The [Kinesis Freestyle Edge](https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/edge/) is what you want. It's a full keyboard, with extra keys you can map, and you can choose what switch you want. It's marketed for gamers, but it's good for everyone.

My one complaint is I find the space bar too large. I started used the Freestyle after decades of MS Natural keyboards. It took a while to get used to the size of the space bar.

> I want more keys. I want my dedicated f-keys back...

This is my issue as well. I want a "normal" keyboard, only ergonomic, split, with all the fancy joint happiness that brings.

It seems these are impossible to find without some kind of 3d printing and DIY from scratch.

I am not able to invest in learning a new keyboarding process because I have to work on too many different computers over a year span that I have no control over, and I don't want my muscle memory to erode because of one special keyboard on my home workstation.

Yes! Really want a good 80% keyboard (basically a standard keyboard with the number pad chopped off) with some added thumb keys, but everything else mostly positioned where you expect. QMK for configuring.

I'm a long time user of the Microsoft Ergonomic Natural 4000 but they are hard to find now. Don't like the MS Sculpt that much - spongy escape key and those flat keys in general. I've got one in a drawer as a backup for when the 4000 dies, but I'm not looking forward to it.

I recently got a Keyboardio 100[1] but am really finding it hard to adapt to. Moving things like many symbol keys (e.g. "[]\{}|/+=-_") to different locations or layers is a real pain for programming. I really don't know if I'll persist. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful keyboard, but requires too much adaptation for me.

The closest potential I've found is the X-Bows Knight[2] although the cost of getting one out to the Antipodes makes it a risky proposition if I end up not coping with it.

[1] https://shop.keyboard.io/products/model-100 [2] https://x-bows.com/products/x-bows-knight-ergonomic-mechanic...

I made a low-profile split keyboard (with Bluetooth) based on the Moonlander layout, but a bit more ergonomic for my fingers: https://github.com/tadfisher/nyx-kb

I think this number of keys in this layout strikes a good balance between portability and usability.

You might like the Matias Ergo Pro. It is the most comfortable keyboard I've ever typed on, and I've owned literally dozens of mechanical, ergonomic, split, and specialty keyboards. It has all the function keys, and it has these terrific large modifier keys in front. I'm a heavy VIM user, but I still appreciate the terrific arrow cluster on that keyboard. And they've got an additional Ctrl key next to N - I love it.

Just be aware that the build quality is terrible. I had two Matias keyboards, neither lasted a year... And I type lightly, preferring 35 gram keys. At $250 each it is quite the investment. But, honestly, they are worth the price. They are _that_ comfortable.

Sounds like you want something like the Dygma Defy. It has (I think) 8 thumb keys in addition to the standard keyboard array. It's ortholinear, which I find way more sensible.

Hey we’ll be releasing an open source keyboard that has an ergonomic layout and is about 75-80% size (arrows + F-row and macro row)

> Only two thumb keys seems like it could be a pain.

Depending on the context (mostly in games), I sometimes hit "B" with a thumb on my Ergodox. I think holding B/V for layer toggles could work on this board?

The UHK (ultimate hacking keyboard) comes pretty close. I can vouch for its high quality, and it's about as portable as you can get for that many keys without switching to a slim profile like in the OP

$365 does seem pretty steep.

But budget options pretty much demand a variety of skills.

DIY boards require soldering, and flashing firmware to the microcontrollers. If a mistake is made when soldering, this can be very difficult to diagnose, and harder to fix. -- Paying someone else to solder is sometimes an option, but can be expensive, too.

Even with cheap boards from e.g. AliExpress, you still might have to be familiar with flashing firmware.

For someone with more time than money, DIY is a good option.

With ZSA, I feel I can at least recommend a reputable brand; I'm not sure I can recommend DIY assembly to most people.

I considered the price as well. I do love open source designs more than I love the design of the ZSA Voyager (it has too few thumb keys), but in terms of price, it might actually be fair. Milled steel cases for a Corne or Lily58 are only available via group buys that charge $300-400, and they don't come with either keycaps or switches. I believe it's realistic that you could pay the same amount or more for an alternative.

I want keyboard pants as well. I saw one company having them in the pipeline recently (forgot which) but indeed not wireless which is not great as for things like Vr/ar plugging in will need an extra hub.

"Things you build yourself" aren't really in competition with pre-built things for most people. Also, that Dilemma costs over $200 for an RGB PCB plus case. Add brand-name switches and keycaps, and you're not far off the price of this, and also you had to do the assembly yourself.

I don't think they will or at least not with QMK running in the background. They would need to switch to ZMK first in my opinion.

See this comment chain: https://old.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/s95y98/is_bluetooth_w...

I think retaining the number row and the outer pinky column makes it more accessible; but I find it odd the design then also removes the lower row of modifier keys, and only gives two thumb keys each.

It's good to use the thumbs more than the pinky fingers. -- But, I'd think an introductory keyboard would retain modifier keys for the pinky fingers to use.

What's the difference between the Planck EZ and the myriad of other Plancks out there? I have two OLKB Plancks (one is the massdrop version the other is the EOTW variant), and they are both pretty nice Plancks.

I made this a while back to fill that exact need: https://github.com/tadfisher/nyx-kb

on the keyboardio, how do you accurately hit the right thumb key ? the four thumb keys all have the same shape. I see a high risk of getting them confused.

I really want to, but it needs to be very cheap to go through the effort of making it yourself.

A very easy 'snap together' like keyboard bought in different components should at least knock the price down to ~$100

I have a raise, the build quality is definitely top notch. But their software/firmware is very underwhelming if you want to do anything besides basic key remapping and basic layers.

I just ended up giving up on trying to use their stuff, and opted for software based remapping instead

...which starts at $399, so it's a preference at that point...

Its this one :)

https://www.amazon.com/ElfAnt-Laptop-Adjustable-Portable-Alu...

These small keyboards trade-off the benefit of "bring all the keys within easy reach of the hands" at the cost of a more complicated layout.

The intent is "be able to press F1-F12 without having to move hands so far from home row"; it's not "I want a smaller keyboard and don't need F1-F12".

What on earth are you talking about?

Of course it has F1-12, it's just in a better place. It's completely programmable, so you can choose something that makes sense to you.

I thought this was going to be a barrier for me as well, but after using a Moonlander (one of ZSA's other keyboards) for over a year now, it's not as bad. I have a layer that has F1-10 in place of 1-0, then F11 and F12 are on overflow keys.

I've found that the hotkeys I most frequently use I moved in to more convenient hotkeys/macros (for example code folding/unfolding to three common levels, debugger stepping), while others just stayed where they were.

I would say that you'd probably want to try a larger keyboard than the Voyager though if that's a concern though. I'm reticent to try such a smaller keyboard, and I found the ~70 keys of the Moonlander to be more inline with what I like.

Modifier key plus the number row gets you that trivially, and it's no different from having to hit Fn + F-key on a laptop. But even better is that if there are things you use regularly, you can map them up to a more convenient place.

Same I use them constantly, but just set one of your thumb keys to shift to your functions row. You can map all the way up to F24 then! and have any other IDE specific commands in that layer as well.

I use F all over the place in VS-code and have them all mapped on my dygma raise.

I agree. On my ergodox, the top row was f1-f12, and I had a virtual numpad on a layer.

I recently got a Keyboardio 100 but am really finding it hard to adapt to, in large part because too many symbol keys are moved around, making it a pain for programming in particular.

More details on this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37398872

Nice. Python programmers now want to move semi to the shift state (and colon without) for a while as well. ;-)

I love my ergodox ez. I got the moon lander, and it looks cool but I do not like it. Niether does my friend. The tenting tilts the thumb away which makes it uncomfortable. I wish I just got another ergodox ez (eventually I did).

The latest Ergodox model now has USB-C.

steep learning curve if you've never used a split\ortho board but once you learn how to type again (couple of weeks for me), other than that my wrist pain is now gone! only real downside is people asking why I have a pair of glowing oven gloves on my desk

I have one. Personally, I prefer the Kinesis Advantage2 when it comes to plain typing, because I find dipping my hands into a well of keys is more a little comfortable than tenting them. The Moonlander has better software, aesthetics, and is more compact (which would be useful for someone else, but not me). The main reason I got it, though is that it supports GeminiPR, which makes it suitable for stenography.

Ortholinear split takes a while to get used to but you really never want to go back to a regular keyboard after you get used to it - it makes you feel like you've been breaking your wrists.

Two years or so in, I'm hooked. I've already decided that if I return to office I'll need one for each location (not interested in carrying one back and forth).

I've used an "ergonomic" "split layout" keyboard for years. Specifically, I used the MSFT Natural 4000 since about 2010 due to RSI and typing-related pain. Even with that keyboard, I still had pinky/ring-finger related RSI from modifier keys (shift/ctrl/esc), but it was rather minimal if I was careful and kept my "off-hours" related typing minimal.

I picked up the Moonlander after looking at multiple truly-split keyboards including the Ergodox, Nyquist, Kinesis Advantage 2 (and later 360). I've used a Via/QMK keyboard as well and I will say that Oryx and the Configurator seem much more user-friendly and featureful.

The auto-shift feature is great, as I rarely need to use the shift key for normal typing. Having a toggle key to quickly disable it for things like gaming or the odd application that doesn't detect keydown/up for shifted keys as expected (or perhaps it's on the kbd firmware side and isn't sending a held-down shifted key, who knows) is rather useful.

Layers are your friend and don't be worried about printing out a layer map while you're learning. And don't be afraid to change your layout to try something.

I changed my layout multiple times a day for the first two or so weeks, maybe once a day for another two weeks, then perhaps once a week to once a month over the next few months. I think I last changed my layout 6 months ago to add a new shortcut for a feature added to my IDE.

If you're already accustomed to a split keyboard, expect minimal growing pains beyond learning your layer keys and such. But if it's your first time using a split KB, then you'll have that adjustment too. MSFT used to have a sculpted kb that wasn't a full split and that was a good "training wheels" kb for a split, but I don't think they make that board anymore. Basically, if you don't alrady use a split, expect to reach for keys on the other side a bit until your brain adjusts.

I also suggest using background colors in your layers to indicate hotkeys and such. It started as a crutch for me, but I've come to really like it as it serves as a bit of a reminder for those less-used shortcuts.

The ability to hot-swap your key switches and caps is great. I ended up with a highly tactile switch that isn't much louder than the usual "cherry MX browns", but that is entirely optional. The out of the box keys are perfectly fine for those not interested in that feature.

H: "Honey, I bought a new $370 keyboard."

W: "Another one?! You already have one for the house and one for the office... Where is this one going to go?"

Doesn't have to be budget micromanagement.

Going over expenses together with your partner is important. If you don't have a partner, then you can spend money on whatever you want; you're only going to impact yourself.

> I switch backlight colors based on layout.

Same. I use Dvorak as my primary layer, as well as blank keycaps, and have a QWERTY gaming layer that has LEDs outlining the standard gaming keys (WASD, crouch, etc).

maybe cultural context would make more sense. I mean I was always into things like punk and more dark aesthetics, so maybe it just doesn't make sense to me personally but would make sense for someone who as different contexts.

Then disable it. It's a preference option that can be used to express yourself or even indicate things in your layer configuration.

I switch backlight colors based on layout. The default typing layer is in my favorite shade of blue, then when I'm on my "ide shortcut/F-key layer" then it switches to a complementary share of orange. When I'm on my "common shortcuts/media control" layer it switches to purple for valid shortcut keys while the media keys have their own color layout to more quickly indicate where back/fwd/play/mute is.

No one says you have to use unicorn vomit colors or a constantly shifting color pattern. But it does look good in a demo and does a great job of indicating that it's not a solid color.

Literally none of what you said is true.

I have a key that toggles between keyboard layers, of which there are three. Different layers are assigned different colors. If I forget which layer I'm on then I can just glance at the keyboard and know. The LEDs are similar in purpose to a Caps Lock indicator.

And for the third layer, which has only a dozen or so keys defined, the keys that are defined are lit up in their own color. This layer sees less use than the first two, so it is helpful guidance to remember which are defined.

I have criticisms about the keyboard -- Moonlander -- but none are about the LEDs. The LEDs are useful and not simply moronic eye-candy as you seem to imply.

I don't mind them in devices like this, where the configuration is built into the device firmware. Where I found it incredibly frustrating was with the Razer laptops, where the rainbow stream would run constantly until the Synapse software finally launched and it switched to your preferred configuration. I wish default on some of these devices was just basic white or off to keep from running into issues.