see the ideas on here, and the complexity of the arguments present, and I think "Holy shit" everyone on here is probably a great conversationalist and insanely emotionally smart. I know the trope of programmers being low IQ, but this just seems wrong. |
And all it takes is finding one counter example.
For me it all was just plain boring, but I still appreciate the effect she had on the whole group (except me) listening to her so vividly.
Unfortunately the world is filled with people who lay on others the responsibility to "explain complex things in a simple way" or else be labelled bad communicators. Those are mostly people whose minds can't handle complexity and who are engaging in cognitive dissonance reduction. They don't like to think of themselves as dumb, so they'd rather think of their opposites as bad communicators.
But there is no such thing as a "complex thing explained simply". There are only the kinds of explanations that H. L. Mencken speaks of when he says:
"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." [1]
every other place on the internet (and IRL), I have to 'translate' my thoughts from purely logical to something that speaks to the greater audience, which is usually less technical and more specialized in... well their own specializations. a translation could never capture the nuance of the original statement, and people writing for tech audiences probably feel a similar handicap.
i bet a politico would find most/all of our raw content insufferable :)
But I do appreciate the generally more "adult" tone to HN.
Reddit is fun n all but sometimes I dont want to be made to laugh/scoff/get angry.
Agenda-supportive, virtue-signalling, hype-bandwagoning, karma-worshipping, high-horse-scornful, cowardly-downvoting, way too many.
Snowflake-fragile, even more.
The word “made up” is doing a lot of work there. Do you mean like a butterfly wing makes up the world around you or central banking?
One of these is not so much “complex” as it is mysterious, alluring, captivating, and we have no explanation for it, complex or otherwise.
The other is exactly like the giant labyrinth constructed around a lie. Complex for its own protection - synthethic complexity that you can skip if you know the shortcut to the heart of the maze.
I agree that some complexities in the area of culture like law, religion, political institutions etc. are self-referential and ultimately serve no purpose or are even counterproductive relative to their presumed purpose.
The important thing is that I wouldn't attach a negative value-judgment to complexity, like saying complexity is always evil or bad or serves nefarious purposes. It is precisely the unwillingness to engage with complexity that perpetuates it.
I would and I do.
> It is precisely the unwillingness to engage with complexity that perpetuates it.
No. It is the chimpout, the excessive disproportionate and cruel response of labyrinth-makers against those who dare to cut to the heart of the maze, that perpetuates the artificial complexity through intimidation.
They would LOVE for you to “engage with complexity” - that means walking into the labyrinth of their construction, a turf they fully control. Nothing gives them more joy than seeing you squirm around the maze, wasting away trying to “understand” Modern Monetary Theory or why The Court upheld starre decisis here but created a new precedent there, like these things are emergent properties of nature like butterfly wings.
And then I speculate there is a high percentage of people here of at least minnium tertiary education (or equivalent), and furthermore people who are engaged and relentlessly self-educate. That's a literate bunch of people with strong skills in generating and critiquing ideas and philosophies in an arena where there is more "signal" and less "noise".
It'd be interesting to see the demographic breakdown of HN actually.
And there is a no-duplicate culture: If I have a point that I want to make, and someone always expressed it in a comment, I just upvote.
20% of my comments are discarded with the interrupt handler in my brain going “Wait, is someone wrong on the internet?” Hitting Ctrl+W just discards the message. It’s a feature for letting go.
Nah they're all in their tracksuit pants.
We can also edit here. That makes a huge difference. Can't do that live or in person.
For very high levels of in-person charisma think Steve Jobs. His ability to convince people was called a "reality distortion field", it diminished once he left the room .. but he'd already got you to commit to building the impossible.
(Since I have 80k HN karma, and 80k karma plus eight dollars buys you a cup of coffee, I've been thinking of doing a data-driven "how to get upvoted on HN" thing. But I'd have to finish writing my scraper.)
Looking down at the plebs walking in the streets, articulating the best way to sell them all on Rust?
No? It's just me then.
Just kidding. Rust is too good for the common man. *sips*
And in that regard, I think there's a lot to be said for the medium here. There are certainly clever and highly technical people lurking around, but the ability to articulate your thoughts before posting anything is extremely helpful in conveying a clear, well put message. You have the time to really think about what you're saying.
However, this does not immediately translate to interpersonal abilities - charisma included. Talking in meetings, arguing in real time, and most of all being in a leadership position, those are totally different skills. If you're already there, though, it is easier to sound confident, and lots of people around here are at least somewhat experienced in the tech world.
On a more serious note I think people on HN tend to be way more pedantic than anyone I would want to spend time with in real life.
Agreed. Personally, I tend to be far more detail focused on discussions here than on Reddit, my work Slack or in real life, and it definitely crosses over the line into pedantry sometimes. I'm nowhere _near_ as pedantic in person.
Joking aside, I do think it’s a bit to be expected in an anonymous forum. It’s quite at a tolerable level here, even if it’s not what I’d look for in my irl friends.
In real life, people tend not to tolerate either.
Written comments are very different from verbal communication which is different from charisma. So no, they definitely aren't all charismatic, far from it probably.
Also, "trope of programmers being low IQ"?
There is certainly a stereotype (reinforced by the media of course) of programmers being awkward, geeky, poor communicators to non-experts, emotionally a bit “weird”, etc
As OP is talking about charisma this is what I assume they meant anyway. I could wrong so hopefully OP can clarify.
Since outrage drives clicks websites are incentivized to turn into the jerry springer show. HN is not ad supported and the focus is mostly on technical subjects, too boring for the riff raf with underdeveloped emotional control.
Relative to this sad state of affairs we shine, I suppose. You could do a lot better just maybe not on the internet. If you want to see how this community is not immune to turning into a zoo look at any thread where anything remotely political crops up.
Compare and contrast with old timey talk shows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_PUUHLknDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz7tiBZdGvE
Deeming the awkward nerds here as 'super charismatic' really just shows how far we have fallen as a society. People used to be a lot more civil and eloquent. Some still are just not in any public sphere.
I don't particularly enjoy discussing certain topics that bring out some of the worst comments. This is usually contentious topics in the US like labour unions, mental health, LGBT rights.
Sometimes you get really nice replies, sometimes it will be absolutely insufferable braindead asshole takes. Sometimes the comments get soft-raided by people who only rarely actually post but are conspicuously invested in defending something (I noticed this happen a lot with posts discussing one website in particular that I'll leave unnamed). At least moderators eventually clean up the last kind.
For lower quality HN discussions check threads about cryptocurrency or many about Europe. Oh and enable showdead to see even deeper depths.
You have to have a lot of charisma to play being an asshole for laughs and credit, and that only works in-person and not on the internet.
But there's certainly lots of smart people here.
I think the observation is right though that people who can express themselves well are often perceived as charismatic. It's not necessarily a good thing though. Plenty of people stutter or are a little bit disorganized but still have important things to say. Just because someone has difficulty communicating doesn't mean they're not smart, emotionally or otherwise.
Definitely not me.
Put me in a room with other ideas focused people and I have a great time. Mostly that is not the case :)
As others have pointed out, the voting system means you only see the best of the comments. And even then when HN strays "off topic" (i.e. away from science and tech) the commentary is far less on point.
And don't get me started on the "middle-brow dismissal"...
Regarding charismatic , i am quite blunt in verbal communication , ok at written.
0, This is another topic for sure but a lot of people make here top 5% money (nationwide and probably even higher global) which doesn't make you middle class