> “We wouldn’t enter into this agreement if we were not optimistic that engineering advances are gaining momentum,” said Microsoft President Brad Smith.
Why not? What's the downside for Microsoft, even if they think this probably won't happen by 2028? They even get paid "penalties" if Helion doesn't deliver.
Absolutely not! They’re also trying to look cutting edge.
Whether by incentive or by coercion, it feels like the DOD and the DOE would want to have first access to any breakthroughs and also guard knowledge transfers (ie protect any program - commerical or government - from foreign state espionage).
The DOE is basically an entire national security organization centered around nuclear security, it seems unlikely they would be standing by watching R&D in fusion occur without a seat at the table.
The US may want cheap energy to spread world wide. That doesn't necessarily mean the US wants fusion tech to spread world wide.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_...
There is expertise in DOE and DOD, but there is an also a lot of private capital being invested in companies that don’t need to talk themselves up much. People in the industry generally know who most of the players are; that’s how you or your technical peers/friends get a job after all.
I don’t see a particular need for there to have been a top secret breakthrough to explain this deal.
From what I can gather a lot of Improbable Matter's critisism is based on misunderstandings or flawed understanding of Helion's specific approach. But yes, it's a good watch if you don't blindly trust his conclusions.
We know we can achieve fusion, but as far as I'm informed we still don't know that we can take more energy out than we put in.
"Bet" implies a potential for loss. This is a couch-cushion spare change level "bet". Microsoft probably spends more on printer ink every month than they stand to lose on this bet.
They're going to get ~$50M worth of power. Either they're going to overpay for Fusion or overpay for energy from some other source if Helion can't deliver and has to pay for it via penalty.
It's not really much of a risk for MSFT.
But it's a great headline for Helion to pass on to clueless people.
> Helion’s deal with Microsoft is to get 50 megawatts online,
Looking at solar costs https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/capital-costs... 50MW in solar would cost 50-100M and I can't imagine this could be much more expensive or it wouldn't be competitive at all. Microsoft annual operating expenses for 2022 were $114.887B so about a 1-2000 times more.
If Helion actually pulls off productive fusion, Microsoft will buy the power regardless. Same with Boom, if their jet really is efficient, United would buy one no matter what because it makes business sense. Signaling like this feels more like a marketing campaign to investors rather than a signal of potential.
https://www.helionenergy.com/articles/ending-trenta-operatio...
Here is some raw video of plasma in a Safire chamber vaporizing a tungsten rod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y46wMAHnsI
Workers already feel priced out of the housing market, just add it to the pile.
Two unique properties of energy density like Fusion.
1. The ability to hit 10% of the speed of light in space 2. The ability to create fundamental elements like gold, silver etc.
Another good example of the fact that there are no scarcity of resources only scarcity of knowledge. Resources are created not found.
Edit: Why am I being downvoted?
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/20/nuclear-fusion-will-not-be-r...
> On December 13, 2022, the United States Department of Energy announced that NIF had exceeded the previously elusive Q ≥ 1 milestone on December 5, 2022. This was achieved by producing 3.15 MJ after delivering 2.05 MJ to the target, for an equivalent Q of 1.54.
Improbable Matters video is.. OK. He raises some valid concerns. I think he was genuinely trying to understand and critisize the technology honostly. Though it seems he misunderstands some key facts. I've never seen that kind of honesty with Thunderf00t.
On the contrary, I think as long as it's generating revenue, it's not going to be given away. Remember that UNIX was popularized only because AT&T were under anti-trust sanctions and couldn't sell it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_union_ter...
And I still don't see how more longevity would help (aside from helping to kick the can further while our situation worsens even more) - women have a fixed number of gametes they acquire before birth - increasing their longevity is not going to postpone menopause !
Furthermore, so far extra longevity and a better quality of life (and especially education of women, as already theorized by Malthus) has been correlated with a reduction in fertility rate - again, something that is typically seen as a good thing !
how are we going to get fertility rates back up to replacement or higher once all countries have dropped below?
Everything you can think of off the top of your head has already been tried and failed.
By longevity tech I mean we need some scifi level inventions like extending lifespan and healthspan by >50% so we can move the retirement age to 120 or higher while we work on the other solutions like perfecting cloning, artificial wombs, or creating artificial eggs, or the really hard sociological problem of getting people to reproduce when they don’t want to.
Saying we need to reduce our population by 50% is ghoulish and shortsighted, it’s like saying you need to reduce your number of limbs by 50% to lose weight. It’s about as much a solution as suicide.
Fission was supposed to be super cheap too, but construction costs rendered that a fantasy.
Aneutronic fusion would (hopefully) bypass a lot of that.
Do you really not see the geostrategic advantage in being able to control who gets "free" energy and who doesn't?
And it's not like the US controls who gets energy right now, or would be able to for more than a short time. China is already attempting to copy the Helion reactor; if it works then efforts like that will ramp up worldwide.
Some of this is contingent on issues that can already be resolved through policy (e.g. work-life balance, affordability, daycare). AI could help but it's redundant.
Even if there were a decline in population globally for a few decades, it will be working backwards from 10+ billion. Who cares?
There's no reason to believe they would be "stuck" into perpetuity.
Right now, young people comparatively want fewer kids than the previous generation. That's owing to both life stresses (as they say it) and cultural shift, neither of which are written in stone. The fertility rate has stagnated with prosperity, but the U.S. was also quite developed by the end of the world wars, and we then had the boomers.
> they require a lot of societal wealth
Scandinavian countries aren't particularly wealthy compared to the U.S., Germany, France, Japan and others.
Of course there are different levels of obsolence, all the petrol cars won't disappear, unless someone invents a magic liquid to replace petrol/diesel with something that works identically but without the pollution.
Even if electricity becomes cheap (we can already do that with wind and solar) changing everything else is a huge task.
(The rumor suggested that's why there was a weird sudden drop in oil and gas prices several years back and then prices nearly "flatlined" for a few years there rather than sticking to a slow inflation-locked climb as it had been. The rumor was that OPEC had started to liquidate its reserves as fast as possible without crashing the market.)
If that was the case, one would hope that OPEC members were also smart enough to plan for after the "going out of business sale" and smartly socking away the money into long term investments. (Further speculation: given the real estate booms in UAE and Qatar, especially, and attempts to spin some of those cities as world tourism destinations there may even be evidence that that is what they have been trying to do.)
> Of course there are different levels of obsolence, all the petrol cars won't disappear, unless someone invents a magic liquid to replace petrol/diesel with something that works identically but without the pollution.
I don't think it will need "magic", I think the feedback loops between supply-side and demand-side economics can handle it all on their own, and possibly (probably, IMO) surprisingly quickly once things start to snowball: gas pumps are already low margin "loss leaders" for convenience stores and supermarkets. As prices get higher the usefulness as "loss leaders" shrinks. As EVs spread, demand drops which could drop prices (temporarily) but that also lowers the usefulness as a "loss leader". Any such price drops are almost guaranteed to be temporary because as demand drops, production should drop. Production is capital heavy and much of production once it shuts down, in theory shuts down for good (especially if demand isn't expected to go back up) because the costs for restarts become increasingly too expensive. As the usefulness for gas as a "loss leader" drops below certain thresholds, consumer gas pumps start to disappear. As gas pumps start to disappear, demand for EVs increases, furthering the drop in demand for gas, exacerbating the disappearance of gas pumps. Eventually, as that cycle snowballs, ICE range anxiety returns with a vengeance and petrol cars become museum pieces too expensive to drive.
Because it is a feedback snowball, it could happen seemingly abruptly, almost like magic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(no...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and...
* I do believe the fusion paths Helios is using emit neutrons, which is a big safety concern. Not only is neutron radiation directly deadly to humans, it's also a challenge to maintain containment. Neutrons are not magnetic, so matter must be used as a shield. Most materials that absorb a neutron will itself become radioactive. I'm unsure about the number of neutrons Helios is emitting, or will emit as they scale up.
They're considering doing the D-D reaction in a separate reactor to produce the He3. The D-He3 reaction is purely aneutronic, and while some D-D will still happen, they can tune it so it doesn't happen much. That would mean very little neutron radiation at the power plants.
Yea. I'm just very curious as to what these numbers look like in practice. Neutrons are essentially waste emissions with their plan, but physics and engineering constrains will determine how much they can tune out D-D reactions.
Also, we never mass-produced fission reactors. Helion wants to build a factory making twenty 50MW reactors per day, shippable by rail.
Just look at what's going on with solar https://twitter.com/ArmandDoma/status/1656323112349179907
Yes in theory it should be easy to shut these people up with fusion but historically it hasn't been.
At their stated "optimum" temperature of 200 million kelvin[0] or ~17 keV, the selectivity of the two cross-sections (D-H3/D-D) is about 0.7[1].
Let x = the fraction of D (we'll generously assume no T contamination, so the remainder 1-x is He3), plug in the reaction energies[2], and rearrange.
Graph is here: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+y+%3D+1.225+x%5E2%...
The top line is total non-neutron power, and the bottom line is neutron power. The horizontal axis is the fraction of D in the mix, and the vertical axis is proportional to power.
It might help compare the relative tradeoffs if you zoom in on the rising slope of the power curve, and normalize both curves to 1: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot%3A+y%3D1%2F3.9503+...
[0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-buy-power-nucle...
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RxDT-DD-DHe3.jpg
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion#Criteria_and_ca...