My first question for these "Use GPT to X" projects is, what does it bring to the table beyond ChatGPT capabilities? Couldn't I use chat.openai.com to accomplish the same thing?
But... if it were my dream job, I'd definitely put more effort into the cover letter. I'd use it to say why this is my dream job, rather than simply re-stating what's on my CV.
I am writing to apply for the Expert Contributor role at YCombinator LLC. As a Hacker News Demigod with a passion for crafting finger-licking, succulent comments, I am confident in my ability to exceed your expectations and make a significant contribution to your team.
With my experience as a self-employed Hacker News commentator and my track record of consistently producing top-rated comments, I believe that I have the skills and expertise necessary to excel in this role. I possess supersonic news scanning skills, lightning-fast research and fact-checking abilities, and am fluent in tech and startup lingo. Additionally, I am an expert in crafting snarky comebacks that engage readers and drive discussions forward. You can check my website www.github.com for some of my latest hilarious contributions.
My experience as a Cleverest Tech Support Commenter has honed my ability to write with a hip and snarky voice that resonates with IT enthusiasts. As such, I am confident that I can help make your brand go viral, buzzy, and catchy, ensuring that your logo is as sticky as a post-it on a laptop. I can also conjure side-splitting, tear-jerking, and occasionally thought-provoking content out of thin air at least thrice an hour.
I am fluent in news speak, tech babble, and sanctimonious comebacks, and can combine knowledge, wit, and buzzwords to make each comment truly legendary. I am also in possession of a keyboard (required) and a cape (optional - but recommended) to help me fight for the truth and justice in the Hacker News realm.
Thank you for considering my application. I look forward to the opportunity to discuss my qualifications further, and maybe meet your virtual dog in a VR conference.
Sincerely, John "Upvote" Doe
Thank you for your application for the Expert Contributor role at YCombinator LLC. Your cover letter certainly caught our attention, and we appreciate your enthusiasm and passion for Hacker News.
We were impressed with your track record of consistently producing top-rated comments and your lightning-fast research and fact-checking abilities. Your ability to craft snarky comebacks that engage readers and drive discussions forward is also a valuable skill in the world of tech and startups.
We also took a look at your GitHub page and found some of your latest contributions to be both hilarious and thought-provoking. Your experience as a Cleverest Tech Support Commenter and your ability to write with a hip and snarky voice that resonates with IT enthusiasts is also a valuable asset.
At YCombinator LLC, we are always on the lookout for talented individuals who can help us make our brand go viral, buzzy, and catchy. We believe that your skills and expertise would be a great asset to our team.
We would like to invite you to a virtual interview to discuss your qualifications further. Please let us know if this works for you, and we can arrange a convenient time.
Thank you again for your interest in YCombinator LLC, and we look forward to speaking with you soon.
Sincerely,
An AI at YCombinator
We don't have any formal process for hiring (we're <10 FTE) so whether you add a cover letter is up to you, but if you submit one and I spend my time evaluating your message, and it turns out you had an unrelated third party bullshitting me from the first to the last word, I expect this is not going to go over well.
As an IT person, I do have to commend the automation, though. There are pros and cons to weigh as you use this.
I wish more people knew just how low the bar was for writing a decent cover letter. You don’t need to spend hours researching the company or choosing the perfect prose. Just a few short sentences that add some context to your application that might not be fully captured in a resume format can make a huge difference.
The weirdest part is that when you get people into a conversation, like on the initial phone call, they can usually come up with a quick elevator pitch for themselves on the spot that would have been great cover letter material. Yet there’s something about the cover letter format that makes some people clam up and get writer’s block. Or they just hate the idea of writing something for someone else to read, so they don’t put any effort in.
Regardless, I don’t think ChatGPT generated cover letters are going to push this ahead. The samples look like it’s yet another ChatGPT style generically safe output. I also feel like I’m rapidly getting good at sensing ChatGPT style writing.
“I’m applying for this internship because I have already done Java in class and that’s where I want to spend my career”
That would be 4 lines more than all my internship applicants.
I know job searching isn’t fun, but it’s shocking to see how some candidates act like they can’t be bothered to even have simple person-to-person discussion about their application or career interests or write even a simple written description.
2. Bob uses AI to convert Alice's corporate bullshit into concise summary.
This is why the cold job search process is so awful. No one cares about the least efficient channel. It should be the last resort in your job search, and it’s absolutely fair to try and game this broken system with a cover letter generator.
I am excited to apply for the OpenAI Research Residency program as a Research Resident. As a software engineer with experience in building scalable systems in the fintech, health, and adult entertainment industries, I believe I have the skills and expertise required to excel in this role. I am particularly drawn to the opportunity to work on real, cutting-edge AI problems and advance the research agenda of the team.
I have a strong math background and proficiency in programming languages such as JavaScript, TypeScript, Node.js, React AI, and C++. I have also published research in the STEM field, created large software systems, and authored highly cited publications. Moreover, I am a self-starter who is motivated to discover AI breakthroughs and their potential benefits to humanity. I am excited to immerse myself in the fundamentals of machine learning and work closely with a team of machine learning researchers to build AI systems that can perform previously impossible tasks.
I am available and interested in joining OpenAI full-time after completing the Residency, and I am willing to relocate to San Francisco if required. I believe I can contribute to OpenAI's mission and help shape the future of technology. Thank you for considering my application. I look forward to the opportunity to discuss my qualifications further.
Sincerely, Angelina Lee
It'll be back to "who you know, who recommends you, and who you trust."
If cover letters are not a human effort any more they can be left out.
Recently I was involved in supporting my manager in hiring for a new Developer position and we barely even skimmed the letters. They are already basically useless
If it becomes an effortless throwaway generated by an AI, it no longer has value. Additionally, you may be shooting yourself in the foot. If I see something in a cover letter that catches my eye, I'm going to bring it up in our call to learn more. Not to quiz you or play gotcha, but because it probably intreagues me and I want to learn more. If an AI wrote it and you don't know what you submitted to the job posting, that's not going to reflect well in a call.
If your cover letter is so generic that it doesn’t have any personal connection to why you’re interested in the position, it’s probably not a good cover letter.
It's not surprising that people are trying to start businesses which would not be viable in a market where bullshit was more expensive.
Native advertising in the media.
Mass produced foods and products pretending to be artisan.
> Are reposts ok?
> If a story has not had significant attention in the last year or so, a small number of reposts is ok. Otherwise we bury reposts as duplicates.
It's not clear what "significant attention" means, and how many are "a small number". The other post got only 18 upvotes and 7 comments, so I guess a repost is fine.
I kind of just felt the same about their cover letters, they always feel a bit just contrived enough to filter out people too lazy to do them or something. I really just cared if they could pass a fizzbuzz and answer some hard questions with "i would have to google that" instead of trying to technobabble me
Hell, LinkedIn should be able to have a chatbot answer recruiter emails on my behalf with me out of the loop. When I’m looking for a job they have all the information needed to accurately answer solicitations from recruiters. Just do it for me and leave me out of it until an on-site is scheduled.
Cover letters can be a helpful filter for this. In my experience a pithy cover letter is better than no cover letter. But no cover letter is better than a bull shit one.
You can bet that if I smell diarrhea of the chatgpt in a cover letter, it’ll get a fast pass to the bottom of the heap if not a direct route to the reject pile.
It's funny how people come up with similar ideas and are able to make them into products quickly with ChatGPT
His is open source if you are interested in how it's done: https://github.com/vincanger/coverlettergpt
Successful people network instead; don´t be part of the PDF pile, work around it!
This adequately explains one or more places I've worked.
I’ve gotten hired twice for positions that didn’t even exist when I started the process. Let me tell you it’s real easy when there are no other applicants.
And if they have, are they stupid enough to actually believe it?
For most people looking for work, rent's due next month, and they are machine-gunning applications, they aren't actually deeply passionate about getting a job at <your particular company>.
But a lot of times the candidate will say why they are interested in the role (they are passionate about the space, they use the product, etc) and it does give higher intent than just a normal application (which candidates often just spray out).
(I'm at a 20 person company now but read them even at larger companies)
Btw, I do the same when I'm reaching out to a candidate. I'll explain why I'm reaching out and why I think they are a good fit.
If you think a successful cover letter talks about being deeply passionate or otherwise over-the-moon about the company, your understanding of what signal they give is misguided in my opinion. I look just for some indication that it’s a human who has even the smallest understanding of our company, and maybe had some connection from their history to our mission. That is still helpful, including for the new developer I just hired two weeks ago.
The cover letter and free-form two questions I ask are, somewhat surprisingly to me, one of the strongest signals in figuring out whether to talk to someone or not. Resumes can list lots of similar skills, but a plain English writing customized for my job application, even if it’s small, tells me oh so much about their priorities, their writing ability, and more.
And I fully understand they’re looking for a job anywhere to pay the bills. Even as a cofounder of a small company, that’s part of why I work, too :)
Requiring a cover letter becomes a neat shorthand way to filter those legitimately applying and those that aren't. Those seeking to fulfil their 20 applications/fortnight quota don't submit cover letters - they still met their requirement, and I don't waste my time reviewing their CV.
() Even people legitimately seeking jobs would do this. They would spam out their resume to 12-15 jobs, and then with the time saved, they would use that to 'properly' apply for the handful of jobs they were seriously considering.
Regarding "are they stupid enough to actually believe it" - I don't know, but what do people usually write in cover letters? When I wrote it - it was basically CV, just in text form instead of bullet points. But then _lying_ in cover letter is basically the same as lying on CV, no? Or, if companies tend to believe CVs, I would expect them to at least _pretend_ to believe cover letters, too.
Realistically though I'm applying for jobs that match my skills (more or less). It would be nice if you company is cool and saving the world but I've found that most of the time I get a job and then get passionate about the industry.
Even when the company is cool they are the 4th great place I've applied to and the first 3 I struck out at.
It's always the boring banks and such that ask you the "What attracted you to apply here?".
Related tangent, harming the sick:
Healthcare expense reimbursement denial by software, decisions "blessed" by Doctor at 60,000 diagnoses rejected per month.
- https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health...
Previously this step could be used as a filter, but now all the letters are going to be good which means the hiring part has just become a little more difficult.
Is this a good thing? I guess?
I really hope AI cover letters finally put an end to this nonsense.
Is the job posting real? Has it already been promised to someone's buddy? Is the job real, but significantly below market rate? Will this be pre-screened by HR looking for magical keyword X else it gets thrown in the bin? Has John Carmack already applied, and I would be wasting my time? Is the job real, but it will take six weeks before someone deign acknowledges I applied?
Then it's not just autogenerated: apparently it's what they actually mean to say because they've read it (also: equal time spent compared to me) and still sent it. The problem is that the receiving party cannot know whether that's the case upon receipt if the "this was automatically generated" alert triggers.
> How is it any worse than some job coach formulaically writing it based on the job description and resume?
Someone else doing your applications for you would send a similar message I think, but then you can't just send out 100 in an automated fashion and waste a ton of time (unless you're rich I guess, but then you'd be better off with index investments). I do find it hard to say for sure how I will feel in what-if situations without having been in them.
> Cover letters are ignored all the time, and generally just serve to add as friction to reduce candidates.
Not my experience, but as I wrote in another subthread: the application process may be different in NL/DE versus whereever OP lives, or for my line of work compared to theirs. I wouldn't submit a plain CV without writing a few sentences on why I'm applying regardless of whether that's explicitly stated as required by the receiving company.
how would you know?
It doesn't say anything useful anyway.
I am a pretty hard to read person. I don't excited about switching jobs even if its for more money. I generally have a monotone voice when interviewing.
Some time ago, after an interview I aced, the recruiter called me and asked "why I don't seem to be interested in the position". I was like what? Apparently, because I didn't sound excited about working for an insurance company they were on the fence. The manager I interviewed with at the end was obnoxious, saying things straight from a script. I don't think I can work with people who act like "excited puppies". I'm a damn adult just trying to program and learn new stuff, but mostly put money in my bank.
Maybe I would be excited about working for some space program......but even then there is always the day to day.
Because people that lack passion for their work cut corners to avoid doing it.
Obviously you want staff that like their work enough to be fully engaged with it, but fake passion is bullshit that's often foisted on us by marketing/HR drones. Think of how people who work at Subway stores are called 'sandwich artists' when the reality is that they'd probably be fired if they deviate even slightly from the approved recipe.
I don't want to work with people who are primarily driven by passion tbh, because they're likely to either burn out or be intransigent when there's a difference of opinion. I just want people to be friendly and not robots.
A good programmer will always try to do a good job irrespective of their level of passion with the stuff they are working on. Does enjoying a specific piece of work more produce better code? Maybe because I would have more fun writing it. But I doubt most of us gets to do the exciting work everyday. Ironically, if you are relying that much on passion, you might get those who cut corners on unexciting work. Rely instead on good programming skills coupled with professionalism.
A professional gets shit done. With my higher experience, I have a better understanding of what provides business value and don't work on it more than that, because it is not valuable.
I am passionated about technology, programming and system design. I have about zero passion for writing documentation and good pull requests - but I do it anyway, and I like to think I do it well.
If I only did the parts of my job I had passion for, I wouldn't be a very good employee. If people only worked for companies they were passioned about most companies would have so much more trouble hiring (who is passionate about working for Wells Fargo? Doing SCADA work for a flour factory?).
If you want everything done "by the book", you want a pedantic anal retentive asshole. Unfortunately I never see that in job descriptions.
We at company XXX are building a solution that does a,b,c.
We want senior level programmer with a preference given to a candidates having these specific skills / domain knowledge.
The job is in the office, (no) need to travel. Requires (or not) clearance / degree / license / etc.
We pay this much (range is ok) and offering such and such benefits.
Please explain why you are a good candidate for this job.
Skip enthusiastic, passionate, hard working, woke, tolerant, etc. etc. bullshit because everyone is asking the same crappy questions here and gets the same crappy answers and it is all meaningless.
My bigger worry is that we will start getting AI generated CVs. If we have to ignore CVs then there will be no alternative to paying middlemen.
They already are very low signal.
> we will end up that you have to attend an in person interview at some intermediary
So like a recruiting agency that does pre-screening? That is a thing already.
This must vary a lot on context. For the hiring I've done, they're usually a 'low signal' only because they are so uniformly poor. I do read them, and a cogent, original letter immediately stands out.
by no means - when i was doing hiring (not now) cover letter was almost always the most important thing. the cv says what you have done, the cover says what you want to do.
> So like a recruiting agency that does pre-screening? That is a thing already.
and a very bad thing - i do not want possible good candidates screened out by some chinless-wonder in an agency.
If it can be done by ChatGPT .. there's no point in the ritual; we'll most likely end up scrapping it.
No cover letters. No marketing fluff. No library photography. Less hiring. Less jobs.
Personally, I like the UBI idea.
Low-effort cover letters have been around forever.
As far as I'm seeing, this is just another tool to provide boilerplate cover letters where people lack communication ability to write their own.
As a hiring manager, the majority of cover letters I already receive are basically worthless. You can tell when someone is writing a cover letter because they think they have to, or when someone is writing a cover letter because they've actually thought about how to communicate something to the hiring manager.
Most of the boilerplate cover letters communicate basically nothing useful, and I end up ignoring them after the first read through.
When people make an effort, though, I make sure to carry the cover letter through the interview process so we can all collect the additional context as we interview the candidate.
More middle (wo)men does not sound like an improvement. But to be fair, I don't really know what the deal is with cover letters. When applying to a job, I always write some text in the email that explains why I can do that job and why I'm interested at all, it's not like I just drop my CV on an email address and trust the recipient to take it from there. The application process may be different in NL/DE versus whereever OP lives, or for my line of work compared to theirs.
For technical hires I'd be looking at their interests i.e. github likes on followed projects, created works, etc.
This makes for good conversation in interviews are gets to the point of seeing if their a good fit.
Maybe that will change with AI. But I bet there will be pretty easy ways to detect that - if nothing else, during the first step in the hiring process.
If not, why not?
In the context of job applications, think how many recruitment ads are just a collection of buzzwords and happy talk, while omitting crucial information like pay etc. HR departments are notorious for their low quality of communication.
yes, well, stuff happens. still, i don't think you can beat a good covering letter.
> In the context of job applications, think how many recruitment ads are just a collection of buzzwords and happy talk
which is why i hated using agencies.
my favorite interview memory was (for a c++ role) with a guy who had a degree in ancient greek (anyone fluent in ancient languages seems brilliant to me, as i only have a bit of schoolboy french). anyway, this was for a big 6 accountancy firm, and us programmers had to pass the same IQ tests that the accountants did, adminstered by HR. i amazed them by 100% on the visual/spaciel test - HR girl: "golly, no one has done that before!" though what accountants were to be expected to do with this skill i have no idea.
anyway, the guy we were interviewing was given the test papers and a pencil by the HR girl and left him to do it. 5 minutes later he came out of the interview room (i'll call him A):
HR: sorry is there a problem?
A: i've lost my pencil
note this was a very small room.
but once provided with another pencil, he did a pretty good job.
then he got the techie interview stuff with me (project manager/architect) and J (tech lead). this went well - he obviously knew his stuff. but then he offered to show some of his code for his current project:
me/J: cool
A: [searches through briefcase] oh, oh god, where is it???
me/J: collapse laughing
and we hired him. and he was great.
sorry this went on a bit, i had forgot and just rembered. this was about 30 years ago
I'm praying that humans have the ability to think more about meaningful purpose.
That said, a lot of companies get really high volumes of applicants, and can't always do that.
Slightly more seriously, if AI makes cutting through the noise of resumes submitted from unknowns even more difficult, maybe people default more and more to hiring people they know--which they already do to a non-trivial degree.
Apologies. You deserve a thoughtful answer but I’ve had a day. Maybe others can add in, but the most common one for me is when they bind their qualifications to the role by way of one or two (very) short anecdotes or personal experiences. It also gives me something to ask about that you’re likely comfortable elaborating on. A great ice breaker.
What I don't get is what benefit does a company get by people pretending that they are applying for anything other than the (total) salary?
What's there for you to be baffled about?
Many years ago I worked as a hiring manager for a PR firm in India, the cover letter is a very good way to sift out the dedicated candidates from the unfocused.
It also provides us with a unique insight into their psyche, using a combination of NLP and targeted interview questions regarding topics mentioned in the cover letter, we were able to discern potential points of leverage when it comes to salary negotiation. For example, an ideologically driven unior associate will accept a lower yearly salary as long as he's personal ego requirements are fulfilled, thus minimising operational expenditure for the business.