Ask HN: Don’t Feel Like I Fit In, Should I Complete My Degree?

2 points by noobly 3 years ago | 8 comments

I’m two quarters away from either a CS or a pure math degree, so am really looking ‘job-forward’ right now. I feel I don’t fit in inside professional environments at all and it’s been a big obstacle for me in pursuing any professional type of work. Do you have any tips?

I took almost all my classes online, and I completely dread the formalism required vs my previous jobs (logging, construction, etc). I don’t personally know any professionals like this either. I’ve been trying to read books on identity and self esteem to grapple with these issues holding me back, but I’m having a hard time, I just feel like a fish out of water. To me it signals I need to work on myself, but I don’t know how to begin feeling ‘professional’ and not alienated. For context I run a farm by myself, I talk to maybe 6 people a month in a rural area. It’s extremely intimidating to jump into applying for programming jobs for me right now and I know my self doubt is going to shine through in any interview.

kstenerud 3 years ago |

A job is something you do for money. Everyone looks like they're fitting in because they're trying to look like they fit in.

A job is not our natural state; hunting and gathering is our natural state. Anything beyond that is unnatural.

So you do what needs to be done to bring in the money to give you the freedom to do what you actually want to do. Focus on that.

For context I spent 5 years maintaining a small farm while working remote as a software dev. You do what you have to.

Also, finish your degree. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Nothing's stopping you from entering the farm automation game.

noobly 3 years ago | |

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to this lonely post. Your words were relieving, and you're right - professionals are being paid to be professional, it's not their natural state, but learned behavior (which I of course can learn too, and hey maybe get paid for). My goal is to work remote while managing my farm, too.

I 'choke' a lot. I did it in sports in high school (wrestling), I did it during pubic speaking in college and I even see it when I'm playing casual board games with friends. I feel the same pressure and tendency to choke when I'm in these 'professional' settings. I would like to get over this somehow, and my intuition tells me the best way is through brute force exposure, but IDK how to expose myself to these scenarios. I also wonder if maybe I'm just not a good fit for this, which I'm open to. If I'm a square peg shoving myself in a round hole, I need not pursue this further, but I feel a little more effort is due.

*I talk really fast and pace constantly, and I've started to look at this as something reflective of general, holistic anxiety that needs to be addressed too. I just don't know how to start tackling this bigger picture. I don't really know where to go to figure this out either, but if I can work on these weaknesses I'd love it, I just don't know how. I don't think therapy is a good answer because I know what I need, which is exposure to these environments that induce choking, but I don't how to expose myself to such, aside from failing job interviews in 6-12 months.

kstenerud 3 years ago | | |

A friend of mine who is an extreme introvert took a teaching job 25 years ago. He was HORRIBLE at it because he couldn't interact with people very well. Nowadays he's so likeable on first meeting that it's eerie. Mind you, he went through a lot of nasty stuff and almost got fired numerous times (and actually did get fired twice). So it's not an easy road. Now he teaches in a university and is getting ready to retire at 51 and do something he actually likes.

We're more adaptable than we're willing to admit.

Edit: Take some public speaking lessons.

foooobaba 3 years ago | | |

You may need both therapy and experience. I have no idea if this is the case, but maybe you’ve had a rough time with things and you just think it’s normal since being tough and just continuing on no matter how hard it gets is just a way of life. I also grew up a rural farmer in the country, and it took me over 10 years to find out the thing I had been struggling with was result of a combination of factors including various “traumatic” experiences (chronic, acute, vicarious) that previously I just overlooked and didn’t think much of. If you still don’t want therapy [1] might be helpful, again idk your situation, but for me it was very helpful.

Regarding “professional” type stuff for coding, it’s really no different than building something to last and be reliable on the farm, and you get comfortable with it over time. For example instead of duct taping or hastily wiring something up, sometimes you really need to take some time and measure properly, cut, weld ect.

Since you’re still a student, one option you might consider is looking for an internship (remote), you’ll still get paid and the expectation is that you don’t have experience to all the stuff they don’t teach you in school (logging ect).

Another thing you can consider is maybe see how you can build some tech for the farm and even try to sell it or let some other farmers use it for free. You can get creative like use sensors/actuators, arduino/pi, data from your equipment, data from your vendors, satellite or drone imagery, robotics, integrate with a database or mobile app or your existing equipment. Then as you encounter problems and fix them, you’ll start getting interested in all those things like logging and unit testing, CI/CD, ect to make your system more reliable. Especially if you or others begin to actually depend on it. It will become one of those things you are building to last. That will give you something to boost your confidence and discuss during interviews, even if you make no money or little actual value from it. There is also the chance it can be a nice little side hustle or even bigger opportunity, you never know.

Good luck

[1] Trauma: The Invisible Epidemic: How Trauma Works and How We Can Heal From It https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Invisible-Epidemic-Works-Heal/...

logicalmonster 3 years ago |

Based on what you describe, consider looking into something like consulting or freelancing.

You can spend most of the time on your farm.

You can avoid the corporate office politics and BS.

You can work on more casual and smaller projects in a more relaxed environment.

You might have a niche in a rural area such as helping other farmers get setup with selling some of their products online.

noobly 3 years ago | |

I was going to ask how I’d consult without having career experience as a developer, but maybe you’re right with the last line.

brudgers 3 years ago |

The worst professional outcome of finishing your degree is the same as the expected professional outcome of not finishing.

noobly 3 years ago | |

You’re right, it’s not like it’s a significant cost to complete it at this point.