Ask HN: Getting back to the hiring scene post-hiatus (& all the tech layoffs)?

16 points by rabbits_unite 3 years ago | 15 comments

3 years ago I quit my job at a big tech company in order to attend to a family issue. And after that and with the pandemic, I realized I needed some time away from work to try and catch up to my life as a person, as I used to work a lot, and use some of my savings early.

I was hoping to get back to working later this year or early next year, but the news looks more and more grim by the day, with all those tech layoffs in the tens of thousands, and the warnings of recession.

I worked as an IC lead for many years, as well as a technical manager. And I mostly specialized in backend algorithmic and machine learning systems.

I kept myself sharp in some areas, but I'm also realistic that someone who has been away for that long is not a desirable resume.

I'm looking for some observations, big and small, on where the tech community is at right now, what are the top required skillsets now, what's different in the hiring processes today, and any relevant personal experiences from anyone who left the field for a few years and succeeded in coming back.

Example of a "small observation": back in the time when I last interviewed for a job, we used to do a phone screen first. But it appears that nowadays everyone wants to get you on a video call instead.

gregjor 3 years ago |

Having done the hiatus thing myself my advice: talk to everyone you used to work with or know from previous jobs. Renew your professional contacts and follow up with any referrals or leads you get. Finding jobs through contacts and colleagues will almost always turn up more solid leads than filling out applications online or digging through job boards.

Contracting/freelancing can work too, but you still have to find the work. Those budgets got crunched too. Referrals and word of mouth work best for finding freelance work, too. You might want to look into agencies and contract shops (disclaimer: 10X Management represents me as a freelancer).

lostgame 3 years ago |

I think FAANG companies are laying off employees because frankly they are idiots for growing to the unnecessary size of folks they had hired to start.

The bank I work up here as a dev in Canada is looking to grow it’s team and I get half a dozen emails from recruiters a day.

Don’t be afraid of the layoffs. These companies need to be taken down a notch.

nvarsj 3 years ago |

I think the main change happening now is tech salaries are going to be coming down. There is intense pressure from investors on big tech to lower expenses - and a lot of that is what investors think are overpaid engineers. Rate of operating expenses has increased far faster than revenues.

So, hiring is frozen, layoffs will be happening and PIP quotas are increasing (e.g. GRAD at Google). Top end demand is shrinking and that will push compensation down industry wide.

I think you are fine as long as your expectations are tempered. There are still plenty of places hiring without big tech salaries.

b20000 3 years ago | |

so is the cost of living in california coming down then?

nvarsj 3 years ago | | |

Good question... I think there will be less demand for the high house prices/rent. But there are a lot of other factors, like high inflation.

gigatexal 3 years ago |

That explanation for why there’s a gap in your work history is good enough for me. I’d move on to a coding challenge or two and give you an offer after that.

I do interviews at the place I work at for what it’s worth.

1attice 3 years ago |

Something similar happened to me many years ago.

I advise starting with contract work (which is often much easier to get,) and use that to re-establish a recent work history.

Projects on Github are great as well.

rabbits_unite 3 years ago | |

What is the most important thing to know about contract work, for someone who had only done full-time employment jobs before?

E.g. Do you need to be an some online platform to get projects? How do you protect yourself from financial abuse (someone not paying you)? Do you need a lawyer at all times? Should you create a legal entity of some sort so you're a "company" and use that instead of getting projects as an individual?

gregjor 3 years ago | | |

> Do you need to be an some online platform to get projects?

No. You need to either find work on your own or have a pipeline. Word of mouth and referrals work best. Start with former employers and colleagues. Companies in related businesses can outsource to you -- web design and marketing firms usually outsource programming and even system admin, for example.

Alternately you can work through an agency (10X Management represents me as a freelancer), or a contract shop such as TopTal.

> How do you protect yourself from financial abuse (someone not paying you)?

Work for people you trust, walk away from customers who give you a bad feeling. Don't work on spec, don't discount. Don't put yourself in the position of your customer owing you a lot of money. Agree on clear deliverables and prices. Contracts will not protect you.

> Do you need a lawyer at all times?

No. You should never need a lawyer unless you need to negotiate a tricky NDA or contract. Once you have lawyers involved your billable hours go down and you end up paying the lawyers. In most US states breach of contract and similar disputes go to arbitration anyway, a process that can take a long time and more often than not ends up with both sides splitting the difference and losing money in the process.

> Should you create a legal entity of some sort so you're a "company" and use that instead of getting projects as an individual?

You can if you want, but unless you have employees or significant assets at risk you can operate as a sole proprietor in your own name. An LLC or S-corp can offer some protection in case of a lawsuit, but you should avoid those possibilities in the first place. An LLC or corporation may offer some tax advantages, but generally single-owner LLCs just pass through income to your schedule C (business income). Keep it simple, no reason to create a bunch of paperwork and compliance issues -- focus on billable time.

Don't get in the position of a customer owing you a lot of money, and don't put yourself in the position of owing your customer a lot of work you can't deliver on.

I have some free (no ads or popups or affiliate links) articles about freelancing on my site typicalprogrammer.com.

1attice 3 years ago | | |

1. Contract work can take many forms. I found great success with informal "please keep my business online" work when I was very raw -- part time network admin is how it was called, and I was a PTE of a couple of small orgs.

2. Later, I was more seriously into contract work, and I was dealing with companies that wanted me to incorporate. In my jurisdiction, this cost $300 and happened instantaneously after a visit to a government website.

3. If you live in a jurisdiction with sales tax(es), you will need to collect your sales tax. This is actually one of the worst/most irritating aspects.

4. do purchase private dental and health care insurance. You never know what will break loose next, because you're mortal. (A fact that tech folks can easily forget, myself included).

5. Back to the primary frustration. In my jurisdiction, the government can be *really harsh* with folks that aren't collecting sales tax. This can result in frozen accounts. I have a friend who forgot to collect sales tax while driving a literal taxi cab, and wound up, over half a decade and several careers later, with frozen bank accounts and an emerg move back home with the parents -- at 35, because of a tax mistake he made in his twenties.

If you're a business, you are subject to business-grade laws, and you can get in a lot of trouble, especially if you're ever asked to certify or attest that a particular system is effective, safe, or secure.

So, yeah, if you wind up doing this work for more than a few months, get a lawyer on retainer and get an accountant.

This sounds like more hassle than it actually is.

unboxingelf 3 years ago |

Zoom calls are the norm, video often requested. 3-5 rounds are typical at the bigger tech co’s, usually a mix of soft skills, technical discussion, code challenge or take home.

mpaepper 3 years ago |

Can you showcase any projects you've worked at in the mean time? That way you could fill some gaps with project stories which might make it easier for you. Good luck with the search!

rabbits_unite 3 years ago | |

I see the benefit of that. At my previous jobs, I worked on some big name products in use today. I don't have a public personal dev repo profile (with all of those years working under heavy NDAs).

The private projects I worked on afterwards were minor pet projects for day-to-day life improvements (I don't think those matter).

I think this is maybe one place to begin with: create some public projects.

Thanks.

mxuribe 3 years ago | | |

@rabbits_unite I have heard that even seemingly mundane pet projects are considered a good idea to show...something about potential hiring managers having access to see how your code looks, how you document stuff, how you can potentially organize a project, etc. Of course, if the role you will apply to has less to do with coding, then this matters less i supoose. Also, this is only something that i have heard...Not sure if it would be the "thing" that gets you hired or not. But, i guess if it pertains to the role you're appying to, then i guess it has some logic with it.