RapidSlide Adjustable Wrench(mechanomy.com) |
RapidSlide Adjustable Wrench(mechanomy.com) |
The jaws invariably splay when you apply force, even if you're using them correctly. I've come to the conclusion that it's just intrinsic to having a moving jaw that moves easily enough to be useful.
At this point, if I expect to need the wrench ever again (or need to reuse the fastener), I'll just buy a proper wrench for it. The couple of Crescent wrenches I keep are for emergencies and plumbing (because I don't have combo wrenches that big and do it infrequently), nothing more.
Vise-grips? Another tool that I find is more apt to round something than grip it properly. If I'm reaching for them, I figure I'm already so dicked that I'm unlikely to make it worse. Once in a while they get me out of an otherwise unavoidable trip to the hardware store.
> Only downsides are price and they are not super low profile so you need a bit of room to turn in.
Pricey, but buy quality and cry once.
As for low profile, I actually find them nearly as thin as a typical crescent in terms of the handle; while the head may be same or thinner.
I recommend buying more than one size
https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump...
https://www.bahco.com/int_en/products/wrenches/adjustable-wr...
However, I prefer the Knipex pliers wrenches mentioned by other commenters. They are also useful for many other gripping, pressing and bending tasks that the traditional adjustables cannot do.
Edit: For vise grip type tools, Grip-On is the best value/quality. They have a slightly different release mechanism than the Vise-Grip branded tools that improves the ergonomics of the tool significantly. They are (or were last time I checked) relabeled by some high end tool brands like Snap-on. For the most part, I consider them an inherently destructive but sometimes necessary tool that will mess up a fastener. However there are a wide variety of jaw styles (and removable covers) available that can mitigate this, depending on the task.
For other options, there is a youtube video comparing different adjustable wrenches for strength (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyOd05PUix4). The Bahco did indeed do well, although it was not the very best the tested.
A lot of people don't know that there is a correct direction to turn these wrenches (and Channel Locks, and pipe wrenches). Older Crescent models had an arrow engraved on the handle to show this. You turn the wrench with the smaller jaw leading into the turn. This helps prevent slipping by putting pressure on the mechanism, which makes it harder for the adjusting screw to move.
I would say convenience and use case are just as important. A crescent wrench is non marring unlike alligator jaws or vise grips. It's also perfectly fine for low torque applications. It isn't for torquing lug nuts.
I have a wonderful wrench and socket set in standard and metric measures. It's in a nice case on a shelf in my garage. My crescent wrenches are hanging 5 feet away on a pegboard.
I needed to loosen an RP-SMA connector the other day. What size is that nut? Do I want to break out my wrenches and fiddle? Nope, the nut is only just beyond finger tight so two crescent wrenches and 5 seconds to get it off.
I found some truly excellent ones at hardware stores in Japan. For some reason they don't sell them elsewhere.
For larger hex things, and for square things, adjustable wrenches work fine. They're much nicer on (hex) pipe fittings than pipe wrenches.
I find the "adjustable" moniker doesn't really create the best expectation of how to use them though, implying that you choose the right setting to do the job and then it behaves like a fixed wrench. Rather on every use, I back the jaws off slightly with the thumb screw, put on the piece, then tighten up while it's on the piece. The more torque I need to apply, the more deliberate I am about making sure the jaws are snug before doing so.
Vise grips are for when you would otherwise use pliers, and want them to latch.
For something like common nuts and bolts - like you might find on a bike - I want one tool to do it all - similar to https://www.amazon.com.au/9-32mm-Adjustable-Spanner-Universa...
Or https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump...
One tool that'd be ok for a variety - but not infinite - of sizes to regular human torque levels.
But I wouldn't use it for plumbing.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072LWP3Y3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...
Honestly I love this thing. It is precisely manufactured, turns smoothly, and grips well. I use it mostly for sink and plumbing repairs around the house, but I've also used it on bikes and other things. It's really nice for that because the small size means it fits in places that would otherwise be hard to manage.
I hate them with a passion and have no much need as I've got pretty much tools of every sizes but... I like plier wrenches.
I've got many plier wrenches and even the cheap ones do nearly every single job I can think of better than an adjustable wrench.
https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump...
I teach my children that dollar store products are all junk. But I still let them shop there because it's an inexpensive way for them to learn the lesson that there are businesses that have no scruples about selling junk products.
I wonder how disheartening it is to be an engineer who designs these products. To be honest, they're probably just happy to be making a paycheck just like many of us. I've worked plenty of jobs that I didn't believe in.
"Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize."
If you want to say what you think is important about an article, that's fine, but do it by adding a comment to the thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field with everyone else's: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
It's actually a good submission, but you need to use the original title so that can people can figure out for themselves how to assess the content and what they want to say about it.
Is that accurate that over half the force is lost? As the helix angle gets lower wouldn't more force be transferred to the screw instead of the supports? I'm no mechanical engineer but my gut says 45 degrees would be the point where forces are balanced between screw and support and as the helix angle decreased (to 34 degrees for example) more than half the force would be applied to the screw.
However adding friction makes it much worse. Unlubricated steel on steel is really bad.
https://www.bellota.com/es-es/para-el-taller/herramienta-uni...
It’s still as solid as the day I bought it. All others I have seen grow loose with use.
https://www.metmo.co.uk/products/metmo-grip
I funded on Kickstarter (to get one for myself), and then again on Indiegogo (to get one as a graduation gift for my son) --- it's an amazingly nice tool, and once broken in, incredibly smooth.
Note that The crescent wrench already closes up linearly, so we’re just changing direction 90 degrees. There’s better ways to do that.
Found: in Australia we call them multigrips and I've got a few!
All adjustable wrenches have the inevitable problem that they are easier to break then their solid counterparts and have some flex in their construction.
I use one for changing the blade on my table saw.
They also double as a hammer if used wrongly enough.
It feels like there's been a strong Satanic / nihilistic philosophy at work among the hand tool industry for a while now. Started somewhere around the time period when the movie "Rambo" caused a fad for crappy "survival knives."
Part of it I think is that most tool buyers now (statistically) are urban/suburban homeowners or renters which are not going to use it much, and are often not even capable of wearing out the old style tools. (And are not the proverbial 500 lb gorilla).
Industrial tools are still quite sturdy. They’re also far more expensive than any normal homeowner would (or should) ever consider.
It’s the market delivering what people will pay for, not what people say they want.
10 Some people buy cheap and/or gimmicky crap
20 This is observed by the industry so even some name brands (like Crescent) make cheap and/or gimmicky crap
30 People notice that even name-brands are making crap, so switch from shopping on brand to shopping on price
40 GOTO 10
The sever decline in general product quality, together with an increase in unneeded complexity, is absolutely awful. You can go on amazon right now and for every product imaginable you can find many which are essentially just designed to be thrown into the trash in a couple of years, when with some actual effort the same thing could be made to last far longer.
It is easy to blame the buyers who "just cares about the cost", but I am not sure that tells the entire story. Surely there is a significant market segment of people willing to buy actual high quality products.
The bargain bin table saw on the other hand has multiple dimensions of accuracy, many joints that have to line up, many engineered materials with various degrees of quality (polycarbonate? ABS? cast aluminum?) along multiple interference angles. Not a good idea to throw that $129 special in your cart.
Remember that accuracy isn't cheap. Quality tool steel, dies, machining, QA -- it all costs money and is reflected in that price you're paying. Adjustable wrenches as show in the article are notorious for this problem. Backlash is one of those things that your average consumer doesn't think about. The engineer can do some quick thinking when shopping, "can I really manufacture XYZ part at scale and sell it (at retail!) for $1.00 and expect any degree of accuracy in that worm gear, on which this part relies on entirely for its usefulness?"
- Know someone who likes books? Buy them good books!
- Know someone who likes coffee? Buy them specialty coffee!
etc.. I never saw the point in "oh they love painting, I'll get them these super cheap paints" or whatever.
save yourself a ton of frustration and buy a set of harbor freight wrenches
High quality is a joy to work with and will serve you a long time.
However,I don't need the same level of quality in the things I have at home. I've built, repaired, and otherwise tinkered away on countless projects over the years with things I found/bought on sale/picked up along the way with no issues. I'm not a professional [plumber, carpenter, electrician, mason, machinist, etc] and I don't need the same tools they have to get the job done safely.
There's nothing wrong with choosing to spend your personal money on high end tools. In general I find the attitude around tool ownership to be one of gate keeping though, and I'm more interested in getting started and discovering what I really need with less expensive tools than I am in spending my entire budget on high end equipment only to learn that I don't need specific expensive features after a few uses.
When it comes to complicated tools, probably start with something reasonable and cheap. That covers not just tools, but also appliances and other things: cheap coffee machines are put coffee/capsule in and press a button, expensive one would be very manual.
You don't want to use a dollar store screwdriver but at the same time you probably don't need a Wera.
I have a friend who has a fault of buying the best of everything, for example he bought a $300 Milwaukee cordless to hang some pictures on the wall, because "One day I might want to build a swingset". It's been 8 years and he never built that swingset.
Last thing I want to do is round an allen, strip a screw, or round a nut because a tool can't be bothered to be the right shape and be made out of the right materials to apply whatever torque/pressure is needed.
Good tools easily last decades, and I have some from my dad. Cheap tools often last a hard use or two, and sometimes less than a single hard use.
I wholeheartedly agree with this view, with one caveat. You shouldn't cheap out on certain specialty tools where failure can pose a risk of injury or damage, a suspension spring compressor is my usual example. Fortunately, purchasing an expensive one-off tool isn't your only option! They're often available for rent from local auto parts stores, to keep with my example.
But yeah, besides that caveat, you'll often be better served by going with a reasonably priced tool. If you use it enough to wear it out, or break it, kudos! Time to upgrade.
Overall, it's not a bad philosophy. But I can think of a couple of complications here:
- For battery-operated tools, standardizing on one system means you can buy a handful of pricy batteries and share them among many tools. Batteries wear out, and eventually need repeated replacement. And only needing to replace, say, 3 batteries from a single brand is convenient.
- A lot of times, it's possible to buy medium-quality tool sets (say, hex wrenches) for less than $100. I'm literally going to use many of them as long as I live. Why not spend $70 and get something halfway decent, instead of the $30 junk?
- If you're doing a big project (refinishing kitchen cabinets, building a deck, etc), that can easily justify spending a few hundred dollars on a quality key tool. A quality drill/hammer driver pair is game changing, for example. Saves countless hours compared to my old gear.
I had Craftsman power tools until battery replacements were only available from fly-by-night companies and a couple of the tools started failing (after 20 years). I wound up buying a couple of DeWalt tools on sale and they've been rock-solid. So I added a couple more as needed. I tried a Ryobi line trimmer a few years ago, and the battery system failed within two weeks. So I took it back and paid $50 extra for a DeWalt version that has run flawlessly. I could save some money by buying less-used tools from a second, cheaper brand. But that would double my battery replacement costs over the next 20 years, and I'd need to do more research for each purchase.
So sometimes a set of "79 auto tools for one low price!" is a good move. And sometimes, mid-to-high end homeowner gear or even a contractor tool is worth the money.
I think we are in complete agreement! After 20 years of use are are more than qualified to know what you need and go get it regardless of the price point!
here's where things get really interesting , who really makes these tools in the first place?
https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-...
I find that "tools" develop the same sort of things we see in tech (brand love like this endless apple vs android thing).
but when you look at the chart of who actually makes these things.. it sort of falls apart.
Like "rigid", "Milwaukee" and the terrible Cryobi are all TTI?
Obviously built to different specs/price points but it is interesting to see one "brand" targeting all markets?
Maybe instead, aim to buy tools as cheaply as you can the first time.
I think it's best to just get your tools as gifts, or from garage sales.
But there are a lot of tools that are cheap, feel cheap, and will break on you.
Avoid using cheaply made tools -- this is also good advice.
A neighbor bought a table saw with really flimsy legs... and the whole things just shook when you put boards through it. Look, you don't want to use a table saw like that. For... all the common sense reasons.
Plus, with gifts at least, it's nice knowing my grandfather used the same socket set I have now. Emotionally-nice, and quality-nice... I know they aren't going to break on me since they didn't break on him.
For example, you might have an increased risk of wood kickback, very nearly lose a leg, and spend years in physical therapy trying to replace the muscle mass that died. (I knew a guy.) Or you might bleed out.
Seriously, a few extra safety features on a table saw can make the difference between life and death. Assuming you don't just disable them.
(I have a cheapish table saw, but one that isn't complete garbage. I treat it with about the same caution I'd treat unexploded ordnance from World War II.)
For a sufficiently cheap tool that might be instantaneously and the difference can be very hard to tell.
I think that you should spend money according to what you are comfortable with and what you actually have a use for.
>Too much money is thrown away in the name of "buy once, cry once" only to discover that you don't need the capabilities offered by the top of the line options.
I would say too many products are made and thrown away because people discovered that they were too badly made to use them.
It depends on the tool. Personally, I have a ton of Rigid tools. They all work really well. I replace them with Rigid if they break, actually, because my batteries work with Rigid.
But, my table saw is a good table saw, because I want it to be safe, I want it to cut straight, and I want to enjoy using it.
My bandsaw is a good bandsaw b/c I need something that can cut thicker wood sometimes and don't want to deal with blades breaking and popping off a cheap saw.
The other category where I like to spend more is tools I hate to use. Some things I have specifically for jobs that suck and anything that makes those jobs easier is worth it in my mind. I have a nice drain snake, and the most expensive toilet plunger I could find for this reason.
This happened to me when bleeding my hydraulic brakes - the screw was a 2.5mm Allen and my keys were slightly smaller than 2.5 from being rounded over a short period of time. That rounded the screw, and my choice was to leave my brakes without fluid.. or drill out the screw!
"There have been 3 great joys in my life: sex, food and music. Of these music has proved the most reliable."
but your comment makes me want to revise it:
"There have been 4 great joys in my life: sex, food, music and good tools, and of these, music and good tools have competed fairly to be the most reliable."
If you are a trade professional and regularly have tools crap out on you, that's one thing. But my tools are more likely to need replacing purely out of obsolescence than anything else. And having an overbuilt tool collecting dust is just as much a waste as throwing one away occasionally.
Is it?
For an example, the adjustable wrench in this article. What happens when you apply a lot of force on a stubborn nut? If the wrench experiences rapid unscheduled disassembly, you now have broken pieces flying in random directions.
In the US, the thing that most prevents this from being a problem is the threat of liability lawsuits. That doesn't apply to a tool made by a small company in China and sold by a fly-by-night outfit on Amazon's marketplace. I'm guessing Amazon is unknowingly the liable party here, but I'm not a lawyer.
How about something in between these two extremes? You don't need to go "top of the line", but you can save yourself a lot of frustration if you spend a little more than the absolute minimum...
Then, I also have started getting the one step up from the cheapest option. A lot of times that seems to be a better buy these days.
“Buy once, cry once” is basically the opposite of your philosophy, and my personal philosophy lies somewhere in the middle.
- Screwdrivers: I have 2 Wera sets with many bits (small and large). They come with nice fabric/velcro carrying cases that are perfect for throwing in a bag, car, or drawer. High quality and the packaging is worth it compared to something loose or in a plastic case. I also have one full set of non-configurable Vessel screwdrivers that stays in my work area. They are a wooden composite, feel professional but are not much more than crafstman prices.[2]
- Wire strippers, side cutters, adjustable wrenches, pliers, etc: These really depend on material properties and tight tolerance, and it's worth buying quality. I like Knipex and engineer brands.
- Sockets and non-adjustable wrenches: These tend to be sold in large sets at sale prices and at various qualities. Unless you're a mechanic you can probably go into any hardware store, do a quick google search for complaints, and buy the cheapest set of sockets and wrenches. Don't pay for "200 pieces" including crappy little 1/4" bits and crappy screwdrivers in a giant blow-molded case that will annoy you later. Bonus points if you can find a small, nice case filled with actually useful sizes (probably <18mm and/or 3/4").
- Ratcheting screwdrivers: don't buy one unless you really find you need one for some reason. If you do buy one, it will either be useless or expensive.
- Drill bits: buy house brand from an industrial supply shop or mcmaster. Make sure it's easy and cheap to replace individual sizes.
- Battery-powered tools: Pick something like DeWalt, Bosch, Milwaukee or Hitachi/Hikoki[2,3] (the name of this one varies wildly with region) with a full range of tools and good reputation
- Soldering iron: You probably don't need more power than a pinecil which is usb-c and super-portable.[4] Plus it's got RISC-V cred. It's so convenient to unplug my laptop for 30 minutes and plug this in, or plug into a usb-c battery. For benchtop, a "Hakko clone" that takes abundant and great TS12 tips is good. To be honest I never touch my clone or my much more expensive but heavy actual Hakko soldering station since I got the pinecil. Both pinecil and the clone similar price to a piece of crap with poor temperature control from the hardware store.
[1]https://www.vesseltoolsusa.com/product/screwdriver/detail/VT...
[2]I chose Hikoki because I move around and it's available globally, and because it has excellent but pretty inexpensive vacuum cleaners that use the same batteries as the power tools.
[3]https://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/hikoki-r36daw4z-36v-cordles...
[4]https://pine64.com/product/pinecil-smart-mini-portable-solde...
The free tools that come included with that 3D printer you just bought will slip and ruin at least one of the hex nuts holding the FEP to the vat and you will have to spend nearly $100 for a new vat when you could have instead spent $45 on a set of Wera hex tools, not trashed the hex screw, and have a damn nice set of hex tools forever. (And your bike will thank you as well.)
Also, anecdotally after 30+ years of using the free tools that come included with [whatever], I have never once ruined any of the hardware. The saying goes that a poor craftsman blames his tools, and that seems apt here.
https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump...
However a 6 piece Wera screwdriver set is $30-35 and easily to justify in any apartment or home and should last dramatically longer than a dollar screw screwdriver and MUCH less likely to cause damage to whatever you are working on. Even building a piece of Ikea furniture and the most minor of repairs (light switches, door hinges, loose chairs, etc) would justify the wera set.
Much better to buy something decent set for $35 than might last a lifetime of light use than the nearly disposable dollar store stuff. Even a small apartment can justify a handful of screwdrivers and allens.
For good reason! https://duckduckgo.com/?q=table+saw+accident&t=ffab&iar=imag...
I see it a lot with photography. Some talented photographers pull incredible images out of older digital cameras and lenses, and don't bother to get new cameras/lenses because the reality is that a new camera wouldn't make their images much better.
Other photographers lack that kind of creative skill but still spend their time buying better and better gear, talking about gear online, and taking pictures of test charts—all without improving their skill.
For example I own a cheap non branded wire stripper (an upgrade to using a knife) instead of the high quality 150€ self adjusting Knipex equivalent (which "only" makes life easier and saves time).
But with safety features I wouldn't budge (eg. saw and grinding tools). For example Bosch blue has anti kickback in certain angle grinders which detects jamming discs and stops the motor.
https://www.centricrf.com/torque-wrenches/sma-torque-wrenche...
Or other stores. RF connectors should be torqued to a specified torque listed on their data sheet. Improper torque can cause damage. Usually for equipment using SMA connectors this isn't a big deal (just replace the connector, they're cheap and the torque wrenches are expensive), but for the really high frequency stuff like 1.85mm connectors the connector itself is $70-300 so spending $100-400 on a torque wrench is reasonable.
I think people get it into their heads that they need to be a buy cheap or buy quality person entirely, and I think the most succinct point I could make is that it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. Buy quality for the things where you know what you want and value the quality improvement, and buy cheap for the things that are new and unknown to you. You don't need a pro-quality snowboard before you decide that you like snowboarding.
Funny enough I did buy some jack stands that looked good, and we recalled for catastrophic failures: https://images.harborfreight.com/hftweb/recalls/Jack-Stand-R...
If you need a single or low use unpowered tool I consider harbor freight. Generally anything powered, which is more expensive, I want to keep longer, and has a higher chance of damaging itself, what you are working on, or you I buy something name brand.
The harbor freight rolling tool chests are quite nice, and features on various tool/garage forums as a great deal.
...a potential, while under load and with a shift in weight, for the pawl to disengage from the extension lifting post, allowing the stand to drop suddenly.
Having just run to the garage to make sure that my Harbor Freight jack stands aren't in that recall, it occurred to me, "how do you fuck up jack stands?" If there ever was a patent, it had to have run out before my grandfather was born; just go copy a high-quality model, sorted. Even if one doesn't just plain copy the design, I don't think you'd have to be much of an engineer to come up with something that won't collapse on itself under load. I mean, there's three pieces to the whole damned thing, and the design seems to allow a lot of slop on tolerances. Yet the folks at Pittsburgh Jack Stands(tm) seemed to think, "but we could save another nickel if we made the tolerances just a bit larger."
Anyway, that's why I always slide some sort of backup under the vehicle no matter the quality of the jack stand.
https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump...
A thing of beauty
https://www.knipex-tools.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-wate...
The mini has still got the pushbutton and dual locking tabs, the XS is more compact, much lighter, and is slightly more complicated to use, but can be used one-handed.
It's fixed a number of problems with skis, bikes, and tents that you might not expect of its size, it will do properly maintained axle nuts and other large fasteners (it prefers 12mm and less, where most wrenches suck, but can do up to 18mm or 3/4"). I carry the 10" pliers wrench in my work tool bag for working on hydraulics, pneumatics, and it's definitely one of my favorite tools, unlike the accursed worm-gear Crescent wrenches...
The XS is useful even as a small tool in a carry-on. I've busted mine (and it's Cobra XS equivalent which is probably more useful on a job site) out in a datacenter, etc. to get a small job done. You can more or less crank on them with as much strength as you can and they won't break or slip.
I bought it as a laugh when I found one 50% off and ended up purchasing a dozen or so as Christmas gifts for my ops staff that year. Fits in the watch pocket of your jeans comfortably, so it's handy to just have on you all day especially if going up and down ladders.
It won't replace a full toolset for a serious job - but as a "just in case" pair for little quick jobs they are unexpectedly useful.
I then ended up with a collection of around 20 various Knipex tools over the years since they simply are so much better than anything else I've found. Their precision nippers are the bees knees for terminating cat5/6 into patch panels, for example.
Definitely pick up a "baby wrench" if you have an excuse to!
https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump...
The Knipex product that I love is their automatic wire stripper.
I know what you mean, but if I use the bolt that I want to loosen or tighten as a stopper, and then latch into the next bigger position, I think I never miss the right setting.
A Milwaukee drill is physically heavier than a Ryobi of the same size - purely because of all of the upgraded components to make it more durable/longer-lasting.
But if you are only touching 5% of the expected lifespan of your tool, no need to have one that's over-engineered.
1. is the milwaukee doubly-engineered compared to the ryobi? because if you end up with 2 ryobis, that's twice the material/energy input of the one milwaukee
2. you seem to be ignoring the possibility that the milwaukee is "so" over-engineered that you pass it on to someone else, greatly extending its effective lifetime.
If I was a professional or ran a tool rental business I would 100% agree. But I wouldn't buy a pickup track no matter how durable if all I need it to do is grab groceries. It's better to get a tool engineered for the level of work expected.
If nothing else, there are various kinds of wastefulness: money, pollution during manufacture / delivery, landfill, opportunity costs, etc.
This seems to be more or less a theme for knipex tools. I know I've put my full weight on a knipex combination plier before to cut something that I probably shouldn't be cutting with it.
Worked fine, no damage to the pliers.
There are plumbing tools I will never buy because I'm not a professional plumber. But you can be sure that the plumbing tools that I do own are top of the line for the tasks that they can accomplish.
The thing is an heirloom and may very well last forever, but basically has an unacceptable lack of modern safety features at this point. No trips, no guards, horrible ergonomics, weighs a ton, and has no grounding (keep in mind it's all metal). It also takes non-standard belts and I may or may not have cut my hand open twice just trying to change them.
So while I can understand the appeal of buying a tool that lasts forever, what are the odds you will actually want to use it forever?
Non-power tools: not so much. My grandfather-in-law's thread cutters and pipe wrenches are every bit at the level of whatever I could buy today.