Ask HN: Laid off –> solo founder. Do I look like I'm trying to hide something?

52 points by ephemeralname 2 years ago | 63 comments

Before I was laid off, I'd been working on a side project and had been looking for an excuse to quit my job to commit to it fully. I have quite a lot saved, and now I can survive off severance alone for over a year.

My fear is that should I return to the job market, I'll look like I'm trying to cover up a long period of unemployment on my resume. Employers would see that I only committed to this project after being laid off.

At any rate, it wouldn't be much of a handicap signal.

shortcake27 2 years ago |

My philosophy is that you should do what you want to do today, instead of doing something you don’t want to do because of a hypothetical future repercussion.

Could this harm future employability? Maybe. But what’s the alternative, work a job you don’t want to maybe have a better chance of working another job you also don’t want in the future? Personally, that’s not the way I’d like to conduct my life. Opinions differ on this, and that’s OK. Everyone has different priorities.

If you’re happy working on your own project, I think that’s fantastic. To me, that’s more important than optimising for a unknown future.

legalizemoney 2 years ago | |

Maybe I misunderstand your comment. Do you run into the street instead of stopping to look both ways, in case of a hypothetical car?

shortcake27 2 years ago | | |

Cars aren’t hypothetical. They’re real. You are deliberately misunderstanding and exaggerating my point to prove, well, I don’t even know what you’re trying to prove.

First, my point is about optimising for happiness. Running out onto a road without thinking has nothing to do with happiness.

Secondly, the risk profile between these two scenarios is completely different. In one, the OP _might_ have a slight difficulty in finding employment in the future (we actually don’t know, because there are so many variables). In the other, the OP is likely to be dead or seriously injured (which is something we actually know). These scenarios are not comparable.

paulcole 2 years ago | | |

As clever as your comment is, the consequences of not looking before running into the street are very immediate and very high. The consequences of the situation being discussed won’t be felt for at least a year (the runway the OP has with their severance), are hypothetical, and probably not that severe.

A lot can change in a year. There’s a lot of jobs. The OP can probably get one of them. Some employers won’t care at all about what the OP thinks they might care about.

Your risk tolerance may vary but I’m not going to do something I don’t want to do for a year because of what someone I’ve never met before might think a year or more from now.

dasil003 2 years ago | | |

Looking both ways is high ROI with very clear outcomes. Solo founding has a much broader set of outcomes. Even just within hireability this can cut both ways.

derstander 2 years ago | | |

The original author said:

> My philosophy is that you should do what you want to do today, instead of doing something you don’t want to do because of a hypothetical future repercussion.

Even interpreting this absolutely literally, the hypothetical car would be a today problem — not a nebulous future one. “Survive the day” would, for most, seem like a present want.

Southfield14 2 years ago | |

I definitely agree with this.

Though some of these other comments may suggest otherwise, there's no reason that the thing you want to do today can't also be the result of careful consideration.

iancmceachern 2 years ago | |

A bird in the hand is two in the bush

mejutoco 2 years ago | | |

And, according to the Spanish version of this saying, equivalent to to 100 birds flying.

malux85 2 years ago | |

I want to murder someone I’m mad at today, and I should do it because I’m ignoring hypothetical future repercussions?

Yes that’s hyperbole but the point stands, delaying instant gratification on impulses, individual tactics, individual strategic and societal level is a hallmark of a stable society encouraging conscientiousness.

shortcake27 2 years ago | | |

If you murder someone, the repercussions are not hypothetical; they are very real.

The OPs scenario is hypothetical because we cannot know effect this will have on their future employment.

You are arguing against something I never said.

qawwads 2 years ago | | |

Repercussions should not be what keeps you from murdering someone anyway. It shows you're still on stage 1 on Lawrence Kohlberg's scale of moral development [0]. I don't think your argument is valid for most people.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_o...

K0balt 2 years ago |

Nah, that won’t hurt anything unless one of your future employers requirements include low personal initiative and extremely high risk aversion.

I strongly recommend following your passions and interests above all other considerations. Just be sure to set your projects up for fast, clean failure if they aren’t viable, nothing wastes more time than failing to violently pivot when needed. Learn what you came to learn and if it isn’t financially sustainable, apply your new knowledge to the next project.

You won’t spend your sunset years wishing you had done less of the things you wanted to do. Regret is the real enemy, discomfort and struggle are stepping stones.

My$.02 as an oldster with 40+ years mostly self entertained in tech with a lot of failures and a few successes in the rearview. The only things I regret are some risks not taken, tbh.

If I have advice that I think missing could nuke your chances of success in life it would be:

Establish a point of retreat in an inexpensive place to live. A home of your own, somewhere in the world, where the cost of living is very low. It should be an economical and simple home with low maintenance requirements, in a place that brings you a sense of serenity. Being able to duck out and work on something without having to worry about significant costs has been critical to my freedom to choose my destiny. That and having a partner that is not adverse to adversity in the name of advancement, if you choose to have a life partner.

Best of fortune with your project!

dpifke 2 years ago |

Having been down this path before, my experience is that you have nothing to worry about.

I did have it come up once on a background check after accepting a job offer, because I had listed my startup on my résumé (but it no longer existed). The background check company asked for incorporation papers or a business license in lieu of paystubs, and was satisfied when I provided them.

A city or county business license is typically under $100/year and can be obtained as a sole proprietor if you're not yet ready to form a corporation or LLC but want a paper trail of when you started the company.

havnagiggle 2 years ago |

File an LLC for yourself. Give it a normal name. Add it to your resume if you ever need one again (and maybe you won't!). Gives whatever time you spent doing or not doing something more authenticity.

uptownfunk 2 years ago | |

Great idea, I’ve done this and people love it

cushychicken 2 years ago |

I did what you're asking about, and it worked out just fine for me.

You don't have to tell anyone that your decision to pursue your other project was partially due to being laid off. It is not dishonest to just not bring it up. (Contrary to what some interviewers and interviewees seem to think, it is not your obligation to share every shred of detail about your life and work circumstances to your prospective employer.)

I ended up taking another job after about a year of working in my side project and consulting. I was able to talk openly about what I'd learned doing both of those things, and it didn't hamper my job prospects in the slightest.

lbotos 2 years ago |

As someone who hires people -- If your resume says "Company A 2020-2023, Project Blah, 2023-X" I'll ask you to tell me about the project. If you have something to show for it, then I see no problem. If I say what's Project Blah and you don't have anything to talk about or to show for it then I have questions.

I have a friend right now who left Amazon and they are working on a side project. It's actually a great resume booster for them, exploring some new tech, owning product decisions, if anything, it shows they "understand".

sillysaurusx 2 years ago | |

What if I tell you “played Tears of the Kingdom for six months”? I’m quite serious; not only am I on month two, but many peoples’ side projects are a way to recover from burnout. The trouble is, they don’t realize they need to recover, so they disguise them as side projects — often disguising them from themselves, too.

I point this out to make you reconsider a bit whether you might be putting pressure in the wrong place. It’s an easy mistake to make, and one I’ve made many times.

lbotos 2 years ago | | |

I'll say: Oh, nice. What has your favorite contraption been? Sounds like you needed a break. What lead to that?

If I'm hiring you I need to assess three things:

- Can you do the work I need done?

- Do you want to do the work I need done for the time I need you to do it? (flight risk)

- Will you work well with others on the team?

In all of those answers I'm looking for: Will this person own their story and do I believe them?

caminante 2 years ago | | |

I disagree with needing something to show for it, but I think the intent of the comment above was to frame as a positive "story" and promote yourself.

I was laid off and was looking is an acceptable answer. Discretionary quitting and shitting on your prior employer is a red flag.

Larger companies' hiring process is all about de-risking you and screening out problems. They can only de-risk so much based on a resume, and it's more rare to have someone with 10+ years and zero gaps.

If a job candidate responded that they spent time between jobs playing TOTK without some levity layered on, I'd be concerned and ask further questions to see if they're a flight risk or in the right head space to join my team.

It's a yellow flag to me.

amerkhalid 2 years ago |

No, you should be fine. I had my startup on my resume for a bit and it didn’t seemed to hurt my chances.

Some interviewers asked me technical questions about the tech stack. Others were interested in business side of things, it was a good conversation starter.

ggm 2 years ago |

You have nothing to hide here. Accept and "wear with pride" that you used the lay-off to explore an idea. You can show its roots lie before the termination, and you made a rational decision.

riku_iki 2 years ago |

why would you need to say explicitly that you were laid off?

You can just say in resume:

Apr 2018 - May 2023: For-paycheck spaghetti code refactoring engineer in Large Boring Corp

May 2023 - current: founder and principal AI/crypto/quantum/whatever hacker in nextcoolthing.com

atomicnumber3 2 years ago | |

Yeah. And even if your last month listed coincides with a public layoff announcement, there are lots of people who jump ship very shortly after a layoff because being a survivor isn't much fun either. I know several people whose well-loved manager got laid off and they literally told me "yeah she's the only reason I could tolerate it here, I'm out." Talk about squad goals.

riku_iki 2 years ago | | |

> And even if your last month listed coincides with a public layoff announcement

I doubt people remember all these dates for a long time.

joshxyz 2 years ago |

I had a year long gap in my employment due to attempts of being a founder. The right company hired me because they gof impressed with what I tried to build. The skill to build things end to end and the ability to ship is impressive.

Also told me new employer that I love startups and that I might not last long in his company too because I want my own startup.

brailsafe 2 years ago |

This seems a bit neurotic and presumptuous to me. First of all, you can't control what others think of what you've factually done. Second of all, did you actually found anything or are you just taking time off to work on a side project with plans to return. Lastly, whichever it is, that's the way it is, what's to worry about? What would you do instead of working on your side project, and what would the hypothetical benefit be?

Anecdotally, I have an absolutely god awful employment record, and the market is also miserable. In previous layoffs, it's taken longer than a year to find a job regardless of what I'm doing during the down turn. I rarely even get a phone call back these days, but when I'm asked about what I'm doing now I say "I was laid off, and am taking time to work on some personal projects and find the next worthwhile company."

brailsafe 2 years ago | |

I'd add that I don't feel like neuroticism is an inherently negative thing, but when you're getting into the territory of ruminating about how people will perceive the fairly obvious path you're taking, it does strike me as unhealthy. If I needed to get divorced, would it be healthy to think about the hypothetical impression others would have of that to the point where I wouldn't get divorced?

mindvirus 2 years ago |

You can spend your whole life doubting yourself and worrying about what other people think.

Life's too short for that. Go build.

pcthrowaway 2 years ago |

I'm planning to quit to devote myself to a project that's been in the incubation phase.

I'm a bit unclear on why you think it might be considered a bad thing by prospective employers in the future.

Taking a project from the ideation phase to proof of concept to a product ready for end-users demonstrates follow-through, as well as the ability to manage all stages of the software lifecycle that don't involve team dynamics.

I figure it's more likely to be a selling point than something that would detract from my candidacy.

karim79 2 years ago |

> I'll look like I'm trying to cover up a long period of unemployment on my resume

It depends on how you approach the gap in your resume. Gaps in a resume are not necessarily a bad thing. They show that you're human, and they can happen to anyone and everyone. I don't think there's any need for a cover-up here nor any justification as to why you were not perennially employed.

If you are applying for a position which is a good fit for your skill set and experience, and present yourself honestly, you should be fine.

I know people who quit great positions to start rock bands, sandwich restaurants, all kinds of things. Those side-projects can play into your hands if you approach with honesty and openness.

gargablegar 2 years ago |

People don’t always need to be working.

If you have a gap and it’s filled with something you building that’s not an issue.

You can clearly explain you had saving and wanted to peruse an idea you had.

It’ll be something to talk about and shows initiative. If you explaining it in an interview it would have not worked out and from that perspective you can share your lessons learned in product or technical development.

Even if you say I saved cash and stopped working for a break - that’s ok.

HeyLaughingBoy 2 years ago |

I wouldn't worry about it. Interesting people with non-mainstream development backgrounds stand out in a good way. Over the years I've gotten tired of interviewing the same people over and over.

You'd just look like you tried something different, it didn't work out and you're looking for a job. I'd be most interested in what you learned from the experience and how it could benefit my team.

r0n22 2 years ago |

Put your side project in your resume. That will put no gap on your resume.

I have interviewed and hired others with ongoing side projects on their resume.

suprjami 2 years ago |

You look like you're trying to take control of your own income destiny instead of relying on some company who treats you as an expense.

Don't worry if it doesn't work out, 80% of small businesses fail within a year.

If you're looking for work later, just say you tried to start your own company. That's not a red flag on a resume (probably quite the opposite).

mattbgates 2 years ago |

If you've been working for a while, then take advantage of your situation and collect unemployment. Then a month before you know it's going to run out, you can apply for jobs. You have a lot of cometition so it may take time. But if you 'have a lot saved' mixed with unemployment, then take it easy for a few months.

geoduck14 2 years ago |

This isn't a problem at all. I'm interviewing candidates right now and I regularly see people who: spend 6 months working on a specific project, build out a niche project, or whatever. I think the key part is that you "have something techish in your resume" for that time period.

GianFabien 2 years ago |

I assume you are working on a side (now full-time) project in order to accomplish a specific goal. Perhaps it is to make money. Wouldn't it be better to be optimistic and focus on it being successful? Thus not needing to look for a job in the future?

junon 2 years ago |

> I'm trying to cover up a long period of unemployment on my resume.

And if a recruiter cares about this, run. Otherwise they'll expect you to devote all of your life to working. It's nonsense.

The answer to your question is, no, don't worry about it.

eswat 2 years ago |

What's wrong with working on a side project if you have the financial means to do so without other obligations? I’m sure level-headed hiring managers would agree and those that don’t are probably shops you’d want to avoid anyway.

kcsavvy 2 years ago |

Build something more impressive than you would work on while employed and it’s probably a plus. Following your interests (if you have the privilege to do so) can result in some really cool / impressive work to show off later.

jeffrwells 2 years ago |

I took a year off building a startup that went nowhere. I was incredibly worried this hole in my resume would hurt my job prospects and it didn’t at all, even in this market. No one ever asked.

svilen_dobrev 2 years ago |

impostor syndrome of a kind? don't ever show it. Just the opposite, be proud of what you have been doing aside of work, and without anyone paying you. That proves passion, and passion is rarely found nowadays.

But also, do carefuly read the fine print in the offers/contracts. i have seen a few claiming ownership over things made (by me) after AND ALSO before going there.. esp. if there's any overlap in domains.

sounds ridiculous but happens.

kevinventullo 2 years ago |

As a hiring manager at a big tech company, I would probably just be a bit jealous of your decision :)

rcme 2 years ago |

I was laid off and took a year off doing nothing. It wasn’t too big of an issue when I recently went looking for a job.

stodor89 2 years ago | |

I've done the same thing, twice. When job interviewers ask me, I just tell them the truth: "Eh, I just took some time off because I wanted to, and I could afford it." No one has ever held it against me, and if they did, I wouldn't want to work with them anyway. So, don't worry about it.

BasedAnon 2 years ago |

It's preferable to having a gap in your resume as I recently discovered

programmarchy 2 years ago |

Probably won’t matter, but maybe it’d be advantageous to pretend it will. “Burn your ships” so to speak.

bfrog 2 years ago |

The companies that view this sort of thing negatively aren’t ones you want to work for.

Justsignedup 2 years ago |

if you have friends in the industry, and they can make referrals, you'll be fine. Just explain it well. Many people understand the desire to do your own project. Or just "i had the money to take a year off, and i loved every minute of it"

quickthrower2 2 years ago |

If you register a company then technically you are either employed and/or a director.

Gortal278 2 years ago |

No one cares. Just go for it.

byyoung3 2 years ago |

if you are serious about starting a company than no, otherwise yes