Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

76 points by aijoe 2 years ago | 38 comments

I had no browsers open. I was minding my own business. Windows 11 gave me an unsolicited toaster popup, with the default action being to change Chrome's default search engine to Bing.

This is an atrocious dark pattern and a huge overreach for an operating system, whose job it should be to stay out of my way and run what I tell it to.

But more than that, this strikes me as directly anti-competitive behavior. I would appreciate views on this by people having more educated opinions on this than myself.

hackermatic 2 years ago |

I agree with you. If you have some time, consider writing a comment to your national or state/provincial consumer protection regulator.

In the US, you can file an antitrust complaint with the FTC here: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation

...and find your state regulator here: https://www.usa.gov/state-consumer

parker_mountain 2 years ago |

I have honestly given up on Windows. It has extremely strong fundamentals, but they seem determined to mine their users for money instead of investing in a platform. I find what's happening in Apple world to be dire, but at least they have been good stewards of the user. Desktop Linux has its own serious problems as well (there's a reason its at 3%~ market penetration).

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I think Apple for now, keep my usage of Apple services to a reasonable minimum, and keep an eye on what's going on in the Linux world.

yonatan8070 2 years ago | |

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

arcanemachiner 2 years ago | | |

My Linux install does dumb shit (technical term) all the time, but I find it's a small price to pay for software that doesn't hate me.

Case in point: I just upgraded to the newish Xubuntu 23.04 the other day, and now my default sound output device changes (to the wrong one) every time I come out of sleep mode.

A small price to pay.

carlosjobim 2 years ago | | |

Used a Linux machine for a while when my Mac was being repaired. It's not enough for professional use, unless you're a programmer or sysadmin.

- I couldn't find a good enough e-mail client, so did what every Linux user I know do and used webmail. That means you lose speed and features.

- Dual screen support for different DPI is non-existent in most distros, and has to be hacked with xrandr scripts to work in other distros.

- Audio or Bluetooth not working

- Very messy to install software. The native "App Store" wouldn't work or connect, so had to resort to shell commands.

- Lack of suitable productivity software (which you mentioned).

As long as nobody wants to offer a complete Linux solution with hardware, operating system and productivity software, then it will continue to be like this. That's the problem with OSS, everybody wants to blame each other and nobody wants to take responsibility and deliver a complete experience to users.

tempaccount1234 2 years ago | | |

Driver support. For example on Ubuntu I can’t use touch gestures on my touch screen and can’t assign all keyboard keys. Ok, not everyone uses a Japanese laptop with a European windows, but that works pretty well…

esperent 2 years ago |

Yes, it's obnoxious. And so are the nonstop popups telling you to use Chrome that Google shows you if you're using Edge on Maps, YouTube, Gmail, Search etc.

Both of these companies should be slapped hard for doing this.

xg15 2 years ago | |

"fun" side effect of that: even if you wanted, you can't actually get rid of the nag screens: even if you did everything e.g. Microsoft wanted from you, then Google will keep nagging you to revert the settings back to the opposite - and vice versa.

Users are basically in the middle of a conflict between MS and Google, with no options to get out of it (except stop using their products).

thesuperbigfrog 2 years ago |

It is doing what it was programmed to do:

https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57

Sadly, this kind of user-hostile behavior is increasingly common and a form of enshitification (see https://doctorow.medium.com/tiktoks-enshittification-bb3f5df...) of the operating system.

naikrovek 2 years ago |

is it a dark pattern if it clearly asks you to do something, and doesn't lie or deceive you about what it's going to do if you accept or decline?

(no, it isn't a dark pattern if it isn't lying or tricking you into making a decision you would not make otherwise. this particular behavior isn't defensible behavior, and it isn't an example of a dark pattern, either.)

is this how languages evolve so fast? people using words and terms without understanding them in full view of people who don't know the term, who then learn the incorrect definition?

cutler 2 years ago |

Welcome to the year 2000.

deafpolygon 2 years ago |

> Windows 11 gave me an unsolicited toaster popup, with the default action being to change Chrome's default search engine to Bing

Not doubting you, but as a W11 home user for a while- I haven't seen this myself.

> This is an atrocious dark pattern and a huge overreach for an operating system

It's not a dark pattern. It's definitely an annoying thing - how is this different from Apple reminding you to set-up Apple Pay?

circuit10 2 years ago | |

Because it’s something you probably don’t want to do and they’re making it easy to do by accident

lolc 2 years ago | |

Calling it a dark pattern may be a stretch. But does the nag to set up Apple Pay directly change preferences to their product over a competitor's? Or is it added as an option?

hosteur 2 years ago | |

> how is this different from Apple reminding you to set-up Apple Pay?

Thats an absolute dark pattern too.